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So Morathi is back to worshipping Slaanesh?

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  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Posts: 1,093Registered Users
    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.
  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    No more absurd than your cherry-picking of current and past lore and manufacturing of a term that GW has never used.

    Again, simply baffled by your assertion that a war with supposed "Chaos Elves" would be a war to extinction but the war between High and Dark Elves is not.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Posts: 1,093Registered Users
    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.
    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.

    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Wait, Morathi did that in Storm of Chaos? I don't recall that at all. In fact, for everything but that in 6th I don't recall her being an open Chaos worshiper at all.

    Bolded the hilarious irony.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Posts: 1,093Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.

    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Wait, Morathi did that in Storm of Chaos? I don't recall that at all. In fact, for everything but that in 6th I don't recall her being an open Chaos worshiper at all.

    Bolded the hilarious irony.
    Defenders of Ulthuan series. 6th edition novels where she leads a Slaaneshi Chaos horde to invade Ulthuan, then tries to unravel to vortex and let Slaanesh into the world.

    Storm of Chaos happened later after she recovered from having Caledor shoot her with mind bullets. Ah 6th edition, so much better than 8th.
  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users
    That awkward moment when 7th edition came out in 2006 after Storm of Chaos and those books were published in 2007/2011?
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Posts: 1,093Registered Users

    That awkward moment when 7th edition came out in 2006 after Storm of Chaos and those books were published in 2007/2011?

    That awkward moment when you don't understand that events in a fictional universe don't happen in the same order they're written in the real world.

    That awkward moment when you don't understand that books take a long time to write and you can't completely change the story based on a lore update in an army book that hasn't even been written yet and won't be released for almost a year after your own novel hits the shelves.

    Keep being a snarky little kid though.

  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users
    That awkward moment when you have no idea when the novel actually happens in relation to the timeline (as in, you have no idea if it happens after Storm of Chaos or not) but then just throw it out because again, it fits your narrative.

    That awkward moment where the army book for 7th Edition came out in 2008. And yet the second book where the events you mentioned came out in 2011. Does she (along with Malekith) invade Ulthuan in the first book with an army of Slaaneshi marauders at her back? Absolutely, and I applaud you and everyone else for getting through that cringe writing. Does she attempt to unbind the Vortex in that book? Nawp.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users
    edited September 2017
    7th eidition was published 2008

    http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_Armies:_Dark_Elves_(7th_Edition)

    In 7th her plan to unbind/harvest the vortex is unchanged but she sure as hell does not want to do it cause she likes Slaanesh or chaos.And I suppose Malekith would like to do something similar in the game
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Posts: 1,093Registered Users

    That awkward moment when you have no idea when the novel actually happens in relation to the timeline (as in, you have no idea if it happens after Storm of Chaos or not) but then just throw it out because again, it fits your narrative.

    That awkward moment where the army book for 7th Edition came out in 2008. And yet the second book where the events you mentioned came out in 2011. Does she (along with Malekith) invade Ulthuan in the first book with an army of Slaaneshi marauders at her back? Absolutely, and I applaud you and everyone else for getting through that cringe writing. Does she attempt to unbind the Vortex in that book? Nawp.

    Please continue your meltdown. It's very amusing.

    Storm of Chaos was a campaign that took place in 2521-2522 during the reign of Karl Franz. Basically the same time as End Times. It couldn't have happened after Storm of Chaos because that's the end of time in the Warhammer Universe. Nothing happens after that because it's the current year.

    You think they're just going to completely rewrite the story for the second book in a series? No, they're going to maintain narrative consistency and stick with the same lore they started with.

    Carry on, my dude.

  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users
    The part about wanting to unbind vortex is true till 7th ed for sure since Tyrion and Teclis novels are set during the late 7th edition start of 8th edition.Don't know how it is in 8th since we don't have much fluff novel during it.So i suppose if they used 8th they will go by this

  • DolorousEddDolorousEdd Junior Member Posts: 555Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.
    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Except it was already said it is not her storyline. And yes they are making stuff up based on combined parts of established lore, that's why you got Vlad, Isabella and Norsca with the Fimir in.
    And Andy is not a "former GW writer". He IS a former GW writer, whether you like it or not.
    Team Dwarfs
    Team Bretonnia
    Team Crooked Moon
    Team Cult of Pleasure
    Team Clan Pestilens
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users
    edited September 2017
    I don't if it is appropriate to post this much of book (if so delete) but i will post her paragraph in the Prologue of Sword of Caledor Published November 27th 2012 by Games Workshop in hopes to make her motivations clear:


