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Are people ever going to get tired of butthurting over this? There are units in the game that have nothing to do with the lore. There are key characters missing from the game, and others who shouldn't be there per the current edition. Yes, the Chaos mechanic gets annoying for coop, but it's one of many, many bugs and balance issues in the game currently and will probably be fixed in patches.
As for the lore, the fact is that the retcon was a stupid one that cheapened the entire story that came before it, and all the other lore/literature for the Dark Elves. Chaos was cut out of the picture just to make WHFB more resemble 40k, even though it was an integral part of the elves' identity. TCA thought it was a dumb decision and chances are GW did too for it to not have been observed in the game.
Then why not go all the way and give Mortahi faction Demons instead of Khanite units? It's the half-assedness of it that annoys me the most.
Probably because adding Daemons to her and trying to sell them in game 3 would raise a lot of eyebrows :P.
I'm hoping they add daemon summoning spells for spellcasters of other factions. Malekith actually summoned a greater daemon of Slaanesh to kill the Everqueen once...
Are people ever going to get tired of butthurting over this? There are units in the game that have nothing to do with the lore. There are key characters missing from the game, and others who shouldn't be there per the current edition. Yes, the Chaos mechanic gets annoying for coop, but it's one of many, many bugs and balance issues in the game currently and will probably be fixed in patches.
As for the lore, the fact is that the retcon was a stupid one that cheapened the entire story that came before it, and all the other lore/literature for the Dark Elves. Chaos was cut out of the picture just to make WHFB more resemble 40k, even though it was an integral part of the elves' identity. TCA thought it was a dumb decision and chances are GW did too for it to not have been observed in the game.
Then why not go all the way and give Mortahi faction Demons instead of Khanite units? It's the half-assedness of it that annoys me the most.
Probably because adding Daemons to her and trying to sell them in game 3 would raise a lot of eyebrows :P.
@Tayvar A direct copy would fail, but the idea of religious control was a big part of the Empire States diversity (It's not just Ulric and Sigmar, but Taal etc too). The idea of making cult activity more than just planting a hero in your province or random events would expand on the campaign side considerably more.
Sort of managing the variations of Christianity for the W/E Roman Empires. Granted, some mods expanded on that far more so I'm probably thinking of them as direct examples, but still something CA should have considered in the long run at the very least. It was a step back from Attila's advances in Campaign management.
Well it's didn't stop CA from adding a Greater Daemon to both the Warriors of Chaos and Norsca, if CA goes with Chaos Elves for Morathi, then she would have access to Daemons as well, at the very least for players who would own Part 3. It's not "step back from Attila's advances", Rome: Total War: Barbarian Invasion had similar system too, and Total War Rome 2 is not having it on purpose, as religious conflicts was much more rare in an Polytheistic Societies. There was wars in Ancient Greece timeline, but they was usually not because of religious reasons. Also the High Elves and the Dark Elves are in particular heavily inspired by Athens and Sparta.
Are people ever going to get tired of butthurting over this? There are units in the game that have nothing to do with the lore. There are key characters missing from the game, and others who shouldn't be there per the current edition. Yes, the Chaos mechanic gets annoying for coop, but it's one of many, many bugs and balance issues in the game currently and will probably be fixed in patches.
As for the lore, the fact is that the retcon was a stupid one that cheapened the entire story that came before it, and all the other lore/literature for the Dark Elves. Chaos was cut out of the picture just to make WHFB more resemble 40k, even though it was an integral part of the elves' identity. TCA thought it was a dumb decision and chances are GW did too for it to not have been observed in the game.
Then why not go all the way and give Mortahi faction Demons instead of Khanite units? It's the half-assedness of it that annoys me the most.
Probably because adding Daemons to her and trying to sell them in game 3 would raise a lot of eyebrows :P.
@Tayvar A direct copy would fail, but the idea of religious control was a big part of the Empire States diversity (It's not just Ulric and Sigmar, but Taal etc too). The idea of making cult activity more than just planting a hero in your province or random events would expand on the campaign side considerably more.
Sort of managing the variations of Christianity for the W/E Roman Empires. Granted, some mods expanded on that far more so I'm probably thinking of them as direct examples, but still something CA should have considered in the long run at the very least. It was a step back from Attila's advances in Campaign management.
