Glorified expansion to take more of our money nonsense

Tibi088

Im fed up with people saying game 2 is a Glorified expansion they made to a sequel just so they could charge us more money. This surfaces again and again in various places. I mean seriously? Can you do a bit of math?

Just checked HE DLC on steam, its 17,49 EUR for me. If we get the 4 races of game 2 as separate DLC - which they would be - it would be well above the 59,99 EUR price which game 2 would cost on steam for me at the moment. So how are they charging more money by making this a separate game? Also dont forget free Norsca DLC and we got a whole new map, new mechanics, better UI etc for this price. I dont think we would have gotten all of those if these were DLC.

So even 'if' I would humor you and accept the resoning that this is basically the same game I simply dont care because this way I got a lot more content for a far lower price.

SherShahSuri

Sheep should be happy for new grounds to graze in... the shepherds do us a favor

chrissher7

Maybe they say that it is because it is? It works with it's supposed Prequel in nearly exactly the same way as Dawn of War 1 worked with it's standalone expansions. And the only difference is not being able to play as base game races in the campaign which make it more like an expansion if anything. It is therefore a standalone expansion. This is so obvious to me I do an internal facepalm every time anyone refers to Warhammer and it's expansions as a 'Trilogy' or the expansions as 'sequels'. The fact they called it Warhammer II also shows that they knew people would see through them here. They explicitly called it a sequel because if it was Warhammer: New World Edition more would see it as the expansion that it is. I still think it's worth the money because it will double the amount of content available by the release of the second expansion but it is undeniably an expansion.

I'll leave it at that for now as the mods here don't like this topic because it normally devolves into arguments with various people on both sides. This thread will probably be closed.

Dracoknight

Well if we are going to split the game up into what you would call "DLC packs" lets see you pay about 10$ per race, and then the remaining for a campagin map, so it would hit approx to the pricepoint it is now comparing it to previous content in Warhammer 1.

However, i am a bit miffed about it being called warhammer 2 instead of "Warhammer: The new world" as it would be a lot more understandable what it appears to be.

RandomTag

Game 2 is the proper game, Game 1 is a glorified beta charged for $60

Overlord87

I paid about 100 euros for game 1 + DLC. I played 360 hours so far, more than any game I've played in my life except World of Warcraft (that is a different beast altogether).
If you consider a € per hour value, is probably the highest ever for me. Same will happen for Game 2 I guess.
Yet there are people complaining all the time on Steam. I find it unbelievable honestly.

Gimblob

Overlord87 said:

I paid about 100 euros for game 1 + DLC. I played 360 hours so far, more than any game I've played in my life except World of Warcraft (that is a different beast altogether).
If you consider a € per hour value, is probably the highest ever for me. Same will happen for Game 2 I guess.
Yet there are people complaining all the time on Steam. I find it unbelievable honestly.

i do exactly this to see if it's worth the price. It's a pretty reliable measure for fun-cost ratio IMO

Tennisgolfboll#5877

Overlord87 said:

I paid about 100 euros for game 1 + DLC. I played 360 hours so far, more than any game I've played in my life except World of Warcraft (that is a different beast altogether).
If you consider a € per hour value, is probably the highest ever for me. Same will happen for Game 2 I guess.
Yet there are people complaining all the time on Steam. I find it unbelievable honestly.

Ive played f4 like 3k hrs.

Best entertainment ever.

Warhammer 1 well over 1k.

Very good value.

#902441

Don't think it matters whether you think it a fully-fledged sequel or an expansion, more if you think it's worth the money you'll be paying.

obippo

Overlord87 said:

I find it unbelievable honestly.

Maybe you shouldn't. Shocking but not everyone may count the hours they play a game to convince themselves that the game was worth the money. Duh. You like it or you don't, short or long.

Ixalmaris

How much would have Warhammer 1 cost with your calculation?
4 new races, newly introduced flying units, newly introduced monster units, magic, completely new graphics etc.
Warhammer 1 brought a lot of new things to the franchise which didnt exist before. So it was legitimately a new game.
Warhammer 2 only expands on what is already there by changing textures and adding new models and animation for some races (those that cant be copied like dragons). It does not add anything new to TW. Therefor it is an expansion. CA only calls it a new game so that they can justify a higher price tag.

Gimblob

Ixal said:

How much would have Warhammer 1 cost with your calculation?
4 new races, newly introduced flying units, newly introduced monster units, magic, completely new graphics etc.
Warhammer 1 brought a lot of new things to the franchise which didnt exist before. So it was legitimately a new game.
Warhammer 2 only expands on what is already there by changing textures and adding new models and animation for some races (those that cant be copied like dragons). It does not add anything new to TW. Therefor it is an expansion. CA only calls it a new game so that they can justify a higher price tag.

