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Should Dragon Ogres, Shaggoths and Kholek be resized

cool_ladcool_lad Senior MemberIndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
Now that we have mammoths in the game, introducing a new scale of physical unit size, should the dragon ogres, shaggoths and Kholek Suneater (who are supposed to be the size of small mountains) be resized accordingly; they would at least be as big if not bigger than mammoths?
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Comments

  • JungleElfJungleElf Registered Users Posts: 967
    No. Would mess with graphics. You know, the textures would get pixel-y.

    They're big enough, too.
  • Lord_HenkusLord_Henkus Registered Users Posts: 1,580
    Yes, Bigger is better.








    Ahum
    How negative I may sound, game is stil 11 out of 10

    Also, please slow down combat!




  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,514
    Actually yes I think thats reasonable, they should be large, but thats also a disadvantage and they would need changed stats cause they would become bulletsponges.
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,660
    Shaggoth's no.

    Mammoths are massive in tabletop and have 10 wounds, compared to the 6 of a giant or shaggoth. Kholek and Arachnarok spiders have 8.

    Kholek might need to be a smidge bigger, but him not being the largest living being in existence is fine. Star dragons as well as various sea monsters should easily give him a run for his money in the heavyweight category, mammoths too.
    Space Frontier is a sci-fi themed board game I've designed for 2-4 players. Please take a look and enjoy our free Print-and-Play at FreezeDriedGames.com

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  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FranceRegistered Users Posts: 1,937
    Monstrous size has no intrinsic merit, unless inordinate exsanguination be considered a virtue.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • stuboy52stuboy52 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 82
    Dalakh said:

    Monstrous size has no intrinsic merit, unless inordinate exsanguination be considered a virtue.

    Nice Darkest Dungeon reference.
  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,692
    Nah, they seem fine to me.
    i5-3550 CPU @ 3.30GHz
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  • KlalearaKlaleara Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 222
    Resize would require texture rework, hit box rework, stat rework, and point value rework.

    Seems like a lot of work, for what would be a rather small change.

    I'd say let mods change that, instead of the devs changing it.
  • SindrissSindriss Registered Users Posts: 448
    Klaleara said:



    I'd say let mods change that, instead of the devs changing it.

    Resizing units is not something so easily done by modders. It often brings animation problems. CA would probably have to do it but I highly doubt they will.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,323
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,578
    This is Kholeks official picture


    it's roughly the size as ingame...

    make him too big and you need to destroy parts of the wall to get him into the city, because he won't fit through the gate
    Kayosiv said:



    Kholek might need to be a smidge bigger, but him not being the largest living being in existence is fine. Star dragons as well as various sea monsters should easily give him a run for his money in the heavyweight category, mammoths too.

    Don't forget his daddy, Krakanrok the black

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,041
    Ain't he still asleep? Lazy ogre.
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,660


    Don't forget his daddy, Krakanrok the black

    He'll definitely wake up during the end times. Totally definitely probably!
    Space Frontier is a sci-fi themed board game I've designed for 2-4 players. Please take a look and enjoy our free Print-and-Play at FreezeDriedGames.com

    If you have any questions about tactics or mechanics in Total War Warhammer multiplayer, feel free to PM me.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIRegistered Users Posts: 7,165
    Kayosiv said:


    Don't forget his daddy, Krakanrok the black

    He'll definitely wake up during the end times. Totally definitely probably!
    Did he?
    Thrones of Britannia: 69/100
    Warhammer II: 73/100
    Warhammer: 79/100
    Attila: 70/100 [Age of Charlemagne: 72/100]
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    Napoleon: 58/100
    Empire: 53/100
    Medieval II: 90/100 [Kingdoms: 90/100]
    Rome I: 88/100
    Medieval I: 92/100
    Shogun I: 84/100
  • bronhomsbronhoms Registered Users Posts: 1,330
    Yes they should. Kholek being smaller than a giant is stupid.

    DO's should be almost as tall as mammoth/giants and kholek should at least be as tall as them too.

    There's no indication in lore that giants are taller than a being that never stops growing and is immortal. They're super big, but Kholek should really outclass them in size as a token of all the time he's been alive.

