Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Suggestions for the Slann Mage Priest and non-Dino Lizardmen units

NielspeterdejongNielspeterdejong Posts: 14Registered Users
edited November 16 in Feedback & Suggestions
First of all I’m a huge fan of the way CA has handled the Lizardmen! They are a faction that has some of the best monsters, yet suffers from the rampage mechanic. I like how CA handled this, as Saurus Warriors for instance are strong but in the late game will be kited all over the map. And I do like the different units they can field.

However there were some minor things which I feel would make the Lizardmen experience even more fun. These are meant to make the Lizardmen’s non-dino builds more viable in online battles, as well as make their Campaign experience more rewarding. And I was interested what everyone thought about them?

I made some posts on Reddit asking for feedback, and combined my ideas with theirs. Someone suggested that I forwarded them here, and see what CA thought about them. Also please don't hesistate to let me know what you guys think yourself, or if you have any ideas as well?

SLANN MAGE PRIEST:

This is my biggest issue honestly. I like how the Slann Mage Priests require both a ritual and a special building to summon, as they are meant to be the magical powerhouses of Warhammer. However, they feel really mediocre once summoned. I know we have to keep things balanced, but for such big requirements it would be nice to be rewarded, especially in the late game where your Oldbloods and Priests can ride dinos. I asked around on Reddit and made a summary of their suggestions, how would this sound? (See the changes below UPDATE)

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/7aa3gx/about_the_slann_mage_priests/

To sum it up my idea is to make the Slann Mage Priest more worth it in the campaign by giving them more and cheaper spell options, allow you to recruit older generation Slann based on your total Web strength, and also allow your Star Chamber to boost your Slann as well as your Astromancy Stance. As for online battles I was hoping to give him more spell Lore options and maybe make them treat all their spells as if they were fully upgraded like in the campaign? I added a combination of everyone's ideas in the post, and I'm curious what everyone thinks about them or if someone has some ideas of their own?

KROXIGOR:

I love how CA has designed the Kroxigor, yet I miss the amazing synergy that the Krox and Skinks had in the tabletop: https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2016/8/2/817696_md-Kroxigor, Lizardmen, Sking Cohort, Warhammer Fantasy.jpg as the Kroxigor were designed for such a mixed unit. Perhaps they could gain a situational buff that only activates when Skinks are very close by, so that we could recreate that unit in a way? How does something like this sound:

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/77snds/kroxigor_and_skinks_synergy_from_tabletop/

This is just an example, but I would love it if the Kroxigor could give a small bonus to close non-monster Skinks, while receiving a small boon back. The idea is to make the Kroxigor x Skink Cohort combo more viable for both the mid to late game campaign as well as online battles. Keep in mind that despite the Leadership and MD bonusses they are still Skink Cohorts, so against elite infantry they would still get destroyed.
Also, perhaps we could get future Sacred Spawnings with Armor Sundering? In combination with the low armor piercing Skinks that would be amazing!

SKINK COHORTS (JAVELINS)

I simply love the concept of these guys! And they are just so much fun to use with their javelins! However they are sadly not that competitive, and giving them something like A) poisoned melee attacks or B ) a small true damage bonus against infantry on their javelins would make them a lot more viable! Personally I'd rather have option A then, as you can then choose to field them with Kroxigor as a more expensive yet poisoning melee combo.

TEMPLE GUARD

So I think the Temple Guard are in a good spot, though I'd wish that they could provide a small boon to the easily focussed Slann Mage Priest. Perhaps they could provide a weaker version of the Mirror Guard? Think 15% Ward Save (doesn't stack) to Slann Lords only who are within 20m? Just to add some very situational lore flavor to them. Jabba on his mighty steed wants to move from flank to flank, so he won't make the most use out of it.

TERRADON RIDERS AND SKINK SKIRMISHERS

I like how their models look, and they have such amazing potential for fun builds! However once you find the openings they sadly just don't deal enough damage to warrant their cost. Perhaps they could both gain just a few more models, and allow them to have more of a punch? Especially the Terradon often feels like it just lacks a bit of impact in online battles.

Alternatively, perhaps the Fireleech Bolas could trade in normal damage for more armor piercing damage? And then give the standard Terradon riders a bonus against large? To allow the former to make more of an impact against mid to high tier infantry units, and the latter to gain more impact by being a monster hunter.

BASTILADON WITH REVIVIFICATION CRYSTAL

So this is a bit of a exception, as I wanted to offer suggestions for the non-Dino Lizardmen units. But while I love the Revivification crystal it feels a bit lackbuster in the campaign. Perhaps we could reduce the charges to 5 (down from 10) and instead grant it a short area healing aura that doesn't resurrect models? So that you can't use the ressurection ability to ress units after you routed the enemies army, but also to allow you to send him into a front line engagement and help 1 or two units around it be a bit more durable. While keeping your healing charges for your elite units.


I got some more feedback and I came to agree that the Revivification Bastiladon is in a good spot after all, giving it the area heal would really overpower it.
Alternatively, perhaps the Solar Engine could have the aura from the Steel Faith mod? Where it gives a Vigor and Melee Attack (small) buff in a very small radius? Though I do think that the Solar Engine is in a pretty decent spot, so the buff would have to be low in order to keep the price the same.

