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NOT another "Naval Battles" thread...

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  • Herr_ArnulfeHerr_Arnulfe Registered Users Posts: 774

    CA gave that up for us. And never asked us for opinion. And besides wishing that karma does it's job, we can do nothing about it. Might at least do something about obvious nonsense, which is having half the game locked behind autoresolve button.

    Let's not be so gloomy about the situation. I'm sure TW:WH2 will still be fun. Maybe CA wanted to give Man 'O War: Corsair a chance to sell before superceding it with a superior all-in-one game, or maybe there were license considerations, or scheduling priorities. If they eventually release a navy DLC that applies to all 3 titles it could breath fresh life into the series just when the shine is starting to fade.
  • KobayashimaruKobayashimaru Member Registered Users Posts: 223
    They could get away with auto resolve in warhammer 1 where there was very little traveling on the sea. We shall see how will it play out in warhammer 2 where half of the map is ocean.

    I don't understand why licensing is a problem if naval warfare is implemented as autoresolve only, like pre-Empire TW. You could still build navies, but only autoresolve naval battles. That would not take away players from other GW licensed games with naval warfare and could be a decent compromise.

    For races that have limited or no navy capabilities (lore wise) implement mercenary ships or fleets (this game lacks mercenaries anyway).

    But I'm not very familiar with all this so maybe I'm missing on something.
  • RealnosuchnameRealnosuchname Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,495
    I would even prefer the old medieval 2 naval system over the current one. An army without boats should not be able to travel on sea. I really hate how armies get free transportships, naval battles have been **** since rome 2.
    Auto resolving has been hugely improvement in warhammer 2, its far better compared to the first one, but it still needs some tweaking, especially the dark elves.
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    DISCLAIMER: CA don't have any licensing issues. They straight ahead admitted in an interview that they DIDN'T WANT to acquire Man'O'War license, even though they could. Might safely assume same applies to Dreadfleet (this is the another Warhammer TT game with ships).

    So it's not us being gloomy. Reality created by CA is gloomy for us.

    And even if one day they decide that navies in Warhammer are interesting after all, there's still a matter of what to do until then. And autoresolving half of the game is beyond mental. Might as well create autoresolve for campaign turns...
  • BrakierBrakier Registered Users Posts: 1,756
    edited August 2017
    cant ca buy the 3d ships from warhammer corsair and use it in total war warhammer?

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,913
    that doesn't work... you can't transport 3d model from one game to another, unless they use the same engine/tools.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • BrakierBrakier Registered Users Posts: 1,756
    edited August 2017
    @SiWI i can understand that you cant just transfer a model whit attactment and animation done, but a 3d model whit texture should be doable right? mean, companies dont make thier own 3d programs right when tehy make 3d art.
    blender example

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,913
    Brakier said:

    @SiWI i can understand that you cant just transfer a model whit attactment and animation done, but a 3d model whit texture should be doable right? mean, companies dont make thier own 3d programs right when tehy make 3d art.
    blender example

    given how big those models are in Cossair I doubt that is feasible.

    Thou funny enough, there where unit cards found for ships (all base on MoW) that appear to be 3D model, which back then made me hopeful.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • BrakierBrakier Registered Users Posts: 1,756
    SiWI said:

    Brakier said:

    @SiWI i can understand that you cant just transfer a model whit attactment and animation done, but a 3d model whit texture should be doable right? mean, companies dont make thier own 3d programs right when tehy make 3d art.
    blender example

    given how big those models are in Cossair I doubt that is feasible.

    Thou funny enough, there where unit cards found for ships (all base on MoW) that appear to be 3D model, which back then made me hopeful.
    wait you saying warhammer corsair is the cut naval combat from total war warhammer made into its own game? that would been crazy

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,913
    Brakier said:

    SiWI said:

    Brakier said:

    @SiWI i can understand that you cant just transfer a model whit attactment and animation done, but a 3d model whit texture should be doable right? mean, companies dont make thier own 3d programs right when tehy make 3d art.
    blender example

    given how big those models are in Cossair I doubt that is feasible.

    Thou funny enough, there where unit cards found for ships (all base on MoW) that appear to be 3D model, which back then made me hopeful.
    wait you saying warhammer corsair is the cut naval combat from total war warhammer made into its own game? that would been crazy
    no...

    I say that CA made they own 3d models for the unit cards they made.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • BrakierBrakier Registered Users Posts: 1,756
  • KobayashimaruKobayashimaru Member Registered Users Posts: 223
    What about black arks? Aren't they protected under this licence and they still got implemented in game 2?

