Skaven clan differentiation's (And Warpstone discussion)

Jellyphas

The four major clans ,besides Clan Mors or the Generic Skaven faction, should have differentiation's that would make them differ from each other and have their own playstyles.

One is for each of the four clans to have either discounts or increased cost's of their units. For instance:

Clan Skryre could have discounts to their weapons of war and their units who wield things like the Ratling gun or Warpfire-Thrower's and their weapons stats are better. Alternatively, their warpstone based units and machines will be even more expensive, but again their stats are better (and perhaps less likely to explode (or more likely or sumthin))

And perhaps like Middenland, each clan will not have access to each of the other clans goodies. For instance, Clan Moulder has their warpstone molded creatures, but don't have access to Skryre's machines. This could be a restriction to both campaign and multiplayer, or just restricted to multiplayer, and other clans can purchase each other's toys for warpstone in the campaign.

And concerning Warpstone, I have heard that people would like to see Warpstone as a secondary resource like the Wood Elves's amber. The Skaven could have this primary resource called loot/plunder, and the secondary one is either warpstone or warpstone tokens. The four clans can sell their weapons/units to the other clans for warpstone/warpstone tokens, only except they can gain more than the Wood Elves.

What do you guys think ?

corvus_codex

Jellyphas said:

And perhaps like Middenland, each clan will not have access to each of the other clans goodies. For instance, Clan Moulder has their warpstone molded creatures, but don't have access to Skryre's machines. This could be a restriction to both campaign and multiplayer, or just restricted to multiplayer, and other clans can purchase each other's toys for warpstone in the campaign.

The skaven buy each others all the war-stuff, warriors, beasts, machines, whatever. restrict the player by clan-based is unlorefull, and a bad decision for the gameplay.

Jellyphas

corvo said:

Jellyphas said:

And perhaps like Middenland, each clan will not have access to each of the other clans goodies. For instance, Clan Moulder has their warpstone molded creatures, but don't have access to Skryre's machines. This could be a restriction to both campaign and multiplayer, or just restricted to multiplayer, and other clans can purchase each other's toys for warpstone in the campaign.

The skaven buy each others all the war-stuff, warriors, beasts, machines, whatever. restrict the player by clan-based is unlorefull, and a bad decision for the gameplay.

Hmmmm, maybe other clans who use each others weapons could have an increased cost. For instance: Clan Skryre's Warp Lightning Cannon could only cost them (Skryre) 1000, whilst other clans who use them have an increased cost like say 13-1400 ?

corvus_codex

Jellyphas said:

corvo said:

Jellyphas said:

And perhaps like Middenland, each clan will not have access to each of the other clans goodies. For instance, Clan Moulder has their warpstone molded creatures, but don't have access to Skryre's machines. This could be a restriction to both campaign and multiplayer, or just restricted to multiplayer, and other clans can purchase each other's toys for warpstone in the campaign.

The skaven buy each others all the war-stuff, warriors, beasts, machines, whatever. restrict the player by clan-based is unlorefull, and a bad decision for the gameplay.

Hmmmm, maybe other clans who use each others weapons could have an increased cost. For instance: Clan Skryre's Warp Lightning Cannon could only cost them (Skryre) 1000, whilst other clans who use them have an increased cost like say 13-1400 ?

That would fit more, but why need to be complicated?, its far more easy to have LL for every clan to have special discounts for their clan creations.

another options, less popular should be a Amber-like system like "big Warpstones", And that, was the resource with which to buy special units.

Krunch

The skaven literally use warpstone as currency, it should not be an amber system.

Every clan should have access to all units. Discounts and buffs should be related to certain LL's representing their clans only. Skrolk gets cheaper Plague units, Ikit Claw cheaper Skryre stuff Queek cheaper Stormvermin etc.

Commissar_G

I CANNOT understand this bizarre obsession that floods the forums with restricting the Skaven (and only the Skaven) gameplay and roster in this manner?

