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Dark Elves Battle Let's Play

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  • josehtellez96josehtellez96 Registered Users Posts: 16
    Have you seen the ridiculous stats of the Khainite Assassin? 800 missile damage??!
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455

    Have you seen the ridiculous stats of the Khainite Assassin? 800 missile damage??!

    Low ammo, low weapon strength, low range, I wouldn't worry a whole lot. If he misses one too many times he won't do anything to anyone lol.
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • Horus168Horus168 Registered Users Posts: 578
    Seldkam said:

    Have you seen the ridiculous stats of the Khainite Assassin? 800 missile damage??!

    Low ammo, low weapon strength, low range, I wouldn't worry a whole lot. If he misses one too many times he won't do anything to anyone lol.
    Missile heros haven't been that good so far. It had to be something punchy so DE weren't short changed by skaven getting the melee assassin.
  • KatarianKatarian Registered Users Posts: 246
    Seldkam said:

    *Facepalm* those dark riders were the melee variant, they had shields not the xbow variant. It took at least 30 seconds for 2 of them to kill 1 he maybe lightly armored Archer unit.

    Dat Martial Prowess tho.

    They were shot by four units of Archers/Sea Guard and one of Ellyrian Reavers even before getting into combat. Once in melee combat they were constantly being shot by multiple other units some of them from the side or rear. Any light cavalry unit is going to melt under those conditions, even so the first Archer unit broke fairly quickly due to the charge and the other one wasn't charged properly. Darren then pulled the Dark Riders out of that combat and ended up charging a unit of Sea Guard. Under those circumstances they actually performed fairly well.
  • ThatRabidPotatoThatRabidPotato Member Registered Users Posts: 403
    Izariel said:

    Well, the high elves got slaughtered again in the latest video. It actually looked like they had a larger army than the DE, but the DE wiped them out easily. His army wasn't even that bad off when he won. It was just sad how easy it was. The Moon Dragon lasted about 10 second in battle before the narrator said he was almost finished then they easily killed it with the hydra. Just sad.

    That city defense should have easily been won by the high elves if they were up to par.

    I don't know what video you were watching, because in the video I watched DE light cav got rekt in melee by archers and every single Dark Elf unit was losing its melee fight until Murderous prowess came on. And even then it was still a close run thing. And that's with the AI controlling the HE.
  • Horus168Horus168 Registered Users Posts: 578

    Izariel said:

    Well, the high elves got slaughtered again in the latest video. It actually looked like they had a larger army than the DE, but the DE wiped them out easily. His army wasn't even that bad off when he won. It was just sad how easy it was. The Moon Dragon lasted about 10 second in battle before the narrator said he was almost finished then they easily killed it with the hydra. Just sad.

    That city defense should have easily been won by the high elves if they were up to par.

    I don't know what video you were watching, because in the video I watched DE light cav got rekt in melee by archers and every single Dark Elf unit was losing its melee fight until Murderous prowess came on. And even then it was still a close run thing. And that's with the AI controlling the HE.
    A few units of cold ones to take out the archers, using malekith and the assassin to kill the Asur lord, and using the witch elves to flank the spearmen while the black guard pinned them in place, and it would have been a DE steamroll though....
  • GalenHHHGalenHHH Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,233
    Horus168 said:

    Izariel said:

    Well, the high elves got slaughtered again in the latest video. It actually looked like they had a larger army than the DE, but the DE wiped them out easily. His army wasn't even that bad off when he won. It was just sad how easy it was. The Moon Dragon lasted about 10 second in battle before the narrator said he was almost finished then they easily killed it with the hydra. Just sad.

    That city defense should have easily been won by the high elves if they were up to par.

    I don't know what video you were watching, because in the video I watched DE light cav got rekt in melee by archers and every single Dark Elf unit was losing its melee fight until Murderous prowess came on. And even then it was still a close run thing. And that's with the AI controlling the HE.
    A few units of cold ones to take out the archers, using malekith and the assassin to kill the Asur lord, and using the witch elves to flank the spearmen while the black guard pinned them in place, and it would have been a DE steamroll though....
    There were no cold ones ,and if we start "what if" scenarios we should do the same for the HE dont you agree?
  • josehtellez96josehtellez96 Registered Users Posts: 16
    Seldkam said:

    Have you seen the ridiculous stats of the Khainite Assassin? 800 missile damage??!

    Low ammo, low weapon strength, low range, I wouldn't worry a whole lot. If he misses one too many times he won't do anything to anyone lol.
    50 ammo isn't by any means low tho, go check for example waystalkers. Even with that range, they seem to be one of the best heroes in the game stat-wise.
  • tuputamadretuputamadre Registered Users Posts: 109
    edited August 2017

    CnConrad said:

    Probably because the official color scheme is ****.

    Why would the moon and star Dragon be the same color?

