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STRAWPOLL: Should main faction names be changed from their race to their respective nation?

2

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  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,737Registered Users
    mahboi1 said:

    IMO When multiple factions within the same race are playable, one specific faction really can't be held up as a representative of the entire race. It would be like a 40k game in which the Ultramarines are just called "Space Marines" as if they're literally all of the space marines, despite there being more playable chapters.

    But would you call the Imperium of Man anything but Imperium of Man? Would you just call it Holy Terra?

  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    Sindriss said:

    There is definitely room for improvement over the current mess. It's absurd having armies like Dwarves and Clan Angrund existing in the same campaign. Are Clan Angrund not Dwarves? They should keep the original names but just as cultures on the selection menu. People saying it's for noobs is a poor excuse. It's perfectly ok to be unfamiliar with an army. That's what the introductions are for and theres a description of the faction when you click on them. It's not like those completely new to Warhammer are going to know the difference between Empire and Brettonia and it's not like that's a big problem.

    Are we really just going to drag this on again? :P

    One could argue that the Dwarfs are led by Thorgrim (Doesn't matter what LL you pick, he remains FL). He isn't a King of a certain clan, he is THE King (Described as the ultimate ruler of the Dwarfs). Likwise, Clan Angrund are a specific clan with a specific objective in mind.

    But this all ignores the obvious: It isn't a pressing issue. Sure, they could change it, but then, mods already offer that option. So why would CA even bother?


  • petertel123petertel123 Junior Member Posts: 752Registered Users
    With some factions it makes sense (the greenskins for example, are but one of many tribes), but with others less so (as someone pointed out, Franz is the emperor of all the provinces, not just Reikland). Perhaps they can start with their regional/tribe name, and change into the race name after confederating? Rome 2 had a similar system IIRC
    Team Bretonnia
    Team Dark Elves
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Posts: 2,829Registered Users
    Why not have to "earn" the title empire dwarves/greenskins etc?
  • SindrissSindriss Posts: 417Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    Nemox said:

    Sindriss said:

    There is definitely room for improvement over the current mess. It's absurd having armies like Dwarves and Clan Angrund existing in the same campaign. Are Clan Angrund not Dwarves? They should keep the original names but just as cultures on the selection menu. People saying it's for noobs is a poor excuse. It's perfectly ok to be unfamiliar with an army. That's what the introductions are for and theres a description of the faction when you click on them. It's not like those completely new to Warhammer are going to know the difference between Empire and Brettonia and it's not like that's a big problem.

    Are we really just going to drag this on again? :P

    One could argue that the Dwarfs are led by Thorgrim (Doesn't matter what LL you pick, he remains FL). He isn't a King of a certain clan, he is THE King (Described as the ultimate ruler of the Dwarfs). Likwise, Clan Angrund are a specific clan with a specific objective in mind.

    But this all ignores the obvious: It isn't a pressing issue. Sure, they could change it, but then, mods already offer that option. So why would CA even bother?


    Yeah we are going to "drag this on again" because your opinion is not the only one that matters. It's nice you are happy with the current naming conventions but there are other people who disagree.

    'Because the way it is now is absurdly stupid and makes no sense. Sure mods can fix it but most mods tend to include unwanted changes, so unless everyone learns to mod it's not a solution. The culture system worked wonderful in Atilla and it would be the perfect solution.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    Sindriss said:

    Nemox said:

    Sindriss said:

    There is definitely room for improvement over the current mess. It's absurd having armies like Dwarves and Clan Angrund existing in the same campaign. Are Clan Angrund not Dwarves? They should keep the original names but just as cultures on the selection menu. People saying it's for noobs is a poor excuse. It's perfectly ok to be unfamiliar with an army. That's what the introductions are for and theres a description of the faction when you click on them. It's not like those completely new to Warhammer are going to know the difference between Empire and Brettonia and it's not like that's a big problem.

    Are we really just going to drag this on again? :P

    One could argue that the Dwarfs are led by Thorgrim (Doesn't matter what LL you pick, he remains FL). He isn't a King of a certain clan, he is THE King (Described as the ultimate ruler of the Dwarfs). Likwise, Clan Angrund are a specific clan with a specific objective in mind.

    But this all ignores the obvious: It isn't a pressing issue. Sure, they could change it, but then, mods already offer that option. So why would CA even bother?


    Yeah we are going to "drag this on again" because your opinion is not the only one that matters. It's nice you are happy with the current naming conventions but there are other people who disagree.

