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Lizardmen Healing

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  • carnotauruscarnotaurus Posts: 291Registered Users
    I Think they gived them all the healing to make up for lack of lore of life (very popular on tt)
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users

    I Think they gived them all the healing to make up for lack of lore of life (very popular on tt)

    It is a wrong choice still and not fitting tt. So switch healing to rampage immunity etc and it's fixed. Dawi do not have lore of life nor are given heals.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    The general healing plus rampage army mechanic is deftly made. Run away and heal but most of your army will be stuck getting butchered while you're gone...
    Tweaks to the amount, speed, or max of healing are all fine though.
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users

    What if cold blooded was remade and instead stopped rampage on a unit and it made the unit immune to rampage for 60sec with no side effects, seeing as cold blooded on TT had nothing to do with healing but allowing LZM use 3 dice for LD tests and letting them pick the two lowest.

    Cool idea, but it seems like an insane change that risk making Liz terrible.

    Drastic changes such as this one needs to be taken with caution.


    Overall, it seems like an insane nerf imo... hitting the core strength of the faction.


    I'm not saying it couldn't work if other changes are made at the same time, but only implementing it ought to be catastrophic as the faction was clearly balanced by taking the healing into consideration.
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  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users
    Belialxv said:

    What if cold blooded was remade and instead stopped rampage on a unit and it made the unit immune to rampage for 60sec with no side effects, seeing as cold blooded on TT had nothing to do with healing but allowing LZM use 3 dice for LD tests and letting them pick the two lowest.

    Cool idea, but it seems like an insane change that risk making Liz terrible.

    Drastic changes such as this one needs to be taken with caution.


    Overall, it seems like an insane nerf imo... hitting the core strength of the faction.


    I'm not saying it couldn't work if other changes are made at the same time, but only implementing it ought to be catastrophic as the faction was clearly balanced by taking the healing into consideration.
    Well said, this suggestion must happen however as a revisit to the faction as well so it's well made, not imba nor underpowered.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,881Registered Users
    Belialxv said:

    What if cold blooded was remade and instead stopped rampage on a unit and it made the unit immune to rampage for 60sec with no side effects, seeing as cold blooded on TT had nothing to do with healing but allowing LZM use 3 dice for LD tests and letting them pick the two lowest.

    Cool idea, but it seems like an insane change that risk making Liz terrible.

    Drastic changes such as this one needs to be taken with caution.


    Overall, it seems like an insane nerf imo... hitting the core strength of the faction.


    I'm not saying it couldn't work if other changes are made at the same time, but only implementing it ought to be catastrophic as the faction was clearly balanced by taking the healing into consideration.
    Yes but the healing on LZM is unbalanced at the moment hence this topic and cold blooded is an ability that is meant to be offset by the debuff, which at the moment is not due to how/when people use it. Anyway your not wrong about drastic changed that CA might not favour, or make it kind of opposite to my suggestion and ALLOW cold blooded to be used ONLY on rampaging units (keep current effect).
  • AsamuAsamu Posts: 593Registered Users

    Yes but the healing on LZM is unbalanced at the moment hence this topic and cold blooded is an ability that is meant to be offset by the debuff, which at the moment is not due to how/when people use it. Anyway your not wrong about drastic changed that CA might not favour, or make it kind of opposite to my suggestion and ALLOW cold blooded to be used ONLY on rampaging units (keep current effect).

    That would be a bit extreme. The units you want to use it on usually can't rampage. I think just reducing the duration or healing by ~20% would probably be good enough.
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users
    Asamu said:

    Yes but the healing on LZM is unbalanced at the moment hence this topic and cold blooded is an ability that is meant to be offset by the debuff, which at the moment is not due to how/when people use it. Anyway your not wrong about drastic changed that CA might not favour, or make it kind of opposite to my suggestion and ALLOW cold blooded to be used ONLY on rampaging units (keep current effect).

