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Wood Elves vs High Elves

cool_ladcool_lad Senior MemberIndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,278
Now that we have a decent idea regarding the stats of High Elf units, I would like to ask your opinions regarding the match up between them and the Wood Elves.

From what I can see, the Wood Elves would lose in a straight up archer duel, though they might be able to run circles around the less mobile High Elves while bringing more archers due to the better versatility of their ranged units allowing them to bring fewer melee units.

What are your opinions?
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Comments

  • lucibuis#6195lucibuis#6195 Registered Users Posts: 7,168
    High elves will slaughter them: armoured, missile defence, better magic, better flyers, better everything pretty much.

    It's sad but let's wait for the release
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • Talmorean#3084Talmorean#3084 Registered Users Posts: 1,487
    edited July 2017
    Depending on the battlefield...

    If WE caught the HE in a forest ambush it'd be curtains for the shineys.

    On an open field of battle, it's the HE for days with superior ranged defense and versatility with air units and the eagle bolt thrower.
  • AJH1987AJH1987 Registered Users Posts: 216
    Probably go Treekin, Dragon and Warhawks. It'd be do-able. Wood Elves should be more versatile and faster. Fixed Glade Riders would help, as well as properly using Wild Riders, which will be faster than any HE Cav. Waywatchers will make nice pin cushions out of Dragon Princes etc.
  • Jam#4399Jam#4399 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,068
    edited July 2017
    They should lurk enemies inside forests and they must be able to shoot accurately even though inside forest unless enemy units are totally blocked by trees....

    That is their only hope from High Elves but they are not dominating in forests...
  • lucibuis#6195lucibuis#6195 Registered Users Posts: 7,168
    AJH1987 said:

    Probably go Treekin, Dragon and Warhawks. It'd be do-able. Wood Elves should be more versatile and faster. Fixed Glade Riders would help, as well as properly using Wild Riders, which will be faster than any HE Cav. Waywatchers will make nice pin cushions out of Dragon Princes etc.

    High elves have better flyers and lots of fire damage .. those units will be destroyed
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • EmarthEmarth Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 401
    Wood Elves stand a good chance. Wild Riders are no joke and Treekin and Treemen would do a good job vs the High Elves. And magic missiles would be the high elf elite infantries worst enemy.
  • epic_159733928507xcYHXtTepic_159733928507xcYHXtT Registered Users Posts: 266
    Sadly, without their campaignbonuses Wood Elves are pretty helpless in general, you do not need High Elves for that task :sadpanda:
  • MerarchesMerarches Registered Users Posts: 470
    edited July 2017
    u froget the monsters on ground. HE dont have anything like treeman and the other wooden infantry.

    and HE dont have the special missile units like WE. like ap,poison and magic.

    vs treeman he only have spearman and phönixguard.

    first one looks like a weaker version of eternal guard and what i see from videos phönixguard is not great to make a lot of dmg, but im sure they are very expensiv. me think HE have a general problem with large units.
    flying monsters are generaly weaker in ttw1 as not flying monster for same price, and HE dont have monster units how are not flying




    HE look realy weak compared with game 1 stats and i think that actuel most factions are stronger.

    BUT i know ith from med. 2 that after the king edtion the units completly reworked in the new campaigns and MP. when im not wrong every old unit get nerfed.

    maybe we see this in warhammer for game 1 units too
  • Aman3712Aman3712 Registered Users Posts: 669
    From my understanding, High Elves are a very defensive faction meant to outlast the enemy with very elite infantry units, great cav, a nice selection of flying monsters and a lot of magic. Wood Elves on the other hand, are very squishy, but are very light-footed and master at ambush and ranged combat, rivaled only by the High Elves and their bow units.

    It'll be a pretty interesting battle!
  • MerarchesMerarches Registered Users Posts: 470
    Aman3712 said:

    From my understanding, High Elves are a very defensive faction meant to outlast the enemy with very elite infantry units, great cav, a nice selection of flying monsters and a lot of magic. Wood Elves on the other hand, are very squishy, but are very light-footed and master at ambush and ranged combat, rivaled only by the High Elves and their bow units.

    It'll be a pretty interesting battle!

    yeah there is why WE can be good vs HE. HE have a lot of flying monsters and archers eat them. and yeah this battles could be very hard and amazing for bith sides.
    but the HE infatnry is not very good at moment ( when we see the actuel stats and compare them with game 1 )
  • lucibuis#6195lucibuis#6195 Registered Users Posts: 7,168
    Who has better archers of the 3 elves factions now?
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • EmarthEmarth Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 401
    I would hazzard a guess that the wood elves will have the best long range damage archers. The high elves will have the best defensive archers and dark elves the best short range archers.
  • Talmorean#3084Talmorean#3084 Registered Users Posts: 1,487
    lucibuis said:

    Who has better archers of the 3 elves factions now?