    Morathi, queen of the elves of Naggaroth, watched the tidal wave of flesh thunder towards her. Hundreds of thousands of feral warriors emerged out of the grim, grey wasteland, mounted on horses, drawn on chariots, carried by monsters, borne by their own booted feet. Enormous plumes of contaminated dust rose in their wake. Savage, sinister chants boomed out, audible even over the thunder of hooves and the turning of iron-bound wheels.
    The onrushing horde bore the marks of Chaos on their skin: the stigmata of mutation, the tattooed runes of evil magic. The banners of the Dark Gods fluttered in the chill wind that blew out from the uttermost north.
    Morathi moistened her lips with her tongue. Her spell of far-seeing allowed her to make out the smallest details if she focussed on them: the rings that pierced warped flesh, the blood that caked the spikes of black armour, the unholy fanaticism that glittered in every eye.
    How many times had she seen their like before, she wondered? How often had she encountered the followers of the Dark Gods since that first time more than six thousand years before? Her own legion trembled. They feared for their lives and rightly so. Compared to these deadly newcomers they were a flock of lambs in the path of a pack of wolves.
    She strode to the front of her force and stood beneath her unfurled banner. She raised one delicate and lovely fist in the air. Her musicians struck up. Trumpets sounded. Braziers were lit. Narcotic incense drifted on the wind.
    Her followers slowly deployed in the cold desert, a carnival procession in the midst of a slag-strewn wasteland. There were thousands of them, selected for their beauty and their erotic skills and their ability to endure the caresses of even the most repellent with a smile. Hers was not an army that could conquer anyone in battle nor was it expected to. Her son had legions of warriors who could kill and slaughter. This army would triumph in another way.
    It was just as well she was not expecting these pampered pets to fight, she thought. Most of these beautiful girls and boys could not hold a blade properly. Their talents ran in other directions, just as hers did. The difference between her and them was that she could do battle if she needed to and would if the necessity arose.
    She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
    The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
    Still, she felt no need to crow about those millennia-gone triumphs. She preferred to live in the moment. All across the world, she was known, feared and desired. Her reach was long, longer even than her son’s and quite as strong in its way.
    Malekith would learn to appreciate her again. He always did. At the moment, he was going through one of his independent phases, but he would learn soon enough that his followers were unreliable. At the end of the day, they were elven nobles and one of the things that made them so was the secret belief that they owed allegiance to none but themselves, and that no one was better or cleverer or stronger than they.
    It was ironic. Out of the whole self-satisfied race, only one really had been so unique, and Aenarion had not needed to prove it or boast about it. He had been respected, loved and feared as their son tried so hard to be and never would.
    Poor Aenarion. He would have been more than seven thousand years old today if he had lived, but he had turned down the immortality she had offered him to walk his own fatal path. It was one of those things that had made her hate him as well as love him.
    She glanced at the dreary land around her once again and the huge army of deformed barbarians moving towards her. She would need to act soon but she felt a strange lassitude. She let her thoughts drift back to her first husband. She could still picture him all too easily, tall and mighty, with his strange, sad eyes and that terrible blade glowing on his hip.
    Better to be ashes than dust he always said, and yet in the end there had been no hero’s pyre for him. He had walked into the fire and it had rejected him. Now his bones were dust that mingled with that of the millions his sword had killed. No one even knew where he had fallen in the end. She had looked many times and she had never found him.
    They said that Tethlis the Slayer had found his broken armour but there had been nothing in it. She could not believe that he had rotted away. She did not like to think about it either. She preferred to remember him as he had been, brutal and beautiful and burning like the sun. There had never been another elf like him and she did not know whether that made her sad or grateful.
    Poor Malekith, she thought. Her son had tried so hard to be like his lost father but he had never managed it. Malekith had his own cold genius, and he could make himself feared but never loved. He was stronger in some ways than Aenarion and certainly cleverer, but he lacked the fire that had made Aenarion what he was. He built empires as monuments to his desire to impress his absent father, a goal that defeated him even when he succeeded.
    Aenarion was not there to be impressed and his achievements could not be matched. Malekith did not even understand why. Aenarion was safely dead. The elves could project onto him their own idealised image of themselves and there was no awkward living being to contradict them with his inconvenient goals and desires.
    She sometimes wondered whether that was his appeal to her too. Their love, if love it had been, had not had time to grow stale, for her to learn to hate and despise him. She pushed that thought aside, not wanting to consider it.
    No, Aenarion was the one the elves would always remember, their first Phoenix King, the warrior demigod who had saved them from certain doom.
    Except, of course, that he had not.
    He won every battle and yet he would still have lost that ancient war, had it not been for his so-called friend, the Archmage Caledor Dragontamer. Caledor had been the architect of the spell that had finally driven the daemons away and stabilised Ulthuan, keeping its quake-ravaged lands from sinking below the sea.
    The elves choose to remember only the great battle and the heroism of Aenarion as he fought to protect you during those final hours, but it was you that saved the world, wasn’t it Caledor? You built the spell that drained magic from the world and sent the daemons back to hell.
    The Chaos army had noticed her now, as she had intended that they do. Even at this range, she could hear the bellowed threats and promises. They were so lacking in originality that she could not even muster any contempt. The worshippers of the Dark Gods were ultimately so banal that she struggled to keep her attention focused.
    It seemed to be a day to remember ancient times so she gave in to the desire. She thought about Caledor. With his gaunt features, his high balding forehead so unusual in an elf, his eyes cold and blue as a glacier in the Mountains of Frost, the master wizard had been as memorable as Aenarion. Perhaps he would have been a better tool than Aenarion. But no – he was too cold to be manipulated and far too clever, and she could not have loved him as she had loved Aenarion. Caledor was no hero.
    And yet in his calm, calculating way he had been as terrifyingly brave as her husband. In the end, he and his fellow archmages had laid down their lives to make their great spell work, knowing that it would bring them only death and worse. Their ghosts were trapped to this day, frozen in the eternal amber of the moment they had died by the power of the spell they had woven.
    Are you out there now, old ghost? Can you see me? Do you understand what I do and do you shiver at the thought? For millennia you have woven and re-woven your ancient fraying spell, and for millennia I have tried to unravel it. The day is fast approaching when I will succeed and this world will change forever.
    She felt her age sometimes. She had lived long enough to see the shape of continents change, to watch the great rivers of ice advance and retreat, grinding mountains down as they went. She had watched nations rise and fall. There had been times when she had given them a push. It kept her amused.
    She was perhaps the oldest living being in the world. Only the gods were older and they did not dwell in this place as she did and were not bound to it as she was.
    All of those around her were moving shadows, alive for a few flickering moments and then gone. How many were there now who remembered the days of ancient glory? Herself, her son, a few daemons and the mad ghosts who guarded creation from destruction and rebirth.
    It was a shadow-play but it afforded her some entertainment as she waited for the end of the world. She still pursued her pleasures as relentlessly as her son pursued his dreams of empire.