Yea, it adds absolutly nothing except 4 new unique factions, a huge new map, new lores of magic, a new kind of campaign a a **** more stuff.

Vanilla_Gorilla#8529

Happily even on here the percentage of people who have that absurd, CA bashing opinion is tiny, and largely irrelevant.

Gosling

Gimblob said:

Ixal said:

How much would have Warhammer 1 cost with your calculation?
4 new races, newly introduced flying units, newly introduced monster units, magic, completely new graphics etc.
Warhammer 1 brought a lot of new things to the franchise which didnt exist before. So it was legitimately a new game.
Warhammer 2 only expands on what is already there by changing textures and adding new models and animation for some races (those that cant be copied like dragons). It does not add anything new to TW. Therefor it is an expansion. CA only calls it a new game so that they can justify a higher price tag.

Yea, it adds absolutly nothing except 4 new unique factions, a huge new map, new lores of magic, a new kind of campaign a a **** more stuff.

So nothing...

Nemox

What you think is value for money depends entirely on the individual. You can wait for the game to go on sale if you feel that is what it should be valued at to yourself. But that doesn't mean you cannot criticize when you feel a company is taking advantage of a dedicated fanbase. Just because you will spend thousands of hours on a game means that company is right to charge you per hour of it. Not that this is happening mind you, just an example of set pricing being really good for games you absolutely enjoy.

Game 2 is a glorified expansion - and one I am happy to buy at release. Totally my own opinion on that anyway :P.

Ixalmaris

Gimblob said:

Ixal said:

How much would have Warhammer 1 cost with your calculation?
4 new races, newly introduced flying units, newly introduced monster units, magic, completely new graphics etc.
Warhammer 1 brought a lot of new things to the franchise which didnt exist before. So it was legitimately a new game.
Warhammer 2 only expands on what is already there by changing textures and adding new models and animation for some races (those that cant be copied like dragons). It does not add anything new to TW. Therefor it is an expansion. CA only calls it a new game so that they can justify a higher price tag.

Yea, it adds absolutly nothing except 4 new unique factions, a huge new map, new lores of magic, a new kind of campaign a a **** more stuff.

New models, textures and animations, some which were copied over from the last game. And the framework for flying units and monsters already exists and can be reused. Creating those races is a lot less effort than creating the original 4.
The campaign map was done with an already existing editor thanks to Warhammer 1 and may graphics already existed from the previous game too.
New lores of magic are mostly animation. The framework for magic in the game already exists while when making Game 1 they had to completely build the magic system from the ground up.
The rest they added to Game 2 like the rituals are just variants of what was already there. There is no big feature that had to be made specifically for Game 2. Thus it is an expansion.

Gimblob

I don't really care if people call it a game or expansion(i call it a game though). But it grinds my mind when people say nothing new gets added, because thats just not true.

HighRoller64#8823

You can play it without the original. It is its own game.

Horus38#7265

Agreed, this game has a ton of meat on the bones for me to justify happily paying full price.

Tibi088 said:

Just checked HE DLC on steam, its 17,49 EUR for me.

I'm scratching my head about this though - are you saying you see a High Elf DLC item on steam?

Gimblob

Horus38 said:

Agreed, this game has a ton of meat on the bones for me to justify happily paying full price.

Tibi088 said:

Just checked HE DLC on steam, its 17,49 EUR for me.

I'm scratching my head about this though - are you saying you see a High Elf DLC item on steam?

Obviously he means WE.

HighRoller64#8823

Mods should probably keep a careful eye on this one, lest it become another duel. The last one wasn't pretty by any stretch of the imagination.

uriak

The whole thing is a way to feel personal dissatisfaction from something that doesn't matter. The labeling doesn't change the product.

RonNL

It is simply a matter of opinion, do YOU think it is it worth it.

• Yes, then buy it.
  
• No, then don't.
  

EK5000

ron1404nl said:

It is simply a matter of opinion, do YOU think it is it worth it.

• Yes, then buy it.
  
• No, then don't.
  

The argument is that supposedly less effort has been put into making game 2, "a glorified expansion", therefore it should cost less than game 1.

Which is funny because A there are no fixed price points for games and their expansions, and B it's all a bunch of armchair developing, i.e "X isn't hard to do, I know it!"

Mercii

I'm pretty sure they laid out the plan at the start, the whole thing is going to be one big game and they are releasing it installments.

