Why did they take out General/Lord assassinations?

ebai

Now there is only one way to defeat General/Lords now, and that is through battle.

If there is a General/Lord running around by themselves, you'll have to rotate your whole army to defeat them.

You can't use agents to clean up a General/Lord that is by themselves.

So if you have a 20 stack, and a single General/Lord is running around you can't snipe them away. You'll have to rotate your whole army to kill them. And if you don't, they can recruit more units, and be up and running again in a few turns.

Why take away a perfectly good mechanic?

Matmannen

I think this is because it presented a major balancing isue. Some factions (especially Bretonnia) are very economically dependent upon their Generals. Trying to balance the chance of killing generals with the impact of generals have on the campaign map and also make them unique and intereting might be too much of a hassle. So if you simply remove the assasination aspect, then there won't be so much to balance.

ebai

Matmannen said:

I think this is because it presented a major balancing isue. Some factions (especially Bretonnia) are very economically dependent upon their Generals. Trying to balance the chance of killing generals with the impact of generals have on the campaign map and also make them unique and intereting might be too much of a hassle. So if you simply remove the assasination aspect, then there won't be so much to balance.

I can understand that, but just taking out the mechanic seems like a cop out. Agent spam was getting a lot of negativity towards players, but there must have been a better way than to just remove it...

KDubya#7899

Getting rid of assassinating lords is one of the best things they did.

In your example you can just send another army after the lone lord or spend a few turns tracking him down with your nearby army. How often does this happen in a game? i personally can not recall a single instance of this in my games.

You can still wipe out via assassination any agent on the map or embedded in an army, you just can't kill the lord.

Itharus#3127

Honestly, I'm fairly pleased with how the agents were reworked.

I have assassinated Archaon with my starting Goblin Big Boss, Sly da Murdera, waaaaaaaaaaay too many times as Crooked Moon. Won't lie.

He really is Sly.

steam_164191850448yoMgfCp

I can still do that AFAIK no mods
I could be wrong tough

Urgat

Because it was infuriating. You make that full stack, thousands of gold in it, and that dude pops out of nowhere and plop! your LL-led full stack, the great spearhead of the invasion that would sit your dominance over the world, is now led by a Lvl1 nobody. No battles, no nothing, just what amounts to two mouse clicks.
Good riddance.

Itharus#3127

blaat said:

I can still do that AFAIK no mods
I could be wrong tough

They changed it in game 2.

steam_164191850448yoMgfCp

Itharus said:

blaat said:

I can still do that AFAIK no mods
I could be wrong tough

They changed it in game 2.

that is what I use right now
strange

Itharus#3127

You should only be able to assassinate and/or wound (depends on the agent which you can do) other heroes.

epic_160095107267RzXYm7M

Playing Queek ME and sent assassins up to help out with the chaos warriors invasion at Kislev.

It's a bit lame as very few chaos agents have spawned and all my assassins can do is assault armies.

It's a mechanic I didn't mind, as you prepared for it by recruiting and levelling up your own assassins.

It also renders the Lords Immortality skill a bit pointless, which initially I thought was a good thing.

Itharus#3127

The immortality skill prevents you from losing them permanently in battle.

Helhound#7332

Its a balancing mechanic.

Helps prevent the loss of that one lord sitting at lv 19 a turn before he hits 20. With the way AI uses its agents thats a real concern.

It also balances the player side of things. Lets be real here anyone who actually dedicated the time to it could get assassin heroes that never failed. You'd send them out ahead of your army and force the AI to fight without a general. And it worked even if that general was a super badass level 23 Greenskin killing machine. Took some of the thunder out of things. Strategy yea. Effective yea. Abusable oh hell yea. Take the feature out, and everybody wins in this case.

And lets not pretend that agents got worse at their jobs. Just because assassins can only take down other heroes doesnt mean that sniping out that caster hero before a fight even starts isn't devastating. Not to mention that even if they dont have heroes to kill, assault units can rack up literally hundreds of kills against an army before a fight even starts. A trained up assassin causes way more damage off field then he ever could on the field. And the enemy cant even fight back.

Had a beastmen army that declared war on me getting stalked by my assassin hero as Morathi. Didnt even bother sending an army to stop him. In the three turns it took him to reach a minor settlement, the not upgraded garrison kicked his ass. Dont undersell the ability.