    That would be a bit extreme. The units you want to use it on usually can't rampage. I think just reducing the duration or healing by ~20% would probably be good enough.
    No cause it mustn't heal as healing has nothing to do with the tt ability.
  • PippingtonPippington Posts: 2,026Registered Users
    This is an area where CA made the conscious decision to diverge from the tabletop, I don't think they will walk back that design choice.


    Get on, Kroq-Gar, we're going shopping

  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users

    This is an area where CA made the conscious decision to diverge from the tabletop, I don't think they will walk back that design choice.

    Yet they must.
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users
    Zashzila said:

    Nice to see this thread has devolved into nothing of substance.

    Belialxv said:

    What if cold blooded was remade and instead stopped rampage on a unit and it made the unit immune to rampage for 60sec with no side effects, seeing as cold blooded on TT had nothing to do with healing but allowing LZM use 3 dice for LD tests and letting them pick the two lowest.

    Cool idea, but it seems like an insane change that risk making Liz terrible.

    Drastic changes such as this one needs to be taken with caution.


    Overall, it seems like an insane nerf imo... hitting the core strength of the faction.


    I'm not saying it couldn't work if other changes are made at the same time, but only implementing it ought to be catastrophic as the faction was clearly balanced by taking the healing into consideration.
    I doubt anyone want balance in the thread dude. Its all about deleting lizards from latter. Game forums are depressing.
    Everyone wants balance but also proper made. Also all want the unique nature of factions in its prime.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,881Registered Users
    What if cold blooded was self cast only?
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 4,486Registered Users

    What if cold blooded was self cast only?

    Do that, and/or maybe limit to one use? I don't have a feel for whether this currently is OP but just logically targeting any unit feels too abuseable.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,464Registered Users
    eumaies said:

    What if cold blooded was self cast only?

    Do that, and/or maybe limit to one use? I don't have a feel for whether this currently is OP but just logically targeting any unit feels too abuseable.
    It is currently limited to one use.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,464Registered Users
    CA DEVS

    "Wow guys finally got that healing potion spam that made MP totally not fun under control, good job team it may have taken us the better part of a year but things are good lets start work on TWWH2."

    "What should we do with the lizard men they need a gimmick. Hey this may sound crazy but lets give all their lords and heroes healing potions, and better yet lets make it so you can use them on other units."
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    OdTengri said:

    CA DEVS

    "Wow guys finally got that healing potion spam that made MP totally not fun under control, good job team it may have taken us the better part of a year but things are good lets start work on TWWH2."

    "What should we do with the lizard men they need a gimmick. Hey this may sound crazy but lets give all their lords and heroes healing potions, and better yet lets make it so you can use them on other units."

    Funny. That said, these heals involve a substantial debuff that benefits from disengaging while your rampaging allies get killed.

    Has anyone actually done the math for how much healing cold blooded gives?
  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,464Registered Users
    In seriousness, I agree that it isn't nearly as bad as the Healing Potions, but their certainly is a bit of that narrative involved in it.

    At the end of the day its just hard to balance healing because not every Hit Point is worth the same, 100 HP on Kroq-Gar is not the same as 100 hp on a skink cohort.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    OdTengri said:

    In seriousness, I agree that it isn't nearly as bad as the Healing Potions, but their certainly is a bit of that narrative involved in it.

    At the end of the day its just hard to balance healing because not every Hit Point is worth the same, 100 HP on Kroq-Gar is not the same as 100 hp on a skink cohort.

    Is it really though? I figure you should always balance it based on the toughest unit who is best at running in and out of combat. If I choose to heal a skink cohort instead it's because its mission critical to keep them alive. But either way I will try to maximize my potential value.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,464Registered Users
    Since you can predict that sort of behavior from the player that becomes the default reality.

    In the Vamp thread some are discussing how unfortunate it is that their elite units have to be balanced around Nehek and wish that they could have units that are powerful in their own right with Nehek being mostly used to bolster their fodder troopers.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    OdTengri said:

    Since you can predict that sort of behavior from the player that becomes the default reality.

