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So Morathi is back to worshipping Slaanesh?

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  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users
    edited September 2017
    6th -> Mix of Khaine and Slaanesh who doesn't betray Malekith (outside of a couple of stand-alone novels where she tries to unbind the Great Vortex) who openly declares for Slaanesh in SoC but still doesn't betray Malekith

    8th -> Plots to unbind the Vortex and become a Goddess when Chaos washes over the world, abandons Malekith in their invasion of Ulthuan because Caledor warns her he won't allow her plans to succeed, ruins Urian Poisonblade's chance to kill Tyrion, results in Malekith being beaten in a magical duel by Teclis and throwing himself into the Realm of Chaos to escape Asuryan's vengeance, and then tries to replace Malekith with Tyrion by trying to get him to draw the Widowmaker at the Blighted Isle while Malekith is MIA.

    Her desire to unbind the vortex is present in all editions. Yeah Urian Poisonblade and Tyrion things are silly addition in 8th but that is Matt Ward for you.It wasn't present in 7th edition nor in the books i refer to.And there no chaos following elves in 7th so that is why they should use 7th edition it is superior than both 6th and 8 th edition. >:)
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Posts: 1,091Registered Users

    Uhhh

    6th -> Mix of Khaine and Slaanesh who doesn't betray Malekith (outside of a couple of stand-alone novels where she tries to unbind the Great Vortex) who openly declares for Slaanesh in SoC but still doesn't betray Malekith

    8th -> Plots to unbind the Vortex and become a Goddess when Chaos washes over the world, abandons Malekith in their invasion of Ulthuan because Caledor warns her he won't allow her plans to succeed, ruins Urian Poisonblade's chance to kill Tyrion, results in Malekith being beaten in a magical duel by Teclis and throwing himself into the Realm of Chaos to escape Asuryan's vengeance, and then tries to replace Malekith with Tyrion by trying to get him to draw the Widowmaker at the Blighted Isle while Malekith is MIA.

    Oh ye so loyal.

    6th -> Outside of the times she betrayed Malekith and tried to end the world she didn't betray Malekith or try to end the world.

    8th -> Those aren't really betrayals. Literature, film and television are full of characters who are loyal to one person but step in and prevent the death of an enemy they care about. Doing so often backfires and results in someone else being hurt as a result. Where's Tayvar when I need him to find a TVTropes link? If she actually succeeded in binding all 8 winds to herself, she would be far more powerful than the Chaos gods and could almost single handedly defend the world from them.
  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users

    Uhhh

    6th -> Mix of Khaine and Slaanesh who doesn't betray Malekith (outside of a couple of stand-alone novels where she tries to unbind the Great Vortex) who openly declares for Slaanesh in SoC but still doesn't betray Malekith

    8th -> Plots to unbind the Vortex and become a Goddess when Chaos washes over the world, abandons Malekith in their invasion of Ulthuan because Caledor warns her he won't allow her plans to succeed, ruins Urian Poisonblade's chance to kill Tyrion, results in Malekith being beaten in a magical duel by Teclis and throwing himself into the Realm of Chaos to escape Asuryan's vengeance, and then tries to replace Malekith with Tyrion by trying to get him to draw the Widowmaker at the Blighted Isle while Malekith is MIA.

    Oh ye so loyal.

    6th -> Outside of the times she betrayed Malekith and tried to end the world she didn't betray Malekith or try to end the world.

    8th -> Those aren't really betrayals. Literature, film and television are full of characters who are loyal to one person but step in and prevent the death of an enemy they care about. Doing so often backfires and results in someone else being hurt as a result. Where's Tayvar when I need him to find a TVTropes link? If she actually succeeded in binding all 8 winds to herself, she would be far more powerful than the Chaos gods and could almost single handedly defend the world from them.
    ?

    Not sure what that means? If you're implying her declaring for Slaanesh is he betraying Malekith I'm not sure how since she never sought the throne of Naggaroth or the death of her son. She never tried to harm him and her entire goal for the SoC was to plunder Lustria which had nothing to do with Malekith.

