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Morathi Chaos Corruption (Facepalm) Why not? What else if not?

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  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,476Registered Users
    edited October 2017

    By the way, in the Time of Legends book about Malekith (where the first retcons about the pleasure cult were used in a BL novel around 7E), the Cults of Pleasure were actually corrupting the land in Ulthuan - It gets mentioned that if left unchecked it would destabilize the vortex and bring the Daemons in. It was the main reason the Phoenix King and co needed to stamp it down quickly (There is even a part where a Raven Herald tells of how the corruption spread by the cults makes the chaos corruption in Nagarythe much worse). It is what drives Malekith to destroy them at first because he was fighting Chaos before he then uses the cults to gain legitimacy and frame Bel Shanaar.


    Don't remember corruption of the land mentioned there as far as i remember it was corruption of society and mostly done in secret before the civil war.And what makes him fight them is they basically took control of his kingdom not that they have anything to do with chaos.
    Page 250, Captain Carathril when he is first introduced goes to the Phoenix King and sits while they council what to do with the threat. Ends with him becoming the Herald of the Phoenix King. In that page specifically Thyriol the Lord of Saphery tells them that the dark magic being gathered, intentionally or not he doesn't know, is beginning to gather at the Vortex, far too much to dissipate on its own if it continues to get fed. It pushes them to deal with it sooner, even at the risk of war. Since Imrik doesn't volunteer Thyriol suggests Malekith would be best because the root of the cults is in Nagarythe.

    As for the Raven Herald part that is page 289. The farm that the Daemons corrupted with their blood and Caledor erected a waystone to help remove the corruption. The Cults toppled the waystone and let the corruption spread again.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,182Registered Users
    Carl_Bar said:

    Nitros14 said:

    Hexi said:

    There is 0 reason for it to exist in the first place. There is no lore or gameplay reason for it to exist. I'm hoping a mod will come along shortly that changes her faction to be the same as Malekiths.

    If she is such a chaos spreading menace 2 things would happen.

    1. Her Khainite followers would try to kill her or leave.

    2. Malekith would wage war on her permanently.

    They retconned her cult a long time ago to not be chaos worshipers. I really hate how CA just randomly picks and chooses which edition fluff they use based on apparently whatever they think is "fun" or "cool". If they want to use old fluff then why aren't Wood Elves the peaceful hippies they used to be? Why isn't Bretonnia a perfect Arthurian utopia?

    They should stick with an edition already.

    She's exiled presumably for this reason.

    She probably wasn't openly spreading Chaos Corruption until about right now, since she feels now is the time to strike.

    I think it's pretty cool that her long held secret of worshipping Chaos is openly revealed here.
    It makes about 0 sense for her to worship the killers of her beloved Aenerion .Not mention according to her speach in the beginning of the game is about killing the traitors to Malekith in the Bleakholds .In the game they made it seem like she actively seeks Malekith approval and all DE faction have tolerance to the Pleasure cult which for some reason gives them + 20 diplomatic relation to the Cult of Pleasure faction including Malekith which means they all actually are loving having a worshiper of chaos around.Not to mention that now according to CA Malekith gifted her weapons that give +5 chaos corruption to local region.
    Morathi's never been portrayed as the most stable and most editions treat her relationship with Anerion as her seeking to get power and authority and the means to spread her corruption by cosying up to the biggest power in the land.
    Nope in most edition she both loves him and view him as to view him as way to gain power and authority.She also helped him fight the demons and prophesied for him. Also Anerion corruption is result of the curse of Khaine not Morathi. Anyways Chaos corruption of this level does not make sense since even in 6th edition she viewed the slaaneshi cult as means to solidify her sons reign and got his full unofficial support of it.


    No i mean Age of Sigmar, she was still Chaos associated in the 7th ed DE Book. Check her special character entry in it.


    Her Chaos connection in 7th and 8th edition are about as big as Malekith's .Cult of pleasure is not slaaneshi and she does not worship her/him from 7th onward
  • Carl_BarCarl_Bar Posts: 500Registered Users
    The 7th ed DE Book explicitly mentions her as Chaos Tainted, Having made Demonic Pacts, that Dark Magic Draws from the realm of Chaos, and that she can "unleash the power of chaos with barely a thought". It's not remotely about as big as Malekith's, it's major, and clearly stated. IOn fact her 7th ed lore blurb is exactly the same as her 6th ed one, they copied it.

  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users
    Unfortunately for the dark elves around Morathi, she strikes deals with daemons, and on the back end of these deals is the suffering of others. And so enters chaos corruption.
    Krabbz said:


    MGi said:

    (Lets completely forget that they should be Atharti worshipers for a moment and assume they worship slaanesh as the developers decided) Slaanesh is not a god of war, plague or magic, but rather a god of pleasure, which makes leaving lava breathing volcano's in every province completely nonsense.

    I really hope that they create 4 different chaos corruption visuals and effects for the 4 gods in game 3 + 1-2-3 Mega campaign.
    I do agree with this.