Nobody is saying we should restrict White Lions by giving them limited recruitment or mass upkeep unless you play as Chrace, or Executioners unless you play Har Ganeth.

It's like a mass hypnosis of bad game design.

corvus_codex

Krunch said:

The skaven literally use warpstone as currency, it should not be an amber system.

im talking about "warpstone" as normal currency and some kind of "Warpstone Cluster" as special.
just like Mordheim game do,

Anyways, i don't like to have two "warpstone reources" either, I was describing a plausible situation in that case.

krunsh

I think using warpstone as an amber equivalent would make a lot of sense, but isn't necessary at all.

Commissar_G said:

I CANNOT understand this bizarre obsession that floods the forums with restricting the Skaven (and only the Skaven) gameplay and roster in this manner?

Nobody is saying we should restrict White Lions by giving them limited recruitment or mass upkeep unless you play as Chrace, or Executioners unless you play Har Ganeth.

It's like a mass hypnosis of bad game design.

That's a pretty big difference, High elves provinces and skaven clans are not separated in the same way at all. Each skaven clan hold their creations close and sell them at high price only. It's not a rare occurrence by any mean, but it is an important part of the lore.

Krunch said:

The skaven literally use warpstone as currency, it should not be an amber system.

Every clan should have access to all units. Discounts and buffs should be related to certain LL's representing their clans only. Skrolk gets cheaper Plague units, Ikit Claw cheaper Skryre stuff Queek cheaper Stormvermin etc.

Sure they use it as currency, and many other things. It doesn't mean that it is their only currency, and it would make sense if Warpstone was used similarly to amber on the main building chain, for non-clan fitting elite units and monsters/warmachines.

In fact, I can't think of a better way to mark the importance of Warpstones in skaven culture than to make it similar to Amber:
- Used for elite units of other clans.
- Used to upgrade the main building of a province.
- Used to upgrade the victory condition related building (i.e: Oak of ages, but instead to brew a plague or build a weapon of mass destruction.

I'm not saying that it should absolutely work that way. Having a red skill tree matching your own clan's unit works just as well, but saying it would make no sense what so ever is just silly. If anything it makes a lot more sense than elves using Amber to recruit forest spirits and vice versa.

Draxynnic

krunsh said:

I think using warpstone as an amber equivalent would make a lot of sense, but isn't necessary at all.

Commissar_G said:

I CANNOT understand this bizarre obsession that floods the forums with restricting the Skaven (and only the Skaven) gameplay and roster in this manner?

Nobody is saying we should restrict White Lions by giving them limited recruitment or mass upkeep unless you play as Chrace, or Executioners unless you play Har Ganeth.

It's like a mass hypnosis of bad game design.

That's a pretty big difference, High elves provinces and skaven clans are not separated in the same way at all. Each skaven clan hold their creations close and sell them at high price only. It's not a rare occurrence by any mean, but it is an important part of the lore.

They sell them at high prices, yes, but they do seem to be fairly indiscriminate about who they'll sell to. They'll happily sell to rivals unless they're in the middle of a war with said rival there and then, for instance.

Probably so that they can then claim that any successes the rival has were only achieved through the stuff they bought. There's a reason why Clan Skryre is the wealthiest and most powerful clan.

I think there's a justification for your own clan's stuff to be noticeably cheaper, and in campaign, perhaps you might lose access to certain things if you're at war with the Great Clan who provides them. Generally, though, skaven should have access to the full list.

On the topic of an amber mechanic... I've considered that in the past, but I don't think it works. Skaven use warpstone as their main currency - it should be their equivalent of gold. (Which makes gold mines less valuable to them, but they do make use of gold so gold mines aren't completely worthless either.)

krunsh

It's not like having Warpstone as an extra ressource would mean it represents a single piece of warpstone. Skaven use warpstone as anything from food to currency, but they could trade anything from weapons, food, slaves, weapons, beasts, etc as part of currency as well.