    It had all seemed so different when she was young. Then the world had been bright. The shadow of Chaos had not yet fallen on the land. The elves had been at peace. It had been disgustingly boring but she was too stupid and naive to know it.
    Or at least she had been until the visions came.
    They had been her gift from her eleventh year, tormenting her with glimpses of the apocalypse to come. She had seen the dark, daemon-haunted future and no one had believed her. She was a prophetess whose gift it was to see and yet not be heard. Or so it had seemed back then.
    The elves had not believed her visions of destruction because they could not believe her. Their lives had been so sheltered during the long golden reign of the first Everqueen that they had no idea of just how dreadful the world could be.
    She had told them and they had not listened, simply because they were incapable of understanding. They were cattle grazing in summer fields, unwilling to believe in slaughterhouses because they had not yet been inside of one. The sun was shining, the grass was tender, and their alien masters looked after them and fed them well.
    Long before the other elves had learned what the world was really like, she had known. She had seen the coming bloodbath and she had tried to warn them.
    And no one had believed her.
    Sometimes that thought could still outrage her. Mostly now it just amused her.
    She had tried everything to get their attention. She had prophesied, she had seduced, she had used her great beauty to get the attention of princes, of the Everqueen herself. No one had taken her warnings seriously, because they had not wanted to. Their world was golden and it was ending and they had wilfully blinded themselves to its coming destruction. They had been taken by surprise when the daemons of Chaos came and the Old Ones had fled or been destroyed.
    None of the people who had refused to believe her were alive now and she was. She would live forever and she would remake this world in her own image. The day would soon be here when she was a goddess and these barbarians would help her bring that dawn.
    The huge metallic arm of a daemon-forged siege engine sent an enormous boulder arcing towards her. The rock hit the ground a hundred strides ahead of where she stood, bounced forward and came to rest not too far from her feet. It was close enough so that she could see the cursed runes scratched on it. Behind her, her legion moaned with anticipatory terror. She knew they only stood their ground because she did.
    They were among those who worshipped her and adored her as something like divine. But that was not what she wanted. She did not wish merely for the empty gratification of her ego, although she enjoyed it. She desired the real, actual power of a god and she knew how to get it. All she had to do was destroy Caledor’s masterwork, the Vortex.
    Her visions had shown her that too. In the beginning, the knowledge had horrified her. She had thought that daemons sent them. She thought what she saw was evil beyond imagining, but over the long lonely years she had come to see the power of the daemons as well as their horror. She had realised that they too could be manipulated and used and bound to her will.
    Knowing the end was coming, she had prepared for it. She had sought out all manner of forbidden knowledge. She had made pacts with the enemies of her people while the sun still shone and the invasion was merely the tiniest cloud on the horizon. If her folk would not help themselves, the best she could do was ensure her own survival.
    It was strange how in all of those tormenting visions she had never seen Aenarion. Perhaps if she had, things might have been different. She might have been different. But she had already walked a long way down a dark road when she met him and it was far too late to turn back, even if she had really wanted to.
    He was famous then and mighty beyond all others, a grim, mortal god with haunted eyes. He had believed in her visions too. It was easy then, for they had all come true. And oddest of all, he had not wanted her. He did not abase himself before her beauty. He looked at her and saw just another elf woman.
    His indifference had been a gauntlet thrown in her face, a challenge she could not back away from. She had set herself to win him, to woo him from his grief, to bring him over to her cause. And the oddest alchemy of all had been the trick fate had played on her. In pretending love, she had discovered the real thing. In trying to snare him, she had snared only herself.
    She laughed at the irony of it. The sweet malice of her voice attracted the attention of her followers. She smiled at them, enjoying the fact that they did not understand, taking pleasure in their pleasure at the sight of her. They thought she was laughing at the oncoming horde, and it heartened them.
    She had won Aenarion over in the end, but he had never loved her as she loved him. He was not capable of it. His dead Everqueen and his lost children filled his heart with gall. He was too lost in his own black grief and his dark desire for revenge. It had consumed him in the end. It had threatened to consume the world.
    The barbarians laughed now too at the sight of the force they thought opposed them. Their laughter was bright, mad and cruel and it sounded so like the mirth that echoed through the towers of Naggarond that it was chilling. These humans had much in common with the elves of Naggaroth. Their Dark Gods had taught them well.
    Briefly she considered the fact that she might die here, that her visions might be wrong, that the lords of Chaos might for their own reasons have decided to stamp on her face and end her immortal existence.
    Part of her would honestly have welcomed it. She was sometimes weary unto death of the ways of this world, and longed to see what might wait on the other side of death’s dark doorway. Unfortunately, she had a good idea of what waited for her and those like her. In the endless night of the Realm of Chaos, the daemon lords lusted to devour the souls of her people. She would make a particularly tasty morsel for them, a soul fattened on millennia of sin. No, she was not keen to undergo that ultimate experience just yet.
    She called for her mount. It was led to her by nervous grooms, a coal-black, burning-eyed hell-steed with enormous folded wings. Mist emerged from its nostrils, suggestive of the poisonous gas vented by the chasms of this unwelcoming place. It greeted her, eyes blazing with lust and hatred and a curious, twisted love. She stroked its cheek and it whinnied with pleasure from the spells woven into her hands. She vaulted onto its back and rode towards the Chaos horde, her mount becoming airborne after a dozen strides.
    She heard her own followers gasp in wonder and fear. Perhaps they thought she was abandoning them to their fate and, for a moment, her malicious elven mind considered it, but she was too wise to do so merely to gratify a whim of the moment. Instead she soared above the oncoming tide of warriors, allowing them to view her half-naked form and luxuriate in the aura of unbridled, wanton lust that she projected. Ancient spells amplified the effects of her matchless beauty. All who looked on her groaned with desire.
    She landed her steed defiantly in front of the chieftains of the horde, touching her heels to its flanks so that it reared and whinnied. A dozen brutal faces inspected her, a dozen muscular, mutated bodies stiffened with lust.
    She paused for a moment to let them examine her as she examined them. They were powerful but primitive and they were already responding, although they did not know it, to the ancient sorceries surrounding her. She smiled at them and they smiled back and licked their lips, and she knew that in that moment, she had them in the palm of her hand.
    She dismounted, showing no fear, and strode towards them, and they waited expectantly to hear what she had to say, as they would have if a messenger from their Dark Gods had descended in their midst. It was a role she was perfectly suited to play. She carried herself with the imperiousness of one who had ruled for nearly seven millennia and who expected homage as her right.
    She had much to offer them, and they to offer her, and she was sure that a pact could be made with them. She would divert them from their drift southward into the lands of Men and offer them a much more tempting prize, the island-continent of Ulthuan. Her son saw it as part of a plan to put him back on his rightful throne, which it was, but she had reasons of her own as well.
    The end of time was coming. She would begin the unmaking of the world soon, as a necessary prelude to its reshaping. The time of her ascension was close. Soon the daemons would return and the time of mortals would be at an end. New gods would be born. She intended to make sure that she was one of them.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    edited September 2017