    Edit: those are some of the ugliest things I have seen. They look like mecha snakes from the old Nintendo side scrollers.

    Please show off Your ignorance and complete disrespect for art somewhere else. Current GW models are nothing short of beautifull and Warhammer Community loves them - feel free to google opinions on Citadel Miniatures (this is division of GW that makes most models, the other division being Forge World) and their products.

    You have every right to not like them though, but You have no right to call them **** just because You don't like them. Actual artists made those and for the record they are still a lot better than Witch Elf anorexy and painted abs.
    Eh, the sculptor is Trish Morrison and she has always been awful at making reptilian beasts, the most infamous miniature of hers is the rat like dread saur from forgeworld, Her squigs and the brood horror are great though.
  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,897
    @Lord_Xelos, you're arguing for dragon colours to be accurate to those two models...

    Even though those two models that can be customized by the person to be whatever type of dragon they are fielding in TT. Minaithnir, Imrik's mount, is also blue, and being the strongest dragon awake is likely to be a Star Dragon (Last available in 6E so we don't know for sure on TT).

    But by all means, show us in the lore where it states what colour each of them are? Because I got the official Heraldry book for the HE and it says they can be any colour, it only notes that the older dragons colours are more faded and darker.

    Back to the Video:

    I was hoping for bombardment to also be a bit more like Fots. But that is a small thing compared to how damaging they can be, and I'm not entirely sure they were worthwhile - I suppose knowing their cost on the Ark will help. He did use all three types on one clump, but I think by the sounds of it only one was designed for bombarding into masses of infantry. Will check that again later.

    Bladewind still looking amazing. Hydra breath seemed to be less dangerous than I remember in the quest battles, but that is possibly due to poor enemy grouping.

    Overall nothing really makes me worried about the DE. They seem to be pretty strong and reliable and Murderous Prowess not too hard to trigger. Works well having it in a drawn out fight especially if they kept that +30% Vigour buff.



  • GrayserGrayser Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 314
    The hydra breath was used more efficiently on the routing HEs at the end, the first one was simply a case of thin lines.

    Like throwing wind of death through a unit head on 4 ranks deep, it still annihilated the routing blob in the end.
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065

    CnConrad said:

    Probably because the official color scheme is ****.

    Why would the moon and star Dragon be the same color?

    Edit: those are some of the ugliest things I have seen. They look like mecha snakes from the old Nintendo side scrollers.

    Please show off Your ignorance and complete disrespect for art somewhere else. Current GW models are nothing short of beautifull and Warhammer Community loves them - feel free to google opinions on Citadel Miniatures (this is division of GW that makes most models, the other division being Forge World) and their products.

    You have every right to not like them though, but You have no right to call them **** just because You don't like them. Actual artists made those and for the record they are still a lot better than Witch Elf anorexy and painted abs.
    the most infamous miniature of hers is the rat like dread saur from forgeworld
    Surely that bucktoothed Pegasus of her's back in 4th edition has to be in with a shout, there.
  • IxalmarisIxalmaris Registered Users Posts: 485
    Wow that was pathetic.

    Not only did the HE fold like wet paper, CA went extra cheap and made the flagship units of the HE, the dragons, simple recolours of the same model.

    Guess CA used up all the money animating the individual hairs on the Skaven and now there is nothing left for something so boring as the High Elf faction....
  • arcticmandalyarcticmandaly Registered Users Posts: 224
    Christ i dont think ive seen anything more whiny than HE players such a overreaction to everything .
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    Nemox said:

    Because I got the official Heraldry book for the HE and it says they can be any colour, it only notes that the older dragons colours are more faded and darker.

    Sun Dragon is Young
    Moon Dragon is Old
    Star Dragon is Ancient

    Does eye-hurting yellow color of the moon Dragon looks faded and darker to You??!! Does it even look halfway through??!! Because unless I'm color-blind which I am not, CA made him as bright as a freaking sun - LITERALLY!
  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,897
    edited August 2017

    Nemox said:

    Because I got the official Heraldry book for the HE and it says they can be any colour, it only notes that the older dragons colours are more faded and darker.

    Sun Dragon is Young
    Moon Dragon is Old
    Star Dragon is Ancient

    Does eye-hurting yellow color of the moon Dragon looks faded and darker to You??!! Does it even look halfway through??!! Because unless I'm color-blind which I am not, CA made him as bright as a freaking sun - LITERALLY!
    You might want to understand what Fading actually means when used in bright colours such as Yellows. The yellow of the moon dragon is not shining, it is a dulled tone compared to how bright yellows can be. It is certainly less in your face as the Suns Orange/Red.



    Compare the middle yellow to the top and right. The Dragon in the battle is more like the one to the right of the middle.
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    edited August 2017


    It is bright as anything! Bottom half is actually white and top half would be something in-betwen Your 6 and Your 7 which is damn shining gold color.