Well it's didn't stop CA from adding a Greater Daemon to both the Warriors of Chaos and Norsca, if CA goes with Chaos Elves for Morathi, then she would have access to Daemons as well, at the very least for players who would own Part 3. It's not "step back from Attila's advances", Rome: Total War: Barbarian Invasion had similar system too, and Total War Rome 2 is not having it on purpose, as religious conflicts was much more rare in an Polytheistic Societies. There was wars in Ancient Greece timeline, but they was usually not because of religious reasons. Also the High Elves and the Dark Elves are in particular heavily inspired by Athens and Sparta.
I'm considering more than just DE and HE. Polytheistic religions were no stranger to conflicts, and certainly those that tried to impose a single God (See Aten's rise in Ancient Egypt for example) in the midst of others are Monolatristic instead of Monotheistic since they did not denounce other Gods existence, only that theirs is worthy of worship...
@Nemox now I can't put here the quote from you too. Anyway there is good reason for why Karl Franz have references to multiply gods in his diplomacy screen. The cult of sigmar's temples are called churches in some cases, but the empire is by no mean monotheistic, and as long as someone is not chaos worshiper, they usually okay with that.
Was going to add when it eventually appears that Attila made advances overall in campaign, not just the existence of religion being a role, but it all contributing to a better overall experience to Rome 2's for starters.
And for the religious side it is more to do with expanding chaos corruption outside of direct WoC impact to the cult activity that was so rampant that there are dedicated Orders to dealing with it (Witch Hunters). At the very least the Empire should have had it because they are seriously lacking anything remotely unique, and they, being modeled off the Holy Roman Empire, also faced considerable challenges politically and religiously.
Unlikely as it is to see it at this stage, it would have been nice for them to have considered it but I suppose budget was a limit
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
Are people ever going to get tired of butthurting over this? There are units in the game that have nothing to do with the lore. There are key characters missing from the game, and others who shouldn't be there per the current edition. Yes, the Chaos mechanic gets annoying for coop, but it's one of many, many bugs and balance issues in the game currently and will probably be fixed in patches.
As for the lore, the fact is that the retcon was a stupid one that cheapened the entire story that came before it, and all the other lore/literature for the Dark Elves. Chaos was cut out of the picture just to make WHFB more resemble 40k, even though it was an integral part of the elves' identity. TCA thought it was a dumb decision and chances are GW did too for it to not have been observed in the game.
Do people get tired of defending every CA decision no matter how nonsensical and lazy it is.Most of DE literature as you say it is HE novels after the retcon .Also they didn't miss the opportunity to include the "cheap" retcon they were just like it happened but btw hey here is a Slaaneshi cult out of nowhere be happy about our genius "new"idea we didn't even bother to explain how and why happened but it is awesome cause we give you more Chaos.If you want to start on units and lords they are obviously cut from the release so CA can sell them later as DLC it is fine i understand the reality of today game business but ain't really a good point in trying to defend them.I ignored that they haven't improved sieges, gave no naval battles at all even one based on autoresolve, no blood and gore on release etc is it really so hard or so much to ask to explain in loreful way why is this decision in which looks like they only made cause it might be popular and is not even implemented in any meaningful way and all the people will be like yay Slaaneshi cult is back that it doesn't make sense with where they went with the whole faction and the games so far.And suddenly it doesn't matter and people should just accept silently without any complaint of/to our gracious overlords CA just because there many other things that are wrong with the game . I will not even bother trying to argue about the "superior" 6 th edition with the incest relationship b/e Morathi and Malekith cause it is clear as day they didn't use it
Post edited by HisShadowBG#8316 on
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
I have no problem with Morathi being part of chaos but if she does negatively affect Malekith or other Dark Elves then yea maybe something should be changed but I can't really say much else since I am not that far in my Morathi campaign.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
The pacts with demons are still in the lore she just isn't a worshiper/follower of Slaaneshi and the cults are not of it.I find it really fascinating how people have a problem with "Slaanesh lite" but are totally fine with Khorne lite in the face of Khaine and Nurgle lite as one of the aspects of the Horned Rat
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
All he really needed to do is search for Atharti instead of Morathi, in the same sources.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
Niiiiice overreaction there buddy. My head is throbbing for no reason now, so I don't want to deal with this nonsense.