    It's only logical you'll be able to fight with them or attack them and auto resolve those battles. Also, you'll have to build them somewhere or spawn them somehow and they'll be able to move only on sea. Right? Taking that into consideration, I see how modders could use that to make other ships available and we could have modded-in auto resolve naval warfare. :)
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    Black Arks are floating "land hordes". They are fighting using land troops just like land armies.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,440
    edited August 2017
    I'm slowly getting used to the idea of not having any military ship. But I still hope the autoresolve feature will be tweaked for transport fleet meeting.

    Keeping the usual rule was fair for WH1, because the events were so, so rare. Not so much in the case of warhammer II

    To be quite clear, keeping the relative (and broken) strength of units for land battle won't cut it. I don't wish for a system that only counts the number of units either, but it's hard to gauge.

    That was the main advantage of dedicated military ships : transports were the baseline and the precious "cargo" that military ships were supposed to protect or destroy.
  • KobayashimaruKobayashimaru Member Registered Users Posts: 223

    Black Arks are floating "land hordes". They are fighting using land troops just like land armies.

    Bot how exactly does it work? Black ark always has a complement of troops which are then used in battle to calculate auto resolve outcome? Black ark ship stats play no part?
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806

    Black Arks are floating "land hordes". They are fighting using land troops just like land armies.

    Bot how exactly does it work? Black ark always has a complement of troops which are then used in battle to calculate auto resolve outcome? Black ark ship stats play no part?
    From what we know so far... Yeah!
  • TheGhostOfProman16TheGhostOfProman16 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,749
    Playable navy battles are not happening in this game CA has decreed it. They are beyond the point of changing their mind but we can atleast protest for a dedicated navy system just like Rome 1 and Med 2. The battles would be auto resolved still but each faction would have 3 ships but they all have different stats and costs. Imagine Elves having good cost effective ships and Dwarfs having good but very expensive ships

    CA has started the work for this in Warhammer 1 but obviously was cut during development. It really wouldn't require to much work for CA to do just add unit cards, stats, prices and add the ships to port buildings as navy only units
    Died during the great YOYO wars
  • KobayashimaruKobayashimaru Member Registered Users Posts: 223

    Black Arks are floating "land hordes". They are fighting using land troops just like land armies.

    Bot how exactly does it work? Black ark always has a complement of troops which are then used in

    Black Arks are floating "land hordes". They are fighting using land troops just like land armies.

    Bot how exactly does it work? Black ark always has a complement of troops which are then used in battle to calculate auto resolve outcome? Black ark ship stats play no part?
    From what we know so far... Yeah!
    Than it's even worse...
    I have a big bad ship, one of the most powerful ships in the world, but when it gets attacked it's always boarding action, the ship itself does nothing.
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,781
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=891509556&searchtext=ship

    Something like this might work. Obviously the modder is working with what he's got, but the principle of essentially a land battle with some impassable terrain made to look like two ships locked together is better than autoresolve.
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • KobayashimaruKobayashimaru Member Registered Users Posts: 223
    Arsenic said:

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=891509556&searchtext=ship

    Something like this might work. Obviously the modder is working with what he's got, but the principle of essentially a land battle with some impassable terrain made to look like two ships locked together is better than autoresolve.

    This looks rather good. It's hard to imagine 2 whole armies to fit on 2 ships, but ok.
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    edited August 2017

    Arsenic said:

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=891509556&searchtext=ship

    Something like this might work. Obviously the modder is working with what he's got, but the principle of essentially a land battle with some impassable terrain made to look like two ships locked together is better than autoresolve.

    This looks rather good. It's hard to imagine 2 whole armies to fit on 2 ships, but ok.
    This could work IF there was a way to make it a tactical fight. I mean, make every unit just few models big - this way one ship battle on this map represents in a way entire fleet of ships boarding and having similar fights.

    But as it looks now? With units so small it's basically a Black Ark sized ship with Tree of Life central mast in the middle... Nonsense scale...
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 5,224
    The only naval battles I liked were from fall of the samurai.
  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806

    The only naval battles I liked were from fall of the samurai.

    Those were AWESOME!! But Empire ones were cool too. They had that great feel of the era, with wind mechanics, different shots, broadfire, etc. Was good.
  • BrakierBrakier Registered Users Posts: 1,756
    @lord_xelos cant say i was good at naval combat, but i do love just sitting and watching the ship give full broadsides to eachother. its sad that ca didnt want to do it for total war warhammer, i can understand that its a huge cost, but the quality of the ships they did before was amazing so im unsure where the problem is, i would love to see warhammer themed ships blast eachother apart.

  • Herr_ArnulfeHerr_Arnulfe Registered Users Posts: 774

    DISCLAIMER: CA don't have any licensing issues. They straight ahead admitted in an interview that they DIDN'T WANT to acquire Man'O'War license, even though they could.

    Ah okay, I haven't been following the promo videos lately.

  • FloppingerFloppinger Registered Users Posts: 526
    Introducing the the two greatest naval powers in the Warhammer world without navies. Slick....

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