    'Because the way it is now is absurdly stupid and makes no sense. Sure mods can fix it but most mods tend to include unwanted changes, so unless everyone learns to mod it's not a solution. The culture system worked wonderful in Atilla and it would be the perfect solution.
    Changing names is not hard, even so, there are naming mods out there. You can even ask the Modders themselves for help. Many are very friendly and willing to work with you. If you want an Orc only one, bam, you'd likely get it.

    The only one that has any merit for change is the Dwarfs, even then it could be argued for simplicity sake and the fact that the objective of said race is to unite all the clans. But, tell me why Greenskins, Empire or Vampire Counts are 'absurdly stupid' considering that:

    Greenskins represent Grimgor's Waaagh! An egotistical warlord who sees himself as Gork & Morks chosen.

    Vampire Counts - Mannfred is one of the big 3 Vampire Counts. Currently ruling Drakenhof, the seat of the Vampire Counts of Sylvania. I don't see what is so stupid about that.

    The Empire - Yes, the Emperor typically commands his own state, working alongside the Electors who rule theirs. That is the way it has always been. But Karl is not the Emperor of Reikland. This faction name makes absolute sense.

    The most ideal solution by CA would be adding a name that could change for certain factions. The empire would always be the Empire, but you could have Karaz Ankor reformed or whatever for the lovable Dawi. However, it is obvious that CA chose the simple solution and in all honesty... it isn't even that bad.

    Of all the immersion-breaking issues in the game

    This one is minor.

  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Posts: 1,858Registered Users
    Must say, I think this is an issue caused by game design but in my opinion it should definitely be changed. Would much prefer each faction to be a separate entity and named more appropriately.
  • ShermanSherman Member Posts: 880Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    However, thinking about it, there is no reason to change the empire name to Reikland without a good mechanic that give justice of what is the empire as whole.

    Actually this is the major lack of the Empire as faction, and personally, talking about campaign mechanics the empire is the most boring one.

    The Government seats alone are nothing special (also is strange to have an empire general as Patriarch instead of Gelt... some major titles should grant the bonus only when you unlock the necessary legendary lord...), this mechanic need a rework... you have the archlector title that you can grant to a general that is not an archlector.

    (talking about nitpicking, why Bretonnians, are listed as "Bretonnian Kingdoms" and not "Bretonnian Duchies"?
  • NazjaxNazjax Posts: 560Registered Users
    On my opinion Broken Tooth is not really adapted for Grimgor faction, better to call them ''Da Immortulz'' if you want to be full lorefriendly. Because Da Immortulz is the name of his best black orcs troops but i see some call of his waaagh ''Grimgor Immortulz'' so... IDK.
  • OrkfaellerOrkfaeller Senior Member Posts: 2,329Registered Users
    Yes - pleeease. It was allready kinda silly when the playable main races were all we had. But when they introduced playable sub-factions the naming conventions of the big eight became nonsensical.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,216Registered Users

    Yes - pleeease. It was allready kinda silly when the playable main races were all we had. But when they introduced playable sub-factions the naming conventions of the big eight became nonsensical.

    It makes loads of sense. Just none you want to accept.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Posts: 16,243Registered Users
    Sindriss said:


    'Because the way it is now is absurdly stupid and makes no sense. Sure mods can fix it but most mods tend to include unwanted changes, so unless everyone learns to mod it's not a solution. The culture system worked wonderful in Atilla and it would be the perfect solution.

    There are mods that do this and only this. You're just looking at the wrong mods...and far too few of them.

    We're not saying you should make one; we're saying there already is one. In fact there are several redundant mods. The "but they tend to have other things" is neither correct nor even a reasonable assessment of mods in general. So not only are your facts wrong, but also your perspective.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • PhilBowlesPhilBowles Senior Member Posts: 1,237Registered Users
    I think Empire should be changed to Reikland because of the way the faction is implemented in the game, and changed to Empire following confederation with another Empire Province faction (on a related note, if Empire Secessionists survive the destruction of the Empire faction - once founded - they should become Empire).

    I don't think it's especially helpful for any other faction (and not possible for Vampire Counts, as von Carstein already exists as a separate faction).
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    edited July 2017

    I think Empire should be changed to Reikland because of the way the faction is implemented in the game, and changed to Empire following confederation with another Empire Province faction (on a related note, if Empire Secessionists survive the destruction of the Empire faction - once founded - they should become Empire).

    I don't think it's especially helpful for any other faction (and not possible for Vampire Counts, as von Carstein already exists as a separate faction).