    Oh, and just a tip no one mentioned yet. : You can cross chaos corruption unscathed by moving at maximum 50% on movement points, and you can encamp to not take attrition. Keep doing that until you get pass the corrupted region. You can encamp as long as you don't go past 50% movement points.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,182Registered Users
    edited October 2017
    Nemox said:

    By the way, in the Time of Legends book about Malekith (where the first retcons about the pleasure cult were used in a BL novel around 7E), the Cults of Pleasure were actually corrupting the land in Ulthuan - It gets mentioned that if left unchecked it would destabilize the vortex and bring the Daemons in. It was the main reason the Phoenix King and co needed to stamp it down quickly (There is even a part where a Raven Herald tells of how the corruption spread by the cults makes the chaos corruption in Nagarythe much worse). It is what drives Malekith to destroy them at first because he was fighting Chaos before he then uses the cults to gain legitimacy and frame Bel Shanaar.


    Don't remember corruption of the land mentioned there as far as i remember it was corruption of society and mostly done in secret before the civil war.And what makes him fight them is they basically took control of his kingdom not that they have anything to do with chaos.
    Page 250, Captain Carathril when he is first introduced goes to the Phoenix King and sits while they council what to do with the threat. Ends with him becoming the Herald of the Phoenix King. In that page specifically Thyriol the Lord of Saphery tells them that the dark magic being gathered, intentionally or not he doesn't know, is beginning to gather at the Vortex, far too much to dissipate on its own if it continues to get fed. It pushes them to deal with it sooner, even at the risk of war. Since Imrik doesn't volunteer Thyriol suggests Malekith would be best because the root of the cults is in Nagarythe.

    As for the Raven Herald part that is page 289. The farm that the Daemons corrupted with their blood and Caledor erected a waystone to help remove the corruption. The Cults toppled the waystone and let the corruption spread again.
    Him suggesting it is not by any means Malekith's reason wanting to root out the cults.

    Again this something of a byproduct and not intentional spread of chaos corruption

    The 7th ed DE Book explicitly mentions her as Chaos Tainted, Having made Demonic Pacts, that Dark Magic Draws from the realm of Chaos, and that she can "unleash the power of chaos with barely a thought". It's not remotely about as big as Malekith's, it's major, and clearly stated. IOn fact her 7th ed lore blurb is exactly the same as her 6th ed one, they copied it.


    By unleashing the power of chaos it is meant using dark magic you know the same Malekith uses. Malekith has bound one of the most powerful Demons in N'kari. Her being found by Aenerion is the same yes.And then there is this in 7th about Malekith:


    so where is his chaos corruption?
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 1,814Registered Users
    Play since 3 days and I have no problem with it, are guys just angry cause confederation or what?


    I dont care about malekith, but they could at least remove her voice acting saying she supports Malekith etc.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,182Registered Users

    Play since 3 days and I have no problem with it, are guys just angry cause confederation or what?


    I dont care about malekith, but they could at least remove her voice acting saying she supports Malekith etc.

    What do you mean remove it their whole idea is she is still helping him not that she is going against him
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,476Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    By the way, in the Time of Legends book about Malekith (where the first retcons about the pleasure cult were used in a BL novel around 7E), the Cults of Pleasure were actually corrupting the land in Ulthuan - It gets mentioned that if left unchecked it would destabilize the vortex and bring the Daemons in. It was the main reason the Phoenix King and co needed to stamp it down quickly (There is even a part where a Raven Herald tells of how the corruption spread by the cults makes the chaos corruption in Nagarythe much worse). It is what drives Malekith to destroy them at first because he was fighting Chaos before he then uses the cults to gain legitimacy and frame Bel Shanaar.


    Don't remember corruption of the land mentioned there as far as i remember it was corruption of society and mostly done in secret before the civil war.And what makes him fight them is they basically took control of his kingdom not that they have anything to do with chaos.
    Page 250, Captain Carathril when he is first introduced goes to the Phoenix King and sits while they council what to do with the threat. Ends with him becoming the Herald of the Phoenix King. In that page specifically Thyriol the Lord of Saphery tells them that the dark magic being gathered, intentionally or not he doesn't know, is beginning to gather at the Vortex, far too much to dissipate on its own if it continues to get fed. It pushes them to deal with it sooner, even at the risk of war. Since Imrik doesn't volunteer Thyriol suggests Malekith would be best because the root of the cults is in Nagarythe.

    As for the Raven Herald part that is page 289. The farm that the Daemons corrupted with their blood and Caledor erected a waystone to help remove the corruption. The Cults toppled the waystone and let the corruption spread again.
    Him suggesting it is not by any means Malekith's reason wanting to root out the cults.

    Again this something of a byproduct and not intentional spread of chaos corruption
    The Dark Magic being gathered was the first examples of Morathi's new magic, and something Thyriol was convinced no mage would wield purposely (he says this is the meeting).

    Most of the cult probably weren't aware, but Morathi was, hence Malekith's genuine hurt at her betrayal. Also, later on when she pushes for them to destabilize the Vortex it is only possible because of her actions leading up to that point. The only factor she never considered was Caledor being capable of intervening.

    Malekith's obsession and fear of being forgotten if he didn't become Phoenix King kept him firmly relying on his Mother for help. The circlet of iron was justification in his mind that he had to rule to stop Chaos winning, but it was a double edged sword that pushed him further and further down the rabbit hole of madness.

    He literally goes from being a huge enemy of Chaos to no longer caring if the world burned if he cannot rule. This is the same person who upon looking at Widowmaker decided that no price was worth bringing that mark on the Elves again.