No one is saying, or has said, that the DE have absolutely nothing to do with Chaos, and that anything previously is just a lie/never happened.
In fact, I, at the very least, have stated, numerous times, that I'd be fine with Dark Elf spellcasters spreading Chaos corruption from daemonic pacts/deals, so long as it's player choice to enhance your spellcasting that way.
Like it or not, they went with 8th edition whenever they were able to, including with *EVERY OTHER THING FOR THE DARK ELVES*. Why, then, would it suddenly make sense, for them to just go back to 6th edition for *one character*, when she had representation and lore, in 8th, if not just to fulfill their own agenda, and try to please as many people as possible, lore and reasoning be damned!
Sorry, but again, my head is aching, and I'm getting tired of this/tired in general.
I don't like where they went with it, I can think of many other solutions they could have done otherwise, but I can't change it now. It just means I'll either *have* to get a mod to get the second LL for the DE, or just kill her every single playthrough, because I'm not dealing with Chaos corruption, Slaaneshi worshipping idiots.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
Niiiiice overreaction there buddy. My head is throbbing for no reason now, so I don't want to deal with this nonsense.
No one is saying, or has said, that the DE have absolutely nothing to do with Chaos, and that anything previously is just a lie/never happened.
In fact, I, at the very least, have stated, numerous times, that I'd be fine with Dark Elf spellcasters spreading Chaos corruption from daemonic pacts/deals, so long as it's player choice to enhance your spellcasting that way.
Like it or not, they went with 8th edition whenever they were able to, including with *EVERY OTHER THING FOR THE DARK ELVES*. Why, then, would it suddenly make sense, for them to just go back to 6th edition for *one character*, when she had representation and lore, in 8th, if not just to fulfill their own agenda, and try to please as many people as possible, lore and reasoning be damned!
And to reuse chaos corruption one more time, it's likely one of the main reasons that CA did that.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
The pacts with demons are still in the lore she just isn't a worshiper/follower of Slaaneshi and the cults are not of it.I find it really fascinating how people have a problem with "Slaanesh lite" but are totally fine with Khorne lite in the face of Khaine and Nurgle lite as one of the aspects of the Horned Rat
Khaine isn't "Khorne-lite", they are distinct. One is a god of martial prowess and combat, the other is a god of death and murder. You will never ever see an assassin of Khorne. Khaine doesn't care where the blood comes from so long as he gets it. Khorne is a warrior god who favors face-to-face combat.
Atharti on the other hand just is a stand-in for Slaanesh. There really isn't anything that makes her distinct or fit DE society any better, other than just not being Chaos.
As for the Horned Rat, I don't think it really makes sense either that he's distinct from Nurgle, but that's another discussion.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
The pacts with demons are still in the lore she just isn't a worshiper/follower of Slaaneshi and the cults are not of it.I find it really fascinating how people have a problem with "Slaanesh lite" but are totally fine with Khorne lite in the face of Khaine and Nurgle lite as one of the aspects of the Horned Rat
Khaine isn't "Khorne-lite", they are distinct. One is a god of martial prowess and combat, the other is a god of death and murder. You will never ever see an assassin of Khorne. Khaine doesn't care where the blood comes from so long as he gets it. Khorne is a warrior god who favors face-to-face combat.
Atharti on the other hand just is a stand-in for Slaanesh. There really isn't anything that makes her distinct or fit DE society any better, other than just not being Chaos.
As for the Horned Rat, I don't think it really makes sense either that he's distinct from Nurgle, but that's another discussion.
If Atharti is aSlaanesh stand in one can easily argue that Kahine also is just a Khorne stand-in. Adjusted to be more fitting to the DEs backstabby ways
In regards of the horned Rat... with all The Skaven scheming, Clan Moulder and stuff he's also incorporating trademarks of Tzeentch, so In my opinion it's easy to see why the Horned Rat is it's own thing
The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!
Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!
Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!
Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first. 'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
The pacts with demons are still in the lore she just isn't a worshiper/follower of Slaaneshi and the cults are not of it.I find it really fascinating how people have a problem with "Slaanesh lite" but are totally fine with Khorne lite in the face of Khaine and Nurgle lite as one of the aspects of the Horned Rat
Khaine isn't "Khorne-lite", they are distinct. One is a god of martial prowess and combat, the other is a god of death and murder. You will never ever see an assassin of Khorne. Khaine doesn't care where the blood comes from so long as he gets it. Khorne is a warrior god who favors face-to-face combat.
Are you sure about it? did you not hear the saying "Khorne does not care from whence the blood flows, only that it does."? the whole honorable Khorne was also retconned for the most part.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
The pacts with demons are still in the lore she just isn't a worshiper/follower of Slaaneshi and the cults are not of it.I find it really fascinating how people have a problem with "Slaanesh lite" but are totally fine with Khorne lite in the face of Khaine and Nurgle lite as one of the aspects of the Horned Rat
Khaine isn't "Khorne-lite", they are distinct. One is a god of martial prowess and combat, the other is a god of death and murder. You will never ever see an assassin of Khorne. Khaine doesn't care where the blood comes from so long as he gets it. Khorne is a warrior god who favors face-to-face combat.
Are you sure about it? did you not hear the saying "Khorne does not care from whence the blood flows, only that it does."? the whole honorable Khorne was also retconned for the most part.
There are still no assassins of Khorne, so let's just say he's a god of face-stabbing rather than back-stabbing.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
The pacts with demons are still in the lore she just isn't a worshiper/follower of Slaaneshi and the cults are not of it.I find it really fascinating how people have a problem with "Slaanesh lite" but are totally fine with Khorne lite in the face of Khaine and Nurgle lite as one of the aspects of the Horned Rat
Khaine isn't "Khorne-lite", they are distinct. One is a god of martial prowess and combat, the other is a god of death and murder. You will never ever see an assassin of Khorne. Khaine doesn't care where the blood comes from so long as he gets it. Khorne is a warrior god who favors face-to-face combat.
Atharti on the other hand just is a stand-in for Slaanesh. There really isn't anything that makes her distinct or fit DE society any better, other than just not being Chaos.
As for the Horned Rat, I don't think it really makes sense either that he's distinct from Nurgle, but that's another discussion.
Atharthi is a goddess of seduction and pleasure and is a patron of spies while Slaanesh has a wider focus and feeds of every type of excessive emotion. She has about as much distinction with the Chaos gods as many a number of gods in the warhammer world
Atharti is the Elven Goddess of Pleasure and Seduction, often depicted as a masked figure entwined with blood-red snakes. She has a profound rivalry with her sister Hekarti, and each has made many attempts to slay the other. The Lady of Desire is a mistress of all forms of seduction, and the very sight of her is said to cause mortals to collapse in complete and unquestioning abasement. For this reason, those Naggarothi who infiltrate High Elf society count Atharti amongst their foremost patrons, for only she can unlock the hearts and minds of those they wish to corrupt.[
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Sound concept, poor execution, mainly: 1. All Chaos rebels in new world are supposed to be Beastmen unless in the Northern Waste. This problem is not limited to Morathi or DE. 2. Morathi's corruption should only stay on herself after confederation by Malekith. 3. Slaaneshi corruption does not create hellish inferno: that's Khorne's thing. Instead it should be an exquisite dystopia where everything is both fabulous and horribly wrong. And certainly 18X
Well I'm currently ~150 turns into my Malekith campaign and I'll state how her corruption has effected my playthrough of that campaign. First and foremost her lands are in complete shambles as I will not march my armies into the corrupted lands to help her as I don't want to raid her lands to do so (taking diplomatic penalties) and the slow progress that would entail to get places without taking heavy losses would render it pointless as I will not reach her settlements in time to make a difference before it is conquered or burned (I also see no point in taking the settlement for myself in a sea of Chaos corruption if it has been captured by an enemy faction).