    It shouldn't because it is how the Empire works in the lore. The States always have ran themselves separate from the Emperor. They just have to obey him if he comes knocking - which is sparely done since every State maintains a force loyal to the Count first.

    The Emperor still commands the 'empire' but he does not have absolute authority. Since Karl Franz is freshly crowned, he has to prove himself. It is more akin to Magnus the Pious going around and forming the Empire into a single-minded force to drive Chaos back. After the crisis is averted, Franz would return to directly rule Reikland whilst ensuring the Empires overall prosperity through laws... and his personal champion threatening to duel any arrogant nobles.

    Still, to call it Reikland would be wrong. We know the province is that - but Karl Franz has the authority of Emperor. It is why Boris is so butthurt.

    Even from a game play perspective - the confederation imposes penalties for a reason. How other states view being directly controlled by Franz is bad.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 3,042Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    Get the mod titled renames - deeper faction names (long version).

    The only suggestion I have for this mod is that wurzzag's tribe is actually the bone nose tribe.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 13,478Registered Users, Moderators
    Mods are the solution. And a really easy one too.
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  • PhilBowlesPhilBowles Senior Member Posts: 1,237Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    Nemox said:

    I think Empire should be changed to Reikland because of the way the faction is implemented in the game, and changed to Empire following confederation with another Empire Province faction (on a related note, if Empire Secessionists survive the destruction of the Empire faction - once founded - they should become Empire).

    I don't think it's especially helpful for any other faction (and not possible for Vampire Counts, as von Carstein already exists as a separate faction).

    It shouldn't because it is how the Empire works in the lore. The States always have ran themselves separate from the Emperor. They just have to obey him if he comes knocking - which is sparely done since every State maintains a force loyal to the Count first.

    The Emperor still commands the 'empire' but he does not have absolute authority. Since Karl Franz is freshly crowned, he has to prove himself. It is more akin to Magnus the Pious going around and forming the Empire into a single-minded force to drive Chaos back. After the crisis is averted, Franz would return to directly rule Reikland whilst ensuring the Empires overall prosperity through laws... and his personal champion threatening to duel any arrogant nobles.

    Still, to call it Reikland would be wrong. We know the province is that - but Karl Franz has the authority of Emperor. It is why Boris is so butthurt.

    Even from a game play perspective - the confederation imposes penalties for a reason. How other states view being directly controlled by Franz is bad.
    [/quote]

    In lore terms the other provinces would be treated either as vassals or in an initial state of military alliance, but that doesn't happen in the game. Given that the entire Empire campaign reflects nothing that actually happened in lore (Franz was elected long before the events of the End Times and before several of the other characters emerged, and wasn't faced with secessionists, while Todbringer was always a staunch ally) it can hardly be considered true to the lore.

  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    I think Empire should be changed to Reikland because of the way the faction is implemented in the game, and changed to Empire following confederation with another Empire Province faction (on a related note, if Empire Secessionists survive the destruction of the Empire faction - once founded - they should become Empire).

    I don't think it's especially helpful for any other faction (and not possible for Vampire Counts, as von Carstein already exists as a separate faction).

    It shouldn't because it is how the Empire works in the lore. The States always have ran themselves separate from the Emperor. They just have to obey him if he comes knocking - which is sparely done since every State maintains a force loyal to the Count first.

    The Emperor still commands the 'empire' but he does not have absolute authority. Since Karl Franz is freshly crowned, he has to prove himself. It is more akin to Magnus the Pious going around and forming the Empire into a single-minded force to drive Chaos back. After the crisis is averted, Franz would return to directly rule Reikland whilst ensuring the Empires overall prosperity through laws... and his personal champion threatening to duel any arrogant nobles.

    Still, to call it Reikland would be wrong. We know the province is that - but Karl Franz has the authority of Emperor. It is why Boris is so butthurt.

    Even from a game play perspective - the confederation imposes penalties for a reason. How other states view being directly controlled by Franz is bad.
    [/quote]

    In lore terms the other provinces would be treated either as vassals or in an initial state of military alliance, but that doesn't happen in the game. Given that the entire Empire campaign reflects nothing that actually happened in lore (Franz was elected long before the events of the End Times and before several of the other characters emerged, and wasn't faced with secessionists, while Todbringer was always a staunch ally) it can hardly be considered true to the lore.

    Few things, since it is a total war game - it would be boring to start with the Empire united.

