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Total War: WARHAMMER II - Development Update

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  • TheGhostOfProman16TheGhostOfProman16 Senior Member Posts: 1,749Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    Steamage said:

    They probably seem to have planned nothing until May.



    From that reply it basically means they're rebuilding Norsca from scratch man that code must of been a nightmare when they first tried to bring it over
    Died during the great YOYO wars
  • Reaper49Reaper49 Posts: 716Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    Is this a joke? Norsca may 2018? No words........really this was my last pre order and thats because im huge fan of warhammer. I was told my self never do that after rome 2 launch but warhammer 1 hit a soft spot. I have 1130 hours on warhammer 1 and i was waiting this combine map like a 5 years old child and on game 2 i have 170 hours and feels like game is dead. All the fans are asking for a fix on the bugs that exist 2 months now and nothing, the pre order bonus gone, you will get it after 6 months pffff. Goodluck. Just like a guy said before pathetic.
  • StephinceStephince Posts: 2,426Registered Users
    Let's hope TK is amazing and lots of content. Looks like we are going to need something to keep us going until summer.
  • Fraxure022Fraxure022 Posts: 80Registered Users
    I can't imagine many other gaming companies so openly discussing their mistakes. Can you imagine Blizzard posting something like this? I sure can't. I am genuinely impressed by the honesty on display here, and as such, I will keep my criticism as gentle as possible.

    Norsca coming in May is not cool. The combined campaign map with all the races was part of the original sales pitch for Total Warhammer. The Norsca delay is, to me, symptomatic of the fact that they are not recognizing the importance of this. They continuously choose to create mini-campaigns and whatever the Vortex qualifies as instead of making the sandbox campaign as feature complete and polished as possible. This is extremely disappointing to me.

    I am actually happy to read that they are choosing to, after the January DLC, focus on implementing Norsca instead of releasing more DLC. I would have been mildly insulted as a paying customer had they pumped out a ton of DLC while not implementing the content I paid for. To those who claim that "you got the content you paid for, its in TWW1 as advertised", I would like to point out that you are deliberately ignoring the marketing around TWW, which always pitched the combined sandbox for the three games. People who purchased Norsca did so assuming in good faith that they would be implemented in a timely manner into Mortal Empires. Eight months is not a timely manner. You can say that the assumption was a mistake on the part of the customer, and you'd be right, but good business rewards customer trust. I know I will be carefully evaluating my purchases for this game due to this situation, and will be hesitant to pre-order.

    Now, gripes out of the way, I have two questions that I don't expect to get answered but would be over the moon if they were.

    1: Will we, at some point in the future, be looking at updates for Old World factions? This can include campaign mechanics, roster updates or Legendary Lords? Knowing that this was going to happen would make me a very happy customer. (Beastmen monsters? Please?)

    2: Currently, it seems to be impossible to mod the game to make settlements change over into the occupying race. I know this has been divisive on the forums, but there's not really a good argument for it to not be modable. Will the framework for this be made more mod friendly in a future update, so that those of us who prefer the system from TWW1 can have it back?
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Posts: 1,343Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    Well, it looks like I'm going to have to say something this time. Watching in the wings "just ain't gonna cut it".
    *sighs and reaches for giant mug of tea*

    When I was small, my dad introduced me to a lot of board games. 'Hero Quest' and 'Shogun' were chief among them as personal favourites. Later, he also introduced me to 'Citadel' miniatures and 'Games Workshop'. Naturally, I loved 'Shogun: Total War' when it came out and the idea of a 'Warhammer' 'Total War' game was the kind of wet dream that would have made me bin my own sheets.

    I don't bring that up to say I'm some kind of expert here. I do it to explain that I went into this with rose-tinted, teary-eyed nostalgia. In some ways, maybe I am biased and incapable of hating on a game that brings together some of my favourite childhood memories in such a way. It is like these games were specifically tailored to me and to my own personal taste.

    I played the first game like it was (insert inappropriate narcotic reference here) and racked up over a thousand hours in between work, sleep and making tea.