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.

    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Wait, Morathi did that in Storm of Chaos? I don't recall that at all. In fact, for everything but that in 6th I don't recall her being an open Chaos worshiper at all.

    Bolded the hilarious irony.
    Defenders of Ulthuan series. 6th edition novels where she leads a Slaaneshi Chaos horde to invade Ulthuan, then tries to unravel to vortex and let Slaanesh into the world.

    Storm of Chaos happened later after she recovered from having Caledor shoot her with mind bullets. Ah 6th edition, so much better than 8th.
    Defenders of Ulthuan was also a contained story set during a new invasion of Ulthuan, not one that the Army Books ever documented. Know why? Because in that battle Malekith loses his shield and his dragon is crippled. In the Malus novels Hellebron is never mentioned ruling Har Ganeth, yet she is in the 6E army book. The Army Books are always the main source of lore for races - normally whether we like it or not.

    But this is still besides the point, I am allowed to have a preference and opinion, and I preferred 6E lore because it was when I collected Warhammer along with my friends. I don't mind Morathi being a powerful and flawed character then, it surely beats her being a lovestruck girl who spends more time sabotaging the Dark Elves just so she can sleep with Tyrion... But again, that is MY opinion.

    The fact is Andy Hall is a former GW writer and he is writing for CA. Malekith and Morathi share the same end goal in the ritual and nothing you bitch about matters against that. GW decide the lore, not you.

    Deal with it.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users
    edited September 2017
    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.

    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Wait, Morathi did that in Storm of Chaos? I don't recall that at all. In fact, for everything but that in 6th I don't recall her being an open Chaos worshiper at all.

    Bolded the hilarious irony.
    Defenders of Ulthuan series. 6th edition novels where she leads a Slaaneshi Chaos horde to invade Ulthuan, then tries to unravel to vortex and let Slaanesh into the world.

    Storm of Chaos happened later after she recovered from having Caledor shoot her with mind bullets. Ah 6th edition, so much better than 8th.
    Defenders of Ulthuan was also a contained story set during a new invasion of Ulthuan, not one that the Army Books ever documented. Know why? Because in that battle Malekith loses his shield and his dragon is crippled. In the Malus novels Hellebron is never mentioned ruling Har Ganeth, yet she is in the 6E army book. The Army Books are always the main source of lore for races - normally whether we like it or not.

    But this is still besides the point, I am allowed to have a preference and opinion, and I preferred 6E lore because it was when I collected Warhammer along with my friends. I don't mind Morathi being a powerful and flawed character then, it surely beats her being a lovestruck girl who spends more time sabotaging the Dark Elves just so she can sleep with Tyrion... But again, that is MY opinion.