CAMPAIGN

As I discussed in my Slann post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/7aa3gx/about_the_slann_mage_priests/ I would love to see the Slann Mage Priest make better use of the Astromancy stance. And lower the movespeed of the Astromancy stance for all lords, as you are so reliant on moving your lords 24/7, that you end up hardly using it. Also, perhaps once you've build the Slann Starchamber, your Astromancy stance could have a small chance to ambush as well? Very minor of course, but which could then be increased slightly for each Star Chamber you build?

Also, how about allowing you to gain bonus global levels per Star Chamber build for your Slann Mage Priest? That way the ritual and the special building that you require will be far more worth it, and you still have to invest into it by building a lot of Star Chambers to make the most out of these upgrades.

Perhaps you can also gain more missions to obtain your blessed spawnings based on your total Geomantic Web strength? So that in the late game you can have more Blessed Spawnings for all of your Lizardmen stacks.

----

These are my personal nit picks, but I do feel that with just these few changes and additions the Lizardmen will feel much more fluent in the campaign, and it would allow non-dino Lizardmen builds to be more viable as well. I based these ideas on my own personal experience, as well as the experience of other players on Reddit. And I decided to combine it all and post it here, to make a single big thread about it. What are your thoughts about these ideas? Or perhaps you have ideas of your own?
Post edited by Nielspeterdejong on

Comments

  • NielspeterdejongNielspeterdejong Posts: 14Registered Users
    edited November 16
    (Woops, accidently posted it here in the comments as well. My bad).
  • NielspeterdejongNielspeterdejong Posts: 14Registered Users
    Also some people have mentioned that they'd love to see Lord Mazdamundi gain Shield of Saphery as his trait instead of Roiling Skies, as the latter is very situational, and with the Lizardmen not having good flying melee units it just doesn't help them that much. Shield of Saphery on the other hand would help them a lot more.
  • NielspeterdejongNielspeterdejong Posts: 14Registered Users
    edited November 20
    And while we are talking about the non-dino Lizardmen units, perhaps we could also discuss Tehenhauin and his possible suggestions? Tehenhauin is basically the equivalent of Lord Skrolk, but instead of Clan Rats perhaps we could make him summon Jungle Swarms?: http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Tehenhauin

    This is all just future speculation, but I would love to see something similar in Tehenhauin as well. Where he would not be able to ride a mount, but would instead have great abilities and spells. While also having a summon spell or ability similar to the Skaven and Vampire counts as he is able to summon Jungle Swarms http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Jungle_Swarms or perhaps even one of the rumored Avatars of Sotek? http://www.lustria-online.com/data/attachments/1/1623-ed0e48641624769ee1cf6c6a191fa0a4.jpg (this unit was rumored when 8th edition came out)

    Perhaps he could have access to the Lore of the Serpent? http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Serpent_Priestesses The Amazons worshipped Sotek as well, so we could then even use that for a possible future Amazons army. Though then again those spells were more meant towards the Amazonians, even if they worshipped Sotek as well.

    So seeing as the spells are more meant for the Amazonians, perhaps we could instead make Tehenhauin more like his original lore? https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer/Tactics/8th_Edition/Lizardmen#Named_Characters here he had access to A) a tide of Serpent, B ) a Ancient Stegadon with an Engine of the Gods on his back who gives all kinds of buffs and abilities. He was also unbreakable, dealt poisoned attacks, and had access to the lore of Beasts.

    Perhaps the Tide of Snakes could provide some protection to him in melee as they might greatly slow enemies who try to wane through them? While the latter will allow him to receive a more active and powerful role? (the snakes were meant to protect Tehenhauin, as they first had to attack the snakes before they could attack him (basically some Jungle Swarms were attached to him). This could just be a Jungle Swarm that is always attacked in an area around him, having surprisingly great mass and making it harder to hit him? The Swarm could push out enemies regardless of mass, and they'd first have to attack the Jungle Swarm before they could do anything to Tehenhauin.

    Regardless, I would love it if Tehenhauin would be able to summon Jungle Swarms like Lord Skrolk can summon Clan rats. And instead of Plague monks, perhaps he could summon those Avatars of Sotek? To give some much needed anti large if you are planning on fielding a Skink Only army (for funzies).
    Maybe the Tide of Serpents could grant him that? Meaning that either A) You gain a tide of Serpent and you are able to summon Jungle Swarms who are squishy but deal great (armor piercing) damage while having good health yet low defensive stats. Or B ) you can put him on a Engine of the Gods, provinding amazing effects: "The Engine of the Gods has mysterious powers that can protect nearby Lizardmen or send rays to smite their foes. Even the Winds of Magic can be better siphoned to aid the casting of spells in the presence of such a potent apparatus."

    Maybe normally he would be without a tide of Serpent while being unbreakable and having only access to the Lore of Beasts but having access to the summoning? Then you can put him on a tide of Serpents which gives him more protection as the tide pushes back enemies with surprising mass, but as they are still a tide of serpents and the enemy can choose to attack the swarm to reduce it's numbers. And then finally he can be put on an Ancient Stegadon with an Engine of the Gods? I think this last idea might be the best to implement, giving him access to 2 unique mounts, while always having the same ability to summon Jungle Swarms and Avatars of Sotek similar to how Lord Skrolk can summon units. The latter would make him very expensive though, but perhaps Tehenhauin could have access to boons for nearby non-monster Skink and Kroxigor units? (in the Table Top he could grant hatred against Skaven to those units), so that you could field a more cost effective main army that would still be viable thanks to his boons?

    Thoughts?
    Post edited by Nielspeterdejong on