I did try and confederate with her, after doing so I saw how bad her skills had been assigned, how trashed and spread out her armies were (and now taking attrition as they are now part of Malekith's faction and forgot how to resist the corruption) and decided to roll the campaign back 5 turns (to my last manual save) while just leaving her to rot instead. I saw no benefit to dealing with the headache of waiting for the corruption to dissipate and attempting to salvage what pathetic and broken forces she had scattered around. Also with Mazdamundi running around in her lands and all the armies suffering from attrition outside of the towns now (most of which were in bad shape from being looted or recently rebuilt or retaken as I won't help her) it just wasn't going to be my brand of fun to salvage her territory. In fact I have some forces I'm prepared to divert to deal with Mazdamundi if he actually finishes her off and to take them back after he as dealt with the corruption.
In the end I'm not finding it fun to deal with (I should probably mention that I do tend to like to assist my allies and not leave them to rot but when helping them will just be more trouble than it is worth I see no reason to bother). After I play my Tyrion campaign I will give Morathi a go so that I have a better understanding of what I wish to attempt to mod with (not sure what limitations I'm going to be faced with when dealing with her in a modding capacity) her faction to bring it more inline with my style of fun (I've so far completed Teclis and a decent way into my Malekith Campaign).
Anyway that is my experience with the mechanic during my current Malekith Campaign.
Tacitus Quotes:
Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.
I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
If you ask me the whole retcon of Slaanesh is just because GW wanted to get ready for the endtimes/AOS (btw I hate both of them , they makes 0 sense) so the dark elfs could appeal to a ... wider audience ... why do you think slaanesh is "gone missing" in AOS because you can't be having half naked women/deamons running around in a game that is made for a wider audience (including children) .
And I don't really know why ppl keep insisting that DE have nothing to do with chaos ... Just look at them spiky , main colors black , purple , pink (wich by the way are the colors of Slaanesh) , do evil stuff that 100 % feed chaos , even they symbol looks like the symbol of Slaanesh(at least in TW:W2) and they look different like they are corrupted (dark/white hair and darker skin) . Also do you know what the snake represents ... yes it is Slaanesh . But I will try to leave to lore discussion ...
For gameplay I don't mind the chaos corruption that Morathi has but I would like her faction to have something more to it ... Because chaos corruption as it is at the moment is not really interesting . There is no actual corruption - Loyalty debuff , making the enemys turn on their ally , no diplomacy boost with the corrupted factions , no cults , no cultists and so on . Just attrition that is ... kinda useless (specially vs the AI) .
Question:Presumably you’ve needed to create a huge number of new Daemon units to properly flesh them out and give them their own armies? Answer:IR: What you’ve just said is so true,
If you ask me the whole retcon of Slaanesh is just because GW wanted to get ready for the endtimes/AOS (btw I hate both of them , they makes 0 sense) so the dark elfs could appeal to a ... wider audience ... why do you think slaanesh is "gone missing" in AOS because you can't be having half naked women/deamons running around in a game that is made for a wider audience (including children) .
And I don't really know why ppl keep insisting that DE have nothing to do with chaos ... Just look at them spiky , main colors black , purple , pink (wich by the way are the colors of Slaanesh) , do evil stuff that 100 % feed chaos , even they symbol looks like the symbol of Slaanesh(at least in TW:W2) and they look different like they are corrupted (dark/white hair and darker skin) . Also do you know what the snake represents ... yes it is Slaanesh . But I will try to leave to lore discussion ...
For gameplay I don't mind the chaos corruption that Morathi has but I would like her faction to have something more to it ... Because chaos corruption as it is at the moment is not really interesting . There is no actual corruption - Loyalty debuff , making the enemys turn on their ally , no diplomacy boost with the corrupted factions , no cults , no cultists and so on . Just attrition that is ... kinda useless (specially vs the AI) .
Post got eaten
Slaanesh is a storyline in AOS, GW have stated slaanesh is 2018 and they have had more lore development than in the 30 years of whfb. Also trying to appeal to children is pure hogwash considering this is in AOS campaign books.
Nagash: When Nagash reaches out to crush his enemies, it is with a million hands. When Nagash seeks out his prey, it is with a million eyes.....
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
The pacts with demons are still in the lore she just isn't a worshiper/follower of Slaaneshi and the cults are not of it.I find it really fascinating how people have a problem with "Slaanesh lite" but are totally fine with Khorne lite in the face of Khaine and Nurgle lite as one of the aspects of the Horned Rat
Khaine isn't "Khorne-lite", they are distinct. One is a god of martial prowess and combat, the other is a god of death and murder. You will never ever see an assassin of Khorne. Khaine doesn't care where the blood comes from so long as he gets it. Khorne is a warrior god who favors face-to-face combat.
