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High Elven Mages - What lores of magic do they have access too??

TyrionpeepTyrionpeep Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 324
I don't think I picked that one up and it doesn't say in the official army roster. Ideally they should have at least 2 to 3 different lores, cause Elves. Hell, they taught them Empire to use magic. I'm not expecting them to have all the lores, but i hope it's more than just High Magic.

Also, on a different note, what do you all think about the High Elven roster stats from the past couple of videos?? Do you feel that the High Elves are a viable army to use??
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Comments

  • IcestrugleIcestrugle Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,214
    If I remember well light magic wizard already shown.
  • SudoKnightlyNonsenseSudoKnightlyNonsense Registered Users Posts: 1,818
    They have a mix of all the lores, that's what makes High elves and Slaan unique: High Magic.
  • Nitros14Nitros14 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,844
    edited July 2017
    In 8th edition Tabletop High Elves have access to the Lores of Fire, Heavens, Beasts, Light, Life, Death, Shadow, Metal and High Magic.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Registered Users Posts: 1,203
    I would expect HE wizards to have High, Fire, Light and Life at launch. Dark elf sorceresses will have Dark, Death, Shadow and either Beasts or Metal.
  • irurobinirurobin Registered Users Posts: 1,826
    edited July 2017
    They should have access to all 8 lores + High Magic. Hopefully Wood Elves get High and Dark Magic as well.

    The High Elves stat looks like shxt at the moment when you consider most of them will be more expensive then Empire's same tier unit. Most of their melee defence are shxt after you took the passive buff away.

    The white lions have the same fate as Chaos Warriors who got nerfed down one tier because CA wants campaign progression (A stupid decission btw). If they cost more than 800 they will be in a sad position.

    And the missing of shadow warriors and sisters of Averlon from launch hurts High Elves greatly as well.
  • GeldorGeldor Registered Users Posts: 1,115
    So far, we don't know they haven't said anything about that, and we haven't seen them using anything but a few high magic spells.

    The stats in the latest gameplay vid looked mediocre/bad when you consider they were for gold/silver chevron troops and included martial prowess.

    But those won't have been the final version, we have to see how their release version looks like.

  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,342
    Well... Chances are they will have all the good guy stuff at least, so heavens, light, high, fire? Both high and dark elves should have everything (kind of)
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • gladonosgladonos Registered Users Posts: 635
    High Elf Mages will probably have High, Fire, Light, and Life.

    Dark elf Sorceresses will probably have Dark, Death, Shadow and Beasts

    Lizardmen Slaan Mage Priests will probably have High, Heavens and Light.

    Lizardmen Skink Priests will probably have High, Heavens and Light.

    Skaven Grey Seers will probably have Ruin

    Skaven Warlock Engineers will have Ruin

    Skaven Plague Priests will have Plague

    Skaven Vermin Lords will probably have Plague

  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,116
    If they decide to give High Elves the (("good")) lores and the Dark Elves the (("bad")) ones IE what sounds good and bad to someone that doesn't understand Warhammer I will be EXTREMELY dissapointed. It'd just be an utter failure to understand the lore on the part of CA if that were the case.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,342
    Nah Empire doesn't have all lores either so I'm pretty convinced CA is going to go with a thematic approach rather than lore friendly, which I have issues swallowing myself in certain cases too (this being one of those cases)
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,872
    Krunch said:

    If they decide to give High Elves the (("good")) lores and the Dark Elves the (("bad")) ones IE what sounds good and bad to someone that doesn't understand Warhammer I will be EXTREMELY dissapointed. It'd just be an utter failure to understand the lore on the part of CA if that were the case.

    I agree. Magic in itself is dangerous and the HE/DE having a good selection will show that they are masters of magic, not masters of good/evil magic. Warcraft has the whole good magic bad magic thing, let it stay there.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,571
    Nemox said:

    Krunch said:

    If they decide to give High Elves the (("good")) lores and the Dark Elves the (("bad")) ones IE what sounds good and bad to someone that doesn't understand Warhammer I will be EXTREMELY dissapointed. It'd just be an utter failure to understand the lore on the part of CA if that were the case.

