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Settlements should change their skins... i'm sick of these flags lol

xXAlduin99xXAlduin99 Posts: 134Registered Users
I'm serious. in my first campaign ( vortex, of course) , I was like "hmm, okay its fitting and i like that colonial style, nice"
its fitting, because in Vortex you don't want to conquer a big empire. you want to control important settlements as colonies and making the rituals. its not "The Great Sandbox Campaign" you know? it dont have to be, because we have ME.

and now, after a lot of time playing in ME... i'm so extremly sick of that flags. really, i'm starting to hate these. seeing Lyonesse conquered by Mousillon in early game, and then coming back in turn 120, and its STILL a bretonnia castle.. arrrgh its hurting... you will never see a vampified bretonnia, or a bretonnian Empire... and so on..

or the wood elves are living in these castles etc. ... remember that Outpost skin? it was beautiful. its gone.

dwarfs living in orc camps are also a little bit... meh...

or seeing Lahmia or Khemri, big vampire cities (currently), in uncorrupted lands (normal desert) conquered by kroq qar. conquer them in turn 50...
if you look at it in turn 250, they will still be a vampire city. and then its again.. aaaargh.. so hurting. btw: the vampire city model looks terrible in uncorrupted lands.

mortal empires is all about conquer an empire. and whats up with your empire? yeah, if you are choosing bretonnia, your peasents will live in the vampire city mousillon forever.

and btw, if your zoom out, you can't even see the flags at the first look. on some settlements you can't see them even if you zoom in, because the settlement is rotated. and some flags are also looking ugly (the empires flags are not fitting, at all)

seriously. i can't stand it anymore. and if you think "ITZ NOT REALISTIC MEH".. think again. realistic would be: buildings of your race on the ground of building from the race, that orginally owned it, calculated by settlements tier & the number of buildings you builded in it. for every single combination. of course, this would be too much.

so i have some ideas...

1. change it instantly, like in wh1. simple... but a little bit too simple. so this would be lame.
2. change it after 10 turns. or 15.
3. YOU have to change it. like in rome 2 & attila. converting the settlement you know?
4. keep it as it is and make it modable.

but really, dark elves living in high elve castles are soo immersion breaking. dark elves like it.. dark. and you really think they are like "hmm, its shiny bright like a summer day, lets live here forever and don't change anything lol!" ?

and i know the siege battle problem.

1. do it like wh1. yeah.. not the best idea.
2. keep everything- except the wall, towers and buildings getting replaced by the race. for example: having imperial towns in jungle. in mousillons case, if you conquer-convert it as bretonnia, you wouldnt see any difference, because mousillon is in bretonnia.
3. all races have a city layout. the ground (like desert, jungle, etc.) will be "shifted" under it.

wh2 has amazing campaign settlement models. these flags are soo... they are like Beta. and there are made like "oh, we have to do something, so here, go the easiest way and place that flags there, its fine lol"

its a downgrade. and wh2 is the sequel of wh1. i just don't accept it.

of course, you can try to make that "dynamic settlement change" happen. but i guess its unrealistic.
so please CA. do something. but don't leave it as it is.

and don't use that lore argument. its a Game. if it would 100% stick to the lore, the game wouldnt be total war anymore. before you crying "LORE", take a look on the other total wars.

BTW
go away with this mod. i have seen it. its not the modders fault (its just not modable, modders are not wizards) but its looking like a big bug. and as far as i know, some races don't work (lizardmen and dark elves, if i remember correctly, and the flags will still spawn- no go away with this please.)

i want a REAL solution for this strange thing.
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Comments

  • FossowayFossoway Posts: 2,415Registered Users
    It's not really lore breaking because it's essentially just occupied cities. When dark elves captures an asur settlement, they are not going to tear down every building and build everything back again. That's just not efficient.

    Thing is, it was fine in WH1 with a few races, but at the end we are looking at more than 16 races. Making unique settlements for each of them would be tedious as f***, and personally I'd rather they divert their time into other aspects of the game that are more important.
  • coury97coury97 Junior Member Posts: 607Registered Users
    Fossoway said:

    It's not really lore breaking because it's essentially just occupied cities. When dark elves captures an asur settlement, they are not going to tear down every building and build everything back again. That's just not efficient.

    Thing is, it was fine in WH1 with a few races, but at the end we are looking at more than 16 races. Making unique settlements for each of them would be tedious as f***, and personally I'd rather they divert their time into other aspects of the game that are more important.