Atharti on the other hand just is a stand-in for Slaanesh. There really isn't anything that makes her distinct or fit DE society any better, other than just not being Chaos.
As for the Horned Rat, I don't think it really makes sense either that he's distinct from Nurgle, but that's another discussion.
Atharthi is a goddess of seduction and pleasure and is a patron of spies while Slaanesh has a wider focus and feeds of every type of excessive emotion. She has about as much distinction with the Chaos gods as many a number of gods in the warhammer world
And the appetites of the Dark Elves encompass everything that Slaanesh is about. They thrive on inflicting pain and torture people as a pastime. They pursue every kind of hedonistic experience there is, the more depraved the better. But all that was probably toned down with the retcon to prepare for AoS.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
The pacts with demons are still in the lore she just isn't a worshiper/follower of Slaaneshi and the cults are not of it.I find it really fascinating how people have a problem with "Slaanesh lite" but are totally fine with Khorne lite in the face of Khaine and Nurgle lite as one of the aspects of the Horned Rat
Khaine isn't "Khorne-lite", they are distinct. One is a god of martial prowess and combat, the other is a god of death and murder. You will never ever see an assassin of Khorne. Khaine doesn't care where the blood comes from so long as he gets it. Khorne is a warrior god who favors face-to-face combat.
Atharti on the other hand just is a stand-in for Slaanesh. There really isn't anything that makes her distinct or fit DE society any better, other than just not being Chaos.
As for the Horned Rat, I don't think it really makes sense either that he's distinct from Nurgle, but that's another discussion.
If Atharti is aSlaanesh stand in one can easily argue that Kahine also is just a Khorne stand-in. Adjusted to be more fitting to the DEs backstabby ways
This is exactly the kind of thing that distinguishes one god from another. They might be broadly similar, but one is more fitting to a culture than another is. That doesn't imply that gods are all mutually exclusive, but it doesn't make every war god Khorne either.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
The pacts with demons are still in the lore she just isn't a worshiper/follower of Slaaneshi and the cults are not of it.I find it really fascinating how people have a problem with "Slaanesh lite" but are totally fine with Khorne lite in the face of Khaine and Nurgle lite as one of the aspects of the Horned Rat
Khaine isn't "Khorne-lite", they are distinct. One is a god of martial prowess and combat, the other is a god of death and murder. You will never ever see an assassin of Khorne. Khaine doesn't care where the blood comes from so long as he gets it. Khorne is a warrior god who favors face-to-face combat.
Atharti on the other hand just is a stand-in for Slaanesh. There really isn't anything that makes her distinct or fit DE society any better, other than just not being Chaos.
As for the Horned Rat, I don't think it really makes sense either that he's distinct from Nurgle, but that's another discussion.
Atharthi is a goddess of seduction and pleasure and is a patron of spies while Slaanesh has a wider focus and feeds of every type of excessive emotion. She has about as much distinction with the Chaos gods as many a number of gods in the warhammer world
And the appetites of the Dark Elves encompass everything that Slaanesh is about. They thrive on inflicting pain and torture people as a pastime. They pursue every kind of hedonistic experience there is, the more depraved the better. But all that was probably toned down with the retcon to prepare for AoS.
Also i did not mind the corruption penalty at all.
It was retconned out in their 7th edition army book, and Slaanesh was replaced with a new goddess named Zlaanesh Atharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.
The pacts with demons are still in the lore she just isn't a worshiper/follower of Slaaneshi and the cults are not of it.I find it really fascinating how people have a problem with "Slaanesh lite" but are totally fine with Khorne lite in the face of Khaine and Nurgle lite as one of the aspects of the Horned Rat
Khaine isn't "Khorne-lite", they are distinct. One is a god of martial prowess and combat, the other is a god of death and murder. You will never ever see an assassin of Khorne. Khaine doesn't care where the blood comes from so long as he gets it. Khorne is a warrior god who favors face-to-face combat.