    Wood Elves arguably have the best archers in the game. For range, damage, and abilities like stalk etc...

    Dark Elves get Armor Piercing quick firing archers.

    High Elves get structured more proper volley type archers. (From the game play it seemed the Lothren Seaguard fired in proper organized volleys instead of fire at will, but I could be over analyzing it.
  • Erathil#3988Erathil#3988 Registered Users Posts: 1,474
    Wood elves will lose almost any straight-up confrontation. Their magic isn't as powerful, their infantry isn't as strong, and their cavalry isn't as powerful.

    That said, if you bring wood elves to a straight-up fight, you're doing it wrong. It'd all come down to maneuverability, with high-damage wood elf archers taking a terrible toll on the high elf infantry while their cavalry and monsters maneuver for supremacy. Wood elves have far superior missile cavalry, and the high elf mechanic suggests that, if you can do enough morale/health damage before things get bogged down, you can vastly reduce their effectiveness. That said, high elf chariots could disrupt wood elf archers before they have a chance to do much.

    I imagine a very hectic battle with units all over the place. Winner's a toss-up, but I'm betting on wood elves, just because they're my favorite.
  • bli-nk#6314bli-nk#6314 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,959
    There are unit combos that either side can win. I think High Elves are more diverse roster so have slightly better odds but if HE go strong air or monsters WE can really hurt them. On the other hand if HE go strong infantry/cavalry and WE go strong infantry/cavalry as well... really close battle and probably whoever uses magic better.

    What WE can't do much about is the HE going air/cav/infantry/monsters... HE has all the tools to get the job done while WE only has 2/3 of the tools in my opinion.
    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.” Mark Twain
  • EmarthEmarth Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 401
    Its not like the WE dont have monsters. Treekin and treemen are pretty damn good. Its HE that dont have any ground monsters.

    Very few people play WE to their strenghts, but go watch some wood elf replays on party elites channel and youll see some great wood elf plays.
  • Valkaar#2507Valkaar#2507 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,784
    I feel like High Elves will have more flexibility and will get to set the terms of engagement. The burden will be on the Wood Elves to react properly.

    That being said, I think it's difficult to get too in depth about balance discussion until we know the cost of the units.
  • GeldorGeldor Registered Users Posts: 1,115
    Looks like quite a toss-up. While HE also have good archers, the WE clearly have an advantage there with all the variety they can bring in: AP, fire, poison, magic damage. They also have stealth and many units which can be forward deployed.

    HE have better flying options, likely better cavalry, a heavy infantry option etc.

    We also do not know most of the HE spells yet. Healing? Control spells like a net?

    Costs is another issue. We have no idea what kind of army a HE can actually bring in MP. How do they price things like the Phoenix Guard and Seaguard?

  • AJH1987AJH1987 Registered Users Posts: 216
    lucibuis said:

    AJH1987 said:

    Probably go Treekin, Dragon and Warhawks. It'd be do-able. Wood Elves should be more versatile and faster. Fixed Glade Riders would help, as well as properly using Wild Riders, which will be faster than any HE Cav. Waywatchers will make nice pin cushions out of Dragon Princes etc.

    High elves have better flyers and lots of fire damage .. those units will be destroyed
    The HE have Great Eagles (the same, but i'd imagine not many HE will bring them), Phoenix & Dragons. They don't have a flying unit, and Pheonix & Dragons will likely be expensive. Also, their flyers are all large targets. If you're bringing WE, you should be shooting them out of the sky.
  • Pray#3234Pray#3234 Registered Users Posts: 1,606
    Wild rider may found the hard time B)
  • Patrikseve#8733Patrikseve#8733 Member Registered Users Posts: 2,129
    edited July 2017
    I would not mind a free for all between Wood Elves, Dark Elves and High Elves 1 vs 1 vs 1 :)
  • Valkaar#2507Valkaar#2507 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,784

    I would not mind a free for all between Wood Elves, Dark Elves and High Elves 1 vs 1 vs 1 :)

    I mean we don't know how the mechanic will work exactly...but I imagine Dark Elves should dominate any FFA depending on how Murderous Prowess gets triggered.

    The way they explained it, it doesn't sound like it matters how a unit dies. Any deaths fill the meter. So Dark Elves should be able to activate their killing spree buff way more often than they would in a 1 vs 1.
  • GeldorGeldor Registered Users Posts: 1,115
    Have they said that DE can get the bonus more than once?
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,278
    I suspect that the High Elves might actually lose the archer duel due to the versatility of glade guard (decent in melee and can therefore be used as melee support in a pinch) allowing the Wood Elves to bring in way more archers, allowing them to win through sheer volume of fire.

