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Should Daemons of Chaos have Legendary Lords that are Greater Daemons, or other named characters?

mw51630mw51630 MemberRegistered Users Posts: 1,593
So the title of this page might be confusing, so I'll explain further. I've noticed many of the most important characters for Daemons of Chaos tend to be Greater Daemons, for example Skarbrand, Ku'Gath or Kairos. And they are frequently mentioned as potential/likely Legendary Lords by people on this forum.

However, one of my favorite things about Legendary Lords is their uniqueness. There isn't any Dark Elf that looks like Malekith, nor any Orc like Grimgor. But many of these Greater Daemons characters are aesthetically very similar to their unnamed peers, with some variations.

So for example, here is the current Lord of Change;



And here is Kairos, arguably the most unique/relevant Lord of Change.



Now they're obviously different (Kairos has two friggin heads) but they're pretty similar. So my question is, would it be better if instead of getting Kairos as an LL, you instead got the Changeling?



Now, I still want Kairos in the game, and I think the new Tomb Kings mechanic that allows you to recruit VIP characters is the perfect mechanic to recruit named and lore important Greater Daemons like Kairos or Skarbrand (complete with their unique looks). But I still like the idea of these more unique looking characters instead of more generic ones.

So for example, instead of for each god; Kairos, N'Kari, Ku'Gath and Skarbrand...

It's something like; Changeling, the Masque, the Glottkin, and Valkia.

Am I right, or am I missing something here?
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Comments

  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 3,565
    Depends, If they go Named Grater Daemons my list would be as follows.

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Ka'Bandha
    Slaanesh - N'Kari
    Nurgle - Ku'gath Plaguefather
    Tzeentch - Kairos Fateweaver

    If they are going for Deamon Princes

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Valkia
    Slaanesh - Azazel
    Nurgle - Epidemius
    Tzeentch - ??? The Changeling

    If they are going for Daemonic Heralds

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Skulltaker
    Slaanesh - The Masque
    Nurgle - Festerheart
    Tzeentch -The Blue Scribes
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,254
    Daemon Princes are much more likely to be part of the revamped WoC roster no?
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 17,637
    Why not both? 2 LL for each subfaction.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,254
    edited January 2018

    Why not both? 2 LL for each subfaction.

    I would have assumed this list:
    OdTengri said:

    If they go Named Grater Daemons

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Ka'Bandha
    Slaanesh - N'Kari
    Nurgle - Ku'gath Plaguefather
    Tzeentch - Kairos Fateweaver


    If they are going for Daemonic Heralds

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Skulltaker
    Slaanesh - The Masque
    Nurgle - Festerheart
    Tzeentch -The Blue Scribes

    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • DEM0N_LLAMADEM0N_LLAMA Registered Users Posts: 553
    Kholek, Durthu, Alberic de Bordeleaux don't seem super different from some units so I don't see why they should change it for Daemons of Chaos.
  • IntertriarriiaeIntertriarriiae Registered Users Posts: 385
    I would like to see a 1:1 situation to start off with.

    Like ka'bandha and skulltaker for example
    Just tossing in my 2 heresies every once in a while.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 17,637
    @Commissar_G I'd assume it's likely we'll see some combination of the 4 as part of the base game with the other 4 as part of a lord pack.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,460
    OdTengri said:

    Depends, If they go Named Grater Daemons my list would be as follows.

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Ka'Bandha
    Slaanesh - N'Kari
    Nurgle - Ku'gath Plaguefather
    Tzeentch - Kairos Fateweaver

    If they are going for Deamon Princes

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Valkia
    Slaanesh - Azazel
    Nurgle - Epidemius
    Tzeentch - ??? The Changeling

    If they are going for Daemonic Heralds

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Skulltaker
    Slaanesh - The Masque
    Nurgle - Festerheart
    Tzeentch -The Blue Scribes

    Valkia is a WoC not DoC character
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?