    And as far as 8th I honestly have no idea how you don't find any one of those things betrayals. Malekith's entire desire is to rule Ulthuan. Unbinding the Vortex and ending the world means he can't rule Ulthuan. As far as binding an entire wind to an individual, thats an End Times plot device. Do we really want to add End Times to this?
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users

    Uhhh

    6th -> Mix of Khaine and Slaanesh who doesn't betray Malekith (outside of a couple of stand-alone novels where she tries to unbind the Great Vortex) who openly declares for Slaanesh in SoC but still doesn't betray Malekith

    8th -> Plots to unbind the Vortex and become a Goddess when Chaos washes over the world, abandons Malekith in their invasion of Ulthuan because Caledor warns her he won't allow her plans to succeed, ruins Urian Poisonblade's chance to kill Tyrion, results in Malekith being beaten in a magical duel by Teclis and throwing himself into the Realm of Chaos to escape Asuryan's vengeance, and then tries to replace Malekith with Tyrion by trying to get him to draw the Widowmaker at the Blighted Isle while Malekith is MIA.

    Oh ye so loyal.

    6th -> Outside of the times she betrayed Malekith and tried to end the world she didn't betray Malekith or try to end the world.

    8th -> Those aren't really betrayals. Literature, film and television are full of characters who are loyal to one person but step in and prevent the death of an enemy they care about. Doing so often backfires and results in someone else being hurt as a result. Where's Tayvar when I need him to find a TVTropes link? If she actually succeeded in binding all 8 winds to herself, she would be far more powerful than the Chaos gods and could almost single handedly defend the world from them.
    ?

    Not sure what that means? If you're implying her declaring for Slaanesh is he betraying Malekith I'm not sure how since she never sought the throne of Naggaroth or the death of her son. She never tried to harm him and her entire goal for the SoC was to plunder Lustria which had nothing to do with Malekith.

    And as far as 8th I honestly have no idea how you don't find any one of those things betrayals. Malekith's entire desire is to rule Ulthuan. Unbinding the Vortex and ending the world means he can't rule Ulthuan. As far as binding an entire wind to an individual, thats an End Times plot device. Do we really want to add End Times to this?
    Why do you insist on this unbinding the vortex is present in both 6th and 7th edition by this paragraph.


  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users

    Uhhh

    6th -> Mix of Khaine and Slaanesh who doesn't betray Malekith (outside of a couple of stand-alone novels where she tries to unbind the Great Vortex) who openly declares for Slaanesh in SoC but still doesn't betray Malekith

    8th -> Plots to unbind the Vortex and become a Goddess when Chaos washes over the world, abandons Malekith in their invasion of Ulthuan because Caledor warns her he won't allow her plans to succeed, ruins Urian Poisonblade's chance to kill Tyrion, results in Malekith being beaten in a magical duel by Teclis and throwing himself into the Realm of Chaos to escape Asuryan's vengeance, and then tries to replace Malekith with Tyrion by trying to get him to draw the Widowmaker at the Blighted Isle while Malekith is MIA.

    Oh ye so loyal.

    6th -> Outside of the times she betrayed Malekith and tried to end the world she didn't betray Malekith or try to end the world.

    8th -> Those aren't really betrayals. Literature, film and television are full of characters who are loyal to one person but step in and prevent the death of an enemy they care about. Doing so often backfires and results in someone else being hurt as a result. Where's Tayvar when I need him to find a TVTropes link? If she actually succeeded in binding all 8 winds to herself, she would be far more powerful than the Chaos gods and could almost single handedly defend the world from them.
    ?

    Not sure what that means? If you're implying her declaring for Slaanesh is he betraying Malekith I'm not sure how since she never sought the throne of Naggaroth or the death of her son. She never tried to harm him and her entire goal for the SoC was to plunder Lustria which had nothing to do with Malekith.

    And as far as 8th I honestly have no idea how you don't find any one of those things betrayals. Malekith's entire desire is to rule Ulthuan. Unbinding the Vortex and ending the world means he can't rule Ulthuan. As far as binding an entire wind to an individual, thats an End Times plot device. Do we really want to add End Times to this?
    Why do you insist on this unbinding the vortex is present in both 6th and 7th edition by this paragraph.