Its just part 2. I dont really see it as a separate game or a normal expansion, its just the next bit of the fully expected 3 parts.

Value for money it's own issue, but I dont think what it's called is really relevant.

NobleGunner

Tibi088 said:

Im fed up with people saying game 2 is a Glorified expansion they made to a sequel just so they could charge us more money. This surfaces again and again in various places. I mean seriously? Can you do a bit of math?

Just checked HE DLC on steam, its 17,49 EUR for me. If we get the 4 races of game 2 as separate DLC - which they would be - it would be well above the 59,99 EUR price which game 2 would cost on steam for me at the moment. So how are they charging more money by making this a separate game? Also dont forget free Norsca DLC and we got a whole new map, new mechanics, better UI etc for this price. I dont think we would have gotten all of those if these were DLC.

So even 'if' I would humor you and accept the resoning that this is basically the same game I simply dont care because this way I got a lot more content for a far lower price.

I made the exact same title about a month ago in a thread. Lol you have literally copied me wor door word in this thread.

Overlord87

obippo said:

Overlord87 said:

I find it unbelievable honestly.

Maybe you shouldn't. Shocking but not everyone may count the hours they play a game to convince themselves that the game was worth the money. Duh. You like it or you don't, short or long.

If I didn't like the game, I would not have played it for 360 hours. Duh.

Negative reviews on Steam are not for the quality of the game, they are specifically aimed at DLC policy. Which is wrong on many different levels, especially because the main game already comes with 5 free races. So, if you liked the game, there's enough content to justify the price. If you didn't like the game, then there's no meaning to mention DLCs as negative aspect: just say the game is ****.

Mohawk_Roshi

Standalone expansion? full game? I don't care I'll buy it because it's awesome! Go ahead and offer game 3 for preorder as well. I'd rather pay $60 for a glorified expansion which gives me over 1000 hours of enjoyment than something like Call of Duty which I'll play once.

RonNL

EK5000 said:

ron1404nl said:

It is simply a matter of opinion, do YOU think it is it worth it.

• Yes, then buy it.
  
• No, then don't.
  

The argument is that supposedly less effort has been put into making game 2, "a glorified expansion", therefore it should cost less than game 1.

Which is funny because A there are no fixed price points for games and their expansions, and B it's all a bunch of armchair developing, i.e "X isn't hard to do, I know it!"

What makes something worth something is a matter of perspective and personal opinion.

Again if you think it is worth it buy it if you don't then don't but don't complain, it is your choice and you are not forced.

This is not a case where you can simply say it is or is not worth it, it is what people are willing to pay for.
From what i hear TWW2 has more preorders then any other TW game so a lot of people think in this case it is worth it to them.

I also think it is a bold that you say the they put less effort in this game which you simply cannot know.

But i do agree that DLC pricing is ridiculous (in my opinion), but unfortunately that is how the game industry "works"....

Lord_Xelos

Tibi088 said:

Im fed up with people saying game 2 is a Glorified expansion they made to a sequel just so they could charge us more money. This surfaces again and again in various places. I mean seriously? Can you do a bit of math?

Just checked HE DLC on steam, its 17,49 EUR for me. If we get the 4 races of game 2 as separate DLC - which they would be - it would be well above the 59,99 EUR price which game 2 would cost on steam for me at the moment. So how are they charging more money by making this a separate game? Also dont forget free Norsca DLC and we got a whole new map, new mechanics, better UI etc for this price. I dont think we would have gotten all of those if these were DLC.

So even 'if' I would humor you and accept the resoning that this is basically the same game I simply dont care because this way I got a lot more content for a far lower price.

Oh gods, this again.

a) Comparing Expansion Price to DLC prices isn't a good comparison because DLC pricing is an industry malpractice in the first place.
b) Yes, content is exactly the same as if it was 4 DLC's. 4 new races + "minicampaign" times four, resulting in a Vortex campaign. So why is it a sequel exactly? It's 4 DLC's. Period.
c) WH2 fulfills exactly ALL OF THE DEFINITION of an expansion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack
d) Sequel requires a lot more from the game than just content. Game code didn't change a bit, it's still the same game. It even includes all of the base game content, just like regular standalone expansion pack would.

Ixalmaris

ron1404nl said:

I also think it is a bold that you say the they put less effort in this game which you simply cannot know.

When you look qt how much could be reused from Warhammer 1 it is pretty obvious that Warhammer 2 required less effort. (In a management sense meaning man-days or man-years).
If they spend the same amount of effort, where did it go?