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Characters die in naval auto-resolve

MerciiMercii Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 944
The game 2 map has a lot of water and I'm looking forward to see how the importance of sea travel and possibly naval battles change up the strategies...BUT, I hate losing armies and particularly levelled characters in naval autoresolve.

In previous titles I have been very shy about embarking valuable units or doing any tactical maneuvering on the sea.

Is there a way to tell how strong armies are in naval combat? I assume they don't use the same autoresolve combat strength for naval combat that they usenon land?

If there was more chance of units surviving naval fights I wouldnt be so gun shy about it but I feel like TWW2 is going to be just like previous titles, Im either going to ferry my army from land to land asap and nervously, or Im going to roll with a fleet so massive nothing could possibly threaten it.

Feels like a waste to have so much water and not be able to have any fun on it.

Maybe I just have to get good?

Does anyone have any other advice or tips for dealing with naval autoresolve in a reliable way?
MercytheMad on Youtube
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Comments

  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,781
    Only way to guarantee a victory really is never send a ship on it's own, make sure another backup one is following to reinforce. As it's based on autoresolve your skill as a player is largely irrelevant.

    They've been very sparing with the details on much of everything mechanics related to Game 2, I'm hoping something has been done to the naval autoresolve.
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • CnConradCnConrad Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,197
    The same way you deal with a legendary campaign.

    Don't make foolish choices. Don't use your full movement points in one click, be aware of your surroundings, don't send small weak armies off on their own.


    It's pretty basic stuff.
  • MerciiMercii Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 944
    edited August 2017
    If the naval strength of an army is different to the armies strength on land(and I think it should be) it would be useful if there was some kind of indicator or intuitive way of evaluating it in game.

    Another thing with naval travel is that im generally trying to do it as quickly as possible (ie forced march) so its difficult to scout ahead with agents since they cant force march.

    Also im reluctant to waste them by sending agents out to sea where they can't use skills or level up, and they take twice as many turns to scout as a solo lord would take due to forced march.

    Edit: @CnConrad -sorry was typing at same time.

    I am careful with my embarked forces - too careful, thats sort of my point. I feel like Naval battles are just too dangerous and difficult to predict so I'd never willingly engage in a naval war.

    I might take out a target of opportunity if I caught the AI out somehow but I'd bever build a strategy around naval combat.

    Seems kind of a waste to have so much water and avoid using it.

    I guess just wait and see what changes they make and try it out...
    Post edited by Mercii on
    MercytheMad on Youtube
  • Skarsnik_De_EmperorSkarsnik_De_Emperor Registered Users Posts: 1,832
    perhaps using heroes (esp. low level ones) to scout ahead like on the land
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,913
    This was one of my main arguments for naval combat...
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • endurendur Registered Users Posts: 4,076
    I don't think the naval auto resolve formula is any different from the land auto resolve formula.

    Still, I agree you need to be very careful with sea travel, as you can't rely on manual combat.
  • MerciiMercii Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 944
    If embedded heroes and Lords had a chance to "swim ashore" or something and respawn after a wipe that would be good maybe....or maybe that would be too much reduction of risk.

    It would be cool if they could somehow make that naval combat more tactical evenwith autoresolve.

    Maybe having some types of "ships agents", like scout ships that can't be caught by fleets and chaser ships that can set fire to rigging to slow down an army to help you catch them or get away from them.

    Stuff to make patrolling the seas fun and interesting.
    MercytheMad on Youtube
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 11,188
    Autoresolve only is an abomination.

    Either make battles controllable or dont have sea battles at all!
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • MerciiMercii Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 944
    I think you have to have at least autoresolve battles, they can't make ships invulnerable to attack.

    If the auto-resolve IS calculated the same on land as water then that is interesting. I assumed it would be different.

    Theres a good possibility this game will introduce naval units, but if not I guess you could use swordsmen stacks or something to make autoresolve battlefleets if you wanted a navy.

    Might as well use cost efficient autoresolve fodder.
    MercytheMad on Youtube
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    CnConrad said:

    The same way you deal with a legendary campaign.

    Don't make foolish choices. Don't use your full movement points in one click, be aware of your surroundings, don't send small weak armies off on their own.


    It's pretty basic stuff.

