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Empire vs Wood Elves multiplayer match up, need advice - Mortal Empires

cuzza4321cuzza4321 Junior MemberPosts: 10Registered Users
So I consider myself quite experienced in the multiplayer area. Almost 800 hours from Wh1 + Wh2. But I just cant stomp wood elves. I can beat them but its always due to their incompetence. For example I struggle to beat an army such as:

1xGlade Lady on Horse or Eagle
1xLife Spellslinger with Regrowth+Earth blood
5xGlade Guard 3, fire arrows 2 poison arrows
4xEternal Guard
2xWildwood Rangers
2xWardancers

Then whatever else you want based on preference. Empire crossbows/gunners get MULCHED if you attempt to skirmish with their archers. Your valuable infantry if you take any get murdered. Demigryphs are never worth their cash in this match up against that much anti large. Karl/Todbringer has to stay back or just get netted and shot down. Witch Hunters can put in some great work if left alone, just accuse, run, accuse repeat. Art is good against wood elves as they dont have a great answer, but unfortunately you rarely kill enough units to pay for it. It gets some nice volleys then just cant out DPS those archers. Like I said I CAN do it, its just usually always due to them being a weak/new player. Is there any strong counters or advice you have found against wood elves? My steam is cuzza4321 - if you want to add me and try and show me strong empire counters.

Comments

  • Busa1227Busa1227 Posts: 1,970Registered Users
    edited November 14
    I'm using a build.... A weird build and some people could thing it's really bad but I'm getting pretty good results.

    - Boris on Griffon (regen and foe-seeker).
    - Bright Wizard (yes, I'm not using light wizard in this MU anymore).
    - 4 Empire Swordsmen
    - 2 Greatswords (they are UP, yes, but they could be decent in this MU).
    - 4 Reiksguard Knights.
    - Gunners RoR
    - Whatever you want (I usually pick 2 extra Swordsmen units).

    I usually use two Reiksguard units in the center mixed with infantry to help because WE infantry totally wrecks Empire Infantry currently. Lore of fire is useful against WE because of magical damage, it's really useful to bring down all WE units. You need Gunners RoR to protect Boris and you need Boris to Protect Gunners RoR, try to play both units defensively and always able to give support each other.

    I was having big issues to win WE as Empire until I started to play with this build, it is not an unbeatable build of course and probably not the best answer to face WE but it's working pretty good for me. At the begin, I thought that Greatswords would be useless in this MU because they could be sniped really easy with archers but then I could see that mixing them with Reiksguard Knights in the center work pretty well, mostly because WE players have to chose between firing Reiksguard units or Greatswords.

    To counter the specific WE build you are describing, I would probably bring more Reiksguard Knights units. BTW, I find Empire skirmish units a waste of money against WE... I only bring gunners RoR and try to keep them save and out of WE Archers units range.

  • HeroofRome1HeroofRome1 Member Posts: 1,423Registered Users
    I take:

    Volkmar on a barded warhorse.
    Light Wizard on a horse.
    4 Knights of the Blazing Sun.
    5 Swordsmen (one being Sigmar's Sons and the rest with silver chevrons).
    2 Crossbowmen.
    1 Silver Bullets.

    This build seems to work quite well against most Wood Elf players who I come across.
    Team Dwarfs, Team Empire, Team Bretonnia Team Grim, Team elf slayers, Team Belegar
  • cuzza4321cuzza4321 Junior Member Posts: 10Registered Users
    Busa1227 said:

    I'm using a build.... A weird build and some people could thing it's really bad but I'm getting pretty good results.

    - Boris on Griffon (regen and foe-seeker).
    - Bright Wizard (yes, I'm not using light wizard in this MU anymore).
    - 4 Empire Swordsmen
    - 2 Greatswords (they are UP, yes, but they could be decent in this MU).
    - 4 Reiksguard Knights.
    - Gunners RoR
    - Whatever you want (I usually pick 2 extra Swordsmen units).