    Secondly, this isn't End Times (CA have stated it won't be happening), so it can be 2502 - the year he was elected. (I honestly can't even remember if Warhammer Total War even mentions an actual date? If someone knows please say).

    Karl Franz Reikland Runefang quest literally covers his first tour of action as Emperor in the lore: By aiding against Norsca attacks to prove his worth.

    Boris originally was a bit more butthurt over the whole losing Emperor thing, but he is a stubborn dog and very easy to avoid war with anyway. (I'd certainly agree if he did start at war)

    Anywho, the Empire is similar to the Holy Roman Empire. There is always going to be politicking and backstabbing. As it is a Total War game - a lot of war.

    This still doesn't change the fact that Karl Franz is Emperor of the Empire. Calling him the Emperor of Reikland would be wrong. He is the Count of Reikland and Prince of Altdorf. Few other titles if you really want to throw them in.

    Now I know the Empire could really do with a shake-up with its mechanics. It certainly feels very simple. But I disagree changing the name will somehow make it more immersive.
  • mahboi1mahboi1 Member Posts: 773Registered Users

    mahboi1 said:

    IMO When multiple factions within the same race are playable, one specific faction really can't be held up as a representative of the entire race. It would be like a 40k game in which the Ultramarines are just called "Space Marines" as if they're literally all of the space marines, despite there being more playable chapters.

    But would you call the Imperium of Man anything but Imperium of Man? Would you just call it Holy Terra?
    Difference is the Imperium is a single entity. The space marines, and every WHFB race are not.
    Sigmar wills it!
  • UrgatUrgat Posts: 994Registered Users
    Nemox said:


    Secondly, this isn't End Times (CA have stated it won't be happening), so it can be 2502

    It's its own timeline. It's Not ET, but it's certainly not vanilla 2502 either. There's no time period where you simultaneously have Karl Franz, Vlad and Azhag at the same time in Warhammer.
  • Anubis258Anubis258 Posts: 106Registered Users
    2 Obviously, there's no reason it should have every been that way. Always seemed like a lazy thing by CA.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,737Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    mahboi1 said:

    mahboi1 said:

    IMO When multiple factions within the same race are playable, one specific faction really can't be held up as a representative of the entire race. It would be like a 40k game in which the Ultramarines are just called "Space Marines" as if they're literally all of the space marines, despite there being more playable chapters.

    But would you call the Imperium of Man anything but Imperium of Man? Would you just call it Holy Terra?
    Difference is the Imperium is a single entity. The space marines, and every WHFB race are not.
    Single entity? Somebody forgot to tell all the institutions and planetary governors who seem to have forgotten that part. If anything the IoM is even more dysfunctional than the WHFB one.
    Anubis258 said:

    2 Obviously, there's no reason it should have every been that way. Always seemed like a lazy thing by CA.

    Explain how it is "lazy".

  • OrkfaellerOrkfaeller Senior Member Posts: 2,329Registered Users

    Yes - pleeease. It was allready kinda silly when the playable main races were all we had. But when they introduced playable sub-factions the naming conventions of the big eight became nonsensical.

    It makes loads of sense. Just none you want to accept.
    I would love to hear why it makes sense that we got 'The Bloody Handz' and 'The Crooked Moon' and then a faction called 'Green Skins'.

    But then again, you don't actually seem interessted in making any arguments here and just leash out at people.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users

    Yes - pleeease. It was allready kinda silly when the playable main races were all we had. But when they introduced playable sub-factions the naming conventions of the big eight became nonsensical.

    It makes loads of sense. Just none you want to accept.
    I would love to hear why it makes sense that we got 'The Bloody Handz' and 'The Crooked Moon' and then a faction called 'Green Skins'.

    But then again, you don't actually seem interessted in making any arguments here and just leash out at people.
    The same can be said by those claiming it is absolutely stupid or lazy.

    Grimgor is an egotistical warlord aiming to lead THE biggest Waaagh! He is the chosen of Gork & Mork. He even sends Wuurzag to the Bloody Handz. Crooked moon is a DLC faction focusing on the race to K8P and is uniquely Goblin until you succeed.

    But this still doesn't change the fact that people will always have preferences for names - and there are mods out there for that.

    So why is it lazy for CA to change something not even that stupid, but apparently too much trouble for any of you?
  • mahboi1mahboi1 Member Posts: 773Registered Users

    mahboi1 said:

    mahboi1 said:

    IMO When multiple factions within the same race are playable, one specific faction really can't be held up as a representative of the entire race. It would be like a 40k game in which the Ultramarines are just called "Space Marines" as if they're literally all of the space marines, despite there being more playable chapters.

