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Most (all of them to be honest) of augments for making Morathi chaos follower were discussed (and mostly repealed) earlier in this thread, so please look few pages back. No one likes to repeat himself over and over again just for sake of it.
You say that and yet Morathi is a Chaos worshiper ingame, clearly TCA (and probably GW) thought there was something to it. Nothing's been "repealed", you're just trying to offhandedly shut down people who disagree with you.
It was discussed this day, not month ago, not year ago, not ten years ago, but this day. Just read the thread. No one is trying to shut anyone, but those arguments have been discussed already. Read a few pages back. If you can counter it then dew it. I have nothing against it. But don't bring same thing over and over again. It's nothing ground braking since this conversation took some time and those things have been covered already. Just read first and write second. You've already ignored some of the previous posts answering you'r theories. Even answer for this particular post is there already.
I can go with Morathi spreading chaos corruption but as a drawback. Like, she spreads it and you have to manage it and try not to let it go too high. But as core "positive" mechanic that also applies to lords she recruits ? Nah it feels really wrong.
But if only that was it... no, she also has Death Hag from the Khainite cult spreading it too. Now that is some SERIOUS BS ! While we're at it, why not make Lizardmen spread chaos corruption aswell ? *CA* : Oh yeah that would be cool for diversity...
Yeah, its not just the fact that she spreads chaos its the entire lack of nuance in how they implemented it.
I could see Morathi and her Lords/Heroes spreading corruption with bonuses to their loyalty, but without any access to Cult of Khaine units.
This Cult of Pleasure Death Hags/Brides of Khaine nonsense is bleh....
Okay, this is a reasonable. Indeed, the Khainite cult should not spread Chaos corruption, and I also agree Morathi having her own selection of troops would have been a good idea.
I suggest to try and fight this battle, although it's hard to see CA making this kind of radical change. Still, it makes more sense than the whole "Morathi should not spread Chaos corruption", since she actually should in my opinion, and lore supports CA on this.
Good luck with removing chaos corruption after confederation with her other caster lords get bound spells Morathi skill tree is filled with chaos corruption spreading skills
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Also i don't see how the chaos corruption really benefits her faction her armies don't get the bonuses from the chaos corruption so it really only about public bonus and attrition of enemy armies which i am sorry is beyond dumb
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
So its a given now if you want to play Dark Elves in campaign, youre better off playing Morathi?
If you want to confederate and get both lords i assume it will be better since at least her skill tree won't be a hindrance
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
I confederated Morathi while playing Malekith around turn 50.
I can confirm the following:
Death Hag skills ("Cleanse Corruption" vs. "Spread Corruption") convert to the new Lord.
Buildings also convert. Morathi's chaos cult building converted into a public order building.
Corruption is still spread by Morathi's personal skills, but that is flavorful and easy to deal with. Dark Elves receive far more chaos corruption from all the Norscans and Beastmen herds wandering around.
I confederated Morathi while playing Malekith around turn 50.
I can confirm the following:
Death Hag skills ("Cleanse Corruption" vs. "Spread Corruption") convert to the new Lord.
Buildings also convert. Morathi's chaos cult building converted into a public order building.
Corruption is still spread by Morathi's personal skills, but that is flavorful and easy to deal with. Dark Elves receive far more chaos corruption from all the Norscans and Beastmen herds wandering around.
Makes sense her faction is closet slaaneshi worshippers(even has technologies Morathi's hags are not khanites that's for sure) looking at the public order building, of course confederating her with Malekith he would curb that nonsense since he prefers to have control and begins cleansing the corruption and the nobility. My only beef with Morathi is that she has great campaign skills her spell selection is meh.
Nagash: When Nagash reaches out to crush his enemies, it is with a million hands. When Nagash seeks out his prey, it is with a million eyes.....