    There are more references to his want to fight chaos and drive them out of his home throughout the book. Though the book does a poor job of showing exactly when Malekith starts using the cults himself (really important info if we're supposed to be believe he was genuinely a tragic figure).
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,182Registered Users
    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:

    By the way, in the Time of Legends book about Malekith (where the first retcons about the pleasure cult were used in a BL novel around 7E), the Cults of Pleasure were actually corrupting the land in Ulthuan - It gets mentioned that if left unchecked it would destabilize the vortex and bring the Daemons in. It was the main reason the Phoenix King and co needed to stamp it down quickly (There is even a part where a Raven Herald tells of how the corruption spread by the cults makes the chaos corruption in Nagarythe much worse). It is what drives Malekith to destroy them at first because he was fighting Chaos before he then uses the cults to gain legitimacy and frame Bel Shanaar.


    Don't remember corruption of the land mentioned there as far as i remember it was corruption of society and mostly done in secret before the civil war.And what makes him fight them is they basically took control of his kingdom not that they have anything to do with chaos.
    Page 250, Captain Carathril when he is first introduced goes to the Phoenix King and sits while they council what to do with the threat. Ends with him becoming the Herald of the Phoenix King. In that page specifically Thyriol the Lord of Saphery tells them that the dark magic being gathered, intentionally or not he doesn't know, is beginning to gather at the Vortex, far too much to dissipate on its own if it continues to get fed. It pushes them to deal with it sooner, even at the risk of war. Since Imrik doesn't volunteer Thyriol suggests Malekith would be best because the root of the cults is in Nagarythe.

    As for the Raven Herald part that is page 289. The farm that the Daemons corrupted with their blood and Caledor erected a waystone to help remove the corruption. The Cults toppled the waystone and let the corruption spread again.
    Him suggesting it is not by any means Malekith's reason wanting to root out the cults.

    Again this something of a byproduct and not intentional spread of chaos corruption
    The Dark Magic being gathered was the first examples of Morathi's new magic, and something Thyriol was convinced no mage would wield purposely (he says this is the meeting).

    Most of the cult probably weren't aware, but Morathi was, hence Malekith's genuine hurt at her betrayal. Also, later on when she pushes for them to destabilize the Vortex it is only possible because of her actions leading up to that point. The only factor she never considered was Caledor being capable of intervening.

    Malekith's obsession and fear of being forgotten if he didn't become Phoenix King kept him firmly relying on his Mother for help. The circlet of iron was justification in his mind that he had to rule to stop Chaos winning, but it was a double edged sword that pushed him further and further down the rabbit hole of madness.

    He literally goes from being a huge enemy of Chaos to no longer caring if the world burned if he cannot rule. This is the same person who upon looking at Widowmaker decided that no price was worth bringing that mark on the Elves again.

    There are more references to his want to fight chaos and drive them out of his home throughout the book. Though the book does a poor job of showing exactly when Malekith starts using the cults himself (really important info if we're supposed to be believe he was genuinely a tragic figure).
    Morathi had used dark magic since before the Vortex to fight demons since she met Aenerion so it was hardy that new of a magic.It is not her pushing for destabilizing the vortex it is Malekith who suggests it in these books .The cults are not chaos in the books he is hurt because she uses them to undermine his authority and takes over his kingdom not cause the cults are dedicated to a chaos god.The change of him putting more value on wanting rule over to fighting chaos is after he got burned and thought he was spurned by Asuryan. Also he was already set on killing Bel after he found the Circlet of Iron cults or no he was set on that course.Anyways this is going a little of topic the mechanic is really not suited for what the Cults of Pleasure are supposed to be
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,476Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:

    By the way, in the Time of Legends book about Malekith (where the first retcons about the pleasure cult were used in a BL novel around 7E), the Cults of Pleasure were actually corrupting the land in Ulthuan - It gets mentioned that if left unchecked it would destabilize the vortex and bring the Daemons in. It was the main reason the Phoenix King and co needed to stamp it down quickly (There is even a part where a Raven Herald tells of how the corruption spread by the cults makes the chaos corruption in Nagarythe much worse). It is what drives Malekith to destroy them at first because he was fighting Chaos before he then uses the cults to gain legitimacy and frame Bel Shanaar.


    Don't remember corruption of the land mentioned there as far as i remember it was corruption of society and mostly done in secret before the civil war.And what makes him fight them is they basically took control of his kingdom not that they have anything to do with chaos.
    Page 250, Captain Carathril when he is first introduced goes to the Phoenix King and sits while they council what to do with the threat. Ends with him becoming the Herald of the Phoenix King. In that page specifically Thyriol the Lord of Saphery tells them that the dark magic being gathered, intentionally or not he doesn't know, is beginning to gather at the Vortex, far too much to dissipate on its own if it continues to get fed. It pushes them to deal with it sooner, even at the risk of war. Since Imrik doesn't volunteer Thyriol suggests Malekith would be best because the root of the cults is in Nagarythe.

    As for the Raven Herald part that is page 289. The farm that the Daemons corrupted with their blood and Caledor erected a waystone to help remove the corruption. The Cults toppled the waystone and let the corruption spread again.
    Him suggesting it is not by any means Malekith's reason wanting to root out the cults.

    Again this something of a byproduct and not intentional spread of chaos corruption
    The Dark Magic being gathered was the first examples of Morathi's new magic, and something Thyriol was convinced no mage would wield purposely (he says this is the meeting).

