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CA you need to fix this AI change that happened between TWW1 and TWW2

Nitros14Nitros14 Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 1,226
edited November 2017 in Feedback & Suggestions
I feel like the AI used to make a big long battle line, keep its cavalry on the flanks and commit them after engagement in TTW1.

But now I often find in TWW2 I seem to find the AI approaching me in a column committing its units piecemeal to a big centre blob.

It seems like quite a downgrade and I don't like it.

From videos I made of TWW2:





Like a marching column, extremely poor formation

And from videos I made of TWW1





Much better.

This is probably also the cause of why the AI clumps onto lords and monsters so badly now. This happens constantly and is a seriously less fun experience than TWW1.

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Comments

  • MooncakeMooncake Registered Users Posts: 445
    I have noticed this problem and agree it is quite the downgrade from game 1. It is only made worse by the AI attempting to dodge artillery and running in to other units, making my artillery more effective than it probably should be.
  • AwesomeLionAwesomeLion Member Registered Users Posts: 846
    Seen this as well. Would be nice if it could be sorted out.
    Tomb Kings
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 4,283
    I have seen this aswell. Biggedt issue in the game at the moment.

    Make it more like wh1. And stop the AI from trying to dodge warmachines.

    It just runs around like a headless chicken suffering huge dmg from warmachines when it tries to dodge.

    Just havr it advance. Right now it stays in fire zone of warmachines sometimes for minutes dancing around taking enormous dmg.

    Fix!!
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • Nitros14Nitros14 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,226
    I agree, it's the biggest issue in the whole game at the moment. This has to be fixed.
  • mrindigo00mrindigo00 Registered Users Posts: 104
    Yeah remove that high threat variable for units such as lords. I think that is screwing with the AI and make them dumb.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 6,777
    This has been pretty bad, it's made worse by the dodging of artillery, which in a line would probably work well, but in a clump serves to provide an unmissable target.
    Things that must be known:
    • The Ogres are a settled race, not a horde.
    • Demons should be 1 race, as per their army book
    • Total Warhammer 2 is superior to Total Warhammer 1
    • There is a big old stack of DLC / Large FLC coming after Norsca
    • The Ogres are going to eat your faction, and its throne.
  • ExarchExarch Registered Users Posts: 143
    I wonder if it is linked to letting reserves become tactically useful. In WH1 you had to commit pretty much everything to match the AI's long line or have them outnumber and outmatch your front line.

    Now it's almost the opposite- you get the option to envelope of use reserves, bit the AI is using a pretty suboptimum strategy.

    I'd probably prefer it if they used a mix of the two to keep things fresh
  • FakeEmperorFakeEmperor Registered Users Posts: 205
    Looks like WH2 CAI has made two steps forward while BAI has made two step back when compared with WH1...
    You can handle 2 fullstacks with a bunch of spearmem even in open field battle. Not to mention bridge battles that i hate them (super easy). Battles in WH1 were much more funny and (relatively) hard...
  • ExarchExarch Registered Users Posts: 143
    Anyone else notice that (dark elves at least) later game armies use spaghetti lines for their elite troops so it's not so easy just to blob up the column and destroy it with artillery and magic?

  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 4,283
    Exarch said:

    Anyone else notice that (dark elves at least) later game armies use spaghetti lines for their elite troops so it's not so easy just to blob up the column and destroy it with artillery and magic?

    Havent noticed this.

    DEs, HEs etc all blob on me
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • FakeEmperorFakeEmperor Registered Users Posts: 205
    edited November 2017
    Exarch said:

    Anyone else notice that (dark elves at least) later game armies use spaghetti lines for their elite troops so it's not so easy just to blob up the column and destroy it with artillery and magic?

    like this?


  • SkalliSkalli Registered Users Posts: 99
    It's way to easy to block their whole army with a few melee units. Since WH2 I can destroy everything with t1 armies.
  • Widowmaker1981Widowmaker1981 Registered Users Posts: 80
    Yep. This issue makes very high melee defence / armour single chars on foot far too good, because the whole enemy infantry army blobs them, allowing easy risk free AOE on their entire army, aside from a few cav/flyers/chariots that dont join the blob.
  • FakeEmperorFakeEmperor Registered Users Posts: 205
  • FranzSaxonFranzSaxon Registered Users Posts: 2,028
    Yeah hopefully they change it. Wh1 the AI seriously was pretty good at being tactical on the battle map, for an AI. Always would use lighit cav or hounds to get my artillery and ALWAYS flanked
  • LayzanLayzan Registered Users Posts: 814
    Mooncake said:

    I have noticed this problem and agree it is quite the downgrade from game 1. It is only made worse by the AI attempting to dodge artillery and running in to other units, making my artillery more effective than it probably should be.