    I was having big issues to win WE as Empire until I started to play with this build, it is not an unbeatable build of course and probably not the best answer to face WE but it's working pretty good for me. At the begin, I thought that Greatswords would be useless in this MU because they could be sniped really easy with archers but then I could see that mixing them with Reiksguard Knights in the center work pretty well, mostly because WE players have to chose between firing Reiksguard units or Greatswords.

    To counter the specific WE build you are describing, I would probably bring more Reiksguard Knights units. BTW, I find Empire skirmish units a waste of money against WE... I only bring gunners RoR and try to keep them save and out of WE Archers units range.

    I think you may be onto something with the bright wizard, but I cant imagine how your cav is going to get around that many eternal guard. 1 unit of eternal guard at 550 cost will beat an 1100 Reiksguard 1 on 1. Lets not mention if they get hit with a volley before hand. I think I like your idea of spamming swordsmen, but the thing is if they take any treekin oh boy you will have a very hard time.
  • SarmatiansSarmatians Posts: 440Registered Users
    And as Wood Elf main player, Empire builds that include 4 units of cavalry are an excellent start. You really don't want fewer than that.
  • Busa1227Busa1227 Posts: 1,970Registered Users
    edited November 14
    @cuzza4321

    Well, think that 1 Empire Swordsmen unit (400) is able to beat 1 shielded Eternal guard unit (550). Treekins are not much popular these days and Lore of Fire is pretty useful against them (same for Silverbullets). As I said before, I'm not using the definitive/best Empire build vs WE, mostly because I think that all Empire builds could be countered by WE and all WE builds could be countered by Empire if you would be able to know it before going to the battle.

    A lot will depend on both players skill, if you charge ahead with your cav units in first line against Eternal Guards, you will probably get wrecked. I haven't played against the specific WE build you are saying but tbh, I don't like this build (I also play as WE sometimes). As long as the Empire player manage to use his cav units effectively, the WE player will have a hard time to protect his archers against 4 Reiksguard units but as I said before, it would depent a lot on both players skill level (don't forget to use burning head against WE boxes).

  • cuzza4321cuzza4321 Junior Member Posts: 10Registered Users
    Busa1227 said:

    @cuzza4321


    A lot will depend on both players skill, if you charge ahead with your cav units in first line against Eternal Guards, you will probably get wrecked. I haven't played against the WE build you are saying but tbh, I don't like this build (I also play as WE sometimes). As long as the Empire player manage to use his cav units effectively, the WE player will have a hard time to protect his archers against 4 Reiksguard units but as I said before, it would depent a lot on both players skill level (don't forget to use burning head against WE boxes).

    The thing is the idea that you cant catch elf infantry, only the cav can, so a good wood elf player can keep kiting and firing their volleys and you either have to commit to silencing his archers or let your army be torn apart. Although, I would enjoy a 1v1 against anybody whos willing to play against various wood elf armies so I can learn weakness' in the match up.
  • SarmatiansSarmatians Posts: 440Registered Users
    That build you mentioned is not a kiting build.
  • Busa1227Busa1227 Posts: 1,970Registered Users
    edited November 14
    @cuzza4321

    Kiting with Glade Guards?, uhmmmmm yes, some few players are maybe able to do it but it doesn't seem like an easy task and it probably wouldn't work if both players have a similar skill level. If you want to bring scouts to kiting the Empire infantry, the WE player would have a shorter and harder army to protect (this doesn't mean that scouts are a bad pick for WE).

    A kiting WE build in good hands would be really hard to face with my Empire build and I probably would need some artillery pieces. The reason because I'm using my current build is because 90% of the WE players I'm facing, bring tons of Dryads, Wardancers, Speardancers and Glady Lord on Dragon. This is the thing mate, there isn't any unbeatable Empire build to face Wood Elves and it's ok in terms of balancing.

  • Rithrin216Rithrin216 Posts: 45Registered Users
    edited November 14
    Volkmar on the Cart is awesome against WE. Just run it along their front line or go after Archers. Then go Flagellants, a couple gunners if they bring Durthu or Treekin, and then whatever cav you want.
  • SarmatiansSarmatians Posts: 440Registered Users

    Volkmar on the Cart is awesome against WE. Just run it along their front line or go after Archers. Then go Flagellants, a couple gunners if they bring Durthu or Treekin, and then whatever cav you want.