    Most of the cult probably weren't aware, but Morathi was, hence Malekith's genuine hurt at her betrayal. Also, later on when she pushes for them to destabilize the Vortex it is only possible because of her actions leading up to that point. The only factor she never considered was Caledor being capable of intervening.

    Malekith's obsession and fear of being forgotten if he didn't become Phoenix King kept him firmly relying on his Mother for help. The circlet of iron was justification in his mind that he had to rule to stop Chaos winning, but it was a double edged sword that pushed him further and further down the rabbit hole of madness.

    He literally goes from being a huge enemy of Chaos to no longer caring if the world burned if he cannot rule. This is the same person who upon looking at Widowmaker decided that no price was worth bringing that mark on the Elves again.

    There are more references to his want to fight chaos and drive them out of his home throughout the book. Though the book does a poor job of showing exactly when Malekith starts using the cults himself (really important info if we're supposed to be believe he was genuinely a tragic figure).
    Morathi had used dark magic since before the Vortex to fight demons since she met Aenerion so it was hardy that new of a magic.It is not her pushing for destabilizing the vortex it is Malekith who suggests it in these books .The cults are not chaos in the books he is hurt because she uses them to undermine his authority and takes over his kingdom not cause the cults are dedicated to a chaos god.The change of him putting more value on wanting rule over to fighting chaos is after he got burned and thought he was spurned by Asuryan. Also he was already set on killing Bel after he found the Circlet of Iron cults or no he was set on that course.Anyways this is going a little of topic the mechanic is really not suited for what the Cults of Pleasure are supposed to be
    By the time Morathi had Aenarion under her sway, Caledor and many of his mages had already left. Her use of Dark Magic then wasn't widely known, and kept hidden by her. Even Malekith didn't know it fully, as she uses her knowledge to tempt him to learn from her. She was against Caledor's plan originally, and it was her influences that brought Malekith to the damning conclusion to destabilize the Vortex. As far as Thyriol and co were concerned, no sane person would use dark magic at that point.

    The cults of pleasure causing damage around them isn't that far fetched. The idea that it is completely 100% lore unfriendly is wrong - we already have GW approval confirmed so arguing that is pointless at this point.

    For the sake of focusing on gameplay from now on:

    Morathi shouldn't have the lord effect for chaos corruption as well as faction trait, because other then that confed with her is very easy to deal with since Malekith has the cleanse corruption traits on heroes and the shrines of Khaine are really good at dealing with corruption. The Dark Elf start position is so damn easy to maintain large armies and rake in the funds the issue of building shrines is simply not there (Never mind you want to build them for the sweet units :P).
  • Overlord87Overlord87 Posts: 780Registered Users
    edited October 2017
    Since it has already been cleared that GW has approved this decision lorewise, and by the way perfectly fits with the way the character behaves (you know, sealing pacts with daemons, participating in orgies, corrupting people with pleasure, etc.) and is 100% respectful of lore up to 6th edition (don't know much about later editions), can we move on?

    If anything, I agree the mechanic is a little half-assed and it should be elaborated on more. Witch Elves, Assassins, and other units from the Khainite cult should be removed, along with the Black Guard and possibly other stuff; being replaced by units from the Chaos roster, and later on Daemons of Slaanesh. Then it would be 100% perfect.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, Morathi will be much more fun in Mortal Empires, where you'll be able to ride on the Chaos invasion (single player) or Co-op with Chaos.
  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FrancePosts: 1,937Registered Users
    I condererated with Morathi and surprisingly, you get almost no public order penalty for Chaos corruption in her lands. Only -2 for almost 100% where you'd normally get -15 PO just about.

    You do suffer attrition though and all of her Death Hags retain their Chaos Spreading traits in the blue skill tree so you pretty much have to disband them.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • PedePede Posts: 51Registered Users
    You are all complaining that the curroption feature of Morathi is annoying, broken, ruining confederation etc.

    If you think about it for a second, it's not really a problem and actually makes sense how it works now.

    The lore used in WH2 has Morathi as a secret Slaanesh worshipper. If you confederate and bring her into your kingdom as Malekith, her curroption would spread and harm your kingdom.

    It makes sense. And besides, god forbid they added a mechanic that challenged the old and boring "expand --> make friends --> confederate --> expand some more --> more friends --> confederate"

  • HexiHexi Posts: 1,096Registered Users
    edited October 2017
    Pede said:

    You are all complaining that the curroption feature of Morathi is annoying, broken, ruining confederation etc.

    If you think about it for a second, it's not really a problem and actually makes sense how it works now.

    The lore used in WH2 has Morathi as a secret Slaanesh worshipper. If you confederate and bring her into your kingdom as Malekith, her curroption would spread and harm your kingdom.

    It makes sense. And besides, god forbid they added a mechanic that challenged the old and boring "expand --> make friends --> confederate --> expand some more --> more friends --> confederate"

    Yeah... except that you can do that as Morathi without any penalties.

    /facepalm
    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt
  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainPosts: 2,853Registered Users
    Tbh, play as Malekith was a pain in the *** until i managed to confederate with her.
    Team Skavens



    "Brother Skavens! Consider this... Until the coming of Vermek Skab, the Council of Thirteen placed me in command of this army"
    - Grey Seer Thanquol, ruthlessly taking command of the Nuln Invasion force
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,182Registered Users
    edited October 2017

    Since it has already been cleared that GW has approved this decision lorewise, and by the way perfectly fits with the way the character behaves (you know, sealing pacts with daemons, participating in orgies, corrupting people with pleasure, etc.) and is 100% respectful of lore up to 6th edition (don't know much about later editions), can we move on?