    I agree. Magic in itself is dangerous and the HE/DE having a good selection will show that they are masters of magic, not masters of good/evil magic. Warcraft has the whole good magic bad magic thing, let it stay there.
    *looks to the Empire and themissing two wizard heroes*... I wouldn't expect to much...
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,116
    edited July 2017
    Seldkam said:

    Nah Empire doesn't have all lores either so I'm pretty convinced CA is going to go with a thematic approach rather than lore friendly, which I have issues swallowing myself in certain cases too (this being one of those cases)

    It's not even thematic though, it is just dumb. Death is not "Evil" in the Warhammer universe. Look at the bloody Empire, Skulls are so common I don't see how they even fear Necromancers and Skeletons at all honestly, I'm pretty sure their cribs have bloody skulls on them. Death is one of the most anti-necromancer schools of magic in the Empire even. After all, what is more unnatural and opposite to death than undeath?

    Also, to even use the lore of High Magic you need to have an understanding of all 7 lores of magic and be proficcient in their use. Dark Magic is a bit different since it is more just grabbing the 7 winds and kind of brute forcing and willing them to combine and do what you want and not harmonizing them into a brilliant stream like High Magic but I imagine it still takes knowledge of the Winds.

    If CA decides to go with so called "Thematic" spell divisions they simply don't understand that aspect of Warhammer lore at all and I have nothing more to say about it.
  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,872

    Nemox said:

    Krunch said:

    If they decide to give High Elves the (("good")) lores and the Dark Elves the (("bad")) ones IE what sounds good and bad to someone that doesn't understand Warhammer I will be EXTREMELY dissapointed. It'd just be an utter failure to understand the lore on the part of CA if that were the case.

    I agree. Magic in itself is dangerous and the HE/DE having a good selection will show that they are masters of magic, not masters of good/evil magic. Warcraft has the whole good magic bad magic thing, let it stay there.
    *looks to the Empire and themissing two wizard heroes*... I wouldn't expect to much...
    Meh, The Empire still doesn't have a subfaction, but other races do.
  • gladonosgladonos Registered Users Posts: 635

    Nemox said:

    Krunch said:

    If they decide to give High Elves the (("good")) lores and the Dark Elves the (("bad")) ones IE what sounds good and bad to someone that doesn't understand Warhammer I will be EXTREMELY dissapointed. It'd just be an utter failure to understand the lore on the part of CA if that were the case.

    I agree. Magic in itself is dangerous and the HE/DE having a good selection will show that they are masters of magic, not masters of good/evil magic. Warcraft has the whole good magic bad magic thing, let it stay there.
    *looks to the Empire and themissing two wizard heroes*... I wouldn't expect to much...
    *Looks at Wood Elves who are missing 80% of their Lores* I don't expect much at all. :)
  • GeldorGeldor Registered Users Posts: 1,115
    Krunch said:

    Seldkam said:

    Nah Empire doesn't have all lores either so I'm pretty convinced CA is going to go with a thematic approach rather than lore friendly, which I have issues swallowing myself in certain cases too (this being one of those cases)

    It's not even thematic though, it is just dumb. Death is not "Evil" in the Warhammer universe. Look at the bloody Empire, Skulls are so common I don't see how they even fear Necromancers and Skeletons at all honestly, I'm pretty sure their cribs have bloody skulls on them. Death is one of the most anti-necromancer schools of magic in the Empire even. After all, what is more unnatural and opposite to death than undeath?

    Also, to even use the lore of High Magic you need to have an understanding of all 7 lores of magic and be proficcient in their use. Dark Magic is a bit different since it is more just grabbing the 7 winds and kind of brute forcing and willing them to combine and do what you want and not harmonizing them into a brilliant stream like High Magic but I imagine it still takes knowledge of the Winds.

    If CA decides to go with so called "Thematic" spell divisions they simply don't understand that aspect of Warhammer lore at all and I have nothing more to say about it.
    Still, the most likely approach though. Just seeing what they did with WE.

    It just points to HE getting something like high and light magic, maybe life or heaven. We might even just see high magic for the normal mages, and some combination for the loremaster and Teclis.

    If HE don't get fire at first, then hopefully they later get it with a dragon mage.


  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,342
    Krunch said:

    Seldkam said:

    Nah Empire doesn't have all lores either so I'm pretty convinced CA is going to go with a thematic approach rather than lore friendly, which I have issues swallowing myself in certain cases too (this being one of those cases)

    It's not even thematic though, it is just dumb. Death is not "Evil" in the Warhammer universe. Look at the bloody Empire, Skulls are so common I don't see how they even fear Necromancers and Skeletons at all honestly, I'm pretty sure their cribs have bloody skulls on them. Death is one of the most anti-necromancer schools of magic in the Empire even. After all, what is more unnatural and opposite to death than undeath?