Atharti on the other hand just is a stand-in for Slaanesh. There really isn't anything that makes her distinct or fit DE society any better, other than just not being Chaos.
As for the Horned Rat, I don't think it really makes sense either that he's distinct from Nurgle, but that's another discussion.
If Atharti is aSlaanesh stand in one can easily argue that Kahine also is just a Khorne stand-in. Adjusted to be more fitting to the DEs backstabby ways
This is exactly the kind of thing that distinguishes one god from another. They might be broadly similar, but one is more fitting to a culture than another is. That doesn't imply that gods are all mutually exclusive, but it doesn't make every war god Khorne either.
So you are saying all DE should be Slaaneshi k good to know
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Maybe now they want slaanesh back , but you can't deny that they possibly removed Slaanesh to start with exactly for reason I said ... (just a lot of companies have been trying to go for the wider audience and ... they destroy their franchises this way ...)
Also sorry I don't follow AOS excuse my ignorance . Uhhhh GW just makes some really bad choices , to tell the truth I would not be surprised to see the comeback of Warhammer fantasy , because TW:W got really popular .
As for the post yea we are getting really off the point so I will stop here ...
Question:Presumably you’ve needed to create a huge number of new Daemon units to properly flesh them out and give them their own armies? Answer:IR: What you’ve just said is so true,
Maybe now they want slaanesh back , but you can't deny that they possibly removed Slaanesh to start with exactly for reason I said ... (just a lot of companies have been trying to go for the wider audience and ... they destroy their franchises this way ...)
Also sorry I don't follow AOS excuse my ignorance . Uhhhh GW just makes some really bad choices , to tell the truth I would not be surprised to see the comeback of Warhammer fantasy , because TW:W got really popular .
As for the post yea we are getting really off the point so I will stop here ...
Oh the irony
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · Disagree AgreeSound familiar? :P.
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1 · Disagree AgreeWas going to add when it eventually appears that Attila made advances overall in campaign, not just the existence of religion being a role, but it all contributing to a better overall experience to Rome 2's for starters.
And for the religious side it is more to do with expanding chaos corruption outside of direct WoC impact to the cult activity that was so rampant that there are dedicated Orders to dealing with it (Witch Hunters). At the very least the Empire should have had it because they are seriously lacking anything remotely unique, and they, being modeled off the Holy Roman Empire, also faced considerable challenges politically and religiously.
Unlikely as it is to see it at this stage, it would have been nice for them to have considered it but I suppose budget was a limit
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0 · Disagree AgreeTaking away the slaansh worshipping made her character dull and unnecessary.
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0 · Disagree AgreeZlaaneshAtharti and it was decided that the Dark Elves would have nothing to with Chaos ever. Never mind everything you heard about pacts with daemons and the ruinous powers everywhere else in the lore, it was all really Atharti and/or Khaine.- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeI will not even bother trying to argue about the "superior" 6 th edition with the incest relationship b/e Morathi and Malekith cause it is clear as day they didn't use it
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · Disagree Agreehttps://1d4chan.org/wiki/Atharti
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1 · Disagree AgreeNo one is saying, or has said, that the DE have absolutely nothing to do with Chaos, and that anything previously is just a lie/never happened.
In fact, I, at the very least, have stated, numerous times, that I'd be fine with Dark Elf spellcasters spreading Chaos corruption from daemonic pacts/deals, so long as it's player choice to enhance your spellcasting that way.
Like it or not, they went with 8th edition whenever they were able to, including with *EVERY OTHER THING FOR THE DARK ELVES*. Why, then, would it suddenly make sense, for them to just go back to 6th edition for *one character*, when she had representation and lore, in 8th, if not just to fulfill their own agenda, and try to please as many people as possible, lore and reasoning be damned!
Sorry, but again, my head is aching, and I'm getting tired of this/tired in general.
I don't like where they went with it, I can think of many other solutions they could have done otherwise, but I can't change it now. It just means I'll either *have* to get a mod to get the second LL for the DE, or just kill her every single playthrough, because I'm not dealing with Chaos corruption, Slaaneshi worshipping idiots.
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2 · Disagree AgreeAtharti on the other hand just is a stand-in for Slaanesh. There really isn't anything that makes her distinct or fit DE society any better, other than just not being Chaos.