    When I found out about the Norsca DLC, I was delighted because it would give me another fix to tide me over until the second game came out. That's all I really thought it was, although obviously I knew ME would be along eventually. When I found out there were fimir in it, I ran out of my flat and danced around the Scottish countryside like a tone-deaf Disney Princess who'd discovered a cure for aging and knew she was "in the money".

    So... yeah, I get it. No fimir in game 2 for a while. It sucks. My cyclopean reptile thugs with tail ornaments are going to have to wait before getting to grips with their soft, southern, two-eyed cousins.

    I understand those who are waiting for a more polished version of ME. I am too, but partly because I'm still enjoying the Vortex stuff... despite the Chaos/Skaven ritual spawn that simply turn up in a few random spots and annoy me in a slightly contrived "I won't take those settlements, cos they'll only get spammed when I push this button" kind of way. Despite my archers not firing at troops on battlements on certain maps (Skaven settlements?). Despite my boys stopping their pursuit of a fleeing unit because a handful of random enemy got in their way.

    The fact is, despite the issues, these games have been fantastic for me and by far the most hours of enjoyable play per Charlemagne.

    So... CA? You had an issue? You made a c***-up? What kind of a person would I be if I lambasted you for it after all these hours of fun? Thanks a million for this game and, please, keep plugging away!
  • RustedybaRustedyba Posts: 81Registered Users

    Jastall said:

    I appreciate the transparency and understand that technical issues are a thing, especially with a project as ambitious as ME. But more than half a year to implement Norsca -game 2's pre-order bonus no less- is not really acceptable. To say nothing of the fact that patches seem to arrive more slowly than for WH1.

    In these conditions, I'll be very hesitant to buy new DLC for WH2 until Mortal Empires is a complete package. And I certainly hope CA learns from their mistakes in the future.

    Wanna back off a little? Damn
    They admitted they were wrong and learned from it. They won't make the same mistake.

    People here who are critical of them are doing it because they don't fully understand the situation CA are in.

    From a software development standpoint it's a right PITA keeping track of all these builds. But merging old builds with newly update and improved builds? That sounds like a nightmare to me. I may not have the most software development experience but as a programmer with some experience as an internship overseeing how development work's, I can only imagine how much hell those workers are in for. So much so they said they are working from scratch. If that alone doesn't tell you how complex games are, the fact they would rather start from scratch than to fix it. Then you'll never understand. There's a reason Game Development is amongst the most DIFFICULT software development job there is. Games are some of the most complex programs on the planet.

    You can forgive them for not seeing how difficult the merger would be. Yeah you gave them money over the years yadada whatever. Doesn't change anything tbh. They are professional developers and very good ones at that as far as I can tell based off job listings and people I've talked to in the industry, if they didn't see it than I doubt most would have. They knew it would be difficult, always is, but as they said as they realized how every step the integration got more unstable and game breaking, they knew they messed up.


    The only thing CA are responsible for and should be held accountable for is that they have the past year or so dropped the ball on COMMUNICATION with there community. That's their only fault. For anybody who thinks it's more, well you're opinion is yours and my experience tells me you are basing your opinion off feelings without fully understanding development.


    @CA_Whelan I hope you read this. I know you're inbox and job is probably miserable right now. But just know there are a few who understand your situation. I only ask in the future you improve on communication with this community. I understand everything else you are going through and it's difficulty. I wish you guys good luck on that. Sounds like a nightmare and remember to stay in good health. Crunch time is not going to be fun.

    Yeah they learnt on mistakes from Empire Total War realising Napoleon, Rome II realising Attila, on Warhammer I and its prereleased bonus as Chaos so they seem to learn on mistakes all the time........
  • CrazyeightCrazyeight Posts: 336Registered Users

    I just play Multiplayer so waiting for the Anniversary RoR was what disappointed me the most because it affects 4 Races. I can wait for Norsca but I stopped playing the game about 2-3 weeks ago because I didn't enjoy playing the WH1 DLC races without the Anniversary RoR. The game just felt incomplete.

    Same here!
  • NeverBackDownNeverBackDown Senior Member Posts: 1,824Registered Users
    Malcoach said:

    Krabbz said:

    CA_Whelan said:

    Where is 30th anniversary regiments of renown..??

    The 30th regiments will come along with Norsca
    That's a joke...

