Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Why CA don't want (aparently) to add Legendary Heroes?.

corvus_codex#4567corvus_codex#4567 Junior MemberSpainRegistered Users Posts: 3,073
edited October 2018 in General Discussion
I've been thinking about this for some time, and now that they've added Krell I can not get out of my head.

Why They have not simply added Krell as a special Wight King?. its the same, (gameplay speaking) but, as in the lore, you can fight toghether, or send him to do orher jobs.

I know that this ins't gonna change, but im thinking in the future of the trilogy, I mean, this migh be a problem, thinks in characters of the second part like Shadowblade, of the Dark elves, or deathmaster snikch, of skaven, they aren't leaders, just special heroes.

Why is CA apparently so against this feature?

Whats are your thoughts? do you like to see legendary heroes?.

Sidenote:
if you know about some legendary hero that you'll love to see, tell me,
im making a list of every faction, I will add it if I see that's is complete enough.


why you flaged this as @Reaper49 ?
image
"I am the harbinger of your demise. I am the nightmare in all mortals. I am the thing you fear the most. I am death..."
—Valkia the Bloody.
Post edited by corvus_codex#4567 on
«1

Comments

  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437
    corvo said:

    I've been thinking about this for some time, and now that they've added Krell I can not get out of my head.

    Why They have not simply added Krell as a special Wight King?. its the same, (gameplay speaking) but, as in the lore, you can fight toghether, or send him to do orher jobs.

    I know that this ins't gonna change, but im thinking in the future of the trilogy, I mean, this migh be a problem, thinks in characters of the second part like Darkblade, of the Dark elves, or deathmaster snikch, of skaven, they aren't leaders, just special heroes.

    Why is CA apparently so against this style?

    Whats are your thoughts? do you like to see legendary heroes?.

    Malus is a leader

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • corvus_codex#4567corvus_codex#4567 Junior Member SpainRegistered Users Posts: 3,073

    corvo said:

    I've been thinking about this for some time, and now that they've added Krell I can not get out of my head.

    Why They have not simply added Krell as a special Wight King?. its the same, (gameplay speaking) but, as in the lore, you can fight toghether, or send him to do orher jobs.

    I know that this ins't gonna change, but im thinking in the future of the trilogy, I mean, this migh be a problem, thinks in characters of the second part like Darkblade, of the Dark elves, or deathmaster snikch, of skaven, they aren't leaders, just special heroes.

    Why is CA apparently so against this style?

    Whats are your thoughts? do you like to see legendary heroes?.

    Malus is a leader
    sorry i mean Shadowblade,
    I've confused myself, I've already fixed it.
    image
    "I am the harbinger of your demise. I am the nightmare in all mortals. I am the thing you fear the most. I am death..."
    —Valkia the Bloody.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member ArkansasRegistered Users Posts: 7,166
    I would really love to see Legendary Heroes that unlock like equipment. Krell would have made an amazing unlock for Kemmler if you start with him. Just like how if you don't choose Gelt you don't get his bonus to armor when you finally unlock him.
  • Commissar_G#7535Commissar_G#7535 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 15,864
    I believe because they're worried about them turning into unkillable super agents on the campaign map. But I'd just have them unable to do aggressive actions.
    MarcusLivius: You are indeed a lord of entitlement.
  • r_collins36r_collins36 Registered Users Posts: 913
    I don't know. Generic heros can already become so powerful. So then legendary heros have to be even stronger than heros which could create problems with Lords and LL.

    Maybe if every race got only 1 it wouldn't affect much either way.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member ArkansasRegistered Users Posts: 7,166

    I believe because they're worried about them turning into unkillable super agents on the campaign map. But I'd just have them unable to do aggressive actions.

    I would be fine with that, especially since Krell and other LH's like the Green Knight don't seem too much like the sneaky-stabby kind.
  • corvus_codex#4567corvus_codex#4567 Junior Member SpainRegistered Users Posts: 3,073
    edited July 2017
    MrJade said:

    I would really love to see Legendary Heroes that unlock like equipment. Krell would have made an amazing unlock for Kemmler if you start with him. Just like how if you don't choose Gelt you don't get his bonus to armor when you finally unlock him.

    yeah, exactly, imagine to reach certain level that unlock The recruiment of Krell Hero, or some tech, for example... "Clan Eshin conections" for unloking the recruiment of Deathmaster Snikch.

    there are tons of characters in the TT with the "not leader" rule
    image
    "I am the harbinger of your demise. I am the nightmare in all mortals. I am the thing you fear the most. I am death..."
    —Valkia the Bloody.
  • twwatcher#9628twwatcher#9628 Registered Users Posts: 2,727
    Game wise having a fair few of these special hero's running around on the campaign map controlled by the AI might not be that much fun to play against unless you can invest in some pretty effective counter measures.