    If anything, I agree the mechanic is a little half-assed and it should be elaborated on more. Witch Elves, Assassins, and other units from the Khainite cult should be removed, along with the Black Guard and possibly other stuff; being replaced by units from the Chaos roster, and later on Daemons of Slaanesh. Then it would be 100% perfect.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, Morathi will be much more fun in Mortal Empires, where you'll be able to ride on the Chaos invasion (single player) or Co-op with Chaos.

    GW aprroval means nothing at this point they will approve anything that will make them money since they killed whfb. They gave no explanation as to why we have both Atharti&Hekarti and the Cult of Pleasure being Slaaneshi in the game .Also no it doesn't make sense considering her character is one who would not accept being a second fiddle to someone by being his/hers follower and serve it like any other chaos champion even if we ignore this and she just uses The Slaaneshi Cult as means to power and control she was never so uncharacteristically unsubtle and open about it . Malekith allows the cults makes use of demons and other sorceress make pacts with demons too since they follow Morathi's teachings why does only in Morathi faction this suddenly mean that they should spread chaos corruption like all chaos factions who basically open chaos gates around the world.Yeah more power to the chaos factions like they needed it with Norsca being in.
  • Jasonco2Jasonco2 Posts: 17Registered Users

    Since it has already been cleared that GW has approved this decision lorewise, and by the way perfectly fits with the way the character behaves (you know, sealing pacts with daemons, participating in orgies, corrupting people with pleasure, etc.) and is 100% respectful of lore up to 6th edition (don't know much about later editions), can we move on?

    If anything, I agree the mechanic is a little half-assed and it should be elaborated on more. Witch Elves, Assassins, and other units from the Khainite cult should be removed, along with the Black Guard and possibly other stuff; being replaced by units from the Chaos roster, and later on Daemons of Slaanesh. Then it would be 100% perfect.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, Morathi will be much more fun in Mortal Empires, where you'll be able to ride on the Chaos invasion (single player) or Co-op with Chaos.

    GW aprroval means nothing at this point they will approve anything that will make them money since they killed whfb.
    And this is where you critics lose me. If CA's approval doesn't mean anything, and GW's approval doesn't mean anything... then who exactly are we supposed to look to for an "okay" in this scenario? You? Please, don't make me laugh. At some point you just need to accept that the game and the lore are going in a different direction then the one you'd prefer. I get it, you're not happy with it; but a lot of us like 6th ed Morathai and enjoy the choices that CA made.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,182Registered Users
    Jasonco2 said:

    Since it has already been cleared that GW has approved this decision lorewise, and by the way perfectly fits with the way the character behaves (you know, sealing pacts with daemons, participating in orgies, corrupting people with pleasure, etc.) and is 100% respectful of lore up to 6th edition (don't know much about later editions), can we move on?

    If anything, I agree the mechanic is a little half-assed and it should be elaborated on more. Witch Elves, Assassins, and other units from the Khainite cult should be removed, along with the Black Guard and possibly other stuff; being replaced by units from the Chaos roster, and later on Daemons of Slaanesh. Then it would be 100% perfect.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, Morathi will be much more fun in Mortal Empires, where you'll be able to ride on the Chaos invasion (single player) or Co-op with Chaos.

    GW aprroval means nothing at this point they will approve anything that will make them money since they killed whfb.
    And this is where you critics lose me. If CA's approval doesn't mean anything, and GW's approval doesn't mean anything... then who exactly are we supposed to look to for an "okay" in this scenario? You? Please, don't make me laugh. At some point you just need to accept that the game and the lore are going in a different direction then the one you'd prefer. I get it, you're not happy with it; but a lot of us like 6th ed Morathai and enjoy the choices that CA made.
    If they offered any reasonable explanation as to why is it so i would accept it but they didn't. They just did it and said it is so without any explanation what so ever.Not about preference here they didn't go with the 6th edition lore the mixed things up and added some silly new addition to it and i repeat with no explanation what so ever as to how two contradicting lores coexist.So for me in conclusion is they don't care and give an ok on anything.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,476Registered Users
    edited October 2017
    Jasonco2 said:

    Since it has already been cleared that GW has approved this decision lorewise, and by the way perfectly fits with the way the character behaves (you know, sealing pacts with daemons, participating in orgies, corrupting people with pleasure, etc.) and is 100% respectful of lore up to 6th edition (don't know much about later editions), can we move on?

    If anything, I agree the mechanic is a little half-assed and it should be elaborated on more. Witch Elves, Assassins, and other units from the Khainite cult should be removed, along with the Black Guard and possibly other stuff; being replaced by units from the Chaos roster, and later on Daemons of Slaanesh. Then it would be 100% perfect.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, Morathi will be much more fun in Mortal Empires, where you'll be able to ride on the Chaos invasion (single player) or Co-op with Chaos.