    TW:WH2 is a fail.
    I haven't played the ME campaign considering how bad and shallow it is compared to what you promised. And I barely played the Vortex campaign since the only thing I want is ME.
    And now I learn that I won't be playing it until at least May...

    No more preorder, no more instabuy DLC. I'll get it cheaper with unofficial sellers.
    I'm done supporting this ****.
    So you haven't played a ME campaign because of the things you've heard second-hand on the internet that it doesn't deliver on the promises made by the developers.

    You 'barely played' the Vortex campaign - which is the actual main campaign of the second game and where most of the new features can be found.

    And based on your, by your own admission, very limited experience, you've deemed TW:WH2 to be a failed game.

    This is the hardest I've rolled my eyes in a while, thank you for that.
    I know right? Gamer logic like I said earlier. I'm a gamer as well. Was born a gamer and always will be, but this gaming community is passionate as they should be, but my my has it turned into something else these past years.
  • karge068karge068 Senior Member Posts: 1,229Registered Users
    Disappointing, but well explained and with an apology, so I'm good.

    Although I'm still not clear why ROR are taking so long.....
    KGpoopy said:

    "We’re also bundling in a free, new (and highly experimental!) game mode which we’ve had in our back pocket for a while now."

    killable LLs? please

    I reckon it will be an endless wave battle mode
  • NeverBackDownNeverBackDown Senior Member Posts: 1,824Registered Users
    karge068 said:

    Disappointing, but well explained and with an apology, so I'm good.

    Although I'm still not clear why ROR are taking so long.....

    KGpoopy said:

    "We’re also bundling in a free, new (and highly experimental!) game mode which we’ve had in our back pocket for a while now."

    killable LLs? please

    I reckon it will be an endless wave battle mode
    I think they should just drop Norsca ROR and put in everything else. But that's creating more work and may just end up hurting everything. We don't know how there builds are in regards to the 30 ROR being integrated so deeply with Norsca's build.
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKPosts: 36,155Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Postes edited or removed - apologies to anyone that got caught in the crossfire. Please keep the personal sniping off the forums.

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

    |Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi

    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

    "We wunt be druv". iot6pc7dn8qs.png
  • RuskRusk Posts: 45Registered Users
    We all make mistakes, and not having Norsca is not the end of the world. But could you at least try to do a better job at patching Mortal Empires, better communication would be appreciated as well.
  • yukishiro1yukishiro1 Member Posts: 480Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    Well, at least CA finally owned up to what sounds like a pretty massive error on their part. I guess it somewhat explains why it has taken months to put in content that ought to have taken a couple days at the most.

    Still don't see how it took them months to figure this out, though. It shold have taken a couple days to figure out that the normal merge wasn't going to work, if it really wasn't going to work. Why they spent months fiddling around with it only to give up is pretty inexplicable.

    The timeline is intensely disappointing, though. When you've screwed up something on this level, you should really be investing all your time and energy into fixing it, not into putting out new games to siphon up more $.

    It cannot take 6 months to put a single faction back into WHII that already exists in WH1. It just can't. The only reason it takes that long is that they are not assigning enough people to it and not making it a priority. There is really no excuse why it shouldn't be ready at the same time TKs is, or at least shortly thereafter, even taking at face value their explanation; just integrate it at the point of TKs. Clearly it is possible to add a race at the time they're adding TKs since that is exactly what they are doing by adding TKs.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Posts: 10,155Registered Users
    Found this thanks to Loremaster of Soteks Discord:
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?

    GHAL MARAZ IS THE WEAPON OF THE SETTING! YET SOME BRETONNIAN SWORD IS MORE POTENT?! BUFF GHAL MARAZ IN SIGMAR'S NAME!
  • SudoKnightlyNonsenseSudoKnightlyNonsense Posts: 1,818Registered Users

    No Norsca till May you need to be kidding!!! So we will have anoyinng chariot spam till May? You guys are horrible in doing your job, I hope somebody paid with his head for it.

    They messed up. They admitted it. They'll do better next time. No need to put their heads on a chopping block, mate..
    No, they won't: they're trying to calm people down and make us forget about it so that they're free to screw up like this again.
  • LestaTLestaT Senior Member Posts: 3,284Registered Users

    Do really Norsca race is so important, i understand the foundation update , but really a single race from 13 ?