    Doesn't outright confirm though. It seems more flavour on Morathi and her unknowable motives than "She wants t do this".
  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users
    References a past event that happened thousands of years ago. You act as if Malekith wasn't entirely on board with the Sundering at the same time.

    Did she continue, in 6th edition "present" timeline, continue attempting to unbind the Great Vortex?

    7th and 8th explicitly states that it was her intention to continue attempting to unbind the Vortex. That 6th edition excerpt does not read as definitive but rather presumptive.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Posts: 1,091Registered Users

    That awkward moment when you have no idea when the novel actually happens in relation to the timeline (as in, you have no idea if it happens after Storm of Chaos or not) but then just throw it out because again, it fits your narrative.

    That awkward moment where the army book for 7th Edition came out in 2008. And yet the second book where the events you mentioned came out in 2011. Does she (along with Malekith) invade Ulthuan in the first book with an army of Slaaneshi marauders at her back? Absolutely, and I applaud you and everyone else for getting through that cringe writing. Does she attempt to unbind the Vortex in that book? Nawp.

    Please continue your meltdown. It's very amusing.

    Storm of Chaos was a campaign that took place in 2521-2522 during the reign of Karl Franz. Basically the same time as End Times. It couldn't have happened after Storm of Chaos because that's the end of time in the Warhammer Universe. Nothing happens after that because it's the current year.

    You think they're just going to completely rewrite the story for the second book in a series? No, they're going to maintain narrative consistency and stick with the same lore they started with.

    Carry on, my dude.

    My meltdown? Sounds like you're the one that needs to chill with these remarks lol. Regardless, outside of that one novel never addressed in any other source (since honestly the novels were really meant to highlight the High Elves more than anything) I don't really read much into it. Its literally a couple of novels where the High Elves suffer no tragedy whatsoever and the Dark Elves lose literally everything.
    So you're always condescending and obnoxious? Ok... if that's your thing. :|
    I find it extremely hard to believe that Morathi recovers from what is essentially the destruction of her mind so badly that her soul is apparently left "bleeding" and Malekith's dragon is left blinded and crippled with him losing his shield (imbued with the rune of Slaanesh) and left bleeding in the saddle. And then Storm of Chaos happened not long after?
    Magic healing is a thing. Malekith doesn't have his shield from 4th edition by 2520 in 6th. He replaced it with the Hand of Khaine.






  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users
    edited September 2017

    References a past event that happened thousands of years ago. You act as if Malekith wasn't entirely on board with the Sundering at the same time.

    Did she continue, in 6th edition "present" timeline, continue attempting to unbind the Great Vortex?

    7th and 8th explicitly states that it was her intention to continue attempting to unbind the Vortex. That 6th edition excerpt does not read as definitive but rather presumptive.

    Wth are you talking about 7th and 6th edition state the same thing and is implied that is her active goal.And Malekith being on board or not doesn't change it..The accompanying fluff of 7th and 6th states it as her goal

    In 8th i am not sure where does it state she is actively pursuing it
  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users
    edited September 2017
    Then 6th and therefore 7th then do not definitively state it as her goal. Again, that's a presumptive tone, and by no means a confirmation that that is exactly her goal. There isn't a point after the Sundering 5,000 years ago where they attempt to unbind the Great Vortex.

    And 8th would be the novel you linked? Everything in those novels is briefly addressed in the 8th edition armybook.

    Comment removed.
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users

    Then 6th and therefore 7th then do not definitively state it as her goal. Again, that's a presumptive tone, and by no means a confirmation that that is exactly her goal. There isn't a point after the Sundering 5,000 years ago where they attempt to unbind the Great Vortex.

    And 8th would be the novel you linked? Everything in those novels is briefly addressed in the 8th edition armybook.

    @Caffynated Are you always so hostile with people who disagree with you? And you say I'm having a meltdown? :/

    It is mostly set in the end of 7th edition the last book is published the same as 8th edition .Defenders of Ulthuan started in 6th and ended in 7th which is why the chaos horde the accompanies Morathi is Slaaneshi in both series her goal is tho unbind the vortex i do assume it is the same in 8th cause it says if Malekith fails his bid for the throne she would use her power to destroy the world.The Sundering where Malekith is the one to suggest the unbinding is written during 7th edition.I can't think of purely 8th edition elf books maybe Deathblade is set in 8th although i think it is more of ET novel
  • Darkened1836Darkened1836 Posts: 260Registered Users

    Then 6th and therefore 7th then do not definitively state it as her goal. Again, that's a presumptive tone, and by no means a confirmation that that is exactly her goal. There isn't a point after the Sundering 5,000 years ago where they attempt to unbind the Great Vortex.