Her skill trees is full of skill that spread chaos plus the +1 chaos corruption for each character is her lord skill quite silly really since it only makes chaos armies from the ritual and rebellions stronger and doesn't effect her armies in any way.I don't know how is this supposed to be a good thing for her they basically switched chaos corruption to give public order and the lack of it to effect it negatively for her faction and that's it.Also makes confederation a pain in the ass for Malekith honestly don't know what they were thinking with this mechanic for her.Also 3d ritual in there is no lore explanation as to why is the Slaaneshi cult back while have the whole elven pantheon it seems to me i was right and they just decided it will be just a"cool" way to please both crowds.In the end is a lazy ass copy of chaos mechanic made even worse by the fact that it benefits chaos enemies more than her faction don't know how anyone likes it.
Also Malekith gifting Morathi her weapons was a silly new addition to the lore too and they also give +5 chaos corruption to local province for some unknown reason now.In other lore nonsense Malkeith somehow manged to exile Morathi out of Ghrond without causing a civil war ok maybe that might happen somehow but she is somehow not only not mad at him but actively seeking his approval/favor.But hey they have GW behind their back they can't do no wrong to a character.
Post edited by HisShadowBG#8316 on
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
I confederated Morathi while playing Malekith around turn 50.
I can confirm the following:
Death Hag skills ("Cleanse Corruption" vs. "Spread Corruption") convert to the new Lord.
Buildings also convert. Morathi's chaos cult building converted into a public order building.
Corruption is still spread by Morathi's personal skills, but that is flavorful and easy to deal with. Dark Elves receive far more chaos corruption from all the Norscans and Beastmen herds wandering around.
Makes sense her faction is closet slaaneshi worshippers(even has technologies Morathi's hags are not khanites that's for sure) looking at the public order building, of course confederating her with Malekith he would curb that nonsense since he prefers to have control and begins cleansing the corruption and the nobility. My only beef with Morathi is that she has great campaign skills her spell selection is meh.
Honestly i would even have preferred they gave her only the dark magic tree instead at what we have now
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
I hated the 7th edition retcons that introduced a bunch of nobodies into the DE pantheon and replaced the link between the DE and Slaanesh. I thought it was poorly designed, even more poorly implemented and diminished Morathis character and importance.
It did nothing but replace the lore that was responsible for making Morathi and the DE popular in the first place.
That said, having her spreading Chaos corruption Willy nilly makes no sense to me.
Also one thing i find mostly funny i forgot is lord tolerance to cult of pleasure is what gives Morathi's faction the 20+ bonus in diplomacy
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
It is just completely stupid that Morathi's corruption mechanic which benefits her (and her talents are based around), works against her son, the witch king. The corruption mechanic should be either a drawback for her tampering with dhar and her talents would negate this corruption, or make a completely different "corruption mechanic" - Atharti/ pleasure cult influence which is required for public order (as is the chaos corruption at the moment). When playing Malekith, the best solution should not be to kill his mother, but rather to make her an ally (which doesn't spread chaos on nearby ally territory). Additionally dark elf units do not include any chaos elf units unique to the corruption spreading Morathi. The solution presented atm is completely anitclimatic weird and needs a rework either by the producer or by a mod.
It is just silly game mechanic wise, you can corrupt the whole DE land and just take their cities after they get raided by chaos and they still love you.
There should be a rift between the chaos elf and Dark elfs. but in-game nobody seems to care and making it awkward that the Ai "suicide" their own faction
I know I'm too late for the discussion, but I want to remind of another major point here: each Corruption type serves different purpose in its nature.
Vampire Corruption is there for better control of the territory and to balance out the ability to quickly raise a powerful army and the huge upkeep limiting the amount of the armies available. So in the end only the Vampires may freely move around the place while everyone else is significantly slowed down. It also helps to take a territory over, but that doesn't happen as often.
Skaven are, well, Skaven and represent the overpopulation that helps quickly summon more strike groups to infest more territory since Skaven don't really control the place, they just infest ruins.
And lastly, more importantly, Chaos is not about territory control. It's about denying the territory to anyone. It's about destroying the place and moving on while making sure it isn't too easy to just re-settle the freshly desolated lands. That's why the (almost) only source of the Chaos Corruption is from artifacts and monuments in the ruins - because it's not created for area control, but for area denial. The only exception, the Norsca, still use the monuments to spread the thing while destroying everything they happen to stumble upon. And the only possible exception are the harbors, used for more raids and destruction, and Faction Capitals, used to find more ways of destruction. And the thing that further ties their territory control to the Chaos is their core fantasy of destroying, plundering and pillaging, not stopping until they plunder enough and prove themselves to the Chaos God of their allegiance. They are just a part of the destruction.