  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FranceRegistered Users Posts: 1,937
    MrJade said:

    Kayosiv said:


    Don't forget his daddy, Krakanrok the black

    He'll definitely wake up during the end times. Totally definitely probably!
    Did he?
    Nope.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • GrimblueGrimblue Registered Users Posts: 861
    I wish everything was100% bigger.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 3,421
    There is a little risk of power creep here, or rather size creep. I've got a distinct feeling WoC lovers feels "diminished" by this new roster ;)
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    You know CA SHRUNK Kholek down from his original size right? The big lug needs his former glory back (and a hefty number of buffs to go along with it... Or even without it)
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,578
    edited July 2017
    MrJade said:

    Kayosiv said:


    Don't forget his daddy, Krakanrok the black

    He'll definitely wake up during the end times. Totally definitely probably!
    Did he?
    I think one of the authors had mentioned they forgot about him and he was indeed awake and wrecking some poor city or so

    You know CA SHRUNK Kholek down from his original size right? The big lug needs his former glory back (and a hefty number of buffs to go along with it... Or even without it)

    Loremaster of Sotek compares his official artwork with the Model as seen in the trailer:

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • bronhomsbronhoms Registered Users Posts: 1,330
    I think LoS is wrong in considering the art work as higher canon than the written lore. And his point that they can't be bigger without being ridiculous is also .. weird considering that giants already are taller.

  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,578
    edited July 2017
    bronhoms said:

    I think LoS is wrong in considering the art work as higher canon than the written lore. And his point that they can't be bigger without being ridiculous is also .. weird considering that giants already are taller.

    the artwork is the "official representation", the lore is the stuff GWs wrote/allowed to write to give stuff more of abackground and to earn a dime of it

    and in regards of resizing Kholek and stuff:
    Make him too big and he won't fit through the gate (and if you adjust his stats to go along with hte increased size he might become OP too). So you would need to destroy a part of the wall to get him through. If you allow him to attack walls though, it might actually become a bit unfair...
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • SultschiemSultschiem Registered Users Posts: 2,250
    I'm already kinda confused why units such as Shaggoths, Giants and Kholek cannot destroy Walls....
    They should be able to...
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,578

    I'm already kinda confused why units such as Shaggoths, Giants and Kholek cannot destroy Walls....
    They should be able to...

    yes, but I think the reason is, that they would easily whipe out the walls while also killing the units ontop of it while doing it.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,575

    I'm already kinda confused why units such as Shaggoths, Giants and Kholek cannot destroy Walls....
    They should be able to...

    yes, but I think the reason is, that they would easily whipe out the walls while also killing the units ontop of it while doing it.
    Mb make it take a while for them to kill a wall? Less damage than a cannon so the troops manning the wall have plenty of time to gtfo of dodge
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,578

    I'm already kinda confused why units such as Shaggoths, Giants and Kholek cannot destroy Walls....
    They should be able to...

    yes, but I think the reason is, that they would easily whipe out the walls while also killing the units ontop of it while doing it.
    Mb make it take a while for them to kill a wall? Less damage than a cannon so the troops manning the wall have plenty of time to gtfo of dodge
    depending on the angle of attack they would be hit anyway... if it's a downward swing with Star Crusher i don't see how they could dodge that. And less damage than siege weapons: I mean realistically seen stuff like Trebuchets weren't nearly as effective as some believe... basically, having them have less DMG than a cannon or so would mean that giving them the ability to attack walls would be near useless anyway, because they take so long
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,575

    I'm already kinda confused why units such as Shaggoths, Giants and Kholek cannot destroy Walls....
    They should be able to...

    yes, but I think the reason is, that they would easily whipe out the walls while also killing the units ontop of it while doing it.
    Mb make it take a while for them to kill a wall? Less damage than a cannon so the troops manning the wall have plenty of time to gtfo of dodge
    depending on the angle of attack they would be hit anyway... if it's a downward swing with Star Crusher i don't see how they could dodge that. And less damage than siege weapons: I mean realistically seen stuff like Trebuchets weren't nearly as effective as some believe... basically, having them have less DMG than a cannon or so would mean that giving them the ability to attack walls would be near useless anyway, because they take so long
    I didn't mean have them dodge the attack, i meant get out of the way by moving them to another wall section or off the wall completely.

    Good call on the DMG point, I guess less would be kinda pointless.
  • Nyanko73Nyanko73 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,351
    Too many charlemagnes. They need to be used elsewhere.

    Team Yennefer

    "A blinding flash materialised into a transparent sphere, and inside it loomed a shape, assuming contours and shapes at frightening speed. Dandelion recognised it at once. He knew those wild, black curls and the obsidian star on a velvet ribbon. What he didn’t know and had never seen before was the face. It was a face of rage and fury, the face of the goddess of vengeance, destruction and death." - Time of contempt
  • SynXSynX Registered Users Posts: 5
    Yes, at least Kholek.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    HoneyBun said:

    Surtha Ek demands a chariot resize!

    To hell with your chariots! Chaos demands a pony resize! Look at those chaos knights and marauder horsemen riding those tiny battle ponies. It's embarrassing!
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