    And 8th would be the novel you linked? Everything in those novels is briefly addressed in the 8th edition armybook.

    @Caffynated Are you always so hostile with people who disagree with you? And you say I'm having a meltdown? :/

    It is mostly set in the end of 7th edition the last book is published the same as 8th edition .Defenders of Ulthuan started in 6th and ended in 7th which is why the chaos horde the accompanies Morathi is Slaaneshi in both series her goal is tho unbind the vortex i do assume it is the same in 8th cause it says if Malekith fails his bid for the throne she would use her power to destroy the world.The Sundering where Malekith is the one to suggest the unbinding is written during 7th edition.I can't think of purely 8th edition elf books maybe Deathblade is set in 8th although i think it is more of ET novel
    The lore in those books (Blood of Aenarion, Sword of Caledor, Bane of Malekith) is backed up and referenced again by the 8th edition army book.

    The events in Defenders of Ulthuan/Sons of Ellyrion are never referenced in any other source of lore and the retcon removing Slaanesh from Dark Elves was occurring as it was being written.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,708Registered Users
    edited September 2017
    This is the depth of the conversation now. Face it, no one here is changing opinions, and until we see for ourselves this thread will just get locked.

    I doubt CA will do any real change with launch so close, so perhaps best to revisit this at launch (or Morathi campaign gameplay) and see if it is a Vortex mechanic only or it is something they intend for Morathi in the combined map as well.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users

    Then 6th and therefore 7th then do not definitively state it as her goal. Again, that's a presumptive tone, and by no means a confirmation that that is exactly her goal. There isn't a point after the Sundering 5,000 years ago where they attempt to unbind the Great Vortex.

    And 8th would be the novel you linked? Everything in those novels is briefly addressed in the 8th edition armybook.

    @Caffynated Are you always so hostile with people who disagree with you? And you say I'm having a meltdown? :/

    It is mostly set in the end of 7th edition the last book is published the same as 8th edition .Defenders of Ulthuan started in 6th and ended in 7th which is why the chaos horde the accompanies Morathi is Slaaneshi in both series her goal is tho unbind the vortex i do assume it is the same in 8th cause it says if Malekith fails his bid for the throne she would use her power to destroy the world.The Sundering where Malekith is the one to suggest the unbinding is written during 7th edition.I can't think of purely 8th edition elf books maybe Deathblade is set in 8th although i think it is more of ET novel
    The lore in those books (Blood of Aenarion, Sword of Caledor, Bane of Malekith) is backed up and referenced again by the 8th edition army book.

    The events in Defenders of Ulthuan/Sons of Ellyrion are never referenced in any other source of lore and the retcon removing Slaanesh from Dark Elves was occurring as it was being written.
    I am not arguing her goal has changed in 8th i argue it is the same through all edition .All of these novels were written after 6th edition was out so they can't reference them in it but you can see Defender of Ulthuan(the second is much later and is reworked probably why it has inconsistencies with the first books) is clearly based on its lore since the chaos champion view Morathi as follower and competitor for the favor of Slaanesh. In 7th edition we only have references of The Sundering novels since Gav Thorpe wrote both them and none of the other novels since they haven't been planned/written yet etc.
    Anyways we are really going around in circles here i will reserve my judgement of what they have done with her till i play her for myself.
  • JecklJeckl Posts: 376Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:



    Morathi's faction in Storm of Chaos was The Cult of Slaanesh.

    None of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, unlike the High, Dark and Wood Elves factions. There's an established naming convention here.

    You're right, none of the human factions are called [Descriptor] Humans, especially not Chaos Humans. It goes by faction. There are Dark Elves. Then there are the Dark Elf city-states such as Har Ganeth or Karond Kar or Clar Karond or Naggarond. There are also Imperial provinces and armies based on those provinces, such as Middenland or Wissenland or Reikland.