    It is true that there are more important issues, but, and think of it, the siege maps are all the same, the only thing that change is the buildings, but the position of towers, the curve of the walls, the corners, all are equal in a rational manner.

    I know they made them by hand, but they could be more "creative"in that aspect of the game, there is just no difference between the maps, the only thing i guess there are the Fortress Gates, and even then, the Fortress Gates are exactly the same for each of them, besides that there are 4, not 5 as it should be.

    And while i'm at it, it's pretty dissapointing that the Phoenix Gate gets the "Eagle" ability to spawn eagles, the same for the Unicorn Gate, andthe others, like there is nothing to differentiate them from each other.

    I want to clarify that i'm very happy with the game, and they have done a great job with it, but there are this things, like they haven't inmmerse themselves into their own game so much to give flavour for some aspects.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,941Registered Users
    Unfortunately (as you've acknowledged) the problem is simple; the maps are hand made thus meaning they can't change building types.

    In regards to variety I'm content with it, there's actually quite a bit of it. Comparing defending 1 sided wall to a 2 or 3 sided it's quite a different experience. Aside from that the differences in the factions themselves serve to differentiate sieges from one another. Even the space behind the walls is relatively varied. The loremaster capital has it so defending from within the walls is viable, while it's not really so for a lot of other maps.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,924Registered Users
    I do miss it but other issues are more important atm.
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • Fraxure022Fraxure022 Posts: 80Registered Users
    I am 100% behind this. At the very least, it should be modable so that players can have it however they want. It is, hands down, the biggest frustration with TWWII I have. It may seem silly to some players, but it is important to me. I t is a fundamental part of the sandbox experience for me, and I want it back. I could tolerate it in Vortex because that was more story driven, but in the sandbox, it kills my immersion. Please, can we have this modable? Pretty please?
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,337Registered Users

    I am 100% behind this. At the very least, it should be modable so that players can have it however they want. It is, hands down, the biggest frustration with TWWII I have. It may seem silly to some players, but it is important to me. I t is a fundamental part of the sandbox experience for me, and I want it back. I could tolerate it in Vortex because that was more story driven, but in the sandbox, it kills my immersion. Please, can we have this modable? Pretty please?

    There's already a mod out there for this.

  • blaatblaat Junior Member Posts: 3,063Registered Users

    I am 100% behind this. At the very least, it should be modable so that players can have it however they want. It is, hands down, the biggest frustration with TWWII I have. It may seem silly to some players, but it is important to me. I t is a fundamental part of the sandbox experience for me, and I want it back. I could tolerate it in Vortex because that was more story driven, but in the sandbox, it kills my immersion. Please, can we have this modable? Pretty please?

    There's already a mod out there for this.
    indeed it is here
    I agree with the OP tough
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1185917403&searchtext=

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • PancakesPancakes Posts: 377Registered Users
    I thought they were aware of this, and will fix it "at a later date" but it just isn't high on the priority list.
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Posts: 3,063Registered Users
    Pancakes said:

    I thought they were aware of this, and will fix it "at a later date" but it just isn't high on the priority list.

    it is intended and none where did they say it is going to be fixed sorry

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • Fraxure022Fraxure022 Posts: 80Registered Users

    I am 100% behind this. At the very least, it should be modable so that players can have it however they want. It is, hands down, the biggest frustration with TWWII I have. It may seem silly to some players, but it is important to me. I t is a fundamental part of the sandbox experience for me, and I want it back. I could tolerate it in Vortex because that was more story driven, but in the sandbox, it kills my immersion. Please, can we have this modable? Pretty please?

    There's already a mod out there for this.
    Would you be kind enough to link it? I've heard this before, and so far, everyone keeps pointing to the "Cultural Settlements Mod" by AnonymousCheese, which does not revert the system to the way it worked in TW1. It merely overlays the occupiers settlement on top of the existing one so that it looks like an ugly mish-mash of the two. According to him, that is the best the mod system currently allows for, it does not allow for a total conversion from one culture to another. So again, if there's one that reverts the system, please link it, because that one is not what I'm talking about, although, I do appreciate his efforts.
  • xXAlduin99xXAlduin99 Posts: 134Registered Users
    until now it seems to be impossible to change it via modding. but i readed something interesting. someone said, that when norsca is added in may, it could be possible to mod, when the norsca content is changing the way settlements skins work. (i would not be surprised if one of the big messed up things in the norsca stuff is related to the settlement skins..)