    It's about balancing up north of the nap. Without Norsca, there's basically Varg, Skaelling and Mung now in ME.

    With Norsca, regardless whether you play them or not will open up more variance od factions up north. Even playing as Chaos is more interesting with various Norscan factions around.

    That's why for now I'm only playing favtions that started in the southern part of the map because by the time you reach north it would not be matter anymore.
  • zinsncabszinsncabs Posts: 670Registered Users


    I'm so done with you.

    Promises, promises~

    TEARS FOR THE SALT GOD !!! MODS FOR THE BUTHURT !!!
  • LestaTLestaT Senior Member Posts: 3,284Registered Users

    I mean what kind of answer is that? Thank you for beeing honest with us? Thank you that you told us the truth about this disaster? Give me a break... it is a disaster no matter what... I pre-ordered TW: Warhammer II on the first day to get Norsca, I pre ordered all you stuff, and now you tell me I have to wait till summer next year to get it back?

    And don´t tell me Norsca was for the first game... no one on this earth would ever paid for Norsca if it was clear that they are not going to made it in game 2.

    You didnt play Norsca in game 1? I did 2 tours with them. Afterall, that's what preorder bonus is all about.
  • CrazyeightCrazyeight Posts: 336Registered Users
    LestaT said:

    I mean what kind of answer is that? Thank you for beeing honest with us? Thank you that you told us the truth about this disaster? Give me a break... it is a disaster no matter what... I pre-ordered TW: Warhammer II on the first day to get Norsca, I pre ordered all you stuff, and now you tell me I have to wait till summer next year to get it back?

    And don´t tell me Norsca was for the first game... no one on this earth would ever paid for Norsca if it was clear that they are not going to made it in game 2.

    You didnt play Norsca in game 1? I did 2 tours with them. Afterall, that's what preorder bonus is all about.
    Yes I enjoyed my several hours of this short pleasure. I used to play MP, so I don't care about campaign
  • GrudgeNLGrudgeNL Senior Member Posts: 7,178Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    Thank you for the honesty CA! Six months though.. ouch.. I don't think many people will appreciate that (although it seems people on facebook are far more calm compared to this forum). No matter how you communicate it. Seems like people have already made preparations to review bomb on Steam, as per usual.

    Would it be possible to release Norsca in two chunks via a beta? Where the last chunk is released in May (which seems inevitable). Idk, just throwing some ideas out there.
    Grudge's Mods
    Total War: Karling - Coming soon...-ish
    Grudge's Total War: Attila - Sassanid UI skin here on the Steam Workshop
  • LestaTLestaT Senior Member Posts: 3,284Registered Users

    LestaT said:

    I mean what kind of answer is that? Thank you for beeing honest with us? Thank you that you told us the truth about this disaster? Give me a break... it is a disaster no matter what... I pre-ordered TW: Warhammer II on the first day to get Norsca, I pre ordered all you stuff, and now you tell me I have to wait till summer next year to get it back?

    And don´t tell me Norsca was for the first game... no one on this earth would ever paid for Norsca if it was clear that they are not going to made it in game 2.

    You didnt play Norsca in game 1? I did 2 tours with them. Afterall, that's what preorder bonus is all about.
    Yes I enjoyed my several hours of this short pleasure. I used to play MP, so I don't care about campaign
    Then you should already get what you bought and preordered for already. You can still MP Norsca in game 1. If you cant fi nd anyone to fight with, look for me.
  • SeetheSeethe Posts: 185Registered Users
    edited December 2017
    Guys, it's pretty obvious why they won't give us the 30 anniversary RoR. The reason they won't implement the RoR patch, is because Norsca RoR is tied to it, and they're too lazy to split it from the other factions. They'd much rather copy/paste it in may, when Norsca is out. That's why. :)

    And that's why I won't spend a single dime on Warhammer 2 til it gets fixed, and the old world races are updated to be on par with the new world races. I'm so glad I have so many other good games to play atm.
  • GunKingGunKing Posts: 581Registered Users
    This update will include Norsca and its full roster, updates to various aspects of the race (eg techs, New World race interactions) to make them appropriate and relevant as well as the 30th birthday Regiments of Renown. There will also be further updates to other aspects of Mortal Empires.