    Also, to even use the lore of High Magic you need to have an understanding of all 7 lores of magic and be proficcient in their use. Dark Magic is a bit different since it is more just grabbing the 7 winds and kind of brute forcing and willing them to combine and do what you want and not harmonizing them into a brilliant stream like High Magic but I imagine it still takes knowledge of the Winds.

    If CA decides to go with so called "Thematic" spell divisions they simply don't understand that aspect of Warhammer lore at all and I have nothing more to say about it.
    No I think there are two reasons why they wouldn't do the elves and empire full justice:

    1) just a matter of time and resources. Too much time to make too many "superfluous" heroes that ultimately may not drive the faction's playstyle home. And that leads into the second point.

    2) faction differentiation, playstyle, and the need to make the campaigns feel different. This is, I agree, incredibly stupid as the reason why these factions are so interesting in the magic department is exactly their ability to use all the lores, even if it might not coincide with their culture, and so that you can actually see the magic that is "supposed" to be used in battle. But you can see things like this all over CA's design and balance decisions.

    In the TT, Cannons can deal some serious damage to dragons. Dragons destroy almost everything in melee, however.

    In TW Dragons are utterly useless, and I highly doubt the breath change will change them enough for them to be properly worth their price points, given the fact that they have extremely large hitboxes and just overall aren't particularly tanky.

    Why is this? To keep Dragons from costing too much so that they are "seen" in battle (even tho they're not, at least not in MP in most scenarios.)

    It's also just possible that we won't see them because of the inability to create the lores of magic without making them balanced within the faction, which could be another reason Dragons and the like are so badly made, especially compared to the cheaper Gryphon which is insanely better.
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,872
    edited July 2017
    CA already said HE won't have all lores at the start, but it was something to look at down the road. CA are learning as they go and I hope to see by game 3 these issues sorted.

    As for what Krunch said, it is a fair point that Warhammer doesn't have good/evil magic divide. Both High and Dark Magic use all the winds. There is no alignment. Making a theme out of that is directly contrary to the lore.

    Not asking for all lores to be in yet, but not to be just "shadow death to DE, and light heavens to HE". That isn't unreasonable nor asking a great deal.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Registered Users Posts: 1,203
    Krunch said:

    If they decide to give High Elves the (("good")) lores and the Dark Elves the (("bad")) ones IE what sounds good and bad to someone that doesn't understand Warhammer I will be EXTREMELY dissapointed. It'd just be an utter failure to understand the lore on the part of CA if that were the case.

    High Magic, Light, Life and Fire aren't just some random selection of "good" lores. Fire is the lore of the Dragon Mages. Alarielle has HM, Life and Light as her lore choices. Teclis uses Light in several of his stories.

    Morathi has Dark, Shadow and Death and it's likely sorceresses will share them with her. The 4th lore to make things 'even' is open to debate, but Beast and Metal are probably the most beneficial to DE as Dark already offers what Heaven does and then some.
  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,872

    Krunch said:

    If they decide to give High Elves the (("good")) lores and the Dark Elves the (("bad")) ones IE what sounds good and bad to someone that doesn't understand Warhammer I will be EXTREMELY dissapointed. It'd just be an utter failure to understand the lore on the part of CA if that were the case.

    High Magic, Light, Life and Fire aren't just some random selection of "good" lores. Fire is the lore of the Dragon Mages. Alarielle has HM, Life and Light as her lore choices. Teclis uses Light in several of his stories.

    Morathi has Dark, Shadow and Death and it's likely sorceresses will share them with her. The 4th lore to make things 'even' is open to debate, but Beast and Metal are probably the most beneficial to DE as Dark already offers what Heaven does and then some.
    DE could use lore of life in TT.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,342
    Dark is probably going to be nothing but direct damage and maybe a hex or two (and of course one vortex). Potentially good. High we can already see has some good spells as far as we can tell, and some maybe mediocre ones. The magic spell in High magic that gives leadership and magic resistance could work but it will have to be cheap. And honestly even then maybe not worth it...
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Registered Users Posts: 1,203
    Nemox said:

    Krunch said:

    If they decide to give High Elves the (("good")) lores and the Dark Elves the (("bad")) ones IE what sounds good and bad to someone that doesn't understand Warhammer I will be EXTREMELY dissapointed. It'd just be an utter failure to understand the lore on the part of CA if that were the case.

