Lore Question - Can Lizardmen die by old age?

Grudgebearer101

I know they can live for several thousands of years, But I do wonder about it. I couldn't find any information about it, so I am asking if some of the forum might know.

Neolucifer2000

no, they regenerate dead cells

PIXY_UNICORN#5030

no they can't. They get stronger with age. That and battle experience is why Kroq-gar is so powerful.

Grudgebearer101

All very interesting. My question is answered, thanks.

Drasanil#8421

I thought the no age thing only applied to Saurus.

"At over a century old, Tetto’eko is ancient for a Skink, yet his mind is quick and his unprecedented ability to predict the future only seems to improve."

PoorManatee6197#6481

Saurus and slann no, but skinks yes.

chezequerz

Kroxigors are also "immortal" in this respect the skinks are the only ones that are not. In fact even the carnasaur mounts are apparently "immortal" given Kroq-gar's mount Grymloq was born at the same time he was which was about 6,000 years prior to the coronation of Karl Franz.

Valkaar#2507

I do feel it is worth mentioning, that while Lizardmen do live an incredibly long time...they DO age, and will eventually die of old age.

They are not immortal.

Every reference to their lifespan says things like "Slaan can live for thousands of years..." or "during their long lives of battle Saurus oftentimes....."

All implications that do indeed, eventually, die...even if they aren't killed. It just takes awhile.

Sherman

chezequerz said:

Kroxigors are also "immortal" in this respect the skinks are the only ones that are not. In fact even the carnasaur mounts are apparently "immortal" given Kroq-gar's mount Grymloq was born at the same time he was which was about 6,000 years prior to the coronation of Karl Franz.

I Think Grymloq life it's different from edition to edition, I remember that in some edition there are succession of carnosaurus from the same spawn pools all called with the same name that work as mount for Kroq-gar.

Blueeyesgirl3

Well the Slann can die of old age (sort of - if tethering their spirits to their mummified bodies with sheer force of will and magic power counts as death), so I'd imagine the other Lizardmen breeds will definitely pass on as well, even if it's not stated clearly anywhere. I'd imagine that the Slann can live for eons, while the Lizardmen themselves live for varying periods of thousands of years depending on what they are? But I don't know that for definite.

I mean, Kroq-gar looks pretty good for a 6k-year-old Lizard, so I'd imagine the lifespan of a Saurus is pretty hefty. 50,000 years maybe?

But they are a bit like a fine wine apart from that - they get better with age!

Kayosiv#7489

chezequerz said:

Kroxigors are also "immortal" in this respect the skinks are the only ones that are not. In fact even the carnasaur mounts are apparently "immortal" given Kroq-gar's mount Grymloq was born at the same time he was which was about 6,000 years prior to the coronation of Karl Franz.

They live a long time but are not immortal. Grymloq is Kroq-gar's 12th carnosaur mount.

Drasanil#8421

Blueeyesgirl3 said:

(I'm pretty sure most Slann are old enough to remember the time when the Old Ones were still around, which was a long LONG time ago),

Nope, IIRC only Slann left that remembers the Old Ones is Kroak, 2nd generation onward never had contact with them.

Blueeyesgirl3

Drasanil said:

Blueeyesgirl3 said:

(I'm pretty sure most Slann are old enough to remember the time when the Old Ones were still around, which was a long LONG time ago),

Nope, IIRC only Slann left that remembers the Old Ones is Kroak, 2nd generation onward never had contact with them.

rip, sorry, I'll edit my post so I don't mis-inform people. Thanks for correcting me!

#21546

Valkaar said:

I do feel it is worth mentioning, that while Lizardmen do live an incredibly long time...they DO age, and will eventually die of old age.

They are not immortal.

Every reference to their lifespan says things like "Slaan can live for thousands of years..." or "during their long lives of battle Saurus oftentimes....."

All implications that do indeed, eventually, die...even if they aren't killed. It just takes awhile.

Lord kroak is still alive ( or would be if he hadnt been killed ) and he has been there when the old ones arrived, and mazdamundi came a bit later so they are as old as all the races and eveb older than the elves

Belialxv

Slann and Saurus can't die of old age.

Skinks can die of old age.


We don't know the answer for Kroxigor.

boyfights

little known fact: lizardmen live benjamin button lives, and actually die of young age

Draxynnic#3149

Drasanil said:

Blueeyesgirl3 said:

(I'm pretty sure most Slann are old enough to remember the time when the Old Ones were still around, which was a long LONG time ago),

Nope, IIRC only Slann left that remembers the Old Ones is Kroak, 2nd generation onward never had contact with them.

You're both partially right. Every Slann is old enough to remember a time when the Old Ones were around (barely in the case of the 5th generation, though). However, only the 1st generation ever had direct contact - instructions to the others were relayed through the 1st generation Slann.

Itharus#3127

Now here's a noodle twister for you.

Greenskins might be immortal!

They continue growing as they survive conflict. Generally, things that don't stop growing have amazing regeneration and long life spans. There are some Orc/Ork/Goblin characters in the fluff that are mentioned in multiple eras rather suspiciously (certain mighty ones).