    Overmicroing enemy AI and winning unfavoured battle is a basic stuff. Being forced to take some unknown algorithm into consideration because rektarded autoresolve was done instead of naval battles ain't basic.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Registered Users Posts: 2,009
    I have no idea what the OP said.

    I'm just here to say I want Naval combat in warhammer. :lol:
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Registered Users Posts: 2,009
    @Mercii

    Hey what about the fact that attacking coasts is very inconvenient and even troublesome. You have to land first and then attack from land opening yourself up to reinforcements where the first intent was to attack from sea. You even take unnecessary attrition if it's a place with corruption.
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,575
    Make a couple escort fleets full of cheap units and then disband them when your main army has reached shore.

    Hopefully CA makes 1 unit of warships that requires naval building in ports just like heroes have capacity/require certain buildings to unlock.
    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 11,188
    HoneyBun said:

    CK2 makes ships immune to attack.

    It is a better solution than autoresolve.

    Naval combat would be even better.

    Dont care for mods but im not gonna have autoresolve only. So disappointed that CA doesnt get that autoresolve only is unacceptable.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • MerciiMercii Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 944
    @KGpoopy I know what you mean.


    I think in Rome II you could attack from water or from land or from both, with reinforcements from the other

    In this one don't think you can attack from water directly.

    The movement thing can be awkward, in some places you cant even land, particularly if there is an enemy with zone of control there as well.

    Normal landings end movement, you can move through your own settlements onto water with out penalty I believe, but that doesnt help when your the attacker.

    I've accepted its going to be autoresolve only but hoping they make a lot of tweaks for game 2.
    MercytheMad on Youtube
  • obippoobippo Member Registered Users Posts: 2,676
    No lord will die in autoresolve "naval" battles in my game. Whole naval battles are getting modded out of my game day 1.
    Always be aware when a Content Refusing Troll Brigade (CRTB) representative is near. Contact your local Witch Hunter for further info.


  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    Considering how badly modding is implemented so far (except mapmaking which is decent if not good) modding since day 1 would be a bad idea. For first 2 months patches will fly every 3 days and mods will just break Your game in so many ways...

    I really wish they make better modding framework (in a way similar to how child themes for web page templates work) so we can make changes regardles of what is changed in the base game.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 3,422
    edited August 2017
    obippo said:

    No lord will die in autoresolve "naval" battles in my game. Whole naval battles are getting modded out of my game day 1.

    nvm

    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806

    obippo said:

    No lord will die in autoresolve "naval" battles in my game. Whole naval battles are getting modded out of my game day 1.

    Didn't they say there would be some sort of mini game for naval battles ?
    Say what now? Please don't scare me like that...

    The only acceptable (yet still pretty bad) minigame would be something along the lines of Endless Space battles. Card-like system with several phases where You decide "general orders" for Your fleet.

    Still this would require battle visualization though, so why not make regular Naval Battles instead?
  • AwesomeLionAwesomeLion Member Registered Users Posts: 1,270
    Hoping characters only get wounded if they are part of an army if so.
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  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 3,422
    edited August 2017

    obippo said:

    No lord will die in autoresolve "naval" battles in my game. Whole naval battles are getting modded out of my game day 1.

    Didn't they say there would be some sort of mini game for naval battles ?
    Say what now? Please don't scare me like that...

    The only acceptable (yet still pretty bad) minigame would be something along the lines of Endless Space battles. Card-like system with several phases where You decide "general orders" for Your fleet.

    Still this would require battle visualization though, so why not make regular Naval Battles instead?
    Don't worry could be totally wrong and i am this what they said in the faq about it


    Is naval combat happening?

    Only in autoresolve. Warhammer Fantasy Battles is principally a game about land warfare, so that’s where we’re choosing to focus our efforts in terms of full battle simulation. There are some new sea-related campaign features that we will detail in the future.


    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.

    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Registered Users Posts: 2,009
    Mercii said:

    @KGpoopy I know what you mean.


    I think in Rome II you could attack from water or from land or from both, with reinforcements from the other

    In this one don't think you can attack from water directly.

    The movement thing can be awkward, in some places you cant even land, particularly if there is an enemy with zone of control there as well.

