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Chaos: 1 suggestion and one bug

SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,659Registered Users
First my suggestion:

With the Foundation and the Reprisal Update you have removed the "pure sack" option from Chaos and moved everything to "Loot & Raze" and "Raze", just like with the Beastmen.
I personally am not a fan of this system.
The sack option allowed Chaos to maximize income, horde growth and lord leveling (am not talking about constantly sacking the same settlement over and over again), which not only sped up the gameplay, but also allowed for a faster development of a second army.

So I think it would be great to have it back as an additional option again.
Chaos player would then have 3 options after non-norsca-tribe city (the ones where you awaken the tribes): Sack, Loot & Raze and Raze

That way people who like the playstyle of razing a city in one turn would be content and players who like to sack in one turn and raze the other would be fine, too.




Now on to the bug.
The trait "Infernal Dominance" Exalted Heroes can get doesn't work currently.
The trait is supposed to give +5 Melee Attack to the Lord's Amry.



A normal Chaos Warrior has a Melee Attack of 34



And it stays at 34 with the Exalted Hero embedded to the army, while it should be at 39



I went into a battle to see if it's the same there and it yes, it's still the same Melee Attack




The attached save-game is from that Chaos campaign
Disclaimer: What I say is my opinion and not necessarily stated as fact.

Comments

  • permanentquandarypermanentquandary Posts: 24Registered Users
    edited November 2017
    Hi

    I am experiencing the exact same thing and I'm so glad you posted this.

    My absolute favourite trait for Chaos is Infernal Dominance (+5 MA) and Disciplined for other factions (+2 MA +2 Leadership) and I even go so far as to try my best not to recruit lords or heroes with any starting trait other than those!

    The great thing about these traits is they stack. Infernal Dominance can stack, so you could have 2 Exalted Heroes, 1 Chaos Sorcerer, for a massive +15 melee attack, which is obscenely OP :smiley:

    To demonstrate a repetition of this bug, I'll post screenshots after this post.

    By the way I initially agreed with your point about Sack, to the extent that I have previously DM'd the TW Twitter channel to beg they reinsert the option, but having played WH2 Mortal Empires for probably longer than WH1 now, I actually disagree.

    Here's why.

    Firstly in the original WH1, colonisation didn't happen as frequently, mainly because factions were limited as to which settlements they could capture based on the previously unspecified and then extreme climate restrictions. But in WH2, AI factions are now capturing all settlements without prejudice. So it's actually really rare that a settlement will go uncolonised for very long. In the case of Chaos, the Baersonling Camp if left unsupported by the player usually gets razed by someone, and then either Varg, Kislev or Kraka Drak will come colonise. So what this means is, you get to loot and raze or raze in the future anyway, if you really need some favour or horde growth.

    Secondly, the prior system that allowed Sack alone was far too exploitable, insofar as one could camp outside a sacked settlement and cycle sack for turns on end, purely for XP farming.

    Finally, it just isn't lore friendly to have a sack only option. Chaos destroys everything in its wake. It doesn't run and come back later.

    Again, thanks for the post, and I hope my view on the sacking thing gives you another perspective to consider.
  • permanentquandarypermanentquandary Posts: 24Registered Users
    edited November 2017





    Here's those pictures reproducing the bug. No +10 Melee Attack here.


    Also, note that a Greenskin faction has moved into Baersonling Camp, reinforcing my point about more frequent colonisation in WH2 meaning Sack only is not required.
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,659Registered Users
    edited November 2017


    By the way I initially agreed with your point about Sack, to the extent that I have previously DM'd the TW Twitter channel to beg they reinsert the option, but having played WH2 Mortal Empires for probably longer than WH1 now, I actually disagree.

    Here's why.

    Firstly in the original WH1, colonisation didn't happen as frequently, mainly because factions were limited as to which settlements they could capture based on the previously unspecified and then extreme climate restrictions. But in WH2, AI factions are now capturing all settlements without prejudice. So it's actually really rare that a settlement will go uncolonised for very long. In the case of Chaos, the Baersonling Camp if left unsupported by the player usually gets razed by someone, and then either Varg, Kislev or Kraka Drak will come colonise. So what this means is, you get to loot and raze or raze in the future anyway, if you really need some favour or horde growth.

    I personally see the overly aggressive recolonization from the AI, especially in unsuitable climate, as a problem that needs to be looked at, too.
    Secondly, it makes you dependent on the AI
    Thirdly, while you may be able to do that, it usually takes longer, forces you to go back on the map, etc. So it is less efficient.
    Fourthly, when you wiped out the opposition there and it's your allies who resettle you would have to go to war with them receive both.
    Secondly, the prior system that allowed Sack alone was far too exploitable, insofar as one could camp outside a sacked settlement and cycle sack for turns on end, purely for XP farming.
    That's not a Chaos problem though. It is a problem for every faction with the sack option and for some this abuse is even more beneficial than for Chaos (e.g. Queek sacking Mount Arachnos over and over again for not only money and xp, but food and relationship bonuses with the undead factions, too.
    Singling one faction out for a system that everyone can abuse would be absurd.
    Finally, it just isn't lore friendly to have a sack only option. Chaos destroys everything in its wake. It doesn't run and come back later.
    It's the only point I agree. It really isn't perfectly lore friendly, but somehow that bothered no-one so far when it was still there. "A lot" of people just wanted a "loot & raze" option to be able to proceed faster.
    Post edited by Sagranda on
    Disclaimer: What I say is my opinion and not necessarily stated as fact.
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,659Registered Users
    edited November 2017
    nothing to see here, something bugged out it seems
    Disclaimer: What I say is my opinion and not necessarily stated as fact.
  • ClangersClangers Posts: 7Registered Users
    As far as I know any traits which say they effect 'lord's army' do not work on a hero, there's quite a few.
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,659Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    Clangers said:

    As far as I know any traits which say they effect 'lord's army' do not work on a hero, there's quite a few.

    Just tested it with a Skink Chief and the "Disciplined" trait.
    So +2 Melee Attack and +2 Leadership for tht Lords army.
    Stats didn't change, so it seems you're right
    Disclaimer: What I say is my opinion and not necessarily stated as fact.
  • permanentquandarypermanentquandary Posts: 24Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    If that is the case, then Heroes should not be able to have a trait which is useless.

    It's bad enough that many of the traits are already close to worthless, but to have no effect whatsoever is even worse.

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