    The fact is Andy Hall is a former GW writer and he is writing for CA. Malekith and Morathi share the same end goal in the ritual and nothing you bitch about matters against that. GW decide the lore, not you.

    Deal with it.
    In no lore armybook or otherwise does she spread terrain corruption like in the game so it remains to be seen what is the reasoning behind it.And in both 7th and 8th edition her followers are not Slaaneshi for sure
    Post edited by HisShadowBG on
  • EquixEquix Posts: 624Registered Users
    CA should understand dark elves is not Chaos Elves for many old TT players, they are ruining my favorite faction
  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users
    edited September 2017

    That awkward moment when you have no idea when the novel actually happens in relation to the timeline (as in, you have no idea if it happens after Storm of Chaos or not) but then just throw it out because again, it fits your narrative.

    That awkward moment where the army book for 7th Edition came out in 2008. And yet the second book where the events you mentioned came out in 2011. Does she (along with Malekith) invade Ulthuan in the first book with an army of Slaaneshi marauders at her back? Absolutely, and I applaud you and everyone else for getting through that cringe writing. Does she attempt to unbind the Vortex in that book? Nawp.

    Please continue your meltdown. It's very amusing.

    Storm of Chaos was a campaign that took place in 2521-2522 during the reign of Karl Franz. Basically the same time as End Times. It couldn't have happened after Storm of Chaos because that's the end of time in the Warhammer Universe. Nothing happens after that because it's the current year.

    You think they're just going to completely rewrite the story for the second book in a series? No, they're going to maintain narrative consistency and stick with the same lore they started with.

    Carry on, my dude.

    My meltdown? Sounds like you're the one that needs to chill with these remarks lol. Regardless, outside of that one novel never addressed in any other source (since honestly the novels were really meant to highlight the High Elves more than anything) I don't really read much into it. Its literally a couple of novels where the High Elves suffer no tragedy whatsoever and the Dark Elves lose literally everything.

    I find it extremely hard to believe that Morathi recovers from what is essentially the destruction of her mind so badly that her soul is apparently left "bleeding" and Malekith's dragon is left blinded and crippled with him losing his shield (imbued with the rune of Slaanesh) and left bleeding in the saddle. And then Storm of Chaos happened not long after?
    Equix said:

    CA should understand dark elves is not Chaos Elves for many old TT players, they are ruining my favorite faction

    Uh, except for many "old TT players" Chaos had a much greater influence on Dark Elves than they did in 7th and 8th which are pretty recent?

    Again, we get it. You don't like Chaos.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users
    edited September 2017
    The reason i post quotes from is cause It seem likely to me they used them as a lore reference since Blood of Aenerion the first book of the series e-book is given for free along with Malekth form The Soundering trilogy in SERPENT GOD EDITION .Now maybe i read to much into that but since we have no other info i assume stuff
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.

    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Wait, Morathi did that in Storm of Chaos? I don't recall that at all. In fact, for everything but that in 6th I don't recall her being an open Chaos worshiper at all.

    Bolded the hilarious irony.
    Defenders of Ulthuan series. 6th edition novels where she leads a Slaaneshi Chaos horde to invade Ulthuan, then tries to unravel to vortex and let Slaanesh into the world.

    Storm of Chaos happened later after she recovered from having Caledor shoot her with mind bullets. Ah 6th edition, so much better than 8th.
    Defenders of Ulthuan was also a contained story set during a new invasion of Ulthuan, not one that the Army Books ever documented. Know why? Because in that battle Malekith loses his shield and his dragon is crippled. In the Malus novels Hellebron is never mentioned ruling Har Ganeth, yet she is in the 6E army book. The Army Books are always the main source of lore for races - normally whether we like it or not.

    But this is still besides the point, I am allowed to have a preference and opinion, and I preferred 6E lore because it was when I collected Warhammer along with my friends. I don't mind Morathi being a powerful and flawed character then, it surely beats her being a lovestruck girl who spends more time sabotaging the Dark Elves just so she can sleep with Tyrion... But again, that is MY opinion.

    The fact is Andy Hall is a former GW writer and he is writing for CA. Malekith and Morathi share the same end goal in the ritual and nothing you bitch about matters against that. GW decide the lore, not you.

    Deal with it.
    In no lore armybook or otherwise does she spread terrain corruption like in the game so it remains to be seen what is there reasoning behind it.And in both 7th and 8th edition her followers are not Slaaneshi for sure
    True Dhar counts as terrain corruption. At worst CA are just lazy re-using chaos corruption for her.
  • DolorousEddDolorousEdd Junior Member Posts: 555Registered Users
    Equix said:

    CA should understand dark elves is not Chaos Elves for many old TT players, they are ruining my favorite faction

    Don't be a drama queen. Geesh, Elven fans are really whiny all across the board.
    It is only Morathi's subfaction. The Dark Elves are not "ruined".
    I'm starting to think we need a Chaos Dwarfs - Where's the love?? equivalent to this thread.
    Team Dwarfs
    Team Bretonnia
    Team Crooked Moon
    Team Cult of Pleasure
    Team Clan Pestilens
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Posts: 1,093Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.
    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Except it was already said it is not her storyline. And yes they are making stuff up based on combined parts of established lore, that's why you got Vlad, Isabella and Norsca with the Fimir in.
    And Andy is not a "former GW writer". He IS a former GW writer, whether you like it or not.
    I'm not sure how those are in any way comparable?