A special ressource for warpstone would simply represent a significant amount (i.e: The equivalent of conquering a whole region, building an outpost there, and harvesting its Warpstone).

Either ways of doing this (Warpstone as main currency or as a special ressource) could easily be made to fit the lore, it's all a matter of what CA wants to do gameplay wise.

itsonlyme

Krunch said:

The skaven literally use warpstone as currency, it should not be an amber system.

Every clan should have access to all units. Discounts and buffs should be related to certain LL's representing their clans only. Skrolk gets cheaper Plague units, Ikit Claw cheaper Skryre stuff Queek cheaper Stormvermin etc.

Cheaper, better storm vermin. I seem to recall his could have WS5 in the game.

Arsenic

It'd be nice, but unlikely.

I'm expecting "Skaven Undivided" to all intents and purposes. We'll find out soon enough, by all accounts, if not from CA, from loose-tongued YouTubers.

Schussel

Why the Hell should CA introduce addtionaly to the Skaven Faction in WH2 the 4 Greater Clans as playable Factions especially when WH2 plays in the New World?

I mean I can understand, a Skaven Faction/Clan ( Somewhere in Southlands) + Clan Pestilence (Lustria)


also for the Combined Campaign Clan Moulder (Hell Pit ...nice starting position with Barbarians, Chaos and Kislev around you)
and Clan Mors (Karak Eight Peaks... also a hell of a starting position with Orks and Dwarfs around and Clan Angrund and Nightgoblins with the goal to conquer your Capitol City)

But why the Hell should they add Clan Skryre or Clan Eshin?
The first doesn't has an own Stronghold the other one is in Cathay

corvus_codex

Schussel said:

But why the Hell should they add Clan Skryre or Clan Eshin?
The first doesn't has an own Stronghold the other one is in Cathay

What are you talking about?.

- Clan Skryre domain Skavenblight,


http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Clan_Skryre

- Clan Eshin left Cathay long time ago, and settled in Skavenblight too, also the have presence anywhere.


http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Clan_Eshin

krunsh

Schussel said:

Why the Hell should CA introduce addtionaly to the Skaven Faction in WH2 the 4 Greater Clans as playable Factions especially when WH2 plays in the New World?

I mean I can understand, a Skaven Faction/Clan ( Somewhere in Southlands) + Clan Pestilence (Lustria)


also for the Combined Campaign Clan Moulder (Hell Pit ...nice starting position with Barbarians, Chaos and Kislev around you)
and Clan Mors (Karak Eight Peaks... also a hell of a starting position with Orks and Dwarfs around and Clan Angrund and Nightgoblins with the goal to conquer your Capitol City)

But why the Hell should they add Clan Skryre or Clan Eshin?
The first doesn't has an own Stronghold the other one is in Cathay

Clan Skryre in Skavenblight, Pestilens in the new world, Moulder up north in hellpit (possibly with game 3), and Eshin doesn't actually need to have it's own starting position and should be recruitable as mercenaries by all skaven, probably through its own building chain.

Mind you I still don't believe we will see a clear divide in clan in regard to game mechanics, but It is quite likely that skaven factions will be named after clans. I would expect a generic skaven faction (named skaven) in a Clan Pestilens to be the two starting skaven factions of game 2.

zzdjdegm

will there be underworld empire?

epic_159741717334pmOxTsb

My personal hope is that you can build Clan buildings in your underground cities. that seems to make more sense given what I read in the fluff and probably makes for better gameplay.

krunsh

Kambing1956 said:

My personal hope is that you can build Clan buildings in your underground cities. that seems to make more sense given what I read in the fluff and probably makes for better gameplay.

I agree, each clan as a good progression of unit tier. Build Eshin's building, get Night runners, upgrade to get Gutter runners and Assassins. Build Moulder's building, get giant rats, upgrade to get Rat Ogres and Hellpit abomination. Etc etc.

Would still work with either systems of warpstones though.