On the other hand, Morathi has none of that. Her core fantasy is connected to cults of pleasure, yes, but it's more strongly connected to cruelty and slavery. And while slavery mechanic is present, it mysteriously has no ties with the corruption mechanics - the most obvious thing to tie them to!
Oh, and my biggest gameplay concern is yet another thing: Chaos has way easier passage through Morathi's lands than anyone else due to her Chaos corruption which is clearly an oversight. Since lack of Chaos Corruption serves and important gameplay purpose of impeding Chaos Warriors' advance.
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0 · Disagree AgreeI suggest to try and fight this battle, although it's hard to see CA making this kind of radical change. Still, it makes more sense than the whole "Morathi should not spread Chaos corruption", since she actually should in my opinion, and lore supports CA on this.
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1 · Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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1 · Disagree Agree-Sun Tzu
"Tolerance, Diversity, Strength"
- Seleucid
Team Chaos Dwarf
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeI can confirm the following:
Death Hag skills ("Cleanse Corruption" vs. "Spread Corruption") convert to the new Lord.
Buildings also convert. Morathi's chaos cult building converted into a public order building.
Corruption is still spread by Morathi's personal skills, but that is flavorful and easy to deal with. Dark Elves receive far more chaos corruption from all the Norscans and Beastmen herds wandering around.
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2 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeAlso Malekith gifting Morathi her weapons was a silly new addition to the lore too and they also give +5 chaos corruption to local province for some unknown reason now.In other lore nonsense Malkeith somehow manged to exile Morathi out of Ghrond without causing a civil war ok maybe that might happen somehow but she is somehow not only not mad at him but actively seeking his approval/favor.But hey they have GW behind their back they can't do no wrong to a character.
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
- Report
2 · Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeIt did nothing but replace the lore that was responsible for making Morathi and the DE popular in the first place.
That said, having her spreading Chaos corruption Willy nilly makes no sense to me.
- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeThere should be a rift between the chaos elf and Dark elfs. but in-game nobody seems to care and making it awkward that the Ai "suicide" their own faction
- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeVampire Corruption is there for better control of the territory and to balance out the ability to quickly raise a powerful army and the huge upkeep limiting the amount of the armies available. So in the end only the Vampires may freely move around the place while everyone else is significantly slowed down. It also helps to take a territory over, but that doesn't happen as often.
Skaven are, well, Skaven and represent the overpopulation that helps quickly summon more strike groups to infest more territory since Skaven don't really control the place, they just infest ruins.
And lastly, more importantly, Chaos is not about territory control. It's about denying the territory to anyone. It's about destroying the place and moving on while making sure it isn't too easy to just re-settle the freshly desolated lands. That's why the (almost) only source of the Chaos Corruption is from artifacts and monuments in the ruins - because it's not created for area control, but for area denial. The only exception, the Norsca, still use the monuments to spread the thing while destroying everything they happen to stumble upon. And the only possible exception are the harbors, used for more raids and destruction, and Faction Capitals, used to find more ways of destruction. And the thing that further ties their territory control to the Chaos is their core fantasy of destroying, plundering and pillaging, not stopping until they plunder enough and prove themselves to the Chaos God of their allegiance. They are just a part of the destruction.
On the other hand, Morathi has none of that. Her core fantasy is connected to cults of pleasure, yes, but it's more strongly connected to cruelty and slavery. And while slavery mechanic is present, it mysteriously has no ties with the corruption mechanics - the most obvious thing to tie them to!
Oh, and my biggest gameplay concern is yet another thing: Chaos has way easier passage through Morathi's lands than anyone else due to her Chaos corruption which is clearly an oversight. Since lack of Chaos Corruption serves and important gameplay purpose of impeding Chaos Warriors' advance.
- Report
1 · Disagree Agree