    GW aprroval means nothing at this point they will approve anything that will make them money since they killed whfb.
    And this is where you critics lose me. If CA's approval doesn't mean anything, and GW's approval doesn't mean anything... then who exactly are we supposed to look to for an "okay" in this scenario? You? Please, don't make me laugh. At some point you just need to accept that the game and the lore are going in a different direction then the one you'd prefer. I get it, you're not happy with it; but a lot of us like 6th ed Morathai and enjoy the choices that CA made.
    Also, It's not like this is a new thing for Warhammer fans... Pretty much everyone at some point picks and chooses what they want to ignore over the years. At the end of the day this game will never be canon, nor will it matter what GW does with WFB being dead. Their new lore for many of these characters are purely Age of Sigmar now.

    Morathi is a very fun campaign, and Malekith has such a strong position to build a ridiculous economy with slaves. CA should take away the chaos corruption from Morathi's Lord trait and put it in the faction one so confed doesn't carry it over, and make it so we can reset her skill tree and for the most part her chaos spreading days will be neutered. Oh and make it so her agents actually update with cleanse corruption.
  • BrakierBrakier Posts: 1,520Registered Users
    well i guess you could kill her. and gain a trait.

  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,182Registered Users
    edited October 2017
    Nemox said:

    Jasonco2 said:

    Since it has already been cleared that GW has approved this decision lorewise, and by the way perfectly fits with the way the character behaves (you know, sealing pacts with daemons, participating in orgies, corrupting people with pleasure, etc.) and is 100% respectful of lore up to 6th edition (don't know much about later editions), can we move on?

    If anything, I agree the mechanic is a little half-assed and it should be elaborated on more. Witch Elves, Assassins, and other units from the Khainite cult should be removed, along with the Black Guard and possibly other stuff; being replaced by units from the Chaos roster, and later on Daemons of Slaanesh. Then it would be 100% perfect.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, Morathi will be much more fun in Mortal Empires, where you'll be able to ride on the Chaos invasion (single player) or Co-op with Chaos.

    GW aprroval means nothing at this point they will approve anything that will make them money since they killed whfb.
    And this is where you critics lose me. If CA's approval doesn't mean anything, and GW's approval doesn't mean anything... then who exactly are we supposed to look to for an "okay" in this scenario? You? Please, don't make me laugh. At some point you just need to accept that the game and the lore are going in a different direction then the one you'd prefer. I get it, you're not happy with it; but a lot of us like 6th ed Morathai and enjoy the choices that CA made.
    Also, It's not like this is a new thing for Warhammer fans... Pretty much everyone at some point picks and chooses what they want to ignore over the years. At the end of the day this game will never be canon, nor will it matter what GW does with WFB being dead. Their new lore for many of these characters are purely Age of Sigmar now.

    Morathi is a very fun campaign, and Malekith has such a strong position to build a ridiculous economy with slaves. CA should take away the chaos corruption from Morathi's Lord trait and put it in the faction one so confed doesn't carry it over, and make it so we can reset her skill tree and for the most part her chaos spreading days will be neutered. Oh and make it so her agents actually update with cleanse corruption.
    Chaos corruption doesn't add anything to the fun for her campaign .The thing is they didn't pick and chose they tried to have best of both worlds and failed miserably imo
  • PedePede Posts: 51Registered Users
    edited October 2017


    "Yeah... except that you can do that as Morathi without any penalties.

    /facepalm"

    Again, makes sense from lore perspective. If you are corrupt as f*** then confederating another empire will just make them corrupt.

    And yeah again it "sucks" to have diversity between the two LL choices. Let's have em as equal as possible please..

    /groinpalm
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,476Registered Users

    Nemox said:

    Jasonco2 said:

    Since it has already been cleared that GW has approved this decision lorewise, and by the way perfectly fits with the way the character behaves (you know, sealing pacts with daemons, participating in orgies, corrupting people with pleasure, etc.) and is 100% respectful of lore up to 6th edition (don't know much about later editions), can we move on?

    If anything, I agree the mechanic is a little half-assed and it should be elaborated on more. Witch Elves, Assassins, and other units from the Khainite cult should be removed, along with the Black Guard and possibly other stuff; being replaced by units from the Chaos roster, and later on Daemons of Slaanesh. Then it would be 100% perfect.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, Morathi will be much more fun in Mortal Empires, where you'll be able to ride on the Chaos invasion (single player) or Co-op with Chaos.

    GW aprroval means nothing at this point they will approve anything that will make them money since they killed whfb.
    And this is where you critics lose me. If CA's approval doesn't mean anything, and GW's approval doesn't mean anything... then who exactly are we supposed to look to for an "okay" in this scenario? You? Please, don't make me laugh. At some point you just need to accept that the game and the lore are going in a different direction then the one you'd prefer. I get it, you're not happy with it; but a lot of us like 6th ed Morathai and enjoy the choices that CA made.
    Also, It's not like this is a new thing for Warhammer fans... Pretty much everyone at some point picks and chooses what they want to ignore over the years. At the end of the day this game will never be canon, nor will it matter what GW does with WFB being dead. Their new lore for many of these characters are purely Age of Sigmar now.

    Morathi is a very fun campaign, and Malekith has such a strong position to build a ridiculous economy with slaves. CA should take away the chaos corruption from Morathi's Lord trait and put it in the faction one so confed doesn't carry it over, and make it so we can reset her skill tree and for the most part her chaos spreading days will be neutered. Oh and make it so her agents actually update with cleanse corruption.
    The thing is they didn't pick and chose they tried to have best of both worlds and failed miserably imo
    If most of the community was as outraged, they would have failed. They simply aren't that bothered what CA has decided to do, either they approve or it doesn't affect them enough to want to see it changed.
  • HexiHexi Posts: 1,096Registered Users
    Pede said:

    "Yeah... except that you can do that as Morathi without any penalties.