    GHAL MARAZ IS THE WEAPON OF THE SETTING! YET SOME BRETONNIAN SWORD IS MORE POTENT?! BUFF GHAL MARAZ IN SIGMAR'S NAME!
  • LudboneLudbone Registered Users Posts: 1,158
    This amount of LL yells at 4 Chaos factions <3
    Beastmen: where is the love?


  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Registered Users Posts: 3,373
    just give me galrauch,valkia,crom..etc for woc thanks

    Woc already got its roster split already with norsca

    Balance Is A Lie

  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Registered Users Posts: 1,576
    I just want a Keeper of Secrets with boobs for eyes.
  • VincentNZVincentNZ Registered Users Posts: 953
    I am pretty sure if we get all four as playable, CA will come up with a mixture again of monstrous/demonic/humanish LLs and the typical ranged/melee/magic/hybrid stuff.

    And I guess they will introduce "iconic" named characters before making up new ones or bringing a rather generic LL. After all, game 3 will be mostly about Chaos as a selling point besides the other three factions so they should definitely deliver in that department.
  • Horus38Horus38 Registered Users Posts: 924
    My gut leans towards being able to recruit greater demons but not having them as LL. They also may do something similar to the favor system we saw with Norsca but to a much broader/deeper extent.
  • misunderstoodvampiremisunderstoodvampire Registered Users Posts: 794

    I just want a Keeper of Secrets with boobs for eyes.

    My eyes are down here!
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,041
    I'd count slannesh out as major butthurt syndrome will make them either redundant to lore or flat out canceled.
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 3,565

    Daemon Princes are much more likely to be part of the revamped WoC roster no?

    Let's hope.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 22,779
    edited January 2018
    Why are people so hellbent to give Valkia to the DoC? She's a WoC character. Khorne has enough daemonic champions of his own so there's no need to crib from other races.

  • IzzyStradlinIzzyStradlin Senior Member Karaz BrynRegistered Users Posts: 11,114
    I think i'd absolutely prefer Greater Daemons. Daemon Princes should go to the Warriors of Chaos though - we do not need both.
    "Raise them, Necromancer. Set brother against brother. Let's give our hosts something worthy of recording in their pathetic book of complaints, shall we?"
    The Queen of Mysteries, on the Book of Grudges.

    Her voice was as rustling silk. "In the darkness I dreamt of you, cousin."
    "Hawk no longer. My wings are dust and bone. I crawl through time now, like an asp."
    "You took my wings, Neferata. You made me crawl. Now I return the favour. Crawl, cousin. Crawl."

    Team Elize von Carstein


    Warhammer Lore, by Sotek!

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH4nPsl2ctS365aEfFBwxbg

    For ease of memory, if we're not talking about cavalry, everything the High Elves have is better than everything the Dark Elves have.

    Izzy's More-Loreful Stats Mod

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1279441247&searchtext=
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,656
    Question:

    What is the difference between divided and undivided chaos?

    How about their roster?
  • mw51630mw51630 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,593

    Why are people so hellbent to give Valkia to the DoC? She's a WoC character. Khorne has enough daemonic champions of his own so there's no need to crib from other races.

    Not hellbent, but at this point I think it's unlikely WoC are getting updates, and she's the only female Khorne character I know. I just think she's cool tbh.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,151
    CA has said that they intended to update WoC when game 3 came out. Now whether that's still true as that was written back when the first game came out is anyone's guess. But even then, I wouldn't expect much more than maybe marked Chaos units. I wouldn't take my expectations too high on anything there.
    Later
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 3,565

    Why are people so hellbent to give Valkia to the DoC? She's a WoC character. Khorne has enough daemonic champions of his own so there's no need to crib from other races.

    I'm not, I broke things down by category.

    There are three possible groupings that they could pull from to make lords for the Deamons of Chaos.

    - Daemons Princes
    - Daemons Heralds
    - Greater Daemons

    Valkia is simply the most iconic daemon prince of Khorne.

    Personally I hope they go with named charters that are Daemonic Heralds.