    But apparently Chaos Elves is a perfectly fine descriptor whereas Chaos Humans is not (or is depending on who you ask) even though no such faction exists.
    All of the city states/provinces you mentioned are part of the same factions, have the same general political goals and systems of government, follow the same philosophy, and worship the same pantheon of gods. They're not a radically different faction that worship gods who want to eat the world.

    There's more difference between a Chaos worshiping elf faction and Dark Elves than there is between the Dark Elves and High Elves. DE/HE are in a civil war fighting for control of the same nation. They've radicalized over the millennia but for the most part they're still the same people who fought the first Chaos invasion. If one side eventually won most of the surviving losers could be reintegrated into a unified kingdom. If a war breaks out between Chaos Elves and DE/HE/WE it's a fight to extinction. Nobody is going to let a slave of Chaos rejoin society. A Chaos worshiper is permanently tainted and the gods will never let go of their hold over them, and the cultist would only hide his worship while building his cult again in secret.

    And at last we agree on something. There's no such thing as a Chaos aligned elf faction (AKA Chaos Elves) in Warhammer, which makes it really odd that CA put one in TWWH2.

    We also have established naming conventions from existing Warhammer factions.

    Faction 1: Dwarfs
    Faction 2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Referring to them as Chaos Elves closely matches the established faction naming system that GW has used for decades. Insisting that is isn't accurate to do so is absurd.
    Are you really suggesting there is more difference between the elves who secretly worshiped Slaanesh and Dark Elves, than High Elves and Dark Elves? That is ridiculous. CA_Andy already said that Morathi is supporting Malekith in Game 2 in the lore stream. Seriously, this is getting silly.
    You guys are getting ridiculous.

    Faction A: Noblebright Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction B: Gothic Elves who want to hold the Phoenix Throne
    Faction C: Chaos Elves who want to summon eldritch abominations to devour the universe and end all life.

    Let's put them on a graph: A--------B-----------------------------------------------------------C
    You find me where it says in Warhammer 2 Total War that Morathi's goal is to summon eldritch horror to devour all life. You can't, because we already know that Morathi's ritual end goal is exactly the same as Malekith's.

    You claim to love her 6th edition lore, yet you seem to forget it when it doesn't match your narrative.

    Last time Morathi got in bed with Slaanesh she played the dutiful mother to Malekith and then tried to unbind the vortex to let Chaos devour the world.

    If CA is going by 6th edition (and if she's an open Chaos worshiper they are) then that is her storyline.

    If they're going by 6th and it's not her storyline, then they're just making up nonsense. Their "former GW writer" advising them on lore is probably CS Goto.
    Wait, Morathi did that in Storm of Chaos? I don't recall that at all. In fact, for everything but that in 6th I don't recall her being an open Chaos worshiper at all.

    Bolded the hilarious irony.
    Do you not recall her running off with an army of Slaanesh daemons?

    As to the vortex that was in the book defenders of Ulthuan and Sons of Elyrion (I may have miss spelled them) where Malekith has a rune of Slaanesh on his sheild and Morathi tries to undo the vortex, I think it was mentioned before in this thread.
    Further more I consider that Morathi's Chaos Corruption must be changed.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,887Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Deleted several off topic personal comment posts, and edited some others. Discuss the topic, not the personal characteristics, or their lack, in other members.
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  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users
    I am really curious about Morathi skill tree and spells it seems CA actively avoids using her in a fight i think we saw every other lord but her
  • DolorousEddDolorousEdd Junior Member Posts: 555Registered Users
    edited September 2017

    I am really curious about Morathi skill tree and spells it seems CA actively avoids using her in a fight i think we saw every other lord but her

    Team Dwarfs
    Team Bretonnia
    Team Crooked Moon
    Team Cult of Pleasure
    Team Clan Pestilens
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,543Registered Users
    edited September 2017

    I am really curious about Morathi skill tree and spells it seems CA actively avoids using her in a fight i think we saw every other lord but her

    I know about this I mean since she have accesses to 3 lores of magic in 8th edition Dark,Death and Shadow i figured she will have a combination of spells much like mazda and i am curious to see what spell they chose.Also this is just like a little preview of her skill tree
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