    Don't see a problem on the battlefield. The more the merrier.
  • HisShadowBG#8316HisShadowBG#8316 Registered Users Posts: 3,437
    edited July 2017
    Maybe cause that will somewhat limit the pool for LL of some races who don't have so many named Lord characters
    Post edited by HisShadowBG#8316 on

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • octavian1127octavian1127 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,278
    I imagine the theory could be that if they're going to put work into a unique character, it might as well be a Lord. Green Knight is a special case with no skill tree and Krell is part of a promotional event.
    |Sith|Octavian
  • EizoEizo Registered Users Posts: 1,016

    Maybe cause that will somewhat limit the pool for LL of some races who don't so many named Lord characters

    the only one I can think of that lacks lord character are Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos dwarfs
    VC and Bretonnia also had that problem but CA ascended some character to the lord position.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member ArkansasRegistered Users Posts: 7,166

    Maybe cause that will somewhat limit the pool for LL of some races who don't so many named Lord characters

    I don't think that every faction has to have LHs. It would actually be a lot of fun and help with the asymmetry if some factions did (or even some LLs did) and others didn't. It would really set Subfaction A apart from Subfaction B if Subfaction B has a LH whilst A does not.
  • DerpyRoxasDerpyRoxas Registered Users Posts: 3,348
    About a more viable Krell, don't worry , surely a mod which will get Krell recrutable as a unit will come. But so far, I really liked Krell invocation, it's more fitting, cause Krell is called to battle by his "master" at a whim.
    There's some irony in how he gets to the battlefield and what his truly allegiance lies...
  • corvus_codex#4567corvus_codex#4567 Junior Member SpainRegistered Users Posts: 3,073
    edited July 2017
    there are few ways to balance them

    for example like CA did with the Green knight, by contract him a number of turns,
    ( im not fan of this, but if its necesary for balance, im not gonna complain)

    in campaing mode, they need to be hard to kill but really far from unkilable, I mean, maybe a -10% of sucess, or something, After all, they are Legendary heroes who would start equally from Level 1. not like Green knight.

    the "only one LH, for each type", witch mean a maximun of 3 LH per faction, will be ok i guess.
    (Of coruse, not every faction have 3 LH as MrJade said)
    image
    "I am the harbinger of your demise. I am the nightmare in all mortals. I am the thing you fear the most. I am death..."
    —Valkia the Bloody.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    edited July 2017
    The green knight is a bit too limited but in a way it was fitting for the role of "savior comes, settles things, goes away".

    For what I can tell, they are reluctant to code for a new class of characters enterely. LL were about the very special big heroes of the lore, when you start introducing LL heroes things are getting muddier. What is your generic Lord value against a LL hero for instance?

    But the coding part is certainly important, so many scripts and variables are certainly tied to whoever is leading the army.
    Post edited by uriak on
  • Mogwai_Man#4978Mogwai_Man#4978 Registered Users Posts: 6,096
    Grombrindal could have been one and would have functioned like the green knight does on the campaign map.
  • Donorma_IronshieldDonorma_Ironshield Registered Users Posts: 383
    edited July 2017
    The requirements for "Legendary hero" get steeper with every legendary hero they add. As far as I'm concerned the game has heros with names pulled from the lore, and unique aesthetics and rules. That's enough to justify the title of "Legendary Hero"


    That said, Krell current implementation is way more interesting this way than he would be with the generic rule set. And honestly, there's room to argue that he is a legendary hero.
  • Ol_Nessie#9894Ol_Nessie#9894 Registered Users Posts: 4,310
    corvo said:


    the "only one LH, for each type", witch mean a maximun of 3 LH per faction, will be ok i guess.
    (Of coruse, not every faction have 3 LH as MrJade said)

    Except some LH don't exactly fit into one of the hero categories for their race. Josef Bugman and Markus Wulfhart come to mind. I mean sure, they'd probably class Bugman as a thane, but he doesn't actually hold that title. What would Wulfart be?
  • corvus_codex#4567corvus_codex#4567 Junior Member SpainRegistered Users Posts: 3,073
    edited July 2017
    ben8vtedu said:

    corvo said:


    the "only one LH, for each type", witch mean a maximun of 3 LH per faction, will be ok i guess.
    (Of coruse, not every faction have 3 LH as MrJade said)

    Except some LH don't exactly fit into one of the hero categories for their race. Josef Bugman and Markus Wulfhart come to mind. I mean sure, they'd probably class Bugman as a thane, but he doesn't actually hold that title. What would Wulfart be?
    always can be a singular type of hero with mix skills, not a big deal.
    I mean, it can be...
    "melee, caster, assassin, special" for example.
    image
    "I am the harbinger of your demise. I am the nightmare in all mortals. I am the thing you fear the most. I am death..."
    —Valkia the Bloody.
  • Ol_Nessie#9894Ol_Nessie#9894 Registered Users Posts: 4,310
    corvo said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    corvo said:


    the "only one LH, for each type", witch mean a maximun of 3 LH per faction, will be ok i guess.
    (Of coruse, not every faction have 3 LH as MrJade said)