    norscans can raze settlements and set different looking chaos gods totems in Game1.

    i also wonder why GW is not doing anything against it. i thought they would control every build regarding lore issues.
    Wood elves living in Tier 1 castle carcassonne is lore breaking, because wood elves raze settlements everytime (however, you can choose if you want to sow seed to create a little tree, which is the outpost)


    you can call this a "little" problem". but it isn't. I think if you play the game, you see the campaign map quite often. lol (there is also another bug btw, the visual walls on the campaign map settlement model are still randomly appearing and disappearing.)

    you can say there are more important issues. but you can say this almost always. of course everyone can be silenced
    and don't make any progress because "norsca is more important!! Wait for norsca!!"
    but.. even CA is not doing this (hello tomb kings)
    slowing down or stopping everything because of other things is damaging for the game. I'm glad CA is doing tomb kings instead of stopping it because of norsca.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 7,368Registered Users
    I agree that they should bring back the pre-existing reskins, and then update with new skins for the new races.

    It's especially annoying taking over Skaven cities... seriously... NO ONE BUT SKAVEN... OK, maybe Greenskins, would inhabit Skaven cities. They'd pave over that crap and build on the surface. Even Dwarfs would have the decency to collapse the rickety tunnels and install some proper dwarven masonry.
  • QmotionQmotion Junior Member Posts: 238Registered Users
    Yep, it is one of the things i miss the most from game 1. Settlements could change skin whenever you raze it or upgrade it instead of changing instantly. No lizardmen would want to stay for 300 turns in the same damn norsca village without changing it lol
  • xXAlduin99xXAlduin99 Posts: 134Registered Users
    Qmotion said:

    Yep, it is one of the things i miss the most from game 1. Settlements could change skin whenever you raze it or upgrade it instead of changing instantly. No lizardmen would want to stay for 300 turns in the same damn norsca village without changing it lol

    yeah.
    or you have to change it like attila/rome 2 style.
    there are even warnings for buildings that are not benefitting for you. (when greenskins raid your settlement constantly, they will place ugly buildings in it, which are damaging and are marked with a warning)

    there are a lot of possible good solutions. CA have to decide which is the best. or make it moddable, so modders can do it.
  • coury97coury97 Junior Member Posts: 607Registered Users
    Yes, it's annoying, but i don't have hopes that it would change anytime since it's a design choice, because they'll have to make new maps for each new continent for each race. I think that's the reason, don't see any other apart from it.
  • xXAlduin99xXAlduin99 Posts: 134Registered Users
    coury97 said:

    Yes, it's annoying, but i don't have hopes that it would change anytime since it's a design choice, because they'll have to make new maps for each new continent for each race. I think that's the reason, don't see any other apart from it.

    do they REALLY have to make new maps? isn't it enough to just change the weather, the ground textures & the background?

    btw. there are maps with Empire walls & towers as underground karak maps. they also existed in Game 1.

    honestly, the sieges are not very popular, so i wouldn't mind when they are all the same, except the things that have to be changed to make it logically.
  • AwesomeLionAwesomeLion Member Posts: 1,129Registered Users
    Fossoway said:

    It's not really lore breaking because it's essentially just occupied cities. When dark elves captures an asur settlement, they are not going to tear down every building and build everything back again. That's just not efficient.

    Thing is, it was fine in WH1 with a few races, but at the end we are looking at more than 16 races. Making unique settlements for each of them would be tedious as f***, and personally I'd rather they divert their time into other aspects of the game that are more important.

    Agreed.
    Total War: Warhammer <3
  • DeathclawDeathclaw Posts: 1Registered Users
    I have to accept to Alduin, because after a while you have an Empire of all kinds of cities. Like he said, a dwarf living in a Greenskin village? Seriously? Some guys say, if you take a bretonia castle as.... Empire? Then the bretonnians will live there no matter who it belongs to. But why you can recruit your soldiers than?

    I think make like in attila TW converting the village is best way to show it, its realistic and with huge disadventages for a not converted village is a great way to stop players from sieging all the world so fast, because they would leave armies back.

    I have to accept to Alduin and cant accept to Fossoway, dont know why somebody likes that

    And sorry for my bad english, im not englich native speaker
  • forsythforsyth Posts: 187Registered Users
    I keep hearing this crap excuse that it isn't realistic that the city would be rebuilt in the style of the new race.......