    And imagine, just when you're about to reach WE lines, Glady drops Prey of Anaeth Rama and then there's a literally hail of arrows dropping on Volkmar. And maybe a FD sneezes on it, on top.

    Never, ever, ever, ever send isolated units against Wood Elves. Seriously, just don't do that. Even if there's no Glady. Especially not large units, between Speardancers and archers, that's just a recipe for disaster.
  • Rithrin216Rithrin216 Posts: 45Registered Users
    edited November 14

    Volkmar on the Cart is awesome against WE. Just run it along their front line or go after Archers. Then go Flagellants, a couple gunners if they bring Durthu or Treekin, and then whatever cav you want.

    And imagine, just when you're about to reach WE lines, Glady drops Prey of Anaeth Rama and then there's a literally hail of arrows dropping on Volkmar. And maybe a FD sneezes on it, on top.

    Never, ever, ever, ever send isolated units against Wood Elves. Seriously, just don't do that. Even if there's no Glady. Especially not large units, between Speardancers and archers, that's just a recipe for disaster.
    Volkmar on a cart is actually tough to pin down and kill. He can move through your army if you need to get away from units like asrai spears. He has an ability giving him physical resistance. Even when I lose with him he's usually the last one to die. You're really underestimating him.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 1,424Registered Users
    That WE build is not a good build vs empire at all, anyway as Busa said just use the knight to threaten not to actually charge into spearmen, get your swordsmen doing that, knights can charge wardancers and hit back or threaten Archers, Poison arrows are bad aswell.

    The WE build really lacks any way to deal with warmachines if you bring 2 mortars you can decimate his lines, 2 mortarts 4 flaggelants and 4 knight units should be the core of your army, the rest of the points spend on what you want.

    I would personally never use a build like that with WE v Empire, the best WE build vs empire is 1/2 kite build where you have tools to deal with warmachines and knights if needed.
  • ForSigmarForSigmar Junior Member Posts: 196Registered Users
    The build you mentioned would really struggle against artillery(mortars) and then multiple units of cav to threaten and hit his archers. You should always be bringing multiple units of cav against WE so 3-4 Reiks should really be an autoinclude.

    I also agree with busa in that bringing a lore with some strong nuking potential or anti blob spells could be really useful. The ever useful light and net is also never a bad choice as it gives too many options but being able to punish a blob with damage as well as possible source of magic dmg and giving it to units is helpful.

    I have had success with bringing lance DGKs and using them to help frontline not get as devastated but WE has many AL options so you gotta be very specific with how you use them.

    Also Chevs on swordsman can help them hold for a decent amount of time if you are willing to spend a little more
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Posts: 356Registered Users
    Against wood elf I use

    2 to 3 Flagellants
    2 Hellfire Rockets
    2 to 3 cheap cavalry
    Bright wizard

    + some missiles, spears, elites of your choosing

    The flagellants are sacrifice. Run them into the front line and attack that blob with all your ranged. Flank the wood missiles with your cav. Keep the rest of your force out of range. Once you dealt with the bowmen, bring in your rest and mop up survivors
  • ZerglesZergles Member Posts: 1,385Registered Users
    It's expensive, and they may have changed stuff to make it less effective. BUT

    The Sunmaker used to work wonders against Welfs. It didn't matter the ground troops they brought. It hurts everything pretty bad between the low armor elves and the tree units.

    Also, Knights of the Blazing Sun can be really good too. Their fire damages mixed with their good charge bonus is handy.

    And this is just me spitballing ideas here, but has anyone tried pairing Flaggelants with Lore of Shadows' buff spell (overcasted.) Wouldn't that make up for the Flaggies that die on the way to the nain battle, and help them take out Eternal Guard and be on somewhat even footing with Wardancers (for the duration of the spell.)