    /facepalm"

    Again, makes sense from lore perspective. If you are corrupt as f*** then confederating another empire will just make them corrupt.

    And yeah again it "sucks" to have diversity between the two LL choices. Let's have em as equal as possible please..

    /groinpalm

    Makes sense for a lore perspective for Malekith to obey Morathi and spread her cult?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    HAHAHAHAHA

    wow... just... wow.
    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt
  • PedePede Posts: 51Registered Users
    Hexi said:

    Pede said:

    "Yeah... except that you can do that as Morathi without any penalties.

    /facepalm"
    Again, makes sense from lore perspective. If you are corrupt as f*** then confederating another empire will just make them corrupt.

    And yeah again it "sucks" to have diversity between the two LL choices. Let's have em as equal as possible please..

    /groinpalm

    Makes sense for a lore perspective for Malekith to obey Morathi and spread her cult?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    HAHAHAHAHA

    wow... just... wow.

    Does it make sense for Morathi to confederate Malekiths empire and make entire Naggaroth hers in the first place?

    Have some imagination man. This is a sandbox game, try with a little "what if?" :smiley:

    Also.. HAHA :smile:
  • Overlord87Overlord87 Posts: 780Registered Users
    edited October 2017

    Since it has already been cleared that GW has approved this decision lorewise, and by the way perfectly fits with the way the character behaves (you know, sealing pacts with daemons, participating in orgies, corrupting people with pleasure, etc.) and is 100% respectful of lore up to 6th edition (don't know much about later editions), can we move on?

    If anything, I agree the mechanic is a little half-assed and it should be elaborated on more. Witch Elves, Assassins, and other units from the Khainite cult should be removed, along with the Black Guard and possibly other stuff; being replaced by units from the Chaos roster, and later on Daemons of Slaanesh. Then it would be 100% perfect.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, Morathi will be much more fun in Mortal Empires, where you'll be able to ride on the Chaos invasion (single player) or Co-op with Chaos.

    GW aprroval means nothing at this point they will approve anything that will make them money since they killed whfb. They gave no explanation as to why we have both Athart Hekarti and the Cult of Pleasure being Slaaneshi in the game .Also no it doesn't make sense considering her character is one who would not accept being a second fiddle to someone by being his/hers follower and even if she just used The Slaaneshi Cult as means to power she was never so uncharacteristically unsubtle about it . Malekith makes use of demons and other sorceress make pacts too with demons since they follow her teachings why does only in Morathi faction this suddenly mean that they should spread chaos corruption like all chaos factions who basically open chaos gates around the world.Yeah more power to the chaos factions like they needed it with Norsca being in.
    Again, as we even have mixed army lists DE/Chaos for the Cult of Pleasure, I really don't understand the issue with Morathi spreading Chaos corruption.

    I know GW's handling of lore has not been perfect, in fact, they messed up quite often. For me, I take everything up to 6th edition as canon, let's say up to when Storm of Chaos was published. Later on, including the conclusion of that same Storm of Chaos, it's mostly a large trainwreck for me.

    Back in the old days, some things were left voluntarily vague. Khaine was hinted being only an aspect of Khorne, meaning that practically all the DE society was worshipping Chaos, and all elves had different aspects of Chaos in their pantheon.

    And it was fine like that. Because Chaos is mysterious, subtle and ever-changing. Always corrupting. So, was Morathi a Chaos follower from the beginning, or did she got corrupt along the way? Maybe she consider herself as someone that uses Chaos for her means, and maybe she is, or maybe, just maybe, it's Chaos that's using her. And surprise, maybe Chaos has been using her since the moment Aenarion set eyes in her. The perfect tool to destroy one of their most formidable foes. And surprise, again, they were successful. So much so, that Elves are still killing each other millennias later.

    What I want to say is, Warhammer Fantasy lore has many faces, and it's open to interpretation. I can understand you might like the idea of Morathi not being a Chaos follower. That's fine. Still, there is tons of lore that states otherwise. She has Slaanesh's blessing, she has allied with Chaos multiple times, in the end she'll do anything to gain power for herself. Would she even betray her son for power? Yes, in the blink of an eye.

    So, let's look at what happens in game. CA made a choice here, aligning Morathi with Chaos. In this version of the world, she chose Chaos as the best way to gain power. So now she spreads Chaos corruption. This messes with other DE factions public order - perfect! Her influence and the spreading of the Cult of Pleasure is undermining the existing structure. Once it collapses and you can make the land yours, Chaos corruption won't be a problem anymore, because you all will be joined under the Cult of Pleasure. So, Chaos has helped you to extend your domains.
    Let's say you then sail to the Old World and conquer a region that was ravaged by Beastmen and Norsca. Now there's huge Chaos corruption there, and that helps you. Again, you're using Chaos to your benefit.
    Once Archaon comes, you can ally with him, again gaining the upper hand by using Chaos. Later on, you can always stab him in the back.

    Let's look at this the other way. You as Malekith confederate with Morathi. Lorewise, it might mean she now sees her son as the best way to gain power, and is willing to reduce her mingling with Chaos forces. Still, you're accepting into your realm a scheming, corrupted, manipulative bitch, and yes, she is going to have a bad effect on your internal order. Which is, by the way, perfectly aligned with lore, as Morathi was always infighting with the cult of Khaine and Hellebron.