    That said, it seems like the Wood Elves will have to keep moving in order to survive due to their general lack of armour.
  • AJH1987AJH1987 Registered Users Posts: 216
    I think the secret would actually be Waywatchers and Scouts rather than Glade Guard themselves, especially as right now the HE have no Shadow Warriors. Wild Riders should squish any pesky Ellyrian Reavers.
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  • seienchinseienchin Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,572

    cool_lad said:

    I suspect that the High Elves might actually lose the archer duel due to the versatility of glade guard (decent in melee and can therefore be used as melee support in a pinch) allowing the Wood Elves to bring in way more archers, allowing them to win through sheer volume of fire.

    That said, it seems like the Wood Elves will have to keep moving in order to survive due to their general lack of armour.

    cool_lad said:

    I suspect that the High Elves might actually lose the archer duel due to the versatility of glade guard (decent in melee and can therefore be used as melee support in a pinch) allowing the Wood Elves to bring in way more archers, allowing them to win through sheer volume of fire.

    That said, it seems like the Wood Elves will have to keep moving in order to survive due to their general lack of armour.

    Wait, why are you accounting for melee in an archer duel?
    He was saying that since they are also useable in melee you can take more of them without having to feat that the enemy finishes you in melee.
  • HelhoundHelhound Registered Users Posts: 5,346
    As far as archer duels go do not forget that welfs can move and fire. Approach from any angle other then head on and you can do the advance and fire with glade guard, pumping out similar damage while evading some counter fire, not even counting poison arrows. All other welf archers dont even need to have a clear advance and fire path they can literally just run circles.

    So long as welf keep moving HE won't win from a distance. And they are at a minimum competitive in the air though doubtful theyd win without archer support. Up close however......

    The trick here would be to stay outta combat as long as possible. Expend every last arrow before welfs risk toeing it with HE and use fast moving infantry or cav, some of which are anti large, to kill off any units trying to chase down the welf archers. Divide and conquer. Then again this is theoretically how every welf fight should go.

    TLDR: HE will win if and only if they can force the fight early. Get plinked too long by the welfs and watch those elites with low health and few models fade away.
  • #902441#902441 Registered Users Posts: 7,489

    I would not mind a free for all between Wood Elves, Dark Elves and High Elves 1 vs 1 vs 1 :)

    I'm looking forward to a 3v3. High Elves led by Tyrion, Dark Elves by Malekith, and Wood Elves by Orion up against three VC armies led by all three Von Carsteins.

    Think that'll be suitably epic. Slow my frame rate down to a crawl, but epic.
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • Patrikseve#8733Patrikseve#8733 Member Registered Users Posts: 2,129
    edited July 2017
    Arsenic said:

    I would not mind a free for all between Wood Elves, Dark Elves and High Elves 1 vs 1 vs 1 :)

    I'm looking forward to a 3v3. High Elves led by Tyrion, Dark Elves by Malekith, and Wood Elves by Orion up against three VC armies led by all three Von Carsteins.

    Think that'll be suitably epic. Slow my frame rate down to a crawl, but epic.
    Indeed could be great tbh. Im waiting to put dwarfs against the high elves Id love to see the matchup even if it risk becoming a very slow one due to both factions affinity for defense. But I think it would be interesting and force some use of anti large units by dwarfs and maybe some magic resistance buffs. :)
    cool_lad said:

    I suspect that the High Elves might actually lose the archer duel due to the versatility of glade guard (decent in melee and can therefore be used as melee support in a pinch) allowing the Wood Elves to bring in way more archers, allowing them to win through sheer volume of fire.

    That said, it seems like the Wood Elves will have to keep moving in order to survive due to their general lack of armour.

    Dark Elves are a very offensive race... High Elves Defensive and Wood Elves a hit and run geurilla esque army. So They would all have to adapt to each other. The problem with the High Elves is that they risk being surrounded and out manouvered. The risk for Dark Elves is the ranged distance never catching the Wood Elves. On the other hand the big problem especially if they use magic is who will they use it on. Dark Elves would be inclined to somehow use magic on wood elves but that leaves them a bit vulnarable if the high elves use magic against them. I think it would be a very great battle especially after they get some new stuff as said by CA. I dont think theres a clear winner by just looking at them but I think the most difficult to win with would likely be wood elves due to how much they play at movement and hit and run and never really engage in line battles the same way the other elven factions will.
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