    My Ideal List would be

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Skulltaker
    Slaanesh - The Masque
    Nurgle - Epidemius
    Tzeentch -The Blue Scribes

    I'm utterly unamazed when someone gets their pants in a twist because someone else gives a rough approximation of what could happen.

    Its as if I said "It might snow this week" and your responding with "Why on earth would you want it to Snow"

    A lot of this all depends on what CA wants to do with Daemons of Chaos, something that I don't presume to know, but for the sake of argument CA sits you down and says.

    "Ok we have decided to make Daemon Princes our generic lord choice for DoC, what Named Characters that are Daemon Princes would you like to see? We need one for each Dark God."

    What ones would you choose and why @Ephraim_Dalton and @TheGuardianOfMetal
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • IntertriarriiaeIntertriarriiae Registered Users Posts: 385
    jamreal18 said:

    Question:

    What is the difference between divided and undivided chaos?

    How about their roster?

    Chaos undivided means the warriors that do not serve a single god.

    Chaos divided is split between the 4 (5) chaos gods:
    -khorne followers/worshippers
    -tzeentch ""
    -nurgle ""
    -slaanesh ""
    (-malal "")

    Valkia the bloody for example is a khorne worshipper. People want these armies divided because followers of the different chaos gods often fight each other. In that way it would be weird to add valkia to a nurgle army.
    Just tossing in my 2 heresies every once in a while.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 2,545
    OdTengri said:

    Why are people so hellbent to give Valkia to the DoC? She's a WoC character. Khorne has enough daemonic champions of his own so there's no need to crib from other races.

    I'm not, I broke things down by category.

    There are three possible groupings that they could pull from to make lords for the Deamons of Chaos.

    - Daemons Princes
    - Daemons Heralds
    - Greater Daemons

    Valkia is simply the most iconic daemon prince of Khorne.

    Personally I hope they go with named charters that are Daemonic Heralds.

    My Ideal List would be

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Skulltaker
    Slaanesh - The Masque
    Nurgle - Epidemius
    Tzeentch -The Blue Scribes

    I'm utterly unamazed when someone gets their pants in a twist because someone else gives a rough approximation of what could happen.

    Its as if I said "It might snow this week" and your responding with "Why on earth would you want it to Snow"

    A lot of this all depends on what CA wants to do with Daemons of Chaos, something that I don't presume to know, but for the sake of argument CA sits you down and says.

    "Ok we have decided to make Daemon Princes our generic lord choice for DoC, what Named Characters that are Daemon Princes would you like to see? We need one for each Dark God."

    What ones would you choose and why @Ephraim_Dalton and @TheGuardianOfMetal
    I am pretty sure N'Kari is demon prince what exactly is the difference b/e Demon Princes and Greater Demons?
  • IzzyStradlinIzzyStradlin Senior Member Karaz BrynRegistered Users Posts: 11,114

    CA has said that they intended to update WoC when game 3 came out. Now whether that's still true as that was written back when the first game came out is anyone's guess. But even then, I wouldn't expect much more than maybe marked Chaos units. I wouldn't take my expectations too high on anything there.

    Pardon my asking, but they did?
    "Raise them, Necromancer. Set brother against brother. Let's give our hosts something worthy of recording in their pathetic book of complaints, shall we?"
    The Queen of Mysteries, on the Book of Grudges.

    Her voice was as rustling silk. "In the darkness I dreamt of you, cousin."
    "Hawk no longer. My wings are dust and bone. I crawl through time now, like an asp."
    "You took my wings, Neferata. You made me crawl. Now I return the favour. Crawl, cousin. Crawl."

    Team Elize von Carstein


    Warhammer Lore, by Sotek!

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH4nPsl2ctS365aEfFBwxbg

    For ease of memory, if we're not talking about cavalry, everything the High Elves have is better than everything the Dark Elves have.