    +1

    I've watched whole armies just dance about getting ruined by my artillery. On bridge maps it's even worse. Almost makes me want to make rush/no arty army set ups.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Registered Users Posts: 952
    Game 1 AI was not good. They had designed the game around what the AI was already good at: rapidly executing mundane tasks such as assigning units to targets, hence why units were designed purely around what they were a counter to rather than fulfilling any army-based role. An AI can do this faster than any player, giving the impression of improvement where there was none. Tactics were so hollowed out that all a player could do about it was try keeping up, tasking and re-tasking units. Every unit was basically a shock troop. There was never a coherent front line because flanking was so excessively favoured by the design, assisted by a gimped shooting system meaning no zone of approach could be adequately covered by volley-fire.

    Magic and mystical creatures should have been an opportunity to introduce features and new tactics, but they ballsed it up. For game 2 they seem to have tried something different but it had no chance of succeeding without a return of group and unit formations so that missile and artillery fire could be properly negated and reserves kept alive.
  • ExarchExarch Registered Users Posts: 143

    Exarch said:

    Anyone else notice that (dark elves at least) later game armies use spaghetti lines for their elite troops so it's not so easy just to blob up the column and destroy it with artillery and magic?

    like this?


    Could just be a random few battles for me , or something to do with medium unit sizes- they still attacked in a big column, but between monsters and spaghetti infantry they were a bit less easy to take down
  • jimmy44jimmy44 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 295
    Yea this is ruining the game for me. I had one battle when AI were supposed to be attacking me. The AI army spent the first 15 minutes dancing around as I destroyed them with my artillery. It reminded me of the BAI in Empire with units bumping into each other and dancing around like headless chickens.

    Please fix CA. Just revert back to Warhammer 1 BAI it is much better.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 752
    For sure is an issue. I've had armies coming at me, waver, and stay in the kill zone just milling about getting bolted down by my Crossbows.

  • jimmy44jimmy44 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 295
    edited November 2017
    Yea just tested same battle in wh1 and wh2. Wh1 units keep line better and outflank. Wh2 they tend to clump in the middle, less flanking and more milling about in firing zone trying to avoid being hit. A real step backwards. Why did they meddle with the BAI??
  • FranzSaxonFranzSaxon Registered Users Posts: 2,028
    jimmy44 said:

    Yea just tested same battle in wh1 and wh2. Wh1 units keep line better and outflank. Wh2 they tend to clump in the middle, less flanking and more milling about in firing zone trying to avoid being hit. A real step backwards. Why did they meddle with the BAI??

    Yes this
  • Nitros14Nitros14 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,226
    This should be your number one priority CA.
  • LayzanLayzan Registered Users Posts: 814
    jimmy44 said:

    Yea this is ruining the game for me. I had one battle when AI were supposed to be attacking me. The AI army spent the first 15 minutes dancing around as I destroyed them with my artillery. It reminded me of the BAI in Empire with units bumping into each other and dancing around like headless chickens.

    Please fix CA. Just revert back to Warhammer 1 BAI it is much better.

    Yup. +1
  • OgwarOgwar Registered Users Posts: 39
    Yes I've noticed this and it's a pretty big deal IMO. As DE you can just camp at the back with a reaper bolt thrower and force them to march as a column towards you - usually with their cav charging through on their own. You can just set-up with Darkshards in the centre and Shades to the side and obliterate whatever comes into the killzone one-by-one. The AI basically plays right into the DE player's hands, which doesn't make for a great experience (though I do enjoy seeing things melt while I take zero casualties :)).
  • FranzSaxonFranzSaxon Registered Users Posts: 2,028
    Just happened to me. They literally came in clumped short fat columns all at my cavalry to the left after floundering. My lines were normal. This is going to completely ruin battles just so everyone knows. Hope they see this thread
  • LayzanLayzan Registered Users Posts: 814
    It's sad when you take 0 casualties against a 20 stack dwarf army as greenskins because they just danced about taking artillery fire then rout.
  • thebiglezthebiglez Registered Users Posts: 472
    it would be cool if they keep both AI actually. so its not the same every battle
  • thebiglezthebiglez Registered Users Posts: 472
    or even better give one AI to certian factions and the other AI to other facitons
  • Nitros14Nitros14 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,226
    Please give this high priority.
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