No Orc/Ork/Goblin has ever been known to die of old age (although some Goblin shaman... transform over time). Now this is often assumed that it's due to them dying by violence. It's also an unfortunate lore snippet that Orcs/Orks (not sure about Gobbos) if kept in captivity and inactive will basically kinda atrophy and die after a while.

So... in theory... Greenskins might be immortal! Their lives are just so utterly violent and inherently dangerous that it's never been properly tested before

BaronKlatz#7357

I wondered that too about orcs but those shamen seem to be close to needing a retirement home.

Itharus#3127

Shaman are a special case, I think. Some night goblin shaman actually sorta metamorphose into a shroom field after a while.

Belialxv

Valkaar said:

I do feel it is worth mentioning, that while Lizardmen do live an incredibly long time...they DO age, and will eventually die of old age.

They are not immortal.

Every reference to their lifespan says things like "Slaan can live for thousands of years..." or "during their long lives of battle Saurus oftentimes....."

All implications that do indeed, eventually, die...even if they aren't killed. It just takes awhile.

That's true for the Elves not for the Slanns and Saurus.

Saurus literally get stronger with age and Slanns are so magically potent that their spirit survives their unnatural death. They are truly immortal.

MrJade

There's lots of de jure immortal things in Warhammer. Space Marines, Orks, Slann, Saurus, and Eldar. None of them are de facto immortal though.

Helhound#7332

In theory, @Belialxv is correct about Slann being functionally immortal. Its not that they can't physically die. Old age won't kill them but theres a hellava lot of other things that will. Its that even if they do go down, the more powerful of their number stay spiritually intact. And when dealing with the Slann that means they are pretty much still alive. Lord Kroak is testament to this fact. Besides, they spend most their time asleep anyway. Theres little difference to the skinks whether they divine the Great Plan from a mummified slann or a comatose one.

More so then any other race, save maybe a tie with the Greenskins, Lizardmen are anathema to chaos. They NEVER are subject to its corruption, the "Old Ones" made sure of this. In fact in Age of Sigmar lore, which is arguably a continuation of fantasy, Lizardmen blood cures the taint of chaos. They're **** space dinosaur angels in AoS. Say what you want about AoS but that is some bad ass **** right there. So when a Slann or any lizardmen for that matter dies, chaos does not get a shot at their soul. Not a single god has any Lizardmen souls in his collection.

So if the Slann is powerful enough and decides he doesn't want to pass on....he doesn't. Probably not doing much without a body but skinks can still hear the guy provided they have some sort of medium. To top it all off Lord Kroak, the slann that took a literal dozen bloodthirsters to bring down, can just will himself back to life. He does exactly that in end times lore, right before he catches a moon with his mind.

Like the Slann though age is not a factor for the rest of the Lizardmen not native to Lustria. The dinosaur mounts like carnoasurs and such will still grow old and die, but the Lizards that the "Old Ones" genetically toyed with will die in battle thousands of years before they die of old age. Saurians literally cant die of old age.

TheOrganKing

No Saurus or Slann has ever died of old age, but they are capable of succumbing due to disease or war, most notably Slann have been known to pass away in their comatose state due to the unusual affliction that has plagued all of them since the great Catastrophe. Whether this means they are actually immortal or simply haven't reached a point where they pass from old age is unkown.

As to other Lizardmen races, it kind of depends as to who is writing. In 8th Grymloq is described as the same ageless mount that Kroq-gar took for his own when he first spawned, yet in some other editions Kroq-gar is described as taking many mounts, all of whom are simply named Grymloq.

I don't know anywhere where it states the average Lifespan of Skinks, simply that Tetto-ekko is very old for one at over 100 years. Whether this means the skinks do indeed die of old age, or simply that none have lived for a long time is up to reader discretion. Goblins also don't die from old age, but their average lifespan is something like 5 to 7 years. Skinks are regularly given the job of raising and herding the various beasts of Lustria, as well as scouting the jungles nearby. Even skink prophets are often disposed of should they do something that the Slann deem against The Great Plan. It may simply be that skinks simply don't survive long enough for old age to even matter, rather then them actually having a limited lifespan.

Kroxigors don't die of old age either I believe. This is mostly due to the fact that Nakai the Wanderer still roams the Lustrian jungles, and he fought during the Great Catastrophe, which makes him Several Thousand Years old. Whether this means all Kroxigors don't die from old age, or whether Nakai is just unique in that way is again, up to reader discretion.

Urgat

Itharus said:

Shaman are a special case, I think. Some night goblin shaman actually sorta metamorphose into a shroom field after a while.

That's because of the shrooms they eat though, not because they're goblins.

saberslash117

Itharus said:

Now here's a noodle twister for you.

Greenskins might be immortal!

They continue growing as they survive conflict. Generally, things that don't stop growing have amazing regeneration and long life spans. There are some Orc/Ork/Goblin characters in the fluff that are mentioned in multiple eras rather suspiciously (certain mighty ones).