    DEFINE REALISTIC IN A FANTASY UNIVERSE WITH MAGIC! Where wizards can move continents and lift mountains..

    Just a thought.
  • TheGhostOfProman16TheGhostOfProman16 Senior Member Posts: 1,749Registered Users
    They should have settlement reskins for whatever say the Dwarfs take an Elf settlement the Dwarfs should hang banners off the wall in the siege map to show their in charge now

    And I think an interesting thing for the Greenskins would be to cover any settlement they take with dung, idols and rope bridges all over the siege map.

    Vampires should turn whatever settlement they own into a spooky night map
    Died during the great YOYO wars
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,337Registered Users
    edited January 2018
    forsyth said:

    I keep hearing this crap excuse that it isn't realistic that the city would be rebuilt in the style of the new race.......


    DEFINE REALISTIC IN A FANTASY UNIVERSE WITH MAGIC! Where wizards can move continents and lift mountains..

    Just a thought.

    So are cities constantly torn down and remade in their conqueror's image by all factions with magic in WH lore? Please quote the relevant passages from rulebooks, armybooks or even the novels.

    The only beings that were said to terraform with their magic are the Slan, but they're way past their prime as can be gleaned by all the ruins littering Lustria.

    Saying "it's magic and doesn't have to make sense" is why no one likes Joe Quesada.

  • xXAlduin99xXAlduin99 Posts: 134Registered Users

    forsyth said:

    I keep hearing this crap excuse that it isn't realistic that the city would be rebuilt in the style of the new race.......


    DEFINE REALISTIC IN A FANTASY UNIVERSE WITH MAGIC! Where wizards can move continents and lift mountains..

    Just a thought.

    So are cities constantly torn down and remade in their conqueror's image by all factions with magic in WH lore? Please quote the relevant passages from rulebooks, armybooks or even the novels.

    The only beings that were said to terraform with their magic are the Slan, but they're way past their prime as can be gleaned by all the ruins littering Lustria.

    Saying "it's magic and doesn't have to make sense" is why no one likes Joe Quesada.
    and YOU are ignoring the fact that wood elves living in bretonnian tier 1 castles, which is lore breaking. even the game itself tells you that you are razing it and sow seed if you want to build an outpost.

    If person A is saying that the sky is blue, and than person B says its green, and person A says no and explain it why in a logically way, do you still believe person B? do you still think, the sky is green?

    come on. I'm against any CA bashing, and i'm against demanding things over the top, but downgrading features and breaking the immersion is just too much.

    CA was asked in a stream, if settlements change their skin or not.
    the CA guy wasn't even sure. he said, that he thinks it changes after a while. I guess they planned to do it like this. there are datamines that support this theory.
    CA couldn't finish it, thats possible.

    I want CA to finish this in a logically nice looking way. this is all i want.
  • Rochaid29Rochaid29 Senior Member Posts: 1,279Registered Users
    You guys are right, it's not lore breaking and not a big issue in game neither, but no self-respecting orc would occupy a settlement and not make it orcy, it NEEDS the spikes at least! As for the other races I don't reall care, my love is for the boyz
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,337Registered Users

    forsyth said:

    I keep hearing this crap excuse that it isn't realistic that the city would be rebuilt in the style of the new race.......


    DEFINE REALISTIC IN A FANTASY UNIVERSE WITH MAGIC! Where wizards can move continents and lift mountains..

    Just a thought.

    So are cities constantly torn down and remade in their conqueror's image by all factions with magic in WH lore? Please quote the relevant passages from rulebooks, armybooks or even the novels.

    The only beings that were said to terraform with their magic are the Slan, but they're way past their prime as can be gleaned by all the ruins littering Lustria.

    Saying "it's magic and doesn't have to make sense" is why no one likes Joe Quesada.
    and YOU are ignoring the fact that wood elves living in bretonnian tier 1 castles, which is lore breaking.
    Eh, Wood Elves are actually still just producing outposts, they only fully occupy a select few Elven cities.

    Swing and a miss.


  • BeardedragonBeardedragon Member Posts: 1,398Registered Users
    i like the idea of converting cities like back in the good old days.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 13,392Registered Users, Moderators

    forsyth said:

    I keep hearing this crap excuse that it isn't realistic that the city would be rebuilt in the style of the new race.......


    DEFINE REALISTIC IN A FANTASY UNIVERSE WITH MAGIC! Where wizards can move continents and lift mountains..

    Just a thought.