    In the Vamp thread some are discussing how unfortunate it is that their elite units have to be balanced around Nehek and wish that they could have units that are powerful in their own right with Nehek being mostly used to bolster their fodder troopers.

    Yeah but nehek is AOE so you can get some of both worlds at least.
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Posts: 2,617Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    eumaies said:

    OdTengri said:

    CA DEVS

    "Wow guys finally got that healing potion spam that made MP totally not fun under control, good job team it may have taken us the better part of a year but things are good lets start work on TWWH2."

    "What should we do with the lizard men they need a gimmick. Hey this may sound crazy but lets give all their lords and heroes healing potions, and better yet lets make it so you can use them on other units."

    Funny. That said, these heals involve a substantial debuff that benefits from disengaging while your rampaging allies get killed.

    Has anyone actually done the math for how much healing cold blooded gives?
    It's about 1000 HP.
    OdTengri said:

    Since you can predict that sort of behavior from the player that becomes the default reality.

    In the Vamp thread some are discussing how unfortunate it is that their elite units have to be balanced around Nehek and wish that they could have units that are powerful in their own right with Nehek being mostly used to bolster their fodder troopers.

    It works that way in the tabletop. Monsters, vampiric/etherial/ units, and characters all heal for less than infantry.
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  • ystyst Posts: 6,162Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    Lets just remove lizardman from mp.

    We have skink chief qq.
    Healing qq.
    Kroqgar qq.
    Cham skink qq.

    Its about time ca, remove lizardman. We can stop this 5 pages of total garbage, ca will balance the game however the fanbois git gud group wants.

    Im all in! remove lizardman
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  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users
    yst said:

    Lets just remove lizardman from mp.

    We have skink chief qq.
    Healing qq.
    Kroqgar qq.
    Cham skink qq.

    Its about time ca, remove lizardman. We can stop this 5 pages of total garbage, ca will balance the game however the fanbois git gud group wants.

    Im all in! remove lizardman

    LOL. Ok enough qqing. Like someone said, and it's the right thing according to tt, cold blood needs to give rampage immunity, do this and we are done with it.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,162Registered Users

    yst said:

    Lets just remove lizardman from mp.

    We have skink chief qq.
    Healing qq.
    Kroqgar qq.
    Cham skink qq.

    Its about time ca, remove lizardman. We can stop this 5 pages of total garbage, ca will balance the game however the fanbois git gud group wants.

    Im all in! remove lizardman

    LOL. Ok enough qqing. Like someone said, and it's the right thing according to tt, cold blood needs to give rampage immunity, do this and we are done with it.
    Cold blood is a racial trait, they shouldve never been the garbage it is today. Shouldve always been something as above 50% hp immune to psycho and +10 ld, self heal 1hp per tick, inferior to regen 2hp per tick. This will put them close with beastman +5 att and elven 12d martial prowess which r both powerhouse traits. Esp the beastman one.
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  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 4,171Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    yst said:

    yst said:

    Lets just remove lizardman from mp.

    We have skink chief qq.
    Healing qq.
    Kroqgar qq.
    Cham skink qq.

    Its about time ca, remove lizardman. We can stop this 5 pages of total garbage, ca will balance the game however the fanbois git gud group wants.

    Im all in! remove lizardman

    LOL. Ok enough qqing. Like someone said, and it's the right thing according to tt, cold blood needs to give rampage immunity, do this and we are done with it.
    Cold blood is a racial trait, they shouldve never been the garbage it is today. Shouldve always been something as above 50% hp immune to psycho and +10 ld, self heal 1hp per tick, inferior to regen 2hp per tick. This will put them close with beastman +5 att and elven 12d martial prowess which r both powerhouse traits. Esp the beastman one.
    Nice suggestion. I hope the better suggestions always be applied.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,464Registered Users
    Coldblooded should have just reduced the amount of time spent routing or otherwise help them rally, that would have been a more accurate interpretation.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

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