    Vlad and Isabella are vampires and can technically be brought back by anyone who can get their hands on part of their corpses. Doing so doesn't alter anything except End Time events, which they've said won't be part of the game, as it is set in the current year of 8th edition before those events take place. This doesn't violate anything in the lore.

    Morathi though? They're mashing things together to create a different character with motivations and actions that never existed. I could understand going with 6th, even if I think it wasn't well written and logically inconsistent, but at some point you've made so many changes that you're crossing over into inventing a new character with the name of an old one. That's worse than using an outdated story.

    6th -> Slaanesh cultist who would betray Malekith for Slaanesh.
    8th -> Loyal to Malekith and doesn't worship Slaanesh at all.

    Pick one and stick with it so that your storyline is logically coherent.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users
    edited September 2017
    True Dhar counts as terrain corruption. At worst CA are just lazy re-using chaos corruption for her.


    I don't recall any mentions of her spreading that either isn't it a more of a natural occurrence

    True Dhar
    But Dark Magic can form of its own volition through human spellcraft. Collecting in bleak places, near lodes of warpstone or corrupted lands, it is this form that many of the Colleges of Magic refer to as True Dhar. Dhar that forms by itself is the most terrifying and dangerous of all Aethyric energy manifest upon the mortal plane.

    Like the eight individual Winds of Magic, True Dhar is separate and exists outside of mortal interference. Dhar is a careless mix of all the colours of magic in an area, used for maximum and swiftest effect. True Dhar, however, is not just the process of using the pure colours of magic in an unbalanced way; instead, it’s an independently existent stagnant pool of all the Winds of Magic. True Dhar, then, is perhaps best described as the result of all the colours of magic in a particular area swirling and merging together under the pressure of physical reality, coagulating and stagnating in a metaphysical sense. Within True Dhar, none of the eight colours of magic retain any independent identity

    Theories on Formation
    Although those who study this heinous form of magic regard it as a kind of corruption of settled and undisturbed magic, they are not absolutely certain as to how it forms, even if they feel certain as to the why. The most popular theory, presented by the combined works of the Light and Gold Colleges, is that just as there are areas of the mortal world where the Winds of Magic are particularly dynamic, and there are also areas where the Winds of Magic cease to blow regularly but where the Great Vortex of Ulthuan doesn’t touch strongly enough. In these areas of isolation, the colours of magic slowly combine into immaterial pools. It is in these areas where True Dhar is thought to begin forming by a process that could be described as Aethyric stagnation.

    This darkest magic could be described as magical energy that has become trapped within particular parts of the mortal world where it cannot leak out or be stirred up by either the Great Vortex or the Aethyric Winds and has lost its creative vitality. True Dhar could be seen as Aethyric energy that smothers physical things, breaking them down into their component parts, only to crush them into a new form. Once this true Dark Magic has formed, no amount of agitation or use can ever purify it again — it remains perpetually soured, dark, and destructive.

  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    edited September 2017

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.
    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Except it was already said it is not her storyline. And yes they are making stuff up based on combined parts of established lore, that's why you got Vlad, Isabella and Norsca with the Fimir in.
    And Andy is not a "former GW writer". He IS a former GW writer, whether you like it or not.
    I'm not sure how those are in any way comparable?

    Vlad and Isabella are vampires and can technically be brought back by anyone who can get their hands on part of their corpses. Doing so doesn't alter anything except End Time events, which they've said won't be part of the game, as it is set in the current year of 8th edition before those events take place. This doesn't violate anything in the lore.

    Morathi though? They're mashing things together to create a different character with motivations and actions that never existed. I could understand going with 6th, even if I think it wasn't well written and logically inconsistent, but at some point you've made so many changes that you're crossing over into inventing a new character with the name of an old one. That's worse than using an outdated story.

    6th -> Slaanesh cultist who would betray Malekith for Slaanesh.
    8th -> Loyal to Malekith and doesn't worship Slaanesh at all.

    Pick one and stick with it so that your storyline is logically coherent.
    In 6E Morathi was dedicated to Malekith , and it was only Malekith who was likely to turn against her. Both me and HisShadowBG posted two quotes from 6E that support that.

    True Dhar counts as terrain corruption. At worst CA are just lazy re-using chaos corruption for her.