    Izzy's More-Loreful Stats Mod

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1279441247&searchtext=
  • SagrandaSagranda Registered Users Posts: 1,659

    CA has said that they intended to update WoC when game 3 came out. Now whether that's still true as that was written back when the first game came out is anyone's guess. But even then, I wouldn't expect much more than maybe marked Chaos units. I wouldn't take my expectations too high on anything there.

    Pardon my asking, but they did?
    CA's post about the Chaos Pre-Order "outrage" can be interpreted as such, but it is imho rather vague
    Disclaimer: What I say is my opinion and not necessarily stated as fact.
  • IntertriarriiaeIntertriarriiae Registered Users Posts: 385
    A greater demon is created by the chaos gods (aka daemon when created) and a daemon prince is an, to daemonhood, elevated chaos worshipper (aka human turned into daemon). A daemon prince can however still be aligned to a single god.
    Just tossing in my 2 heresies every once in a while.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,151
    sagranda2 said:

    CA has said that they intended to update WoC when game 3 came out. Now whether that's still true as that was written back when the first game came out is anyone's guess. But even then, I wouldn't expect much more than maybe marked Chaos units. I wouldn't take my expectations too high on anything there.

    Pardon my asking, but they did?
    CA's post about the Chaos Pre-Order "outrage" can be interpreted as such, but it is imho rather vague
    Yeah they say that Chaos was never intended to be playable in game 1 and that game 3 will unleash the full horrors of Chaos. Many believe that this means that they originally intended to not have Chaos playable in game 1 and it would have been expanded on and release in game 3. The hope is that now that they did Chaos as a pre-order for game 1 that it'll still be fleshed out when they flesh out the rest of Chaos in game 3 just as they intended.

    Basically, they said that they intended to flesh out WoC more. Whether or not they still will is anybody's guess though. I just quote it to give people hope in these dark times.
    Later
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 1,694
    Why do we keep talking Ka'Bandha, when it should (and almost certainly would) be Skarbrand? :p

    Anyway, 4 Legendary Lords, and yes they should be the Greater Daemons.

    Belakor is a different thing, but yeah I would include him as a LL for sure.

    Heralds are cool and all, but I'll take the Greater Daemons every single day. As far as the context of this game goes, I would put Heralds at the Hero level, not the Lord level.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 3,565

    OdTengri said:

    Why are people so hellbent to give Valkia to the DoC? She's a WoC character. Khorne has enough daemonic champions of his own so there's no need to crib from other races.

    I'm not, I broke things down by category.

    There are three possible groupings that they could pull from to make lords for the Deamons of Chaos.

    - Daemons Princes
    - Daemons Heralds
    - Greater Daemons

    Valkia is simply the most iconic daemon prince of Khorne.

    Personally I hope they go with named charters that are Daemonic Heralds.

    My Ideal List would be

    Undevided - Be'lakor

    Khorne - Skulltaker
    Slaanesh - The Masque
    Nurgle - Epidemius
    Tzeentch -The Blue Scribes

    I'm utterly unamazed when someone gets their pants in a twist because someone else gives a rough approximation of what could happen.

    Its as if I said "It might snow this week" and your responding with "Why on earth would you want it to Snow"

    A lot of this all depends on what CA wants to do with Daemons of Chaos, something that I don't presume to know, but for the sake of argument CA sits you down and says.

    "Ok we have decided to make Daemon Princes our generic lord choice for DoC, what Named Characters that are Daemon Princes would you like to see? We need one for each Dark God."

    What ones would you choose and why @Ephraim_Dalton and @TheGuardianOfMetal
    I am pretty sure N'Kari is demon prince what exactly is the difference b/e Demon Princes and Greater Demons?
    Well then you'd be wrong, very very wrong. N'Kari is a Keeper of Secrets making him/her/it a Greater Daemon, a Named Character that is a Greater Daemon.

    The difference between a Daemon Prince and a Greater daemon is that on TT they are entirely different models with entirely different statistics and entirely different rules. If you didn't know that maybe you shouldn't be sounding off, maybe you aren't informed upon the subject for which you speak.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

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