Layzan

One thing though is greenskins get a mission to assassinate x faction as part of grimgors weapon. This can be annoying when the enemy factions don't field any agents, or lost them, or the factions are destroyed and your waiting on say the crooked moons to make a building to make a hero because the others get whiped out.

Iron_Crown#5779

It's much better now and one of the main reasons I wouldn't go back to TWW1 even though I'm still working my way through the Old World races.

I'd even say that assassinating heroes should not be possible. Instead, a 'critical success' should be that the hero is wounded plus he loses 5 levels, or half of his levels or something like that. Right now it's still too easy to kill enemy heroes, or sometimes a novice enemy hero gets lucky and your level 30 hero is suddenly gone. Given that it is just a roll of the dice with no strategy involved, that is just not cool.

boyfights

Itharus said:

I have assassinated Archaon with my starting Goblin Big Boss, Sly da Murdera, waaaaaaaaaaay too many times as Crooked Moon. Won't lie.

this will be the only reason i'll miss the mechanic tbh, having your generals lose anywhere besides the battlefield is pretty anticlimactic but my crooked moon game ending with archaon being chased around by four goblin stacks before getting nailed by a big boss was one of my favourite campaign finishes

zinsncabs#3032

Itharus said:

Honestly, I'm fairly pleased with how the agents were reworked.

I have assassinated Archaon with my starting Goblin Big Boss, Sly da Murdera, waaaaaaaaaaay too many times as Crooked Moon. Won't lie.

He really is Sly.

Funny you mention Crooked Moon. In my old TWW games they were the worst to deal with. Sly was a psychotic serial killer who would go to great lengths to hunt my lords and heroes down (not to mention the AI’s). I used to do everything I could to avoid **** off Crooked Moon to neutralize their murderous assassination spam.

All that aside, I don’t miss it one bit. Always seemed cheesy to take out Archaon with a Witchunter hero. I also like the new hero actions like steal technology. Nice implementation CA!

Ixalmaris

ebai said:

Matmannen said:

I think this is because it presented a major balancing isue. Some factions (especially Bretonnia) are very economically dependent upon their Generals. Trying to balance the chance of killing generals with the impact of generals have on the campaign map and also make them unique and intereting might be too much of a hassle. So if you simply remove the assasination aspect, then there won't be so much to balance.

I can understand that, but just taking out the mechanic seems like a cop out. Agent spam was getting a lot of negativity towards players, but there must have been a better way than to just remove it...

Thats the usual thing CA does. They rather remove features instead of balancing them, especially if the AI is involved in some way. Thats much less work and thus cheaper for them.

TheShiroOfDalton

Ixal said:

ebai said:

Matmannen said:

I think this is because it presented a major balancing isue. Some factions (especially Bretonnia) are very economically dependent upon their Generals. Trying to balance the chance of killing generals with the impact of generals have on the campaign map and also make them unique and intereting might be too much of a hassle. So if you simply remove the assasination aspect, then there won't be so much to balance.

I can understand that, but just taking out the mechanic seems like a cop out. Agent spam was getting a lot of negativity towards players, but there must have been a better way than to just remove it...

Thats the usual thing CA does. They rather remove features instead of balancing them, especially if the AI is involved in some way. Thats much less work and thus cheaper for them.

That's why they gave the political system in Rome2 a complete overhaul a few days ago, right?

If you hate CA and TW so much, just go away and play something you like better. No need making yourself and others miserable.

octavian1127

I assumed it has to do with lords actually dying until immortality instead of a wound/die chance.

Yakinton#1016

I am glad they got rid of it. was nothing but annoying in my opnion

and armies with only a general is not very common anyways

Ogwar

It’s a good change. It was abusive before. Wanna kill the general? Then fight him in battle. To me that’s the whole point, not assasinate him then mop up his army.

Tennisgolfboll#5877

KDubya said:

Getting rid of assassinating lords is one of the best things they did.

In your example you can just send another army after the lone lord or spend a few turns tracking him down with your nearby army. How often does this happen in a game? i personally can not recall a single instance of this in my games.

You can still wipe out via assassination any agent on the map or embedded in an army, you just can't kill the lord.

Agreed!

It was a good change.