    But would you call the Imperium of Man anything but Imperium of Man? Would you just call it Holy Terra?
    Difference is the Imperium is a single entity. The space marines, and every WHFB race are not.
    Single entity? Somebody forgot to tell all the institutions and planetary governors who seem to have forgotten that part. If anything the IoM is even more dysfunctional than the WHFB one.
    In terms of direct governance the EOM Rules all the Imperium.
    Karl Franz, despite being emperor is only the elector of Riekland. He has no claim to even an inch of Imperial territory in any other province, and even if he did the logistics for governing that much territory with a single government simply don't exist.

    Sigmar wills it!
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    mahboi1 said:

    mahboi1 said:

    mahboi1 said:

    IMO When multiple factions within the same race are playable, one specific faction really can't be held up as a representative of the entire race. It would be like a 40k game in which the Ultramarines are just called "Space Marines" as if they're literally all of the space marines, despite there being more playable chapters.

    But would you call the Imperium of Man anything but Imperium of Man? Would you just call it Holy Terra?
    Difference is the Imperium is a single entity. The space marines, and every WHFB race are not.
    Single entity? Somebody forgot to tell all the institutions and planetary governors who seem to have forgotten that part. If anything the IoM is even more dysfunctional than the WHFB one.
    In terms of direct governance the EOM Rules all the Imperium.
    Karl Franz, despite being emperor is only the elector of Riekland. He has no claim to even an inch of Imperial territory in any other province, and even if he did the logistics for governing that much territory with a single government simply don't exist.

    I'm not sure why mentioning the Imperium is relevant here. 40k and fantasy differ a great deal... but I have to point out that the Imperium is ruled by the High Lords of Terra - not the Emperor. He is busy being nearly dead and all.

    The laws made are then overseen by the Administratum, to which then is governed by the Planetary Governors. Depending on what worlds they govern. Mechanicum worlds also obey their own authority. We haven't even touched on the Ecclesiarchy...

    The Imperium is a million worlds. There is no direct control of it whatsoever. This is a recurring issue where the Imperiums bureaucracy hinders it for centuries or thousands of years.
  • mahboi1mahboi1 Member Posts: 773Registered Users
    Nemox said:

    mahboi1 said:

    mahboi1 said:

    mahboi1 said:

    IMO When multiple factions within the same race are playable, one specific faction really can't be held up as a representative of the entire race. It would be like a 40k game in which the Ultramarines are just called "Space Marines" as if they're literally all of the space marines, despite there being more playable chapters.

    But would you call the Imperium of Man anything but Imperium of Man? Would you just call it Holy Terra?
    Difference is the Imperium is a single entity. The space marines, and every WHFB race are not.
    Single entity? Somebody forgot to tell all the institutions and planetary governors who seem to have forgotten that part. If anything the IoM is even more dysfunctional than the WHFB one.
    In terms of direct governance the EOM Rules all the Imperium.
    Karl Franz, despite being emperor is only the elector of Riekland. He has no claim to even an inch of Imperial territory in any other province, and even if he did the logistics for governing that much territory with a single government simply don't exist.

    I'm not sure why mentioning the Imperium is relevant here. 40k and fantasy differ a great deal... but I have to point out that the Imperium is ruled by the High Lords of Terra - not the Emperor. He is busy being nearly dead and all.

    The laws made are then overseen by the Administratum, to which then is governed by the Planetary Governors. Depending on what worlds they govern. Mechanicum worlds also obey their own authority. We haven't even touched on the Ecclesiarchy...

    The Imperium is a million worlds. There is no direct control of it whatsoever. This is a recurring issue where the Imperiums bureaucracy hinders it for centuries or thousands of years.
    Maybe that wasn't the best analogy, my 40K lore is a little rusty, but my point was is that as far as direct governance goes Karl Franz's rights extent only to Riekland. Neither he nor anyone else may legitimately claim any land bequeathed unto the other Elector Counts.
    Sigmar wills it!
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    mahboi1 said:

    Nemox said:

    mahboi1 said:

    mahboi1 said:

    mahboi1 said:

    IMO When multiple factions within the same race are playable, one specific faction really can't be held up as a representative of the entire race. It would be like a 40k game in which the Ultramarines are just called "Space Marines" as if they're literally all of the space marines, despite there being more playable chapters.