    This made me very happy to read. I hope it's more than just Norsca that gets these New World race interactions, it's absurd that Dwarfs have nothing to say to the Elves.

    No Norsca for a while is very crushing. If it was any other DLC race I wouldn't mind, but Norsca did so much for enlivening the north of the map. I don't play Malekith in ME for exactly this reason. So glad I didn't uninstall Warhammer 1, never thought the sequel would be missing so much!
  • RazmirthRazmirth Posts: 2,178Registered Users
    “It’s quite exciting to go back to ROME II with Empire Divided. We’ve seen pleasantly surprised reactions from Total War players across the board, especially from historical fans who may have been feeling a little left out over the course of WARHAMMER I and II”.

    THIS. More this. And then some more.

    I’m a huge warhammer fan and I wanna see more stuff too. But remember everyone, there’s other fans and players who support other products from CA. In fact, historical players of total war long supported the scene and series before the warhammer (and subsequently warhammer fans) got into the scene more.

    Let’s all remember to respect both sides, and just enjoy what we have for now. They will get things fixed and dlc will come! Let the other fans, who are just as dedicated as we are, have their turn in the sun.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 7,236Registered Users
    Thanks for manning up and being straight with us, CA/Sega. You should have done it right from the start, though. Next time you screw up (and you will, everyone does), just come out about it right away -- none of this trying to C.Y.A. crap --- it never works and just stinks all the worse later.

    I'm still not buying any Total War stuff til Norsca is in and the old world races are balanced and up to snuff with the game two races in Mortal Empires, though. BUT... at least I'll buy it eventually, since you guys took responsibility.

    Well... except the Saga game. I'm so effing tired of mini campaigns... just, no thank you. I'd rather you guys had spent that money making the British factions fleshed out and up to snuff for the grand campaigns of Rome 2 and Attila instead -- massively missed opportunity, there!

    Vortex is seriously a mini campaign, btw. Nicely disguised, but it doesn't fool me. Maybe consider making "warhammer 3" just a friggin' DLC for game 2 like game 2 shoulda been for game 1. Shogun 2 got it right... you can see it right in the steam library --- it's all under "Shogun 2" there aren't different games for each campaign!

    Any way [/rant] and what not.

    Thanks again for 'fessing up.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 7,236Registered Users

    5 months to implement Norsca and ROR ? That must be a joke. Yet Norsca was Warhammer II pre-order bonus !! It's not any random DLC from Warhammer 1. Honnestly, this is just disrespectful for the players.

    5 months to re-develop the whole thing for Game 2 and add some new Game 2 specific stuff into it, test it, and balance it. Given what they're having to do it's not really that surprising a time-frame. Just an unfortunate one.
  • antony23antony23 Junior Member Posts: 245Registered Users

    I’m unsure if I should put down my pitch fork or raise it higher

    exactly my thoughts
    I'm blind not deaf
  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Posts: 1,808Registered Users
    Disappointed to hear that I won't play much of the game until May, especially that the RoR will take another six months to port, but really appreciate the honest post and level of detail; more of this in future please.

    There was a request to include the assets in a patch so as modders can work with them. This would be a nice touch if possible.
  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Posts: 1,808Registered Users

    Am I the only who hates the new roster of Norsca? Too monsters in there, I always thougth in norscan armies as many barbarians aspiring to become Chaos Warriors with some mammoths here and there and some werewolves and monsters as special or singular unis, but I never thougth in norscan armies like a spam of cyclops and werewolves. I hope when Norsca comes, not all norscan factions comes with the new roster, and some of them keep the actual roster.


    No, you're not - unfortunately a lot of factions went the same way in late editions though, so this is a common theme - can't say I'm overly excited for Tomb Kings for the same reason.

    Still, the additional human units they created for Norsca were excellent and allowed my own armies to be themed that way.
  • MrMecHMrMecH Posts: 2,135Registered Users
    So Tomb King coming next month. Can't wait for them.

    Also Old Races frequency update in ME. :)
    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

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