    Now, to end this long post. CA made a decision, based on existing lore. Maybe not the lore you would have chosen, I can understand that, but still, official lore. To me is a brilliant choice that will work best once Mortal Empires is out. In any case, it adds variety and will be a unique way to play DE even after more LLs are out.

    The game is not bound to be perfect.
    I would like White Lions to have anti-large.
    There was a fifth edition spell from High Magic that allowed you to move around hills, I'd like that into the game.
    I dislike Demigryff Knights, I think they make no sense in the Empire roster and are just latest edition ****.
    I don't like the Fay Enchantress being at war with the Wood Elves.

    And so on. Each one of us has minor or major complaints about the game, end of the day, nothing is game-breaking. But most importantly, they ARE following the lore. Sure, there are minor problems, but mostly it's a matter of personal preference. Btw, that's why there are mods. To accomodate personal preferences.

    I will wait for a mod to insert mixed lists Chaos/DE for Morathi's faction.
    You will wait for a mod to remove Morathi's corruption.

    To each his own.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,476Registered Users
    If we had the same faction like Game 1, Malekith would be the faction leader. Since more people wanted more factions and choices, allowing people to choose Morathi and 'take over' is completely fair.

    It's like waging war on Slann as Kroq Gar, or deciding Teclis should kill Tyrion. Total War is a sandbox game first and foremost. The Vortex offers narrative - not to hold your hand and make you choose exactly as that race would every time.



  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Posts: 2,182Registered Users
    Nemox said:

    Nemox said:

    Jasonco2 said:

    Since it has already been cleared that GW has approved this decision lorewise, and by the way perfectly fits with the way the character behaves (you know, sealing pacts with daemons, participating in orgies, corrupting people with pleasure, etc.) and is 100% respectful of lore up to 6th edition (don't know much about later editions), can we move on?

    If anything, I agree the mechanic is a little half-assed and it should be elaborated on more. Witch Elves, Assassins, and other units from the Khainite cult should be removed, along with the Black Guard and possibly other stuff; being replaced by units from the Chaos roster, and later on Daemons of Slaanesh. Then it would be 100% perfect.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, Morathi will be much more fun in Mortal Empires, where you'll be able to ride on the Chaos invasion (single player) or Co-op with Chaos.

    GW aprroval means nothing at this point they will approve anything that will make them money since they killed whfb.
    And this is where you critics lose me. If CA's approval doesn't mean anything, and GW's approval doesn't mean anything... then who exactly are we supposed to look to for an "okay" in this scenario? You? Please, don't make me laugh. At some point you just need to accept that the game and the lore are going in a different direction then the one you'd prefer. I get it, you're not happy with it; but a lot of us like 6th ed Morathai and enjoy the choices that CA made.
    Also, It's not like this is a new thing for Warhammer fans... Pretty much everyone at some point picks and chooses what they want to ignore over the years. At the end of the day this game will never be canon, nor will it matter what GW does with WFB being dead. Their new lore for many of these characters are purely Age of Sigmar now.

    Morathi is a very fun campaign, and Malekith has such a strong position to build a ridiculous economy with slaves. CA should take away the chaos corruption from Morathi's Lord trait and put it in the faction one so confed doesn't carry it over, and make it so we can reset her skill tree and for the most part her chaos spreading days will be neutered. Oh and make it so her agents actually update with cleanse corruption.
    The thing is they didn't pick and chose they tried to have best of both worlds and failed miserably imo
    If most of the community was as outraged, they would have failed. They simply aren't that bothered what CA has decided to do, either they approve or it doesn't affect them enough to want to see it changed.
    Guess most of the community doesn't really care if the lore makes sense then?Do tell how does it make sense for her goal to be exactly the same as Malekith using rituals and rites of apparently elven gods who are not chaos gods in disguise all the while spreading chaos corruption like Archeon the Everchosen. I am sure the chaos fans part of the community is ecstatic about having an additional chaos faction to play with.
    There threads complaining about it here so guess some of us do care .Also i really wonder who is the least played lord in the game atm since she was dead last in a poll here in the forum about a first played lord in game 2.
  • MalanthorMalanthor Posts: 29Registered Users
    Just make her corruption a new corruption. Type: cult of pleasure corruption with new visual and mechanics effects. The volcanos and chaos terrain dont fit at all nor ar the penalties very proper.
  • HexiHexi Posts: 1,096Registered Users
    Pede said:

    Hexi said:

    Pede said:

    "Yeah... except that you can do that as Morathi without any penalties.

    /facepalm"
    Again, makes sense from lore perspective. If you are corrupt as f*** then confederating another empire will just make them corrupt.

    And yeah again it "sucks" to have diversity between the two LL choices. Let's have em as equal as possible please..

    /groinpalm
    Makes sense for a lore perspective for Malekith to obey Morathi and spread her cult?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    HAHAHAHAHA

    wow... just... wow.

    Does it make sense for Morathi to confederate Malekiths empire and make entire Naggaroth hers in the first place?

    Have some imagination man. This is a sandbox game, try with a little "what if?" :smiley:

    Also.. HAHA :smile:

    And what if monkeys fly out of my butt?!?!?!? IT MAKES SENSE MAN!
    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt
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