    So are cities constantly torn down and remade in their conqueror's image by all factions with magic in WH lore? Please quote the relevant passages from rulebooks, armybooks or even the novels.

    The only beings that were said to terraform with their magic are the Slan, but they're way past their prime as can be gleaned by all the ruins littering Lustria.

    Saying "it's magic and doesn't have to make sense" is why no one likes Joe Quesada.
    and YOU are ignoring the fact that wood elves living in bretonnian tier 1 castles, which is lore breaking.
    Eh, Wood Elves are actually still just producing outposts, they only fully occupy a select few Elven cities.

    Swing and a miss.

    Yeah, but on the campaign map, do their "settlements" change or do they still appear as Bretonnian Castles and such? I can't remember.
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  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 7,177Registered Users
    You grow used to it. It is a minor thing. But I always liked it when it changed when a different race took a settlement. I’m not even sure it’d be overly hard to make in many instances.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • AgandorAgandor Posts: 20Registered Users
    Very much agree. You spend about 70 percent or so of your time in a campaign on the world map, in my experience at least, and probably more then that if you auto resolve most of your battles. Visuals in this case often becomes one of the few strong staying points, as what you're doing on the world map can be seen as tedious.

    Clicking on cities to upgrade buildings, moving your armies around, recruting new units, and keeping an eye on the other faction's movements. Diplomacy, skills and battles are all seperate screens and instances away from the world map, and thus you tend to spend a lot of turns on the world map, having not much other to look at besides your own settlements, the factions that are nearby you, your own armies, and those of your neighbours.

    Having to then look at for example your dwarf faction building barracks, foundrys and farms inside a dwarf hold that has a huge red ork face smack dab on it, while your army stands outside this settlement, is pretty immersion breaking in my opinion. Or as mentioned above, dark elves slutting it up in a shiny and glorious high elves city, just looks plain wrong.

    I don't think it would be "too much work" for CA, who, let us remember here, has a long history of gaming development. They have a flagship series that thousand of gamers buy new versions of whenever they bring them out, let's not pretend that they're a poor Indie developer who can only afford a cup of noodles for dinner since they have to use all their money on development.

    They can certainly afford to work on some sort of occupation skins for each race. Sure, neighsayers might say, "It's too much work, they can't afford to waste time on it." They can. Let's not pretend that they can't afford to make a team for this job. It would be so awesome to see how each race would interact with other settlements when they capture them, dark elves would darken and sluttify high elves cities, dwarfs would clean out any ork crap from their holds, humans would try to "cleanse" vampire settlements, trying to make them look as holy as possible to inspire the local populace, lizardmen would erect small temples and towers in their own image when occupying most other settlements, bretonnaions would make sure their precious medival defenses where at least in place when they capture other settlements, and so on!

    I don't think we're asking for a lot here. A few towers, some temples, recolours, maybe a farm or a foundry, anything really to make your settlements stand out from the rank and file if you decide to venture beyond what your race is usually comfortable with. Wanna capture some secure and strong dwarf holds as the empire? No problem, we'll just construct a small village on the entrance to the hold and put a guard tower there as well so others will see that humans live here along with the dwarfes. Sure, you might get your name in the Damaz Kron and royally **** off the dwarfs, but hey, you got a unique looking settlement now, something to glance over at every now and then if you're getting bored of the world map and all the normal human looking settlements.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,337Registered Users
    RikRiorik said:

    You grow used to it. It is a minor thing. But I always liked it when it changed when a different race took a settlement. I’m not even sure it’d be overly hard to make in many instances.

    A Lustrian ziggurat or Asur spire city springing up in the heart of the Empire or the badlands would be utterly immersion breaking. Bretonnians tearing down imperial cities to put in their own in (when they're usually dirt poor in both lore and the game actually) was already silly in WH1.

  • crazycrixcrazycrix Posts: 400Registered Users

    RikRiorik said:

    You grow used to it. It is a minor thing. But I always liked it when it changed when a different race took a settlement. I’m not even sure it’d be overly hard to make in many instances.

    A Lustrian ziggurat or Asur spire city springing up in the heart of the Empire or the badlands would be utterly immersion breaking. Bretonnians tearing down imperial cities to put in their own in (when they're usually dirt poor in both lore and the game actually) was already silly in WH1.
    Yeah let's have high elves living in Norskan longhouses in middle of chaos wastes with their city at lvl 5, coz that is not immersion breaking at all.

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