    I don't recall any mentions of her spreading that either isn't i a more of natural occurrence

    True Dhar
    But Dark Magic can form of its own volition through human spellcraft. Collecting in bleak places, near lodes of warpstone or corrupted lands, it is this form that many of the Colleges of Magic refer to as True Dhar. Dhar that forms by itself is the most terrifying and dangerous of all Aethyric energy manifest upon the mortal plane.[1c]

    Like the eight individual Winds of Magic, True Dhar is separate and exists outside of mortal interference. Dhar is a careless mix of all the colours of magic in an area, used for maximum and swiftest effect. True Dhar, however, is not just the process of using the pure colours of magic in an unbalanced way; instead, it’s an independently existent stagnant pool of all the Winds of Magic. True Dhar, then, is perhaps best described as the result of all the colours of magic in a particular area swirling and merging together under the pressure of physical reality, coagulating and stagnating in a metaphysical sense. Within True Dhar, none of the eight colours of magic retain any independent identity

    Theories on Formation
    Although those who study this heinous form of magic regard it as a kind of corruption of settled and undisturbed magic, they are not absolutely certain as to how it forms, even if they feel certain as to the why. The most popular theory, presented by the combined works of the Light and Gold Colleges, is that just as there are areas of the mortal world where the Winds of Magic are particularly dynamic, and there are also areas where the Winds of Magic cease to blow regularly but where the Great Vortex of Ulthuan doesn’t touch strongly enough. In these areas of isolation, the colours of magic slowly combine into immaterial pools. It is in these areas where True Dhar is thought to begin forming by a process that could be described as Aethyric stagnation.

    This darkest magic could be described as magical energy that has become trapped within particular parts of the mortal world where it cannot leak out or be stirred up by either the Great Vortex or the Aethyric Winds and has lost its creative vitality. True Dhar could be seen as Aethyric energy that smothers physical things, breaking them down into their component parts, only to crush them into a new form. Once this true Dark Magic has formed, no amount of agitation or use can ever purify it again — it remains perpetually soured, dark, and destructive.

    The Dark Elves turned their Wardstones into fonts of True Dhar to empower their magics. I think that was in 8E or 7E? I'm sorry, I'll check later for where the quote was about that.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    edited September 2017
  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users
    Uhhh

    6th -> Mix of Khaine and Slaanesh who doesn't betray Malekith (outside of a couple of stand-alone novels where she tries to unbind the Great Vortex) who openly declares for Slaanesh in SoC but still doesn't betray Malekith

    8th -> Plots to unbind the Vortex and become a Goddess when Chaos washes over the world, abandons Malekith in their invasion of Ulthuan because Caledor warns her he won't allow her plans to succeed, ruins Urian Poisonblade's chance to kill Tyrion, results in Malekith being beaten in a magical duel by Teclis and throwing himself into the Realm of Chaos to escape Asuryan's vengeance, and then tries to replace Malekith with Tyrion by trying to get him to draw the Widowmaker at the Blighted Isle while Malekith is MIA.

    Oh ye so loyal.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Posts: 1,093Registered Users
    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.

    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Wait, Morathi did that in Storm of Chaos? I don't recall that at all. In fact, for everything but that in 6th I don't recall her being an open Chaos worshiper at all.

    Bolded the hilarious irony.
    Defenders of Ulthuan series. 6th edition novels where she leads a Slaaneshi Chaos horde to invade Ulthuan, then tries to unravel to vortex and let Slaanesh into the world.

    Storm of Chaos happened later after she recovered from having Caledor shoot her with mind bullets. Ah 6th edition, so much better than 8th.
    Defenders of Ulthuan was also a contained story set during a new invasion of Ulthuan, not one that the Army Books ever documented. Know why? Because in that battle Malekith loses his shield and his dragon is crippled. In the Malus novels Hellebron is never mentioned ruling Har Ganeth, yet she is in the 6E army book. The Army Books are always the main source of lore for races - normally whether we like it or not.

    But this is still besides the point, I am allowed to have a preference and opinion, and I preferred 6E lore because it was when I collected Warhammer along with my friends. I don't mind Morathi being a powerful and flawed character then, it surely beats her being a lovestruck girl who spends more time sabotaging the Dark Elves just so she can sleep with Tyrion... But again, that is MY opinion.

    The fact is Andy Hall is a former GW writer and he is writing for CA. Malekith and Morathi share the same end goal in the ritual and nothing you bitch about matters against that. GW decide the lore, not you.

    Deal with it.
    So a new war they decided to add years after the 6th edition army book was published isn't real because it's not in the army book that was written years before the novel? Am I following you correctly?

    I imagine they would have added it in the 7th edition army book if the entire existence of the Cult of Slaanesh that it's based on hadn't been retconned.

    This isn't even about 6th vs 8th. It's about people who want 6th not even being willing to stick with the story they're claiming to want. You want her to be a Chaos cultist, but don't want anything that comes along with it. You want 6th edition lore but you want to ignore that she's only feigning loyalty to Malekith and tries to end the world to gain the favor of Slaanesh.


  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users

    Uhhh

    6th -> Mix of Khaine and Slaanesh who doesn't betray Malekith (outside of a couple of stand-alone novels where she tries to unbind the Great Vortex) who openly declares for Slaanesh in SoC but still doesn't betray Malekith

    8th -> Plots to unbind the Vortex and become a Goddess when Chaos washes over the world, abandons Malekith in their invasion of Ulthuan because Caledor warns her he won't allow her plans to succeed, ruins Urian Poisonblade's chance to kill Tyrion, results in Malekith being beaten in a magical duel by Teclis and throwing himself into the Realm of Chaos to escape Asuryan's vengeance, and then tries to replace Malekith with Tyrion by trying to get him to draw the Widowmaker at the Blighted Isle while Malekith is MIA.

    Oh ye so loyal.

    I think the idea of the Dark Elves not being loyal is probably the most true to lore thing imaginable. Hell, they get loyalty as well as Skaven because of that!