As for the Horned Rat, I don't think it really makes sense either that he's distinct from Nurgle, but that's another discussion.
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0 · Disagree Agreehttp://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Khorne
If Atharti is aSlaanesh stand in one can easily argue that Kahine also is just a Khorne stand-in. Adjusted to be more fitting to the DEs backstabby ways
In regards of the horned Rat... with all The Skaven scheming, Clan Moulder and stuff he's also incorporating trademarks of Tzeentch, so In my opinion it's easy to see why the Horned Rat is it's own thing
Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!
Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!
Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
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0 · Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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1 · Disagree Agree1. All Chaos rebels in new world are supposed to be Beastmen unless in the Northern Waste. This problem is not limited to Morathi or DE.
2. Morathi's corruption should only stay on herself after confederation by Malekith.
3. Slaaneshi corruption does not create hellish inferno: that's Khorne's thing. Instead it should be an exquisite dystopia where everything is both fabulous and horribly wrong. And certainly 18X
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1 · Disagree AgreeI did try and confederate with her, after doing so I saw how bad her skills had been assigned, how trashed and spread out her armies were (and now taking attrition as they are now part of Malekith's faction and forgot how to resist the corruption) and decided to roll the campaign back 5 turns (to my last manual save) while just leaving her to rot instead. I saw no benefit to dealing with the headache of waiting for the corruption to dissipate and attempting to salvage what pathetic and broken forces she had scattered around. Also with Mazdamundi running around in her lands and all the armies suffering from attrition outside of the towns now (most of which were in bad shape from being looted or recently rebuilt or retaken as I won't help her) it just wasn't going to be my brand of fun to salvage her territory. In fact I have some forces I'm prepared to divert to deal with Mazdamundi if he actually finishes her off and to take them back after he as dealt with the corruption.
In the end I'm not finding it fun to deal with (I should probably mention that I do tend to like to assist my allies and not leave them to rot but when helping them will just be more trouble than it is worth I see no reason to bother). After I play my Tyrion campaign I will give Morathi a go so that I have a better understanding of what I wish to attempt to mod with (not sure what limitations I'm going to be faced with when dealing with her in a modding capacity) her faction to bring it more inline with my style of fun (I've so far completed Teclis and a decent way into my Malekith Campaign).
Anyway that is my experience with the mechanic during my current Malekith Campaign.
Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.
I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
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3 · Disagree AgreeAnd I don't really know why ppl keep insisting that DE have nothing to do with chaos ... Just look at them spiky , main colors black , purple , pink (wich by the way are the colors of Slaanesh) , do evil stuff that 100 % feed chaos , even they symbol looks like the symbol of Slaanesh(at least in TW:W2) and they look different like they are corrupted (dark/white hair and darker skin) . Also do you know what the snake represents ... yes it is Slaanesh . But I will try to leave to lore discussion ...
For gameplay I don't mind the chaos corruption that Morathi has but I would like her faction to have something more to it ... Because chaos corruption as it is at the moment is not really interesting . There is no actual corruption - Loyalty debuff , making the enemys turn on their ally , no diplomacy boost with the corrupted factions , no cults , no cultists and so on . Just attrition that is ... kinda useless (specially vs the AI) .
Answer:IR: What you’ve just said is so true,
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0 · Disagree AgreeSlaanesh is a storyline in AOS, GW have stated slaanesh is 2018 and they have had more lore development than in the 30 years of whfb. Also trying to appeal to children is pure hogwash considering this is in AOS campaign books.
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0 · Disagree AgreeThis is exactly the kind of thing that distinguishes one god from another. They might be broadly similar, but one is more fitting to a culture than another is. That doesn't imply that gods are all mutually exclusive, but it doesn't make every war god Khorne either.
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1 · Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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1 · Disagree AgreeAlso sorry I don't follow AOS excuse my ignorance . Uhhhh GW just makes some really bad choices , to tell the truth I would not be surprised to see the comeback of Warhammer fantasy , because TW:W got really popular .
As for the post yea we are getting really off the point so I will stop here ...
Answer:IR: What you’ve just said is so true,
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0 · Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · Disagree AgreeHere: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1158792601&searchtext=
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