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Please make Herdstones, Chaos Shrines and Chaos Rifts into settlements instead of ruins for game 2.

cool_ladcool_lad Senior MemberIndiaPosts: 2,272Registered Users
The Beastmen Herdstones, Chaos Rifts and Chaos Shrines (the ones built by Norscans) should be turned into settlement types instead of ruins in order to make it easier for the player and AI to deal with them.

If they remain as ruins, removing them requires a significant loss to the army involved, which makes removing them overly difficult, often causing more losses than actually fighting enemy armies. As settlement types they could either be undefended or have a token garrison, which would make it easier to remove them as there would be no resettlement cost associated with the same.

Comments

  • MrMecHMrMecH Posts: 2,142Registered Users
    edited October 2017
    What point of this? I mean you said that they should have settlement for other races can eliminate them easier. Horde races were underwhelming from the start. They aren't a threat for other races at all (except Chaos ritual invasion events). Did you ever see AI Beastmen and Chaos destroy any faction in game2? I didn't see once. And change their playstyle to against the lore is unacceptable.
    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

  • VyssAlareVyssAlare Posts: 10Registered Users
    A heavily defended chaos rift that constantly spewed out demon/chaos armies until you undertook a crusade to shut it down would be cool though. Think the rebel mechanic but instead of attacking the attached city it goes on to rampage. Could even build up to multi-army before it did so. Built in game mechanic for chaos invasions vs instantly spawning stacks.
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Posts: 16,235Registered Users
    I agree, the Ruins can simply be the equivalent to Wood Elf outposts, granting the Chaos player some line of sight scouting. It otherwise does nothing and there is minimal loss if the AI does something about it like raze it to ground.
    only problem is that the AI would just raze it and doing so does little for their benefit, so either they don;t do it, or they do it and risk losing settlements because their army is marching elsewhere.

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  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaPosts: 2,272Registered Users
    Any information on this in the recent stream?
  • HorseWithNoNameHorseWithNoName Posts: 1,001Registered Users
    I don't understand the reasoning. Why would Herdstones and Chaos ruins treated differently than normal ruins? They all represent a place where there isn't a population (anymore), so they should fall under the same ruin mechanic (outposts could have fallen under either category imo). There may be a discussion about how much of an army cost is required to resettle (though I think it is fine as it is), but again I really don't see the reasoning for this.
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaPosts: 2,272Registered Users

    I don't understand the reasoning. Why would Herdstones and Chaos ruins treated differently than normal ruins? They all represent a place where there isn't a population (anymore), so they should fall under the same ruin mechanic (outposts could have fallen under either category imo). There may be a discussion about how much of an army cost is required to resettle (though I think it is fine as it is), but again I really don't see the reasoning for this.

    Technically none of them are ruins in the true sense of the word. Each of them is in fact inhabited (for example, waystones are gathering places for beastmen) by something or the other.

    The issue is that these settlements have a constant effect on the rest of the province and even surrounding provinces while the player can do nothing except resettle the area at great cost. Herdstones wind up causing more losses than entire Chaos armies due to resettlement costs.

    Turning these 'ruins' into settlement types opens up a range of options on how to deal with them instead of just being limited to very expensive resettlement (such as razing without occupying them), not to mention making it far more likely to see the AI deal with them by taking over.
  • HorseWithNoNameHorseWithNoName Posts: 1,001Registered Users
    edited October 2017
    cool_lad said:

    I don't understand the reasoning. Why would Herdstones and Chaos ruins treated differently than normal ruins? They all represent a place where there isn't a population (anymore), so they should fall under the same ruin mechanic (outposts could have fallen under either category imo). There may be a discussion about how much of an army cost is required to resettle (though I think it is fine as it is), but again I really don't see the reasoning for this.

    Technically none of them are ruins in the true sense of the word. Each of them is in fact inhabited (for example, waystones are gathering places for beastmen) by something or the other.

    The issue is that these settlements have a constant effect on the rest of the province and even surrounding provinces while the player can do nothing except resettle the area at great cost. Herdstones wind up causing more losses than entire Chaos armies due to resettlement costs.

    Turning these 'ruins' into settlement types opens up a range of options on how to deal with them instead of just being limited to very expensive resettlement (such as razing without occupying them), not to mention making it far more likely to see the AI deal with them by taking over.
    In the sense I mentioned (place with no population, to make it more clear civil population), they are. TWW settlements have a population (which is a just number without a race), it more or less represents the size of a given settlement. Afaik, neither chaos ruins nor herdstones have a civil population, they are fundamentally different from a settlement.

    Also, losing a lot of units is annoying, but I am against making everything have a clean way to deal with. Imo it is important to have actual noticable costs associated with certain actions, so having resettlement (especially of chaos corrupted territory) cost time and resources is the only thing that makes the player even care about losing it in the first place (or consider not to populate it). Since you will mostly be confronted with chaos ruins in the lategame (herdstones don't play a big role overall in my experiance), it is imo mandatory to have it cost a lot since at that point, the game is build so that there are hardly any ways to make the player care about anything.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,294Registered Users
    Totally unnecessary if they just give you a "tear down Herdstone/Chaos Icon" option which replaces the "corrupted" ruin with a standard one.
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaPosts: 2,272Registered Users

    Totally unnecessary if they just give you a "tear down Herdstone/Chaos Icon" option which replaces the "corrupted" ruin with a standard one.

    That works as well. As they are, the things are worse than the actual Chaos invasion.
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Posts: 2,617Registered Users
    I think this is a huge deal in game 1. If you are dwarfs, and there is a chaos ruin in a province next to you that you can't normally inhabit, you are doomed to suffer chaos corruption and there is nothing you can do about it.

    This is obviously ridiculous. The game needs an option to go in and tear down chaos ruins and herdstones that isn't resettling.
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  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaPosts: 2,272Registered Users
    Kayosiv said:

    I think this is a huge deal in game 1. If you are dwarfs, and there is a chaos ruin in a province next to you that you can't normally inhabit, you are doomed to suffer chaos corruption and there is nothing you can do about it.

    This is obviously ridiculous. The game needs an option to go in and tear down chaos ruins and herdstones that isn't resettling.

    Precisely. As they stand, these things are currently far too difficult to take care of, and for a pretty annoying reason to boot.

    If there needs to be a challenge to them (aside from the corruption they spread and the associated PO and attrition) then give them a garrison based on the province corruption or time that they have existed (for beastmen herdstones).
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Posts: 1,456Registered Users
    Nice idea. This is something I want even more as chaos player. To balance it gameplay wise it should have negative income, maybe count as a second horde
  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaPosts: 2,272Registered Users
    Did they do anything about these 'ruins'? Haven't been able to check for myself yet.
  • IronFistDaveIronFistDave Posts: 1Registered Users
    Why can't we **** destroy them? Obviously taking a city or fighting against them, you would stop, smash their portal and continue on. Not being able to interact with them at all if you aren't able to "occupy" their settlement is weak AF. And really just a dumb mechanic to double down on.
    I hope 3 isn't like this. How **** stupid a mechanic. "Oh these ruins are sending out corrupting pulses, better **** ignore it, and let whatever it is come up behind me while I march my armies past it and leave at least one settlement undefended..."
    Seriously, I have the entire south except for the human lands, and I can't do anything with the corrupting rifts in all their **** little ruins... Seriously, what serious commander wouldn't handle a passive threat like that swiftly and finally?
    "Oh no, better leave a monument to my mortal enemies sit here and pollute my people into rebellion." Way to think that one through, fucktards... Complete your thought before you code it into your game FFS.

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