    But would you call the Imperium of Man anything but Imperium of Man? Would you just call it Holy Terra?
    Difference is the Imperium is a single entity. The space marines, and every WHFB race are not.
    Single entity? Somebody forgot to tell all the institutions and planetary governors who seem to have forgotten that part. If anything the IoM is even more dysfunctional than the WHFB one.
    In terms of direct governance the EOM Rules all the Imperium.
    Karl Franz, despite being emperor is only the elector of Riekland. He has no claim to even an inch of Imperial territory in any other province, and even if he did the logistics for governing that much territory with a single government simply don't exist.

    I'm not sure why mentioning the Imperium is relevant here. 40k and fantasy differ a great deal... but I have to point out that the Imperium is ruled by the High Lords of Terra - not the Emperor. He is busy being nearly dead and all.

    The laws made are then overseen by the Administratum, to which then is governed by the Planetary Governors. Depending on what worlds they govern. Mechanicum worlds also obey their own authority. We haven't even touched on the Ecclesiarchy...

    The Imperium is a million worlds. There is no direct control of it whatsoever. This is a recurring issue where the Imperiums bureaucracy hinders it for centuries or thousands of years.
    Maybe that wasn't the best analogy, my 40K lore is a little rusty, but my point was is that as far as direct governance goes Karl Franz's rights extent only to Riekland. Neither he nor anyone else may legitimately claim any land bequeathed unto the other Elector Counts.
    Of course. Confederation invokes penalties, which I think does a good job displaying the unusual circumstances in which an Emperor may display dominion over his cousins.

    Still, Karl is Emperor of the Empire. That is his title and his right. He is allowed to wave the unified banner. Remember, Magnus the Pious set that precedence when facing Chaos and ending the Age of the Three Emperors.

    Calling this faction Reikland would be incorrect. Reikland cannot command the other states at all, but the Emperor can, under the right circumstances.

    I should also add that in the event of a Counts death, the Emperor can intercede and maintain control. He does this with Averland when Marius dies with no heirs. The real reason the Emperor doesn't really command the other provinces is to avoid civil war against the considerably strong state forces that exist. Otherwise, the Emperor can invoke law that affects all the Empire. (An Emperor selling Marienburg, for instance - Which was territory rightfully owned by Nordland).
  • PhilBowlesPhilBowles Senior Member Posts: 1,237Registered Users
    Urgat said:

    Nemox said:


    Secondly, this isn't End Times (CA have stated it won't be happening), so it can be 2502

    It's its own timeline. It's Not ET, but it's certainly not vanilla 2502 either. There's no time period where you simultaneously have Karl Franz, Vlad and Azhag at the same time in Warhammer.
    The End Times is literally the name of the third stage of the Chaos attacks, and there are multiple characters abroad who aren't active in 2502. Mannfred von Carstein was resurrected by Felix Jaeger, and Karl Franz is emperor throughout the Gotrek and Felix books - possibly fairly recently elected, as Felix's window tax backstory could have occurred under a prior emperor, but Mannfred's resurrection I think is retold in Vampireslayer (it was originally from a VC army book - the first three full novels being derived from previous short stories), the third Gotrek and Felix novel.

    Helman Ghorst learned necromancy from Mannfred, and this apparently took years - so Mannfred's been active for a while.

    Grimgor wasn't known to be active in 2502, and Azhag certainly wouldn't have been working for him.

    Vlad and Isabella had been dead for 500 years and weren't resurrected until the End Times.

    Baltasar Gelt wouldn't have been the Supreme Patriarch - exactly when he became Supreme Patriarch is unknown, but given that Thyrus Gorman was Supreme Patriarch in earlier editions of WFB before the Gelt character was created - and Franz was emperor at the time - the changeover would have happened after 2502.

    There's nothing I can find recorded in lore about Boris Todbringer resenting Franz's election - this seems to be a CA invention. There were tensions between Franz and Marius Leitdorf at this point, but I suppose it doesn't work as well having Averland as a rival given that it's rather a long way from Reikland.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    So, it is its own timeline... But must follow what happened in the main one (Or End Times)?

    It could be 2502 if CA want it to be by that logic. Storm of Chaos was the third invasion, but is completely retconned. End Times isn't happening. We can have Archaon and it not be that (Like Storm of Chaos...). Hell, CA can do their own take on Nagash's return.

    CA have GW's approval going through this (We know they do run things by them). They can set it 2502 and still have whatever characters return.

    The Timeline has always been messy. Even in TT you built your own stories with it. (You could use Magnus or Karl Franz in 4E and it not be an issue timewise). Total War is just that too.
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