    Only darker colors are due to shadow under his wings (You know how lighting works right?).
    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065
    HoneyBun said:

    Horus168 said:

    CnConrad said:

    Official GW paintjob of Sun Dragon:


    Official GW paintjob of Star and Moon Dragon:


    So the one in the game is either Sun Dragon, or CA completely broke official color schemes.

    Probably because the official color scheme is ****.

    Why would the moon and star Dragon be the same color?


    Edit: those are some of the ugliest things I have seen. They look like mecha snakes from the old Nintendo side scrollers.
    To be fair, the models came a long way from 3rd ed

    God I wanted that model so much as a kid ...
    That's because Thaindon and Kargos is a great model.
  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,897
    edited August 2017



    It is bright as anything! Bottom half is actually white and top half would be something in-betwen Your 6 and Your 7 which is damn shining gold color.

    Only darker colors are due to shadow under his wings (You know how lighting works right?).

    Moon Dragons aren't the oldest, so it stands to reason their fading is far less noticeable than say a Star Dragon. But it is still yellow, a naturally bright colour on a map which has bright lighting...

    Dragons can be any colour in the lore (Caledor the Conquerors star dragon being red), you were wrong in your first statements, and now you're nitpicking to recover yourself and shifting blame to CA - because they must've fecked up the lore, not you!




    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065
    edited August 2017
    It'd be nice to be able to choose the colour of Dragons you recruit. Dragons vary wildly in colour and don't change colour with age, they just attain deeper hues of the colour with which of they born.

    A yellow "Moon Dragon" (god, those names are stupid) is fine.
  • MemnonSBMemnonSB Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 595
    Great video Darren -as always.Now You are one on the best person who made video about Total War. Maps,units, magic etc looks amazing-but still battle speed its dissapointed.5 min battle for high tier units?Definitly way too fast.
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    Nemox said:

    Moon Dragons aren't the oldest, so it stands to reason their fading is far less noticeable than say a Star Dragon. But it is still yellow, a naturally bright colour on a map which has bright lighting...

    Dragons can be any colour in the lore (Caledor the Conquerors star dragon being red), you were wrong in your first statements, and now you're nitpicking to recover yourself and shifting blame to CA - because they must've fecked up the lore, not you!

    Don't try to talk Your way out of this. So far You posted zero proof for Your statements and You were wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME.
    I posted official GW paintjob (+1 for me).
    I proven You the color of model in the game (+1 for me).
    You talked... A lot... Without sense, proof, reference or source pasted into topic (+0 for You).
    Nice try, discussion is over. Arguing with You is a waste of my time.
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065
    @Lord_Xelos - Out of interest, are you trying to argue that dragons actually change colour as they get older? Not just darken, but change from red to blue, for example?
  • Reaper49Reaper49 Registered Users Posts: 754
    Have you people lost your IQ? I wonder......you are argue for the balance of a battle that was to win before it even start. What you expected to see from this battle? Darren loose? Moon dragon whent directly to malekith and hydra with 1 unit of black guard near them. This was sucide attack from AI and even then dark elf army was far more better.
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    Reaper49 said:

    Have you people lost your IQ? I wonder......you are argue for the balance of a battle that was to win before it even start. What you expected to see from this battle? Darren loose?

    I'm wondering the same thing. Guess some people just want to cry "Poor HE so beaten every time and so weak!". I don't see anything wrong with the balance so no idea what they are seeing. Ghosts maybe? :D
    az88 said:

    @Lord_Xelos - Out of interest, are you trying to argue that dragons actually change colour as they get older? Not just darken, but change from red to blue, for example?

    I am only arguing againstCA not using official GW approved dragon colors but inventing their own. Funny thing is same people who are AGAINST adding Army Painter are also approving CA recolouring dragons as they see fit. Either give us army painter and agree that everything is custom or stick to official GW color schemes and don't go further than 1% away from those. That is my point here.
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065

    Reaper49 said:

    Have you people lost your IQ? I wonder......you are argue for the balance of a battle that was to win before it even start. What you expected to see from this battle? Darren loose?

    az88 said:

    @Lord_Xelos - Out of interest, are you trying to argue that dragons actually change colour as they get older? Not just darken, but change from red to blue, for example?

    I am only arguing againstCA not using official GW approved dragon colors but inventing their own. Funny thing is same people who are AGAINST adding Army Painter are also approving CA recolouring dragons as they see fit. Either give us army painter and agree that everything is custom or stick to official GW color schemes and don't go further than 1% away from those. That is my point here.
    There's no such thing as an "official" GW colour for Dragons - there's only the whim of the 'Eavy Metal team.

    Things like Space Marine chapters have colour schemes, but monsters never really have. GW are always very keen to stress to people that 'Eavy Metal miniatures are just examples and not canon.