Tennisgolfboll#5877

Also absurd that a goblin could assasinate Archaon, Thorgrim etc

Chazdoit

Because the AI would spam assassinate on your Lords every single turn, with multiple agents

Ixalmaris

Ephraim_Dalton said:

Ixal said:

ebai said:

Matmannen said:

I think this is because it presented a major balancing isue. Some factions (especially Bretonnia) are very economically dependent upon their Generals. Trying to balance the chance of killing generals with the impact of generals have on the campaign map and also make them unique and intereting might be too much of a hassle. So if you simply remove the assasination aspect, then there won't be so much to balance.

I can understand that, but just taking out the mechanic seems like a cop out. Agent spam was getting a lot of negativity towards players, but there must have been a better way than to just remove it...

Thats the usual thing CA does. They rather remove features instead of balancing them, especially if the AI is involved in some way. Thats much less work and thus cheaper for them.

That's why they gave the political system in Rome2 a complete overhaul a few days ago, right?

If you hate CA and TW so much, just go away and play something you like better. No need making yourself and others miserable.

Yes, so that people would come back to Rome2 and buy their new $17 DLC for it. Don't be so naive.

misterZ#4111

sometimes AI just send 4-6 agents to you
(in my morathi ME campaing 4 HE faction sends agents to my main army)
And when AI try 5 times per turn to kill your lord - it will be likely even with 10%...
so yes - good thing, if only we can get assassiantion on high level agents like (20+ LVL)

steam_164191850448yoMgfCp

Ixal said:

Ephraim_Dalton said:

Ixal said:

ebai said:

Matmannen said:

I think this is because it presented a major balancing isue. Some factions (especially Bretonnia) are very economically dependent upon their Generals. Trying to balance the chance of killing generals with the impact of generals have on the campaign map and also make them unique and intereting might be too much of a hassle. So if you simply remove the assasination aspect, then there won't be so much to balance.

I can understand that, but just taking out the mechanic seems like a cop out. Agent spam was getting a lot of negativity towards players, but there must have been a better way than to just remove it...

Thats the usual thing CA does. They rather remove features instead of balancing them, especially if the AI is involved in some way. Thats much less work and thus cheaper for them.

That's why they gave the political system in Rome2 a complete overhaul a few days ago, right?

If you hate CA and TW so much, just go away and play something you like better. No need making yourself and others miserable.

Yes, so that people would come back to Rome2 and buy their new $17 DLC for it. Don't be so naive.

the update is free no need to pay for DLC

CaesarSahlertz

Ixal said:

ebai said:

Matmannen said:

I think this is because it presented a major balancing isue. Some factions (especially Bretonnia) are very economically dependent upon their Generals. Trying to balance the chance of killing generals with the impact of generals have on the campaign map and also make them unique and intereting might be too much of a hassle. So if you simply remove the assasination aspect, then there won't be so much to balance.

I can understand that, but just taking out the mechanic seems like a cop out. Agent spam was getting a lot of negativity towards players, but there must have been a better way than to just remove it...

Thats the usual thing CA does. They rather remove features instead of balancing them, especially if the AI is involved in some way. Thats much less work and thus cheaper for them.

They DID rebalance the assassination feature... They made it so that you can no longer assassinate lords. That is NOT a removal. That is a rebalancing. Apprently you don't get the difference, which doesn't really surprise me..

Slapshot

It's disappointing. I very rarely used the feature but knowing I can't now cuts just that much more depth away. I really wish they would just fix issues instead if cutting them. Agent spam sucked... So fix it. Assassinations have been in since the start and if they are to be removed I think there should be a valid replacement.

I am sticking around for warhammer until the end but I seriously doubt CA can make a historical title with any of the depth I would require for me to take it seriously. I look at Rome 2 and wish the features that game had were in warhammer... And to me that game was barebones. Sad.

TheShiroOfDalton

Slapshot said:

It's disappointing. I very rarely used the feature but knowing I can't now cuts just that much more depth away. I really wish they would just fix issues instead if cutting them. Agent spam sucked... So fix it. Assassinations have been in since the start and if they are to be removed I think there should be a valid replacement.

I am sticking around for warhammer until the end but I seriously doubt CA can make a historical title with any of the depth I would require for me to take it seriously. I look at Rome 2 and wish the features that game had were in warhammer... And to me that game was barebones. Sad.

1. Agent spam hasn't been a problem for a while
2. Killing generals was a way too powerful tool for either AI or the player. Just tell me how exactly an Empire General manages to wound someone like Kholek without fighting the guy
3. Rome2's agents are obnoxious