    But yeah, Morathi certainly was more pro Druchii State in 6E, and more "I want my Aenarion!" in 8E. Both editions had their flaws, thanks to GW, but meh, we gravitate to the ones we fell in love with. 6E made me collect Dark Elves, I can never fault it for that...

    Those Nauglir Knights were just the best.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.

    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Wait, Morathi did that in Storm of Chaos? I don't recall that at all. In fact, for everything but that in 6th I don't recall her being an open Chaos worshiper at all.

    Bolded the hilarious irony.
    Defenders of Ulthuan series. 6th edition novels where she leads a Slaaneshi Chaos horde to invade Ulthuan, then tries to unravel to vortex and let Slaanesh into the world.

    Storm of Chaos happened later after she recovered from having Caledor shoot her with mind bullets. Ah 6th edition, so much better than 8th.
    Defenders of Ulthuan was also a contained story set during a new invasion of Ulthuan, not one that the Army Books ever documented. Know why? Because in that battle Malekith loses his shield and his dragon is crippled. In the Malus novels Hellebron is never mentioned ruling Har Ganeth, yet she is in the 6E army book. The Army Books are always the main source of lore for races - normally whether we like it or not.

    But this is still besides the point, I am allowed to have a preference and opinion, and I preferred 6E lore because it was when I collected Warhammer along with my friends. I don't mind Morathi being a powerful and flawed character then, it surely beats her being a lovestruck girl who spends more time sabotaging the Dark Elves just so she can sleep with Tyrion... But again, that is MY opinion.

    The fact is Andy Hall is a former GW writer and he is writing for CA. Malekith and Morathi share the same end goal in the ritual and nothing you bitch about matters against that. GW decide the lore, not you.

    Deal with it.
    So a new war they decided to add years after the 6th edition army book was published isn't real because it's not in the army book that was written years before the novel? Am I following you correctly?

    I imagine they would have added it in the 7th edition army book if the entire existence of the Cult of Slaanesh that it's based on hadn't been retconned.

    This isn't even about 6th vs 8th. It's about people who want 6th not even being willing to stick with the story they're claiming to want. You want her to be a Chaos cultist, but don't want anything that comes along with it. You want 6th edition lore but you want to ignore that she's only feigning loyalty to Malekith and tries to end the world to gain the favor of Slaanesh.


    She feigned loyalty in one book. However, in the Army book she is described as being dedicated to him.

    I think as a Warhammer fan one of the first things we learn is to always remember the lore is a bloody mess thanks to being a product of 30 years work and terrible business decisions (Like GW losing Chaos Gods back in the day because the writers then quit and took them).

    CA want to produce a Warhammer world, with all the races at the end of the day. That cannot be done with 8E alone, no matter what feelings we have for it.
  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.

    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Wait, Morathi did that in Storm of Chaos? I don't recall that at all. In fact, for everything but that in 6th I don't recall her being an open Chaos worshiper at all.

    Bolded the hilarious irony.
    Defenders of Ulthuan series. 6th edition novels where she leads a Slaaneshi Chaos horde to invade Ulthuan, then tries to unravel to vortex and let Slaanesh into the world.

    Storm of Chaos happened later after she recovered from having Caledor shoot her with mind bullets. Ah 6th edition, so much better than 8th.
    Defenders of Ulthuan was also a contained story set during a new invasion of Ulthuan, not one that the Army Books ever documented. Know why? Because in that battle Malekith loses his shield and his dragon is crippled. In the Malus novels Hellebron is never mentioned ruling Har Ganeth, yet she is in the 6E army book. The Army Books are always the main source of lore for races - normally whether we like it or not.

    But this is still besides the point, I am allowed to have a preference and opinion, and I preferred 6E lore because it was when I collected Warhammer along with my friends. I don't mind Morathi being a powerful and flawed character then, it surely beats her being a lovestruck girl who spends more time sabotaging the Dark Elves just so she can sleep with Tyrion... But again, that is MY opinion.

    The fact is Andy Hall is a former GW writer and he is writing for CA. Malekith and Morathi share the same end goal in the ritual and nothing you bitch about matters against that. GW decide the lore, not you.

    Deal with it.
    So a new war they decided to add years after the 6th edition army book was published isn't real because it's not in the army book that was written years before the novel? Am I following you correctly?

    I imagine they would have added it in the 7th edition army book if the entire existence of the Cult of Slaanesh that it's based on hadn't been retconned.

    This isn't even about 6th vs 8th. It's about people who want 6th not even being willing to stick with the story they're claiming to want. You want her to be a Chaos cultist, but don't want anything that comes along with it. You want 6th edition lore but you want to ignore that she's only feigning loyalty to Malekith and tries to end the world to gain the favor of Slaanesh.


    "That awkward moment when you don't understand that books take a long time to write..." <-- Thats you earlier. And judging by the amount of time it took for him to write book 1 after book 2? Basically a clone of George R. R. Martin. I'd also like to add that anything dealing with SoC immediately overwrites any lore contradictions beforehand as that was an official GW campaign.

    Spoiler - Not all Chaos cultists want the end of the world. I'm totally fine with her being a Chaos cultist. Assuming the only thing that comes with being a Chaos cultist is the end of the world? Nah.

    Again, only source you have of her feigning loyalty to Malekith and trying to end the world are those books. Is there anything else from 6th?
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