    However, if you want GW painting justification for CA's choice, that's easy. Pick up the 7th or 8th edition HE army book. In both you have an example of an Arch Mage riding a yellow Moon Dragon. There's also a High Elf Prince riding an interestingly-coloured one...






  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,897
    edited August 2017

    Nemox said:

    Moon Dragons aren't the oldest, so it stands to reason their fading is far less noticeable than say a Star Dragon. But it is still yellow, a naturally bright colour on a map which has bright lighting...

    Dragons can be any colour in the lore (Caledor the Conquerors star dragon being red), you were wrong in your first statements, and now you're nitpicking to recover yourself and shifting blame to CA - because they must've fecked up the lore, not you!

    Don't try to talk Your way out of this. So far You posted zero proof for Your statements and You were wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME.
    I posted official GW paintjob (+1 for me).
    I proven You the color of model in the game (+1 for me).
    You talked... A lot... Without sense, proof, reference or source pasted into topic (+0 for You).
    Nice try, discussion is over. Arguing with You is a waste of my time.
    The irony considering that you were wrong with the statement dragons are specific colours (Contradicted by GW's own army colour supplement btw)

    The colour yellow is a bright colour naturally, in a bright battlemap, with a dulled yellow. By the way, do you know what colour yellow goes to by GW own description? It goes to Bold Ochre when they age to Star Dragon. Do you know what that is? It is a slightly darker version of the Moon Dragon as it is in game.

    You talk of proof, but even your own examples are contradicting you.

    I don't think you understood anything about proving points or what discussion actually means.




    Here's my proof by the way.
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    az88 said:

    However, if you want GW painting justification for CA's choice, that's easy. Pick up the 7th or 8th edition HE army book. In both you have an example of an Arch Mage riding a yellow Moon Dragon. There's also a High Elf Prince riding an interestingly-coloured one...

    Great thanks for confirming my point. You see, rules clearly state that Archmage can ride Sun Dragon at best. Moon Dragons and Star Dragonsnot are exlusive to Princes. Archmages got to ride Phoenixes instead. This means that even if Your pictures are official, the Yellow dragon is a Sun Dragon, which of course fits the lore.

    BUT

    If You can provide official source for this statement:
    az88 said:

    GW are always very keen to stress to people that 'Eavy Metal miniatures are just examples and not canon.

    I'll be happy to admit my overzealousness. Personally though I've never seen other themes for HE dragons than "red-orange-yellow" for Sun, "purple-blue-white" for Moon and "pure blue-white" for Star anywhere. And I played a lot of WFB tournaments back in the days.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Registered Users Posts: 2,539

    Lasted 4 minutes and 55 seconds and victory comes after almost every unit is spent.

    So CA are not taking the issue with battle design seriously; that they are tactically shallow and this causes them to last almost no time. It's almost impossible to achieve a heroic victory now because force-conservation is unviable, just flank, charge-cycle, nuke-cycle, repeat.

    You've been encouraged in every total war game to do this. No news
    Nonsense. Medieval 2 recorded not only the progress of generals through ranking but also by the type of tactics you used them for. If you used a general for force-conserving tactics which minimised causalities in order to break the opponent's will to fight, then you would increase that general's Chivalry. If instead you tried to end the battle quickly with lots of flanking, charging, running down fleeing opponents or shooting at them whilst they were engaged in melee- it would build that general's Dread and reduce any Chivalry they had.

    In Warhammer and other recent TW games, there is no choice- you can only win by playing in the style of a Dread general in Medieval 2 where tactics are very limited and causalities are almost always going to be high on both sides.
  • az88az88 Registered Users Posts: 3,065

    az88 said:

    However, if you want GW painting justification for CA's choice, that's easy. Pick up the 7th or 8th edition HE army book. In both you have an example of an Arch Mage riding a yellow Moon Dragon. There's also a High Elf Prince riding an interestingly-coloured one...

    Great thanks for confirming my point. You see, rules clearly state that Archmage can ride Sun Dragon at best. Moon Dragons and Star Dragonsnot are exlusive to Princes. Archmages got to ride Phoenixes instead. This means that even if Your pictures are official, the Yellow dragon is a Sun Dragon, which of course fits the lore.

    BUT

    If You can provide official source for this statement:
    az88 said:

    GW are always very keen to stress to people that 'Eavy Metal miniatures are just examples and not canon.

    I'll be happy to admit my overzealousness. Personally though I've never seen other themes for HE dragons than "red-orange-yellow" for Sun, "purple-blue-white" for Moon and "pure blue-white" for Star anywhere. And I played a lot of WFB tournaments back in the days.
    Odd. The Archmage model you're talking about was painted for the 7th edition army book. In that, the Archmage had the option to ride the Moon Dragon for 300 points. If you pick up a copy of White Dwarf 369 you can find the model described as an Arch Mage riding a Moon Dragon.
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