    High Magic, Light, Life and Fire aren't just some random selection of "good" lores. Fire is the lore of the Dragon Mages. Alarielle has HM, Life and Light as her lore choices. Teclis uses Light in several of his stories.

    Morathi has Dark, Shadow and Death and it's likely sorceresses will share them with her. The 4th lore to make things 'even' is open to debate, but Beast and Metal are probably the most beneficial to DE as Dark already offers what Heaven does and then some.
    DE could use lore of life in TT.
    DE could use every lore of battle magic. Life was certainly a popular choice, especially on a level 4 in a deathstar. I wouldn't complain if they ended up with it.
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,116
    Nemox said:

    CA already said HE won't have all lores at the start, but it was something to look at down the road. CA are learning as they go and I hope to see by game 3 these issues sorted.

    As for what Krunch said, it is a fair point that Warhammer doesn't have good/evil magic divide. Both High and Dark Magic use all the winds. There is no alignment. Making a theme out of that is directly contrary to the lore.

    Not asking for all lores to be in yet, but not to be just "shadow death to DE, and light heavens to HE". That isn't unreasonable nor asking a great deal.

    No I would definitely argue High and Dark magic are very much Good and Evil generally, it is just their composite parts are not.

    It's like the Force in Star Wars if you are familliar. The Light side and the Dark Side are both using the same exact energies, just in different ways and while the Light side has less physical power and generally is more directed by the light side user, the Dark Side is basically grabbing the force by the throat and telling it to do what you say, which, while less restricting is more corrupting. It is very much simmilar with High and Dark magic I'd say.


    But like I said, the most important part is that despite these differences the core components of both force powers and High/Dark magic are not good or evil at all.
  • irurobinirurobin Registered Users Posts: 1,826


    At least we know Loremaster of Hoeth will have some lore of life and lore of shadow. o3o
  • GeldorGeldor Registered Users Posts: 1,115
    Nice catch. I missed that.

    So I think likely the loremaster will have a choice of one spell of all the implemented winds, mages only use high magic, and Teclis maybe some kind of combination of a few lords.

    Would be a bit how WE work and what they did with Mazdamundi.

  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,342
    mages use at least light and high...
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Registered Users Posts: 1,203
    Geldor said:

    Nice catch. I missed that.

    So I think likely the loremaster will have a choice of one spell of all the implemented winds, mages only use high magic, and Teclis maybe some kind of combination of a few lords.

    Would be a bit how WE work and what they did with Mazdamundi.

    Loremaster of Hoeth gets the signature spell from each of the 8 lores. Though TWWH limits you to 6 spells, so he'll be short 2. I would guess he doesn't have Iceshard Blizzard (it's not in game) and Spirit Leach.

    In that pic he has Earthblood (signature spell for Life) and Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma (signature spell for Shadow).
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,342
    Both of which are amazing right now. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the normal pick for High Elves, especially since he should logically be decent at fighting.
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • HexiHexi Registered Users Posts: 1,100
    Gork-a-mancy is the only magic worth having anyways.
    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt
  • GeldorGeldor Registered Users Posts: 1,115

    Geldor said:

    Nice catch. I missed that.

    So I think likely the loremaster will have a choice of one spell of all the implemented winds, mages only use high magic, and Teclis maybe some kind of combination of a few lords.

    Would be a bit how WE work and what they did with Mazdamundi.

    Loremaster of Hoeth gets the signature spell from each of the 8 lores. Though TWWH limits you to 6 spells, so he'll be short 2. I would guess he doesn't have Iceshard Blizzard (it's not in game) and Spirit Leach.

    In that pic he has Earthblood (signature spell for Life) and Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma (signature spell for Shadow).
    Yup, that's what I meant with "one spell of all the implemented winds". I know they get the signature spells in the TT.

    Giving the loremaster that much variety, might be one reason why they think he'll be so powerful. Probably will set him apart from the mage, where I agree with people here - likely only will see high magic, or a limited range of "good magic" lores.
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