    Except some LH don't exactly fit into one of the hero categories for their race. Josef Bugman and Markus Wulfhart come to mind. I mean sure, they'd probably class Bugman as a thane, but he doesn't actually hold that title. What would Wulfart be?
    always can be a singular type of hero with mix skills, not a big deal.
    I mean, it can be...
    "melee, caster, assassin, special" for example.
    Fair 'nuff
  • harngersteinharngerstein Registered Users Posts: 1,028
    edited July 2017
    Guys lets be serious. In the current build of the game, I can recruit skyhammer, norgrimlings ironbreakers, grumbling guard, the gob lobber and dragonback slayers into Thorgrims army, besiege karak Azul, take heavy casualties and occupy the city, disband said units, end turn, re-recruit all of those units (and many more!) into Grombrindal's army in Zufbar and besiege Castle drakenhof and raise it. All in a total of two turns.

    If CA is worried about balance it really means that they don't intend on actually doing it. They can clearly jump through hoops if they want something in the game
  • YitterbumYitterbum Registered Users Posts: 412
    It's to prevent HeroHammer.

    I'm fine with Krell being a summon, since that removes his upkeep in campaign and encourages people to use Kemmler. I'm not too keen on him slowly losing health like other summons though. Seems unnecessary to put a handicap on the lord that you were trying to buff. That and it ends up taking away from Kemmler's winds of magic pool trying to keep him around longer.
  • endurstonehelm#6102endurstonehelm#6102 Registered Users Posts: 4,259
    There are tons of special characters for every race in the TT army books. They aren't going to run out of characters for any race. There are plenty of remaining characters for wood elves, bretonnia, etc. that CA has yet to make rules for.

  • UchihaGUchihaG Registered Users Posts: 364
    I feel like it is wasted potential to use him as a summon only. He could be a pretty cool legendary lord (focusing on Skeletons and with epic gear) OR he could be a hero like the Green Knight. They could give the Vampire Counts a quest line specific to Kemmler (e.g. deploy Kemmler and so on) to unlock Krell (similarly to the chivalry mechanic for the Green Knight, but instead a simple quest line as for the legendary items). Think about it: Kemmler had to actually do something similar to a quest to find Krell and bring him back to life! When finished, you may recruit him but ONLY into Kemmler's army! Thus, he could also obtain unique items while being "only" a hero. :smile:

    CPU: Xeon E3-1231v3 3.40GHz
    GPU: MSI GeForce GTX970
    RAM: 16GB DDR3
    SSD: 250GB Samsung 850 Evo
  • FifthOfSpaghettiFifthOfSpaghetti Registered Users Posts: 1,636
    I would only have them be special in battles. Maybe a higher success rate on the campaign map but they shouldn't be any harder to get rid of than regular heroes. One per race, not even one per faction. VC Krell, Brets Green Knight, and who ever else for the rest.
  • corvus_codex#4567corvus_codex#4567 Junior Member SpainRegistered Users Posts: 3,073

    I would only have them be special in battles. Maybe a higher success rate on the campaign map but they shouldn't be any harder to get rid of than regular heroes

    but, technically, they are better heroes, they should survive more easily. anyway, not a great buff either, just a 10% or something.
    image
    "I am the harbinger of your demise. I am the nightmare in all mortals. I am the thing you fear the most. I am death..."
    —Valkia the Bloody.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    Honestly it feels like feature creep. You know what I'd want way before Legendary heroes? Officially remade skill trees for the first melee heroes, in the way the Gorebull or elven heroes were made. This could help more diversity and impact on the armies.

    And for what is worst, the hardest part (adding the model/animation/sound) is done, people will use them to add him in varied implementation to please each crowd.
  • alex33#8263alex33#8263 Registered Users Posts: 1,280
    Tbh the green knight never actually succseeded in my games to actually ever do anything on the map so i personally dont see a problem with him being a LH. And i'm actually waiting for a mod that actually does that
  • capybarasiesta89#4722capybarasiesta89#4722 Senior Member Bath, UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,463
    I honestly don't understand even Isabella should be a hero unit with Vlad in the army not as separate Lord it's a bit nuisance tbh dragging her behind Vlad stack with only few flying units because she has red skill tree for it.

    I really want to see LH and attach them to the army or lead small force of 10 units only. I don't think it's hard to do.

    Th LH I would love to see
    Schwarzhelm, Lokhir Fellheart, Deathmaster Snikch.
    h1feizw8yzk6.jpg
  • corvus_codex#4567corvus_codex#4567 Junior Member SpainRegistered Users Posts: 3,073


    Th LH I would love to see
    Schwarzhelm, Lokhir Fellheart, Deathmaster Snikch.

    Lokhir can be leader, isn't he?
    I added Schwarzhelm to the list. ;)
    image
    "I am the harbinger of your demise. I am the nightmare in all mortals. I am the thing you fear the most. I am death..."
    —Valkia the Bloody.
Sign In or Register to comment.