    Normal landings end movement, you can move through your own settlements onto water with out penalty I believe, but that doesnt help when your the attacker.

    I've accepted its going to be autoresolve only but hoping they make a lot of tweaks for game 2.

    I didn't even mention that you have to wait another turn to do anything after you land. So yeah, not only would naval battles be fun and one of a kind for this one, but also very useful lol
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,232
    Send agents on sea to scout enemy fleets, than decide.
  • CnConradCnConrad Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,197
    Fix sieges create minor settlement battles release every faction from Amazons to Nippon even add the dang Jabberwocky and the meaningless army painter.

    Then once all those things are done they can work on Navy battles.
  • TheHolyPilgrimTheHolyPilgrim Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 453
    Does anybody know if embarking troops will work like it did in Warhammer I, or will it be kind of like Medieval II where you could build different types of ships in order to transport your troops.

    I have a feeling it will be the former, but in previous videos by CA, it seemed as though the High Elves had different types of ships mulling about.
  • NyaxxyNyaxxy Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 222

    Does anybody know if embarking troops will work like it did in Warhammer I, or will it be kind of like Medieval II where you could build different types of ships in order to transport your troops.

    I have a feeling it will be the former, but in previous videos by CA, it seemed as though the High Elves had different types of ships mulling about.

    Same as warhammer 1. Pretty sure Al Bickham confirmed it in the Polygon video for the Skaven.

    He also said that it was an early decision to not do any navel combat outside of auto resolve. Which I don't overly care about but it would have been nice and I can certainly understand why people wanted it. But the reasons they give of "Warhammer only does land battles" for excluding it is a real lame excuse. Sure Games Workshop had a Naval Warhammer game way back in the day with units and everything. There is even a company right now making a naval game of it ( I think it is on steam early access) after they got the licencing rights to do so by Games Workshop. SO the whole naval warfare wasn't a thing in warhammer so we'd rather focus on the land battles is a bad excuse for an, uh... excuse. I think either they didn't have licencing permission to do naval battles for the Warhammer world as GW gave that to the other company to make their pirate game, or they didn't want to put resources and time into it for either financial or laziness. (more likely the former)
  • jhandjhand Registered Users Posts: 409
    It would be a lot more modeling. And you already have a lot of "new" for CA to model. Monsters, magic, flying, etc. Naval was probably one thing too many.
  • MrDarth0MrDarth0 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 229
    I can see naval battles as a (very) big DLC in the future, perhaps after Game 3 is released and we have the complete map of the world.

    But considering how many different ships CA would have to produce for all the factions, including some really weird ones, like the Beastmen or Skaven ships, this would be a very expensive DLC. Probably around 20 bucks at least.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Registered Users Posts: 2,009
    I will also confirm that you will not be able to recruit ships.

    Also CA never brings up warhammer sea battle licences. They have said multiple times that they considered doing naval battles, but they decided they wanted players to focus on land battles because warhammer is mainly about land battles. That excuse can be said about anything, any point in history, and any fantasy title.

    Man O' War and Dreadfleet extended warhammer fantasy with lore and sea battles. They have enough ships for total war, and enough lore for any ideas for more variation if CA would like to add more ships.

    It's all there on the table, but they just didn't want to extend that part of the game because of the apparent focus on land battles. I personally think the devs think it's not worth it. A comment from a member of the CRTB suggested such a thing, which got a like from a dev. So that tells me that they just wanted to put something out to the public that sounds positive like "we wanted to focus here" instead of a 100% honest reason which is "we didn't feel like it". It could be both for all we would truly know. Just going to have to wait for the historical game if the warhammer team still doesn't give a **** about it. Everytime it is brought up with a dev they don't sound too eager or interested, they just press hard on what they have done already, which is nothing. Which is a good tactic, but it doesn't speak well for additional content such as sea battles. :disappointed:

    The only thing I count on is a big expansion after or during the trilogy. Call me crazy.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,744
    KGpoopy said:

    I will also confirm that you will not be able to recruit ships.

    I hadn't seen the confirmation anywhere that you can't recruit naval ships. In fact, I found it weird that not a single streamer or site mentioned it at all. I'm not ever expecting actual battles, but was hoping for recruitable ships with auto-resolve. Were you part of the press group that played the game?
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