No Orc/Ork/Goblin has ever been known to die of old age (although some Goblin shaman... transform over time). Now this is often assumed that it's due to them dying by violence. It's also an unfortunate lore snippet that Orcs/Orks (not sure about Gobbos) if kept in captivity and inactive will basically kinda atrophy and die after a while.

So... in theory... Greenskins might be immortal! Their lives are just so utterly violent and inherently dangerous that it's never been properly tested before

No not really......Skarsnik in the novel Rise of the Horned Rat said himself that he felt old and had only a few more winters left in him...

Itharus#3127

Yeah, no. After looking into the author, what else he's written, the nature of that book, and the age of shitemar stories the author continued onto... nope. Not counting it. Even if I did it would be the only incidence of anything like that for greenskins across like 30+ years of history in two fictional universes. A fluke.

ArecBalrin#2350

Itharus said:

Now here's a noodle twister for you.

Greenskins might be immortal!

They continue growing as they survive conflict. Generally, things that don't stop growing have amazing regeneration and long life spans. There are some Orc/Ork/Goblin characters in the fluff that are mentioned in multiple eras rather suspiciously (certain mighty ones).

No Orc/Ork/Goblin has ever been known to die of old age (although some Goblin shaman... transform over time). Now this is often assumed that it's due to them dying by violence. It's also an unfortunate lore snippet that Orcs/Orks (not sure about Gobbos) if kept in captivity and inactive will basically kinda atrophy and die after a while.

So... in theory... Greenskins might be immortal! Their lives are just so utterly violent and inherently dangerous that it's never been properly tested before

I'd been told(but can't directly confirm as I've only ever been a filthy casual Warhammer fan) that at least in the 40k universe, Greenskins not only produce a mass of spores on their death, but that what grows from them are basically clones that inherit memory from their 'father', which is how they know how to speak, fight and make stuff from the moment of spawning. There is some randomness to the process which accounts for different genotypes(a dead Orc/Ork can produce spores that become Goblins, Gretchin and Snotlings), personality and skill sets, but direct personal memories are either forgotten or become the delusions of crazier Greenskins.

There is no reason to assume Greenskins in Warhammer Fantasy are physiologically different I reckon.

FifthOfSpaghetti

ArecBalrin said:

Itharus said:

Now here's a noodle twister for you.

Greenskins might be immortal!

They continue growing as they survive conflict. Generally, things that don't stop growing have amazing regeneration and long life spans. There are some Orc/Ork/Goblin characters in the fluff that are mentioned in multiple eras rather suspiciously (certain mighty ones).

No Orc/Ork/Goblin has ever been known to die of old age (although some Goblin shaman... transform over time). Now this is often assumed that it's due to them dying by violence. It's also an unfortunate lore snippet that Orcs/Orks (not sure about Gobbos) if kept in captivity and inactive will basically kinda atrophy and die after a while.

So... in theory... Greenskins might be immortal! Their lives are just so utterly violent and inherently dangerous that it's never been properly tested before

I'd been told(but can't directly confirm as I've only ever been a filthy casual Warhammer fan) that at least in the 40k universe, Greenskins not only produce a mass of spores on their death, but that what grows from them are basically clones that inherit memory from their 'father', which is how they know how to speak, fight and make stuff from the moment of spawning. There is some randomness to the process which accounts for different genotypes(a dead Orc/Ork can produce spores that become Goblins, Gretchin and Snotlings), personality and skill sets, but direct personal memories are either forgotten or become the delusions of crazier Greenskins.

There is no reason to assume Greenskins in Warhammer Fantasy are physiologically different I reckon.

In 40k Orks are in fact born with the knowledge to make things. But it's not inherited from their "father" they're implied to have an innate ability to just build things out of scrap, it's not supposed to work, if a human picked up an Orks Shoota it stops working, and that's because Orks in 40k only have to believe. If they believe it will work it will work and that's the power of the Waaagh, it's how they created Gork and Mork, just by believing they exist.

In 40k emotions are what fuels the gods.

Emarth

40k orks wrre made by the 40k version of old ones (called "old ones") as a weapon to fight the Necrons. And they have genetic knowlege how to make stuff and organize their society. And they are ageless, they only grow larger to rediculus sizes if they keep fightin and winnin.

yst#1879

Grudgebearer101 said:

All very interesting. My question is answered, thanks.

So many wrong answers here.

They DO die from old age.

Skinks dont live 10,000 yrs, they die. Saurus at some point die ALSO. Lizardman is NOT an immortal race. Slanns and such are able to transcend death like kroak does and will himself to live if he wishes too, but only if they achieve supreme power, which is impossible at this stage because the lost of knowledge of the old, thats why all the slanns been meditating hardcore to decipher lost messages.

Stegadons, mounts for mazdamundi for one, zlaq will die from old age, it could be 10,000 yrs but they do die. All liz r designed and spawn with specific purpose, they will just keep spawning stuffs if replacements needed.

Funny how ppl think they r immortal. At any point of their life if they get minor, say a mosquito bite, and it grows say a bit more poisonous every decade, after a 1,000 yrs, they die.