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She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
Daemons of Chaos should have a Greater Daemon as main LL with a Lesser Daemon as 2nd LL.
Daemons of Slaanesh - N'kari as main LL, The Masque of Slaanesh as 2nd LL Daemons of Nurgle - Ku'gath Plaguefather main LL, Epidemius as 2nd LL Daemons of Tzeentch - Kairos Fateweaver main LL, the Changeling as 2nd LL Daemons of Khorne - Skarrbrand the Exiled as main LL, Uz'hul Skulltaker as 2nd LL.
DLC - Daemons of Chaos Undivided - LL Be'lakor the Dark Master.
FLC - Karanak the Hound of Khorne, Azazel the Prince of Damnation, The Blue Scribes of Tzeentch, The Glottkin of Nurgle.
WoC Divided LLs
Warriors of Slaanesh - Sigvald the Magnificent Warriors of Nurgle - Festus the Leechlord Warriors of Tzeentch - Vilitch the Curseling Warriors of Khorne - Valkia the Bloody
FLC WoC Divided LLs - Galrauch the First Chaos Dragon for Tzeentch, Scylla Anfyngrimm for Khorne.
DLC Race - Kurgan Tribes - LL's Vardek Crom, the Conqueror and Tamurkhan, the Maggot Lord
Daemons of Chaos should have a Greater Daemon as main LL with a Lesser Daemon as 2nd LL.
Daemons of Slaanesh - N'kari as main LL, The Masque of Slaanesh as 2nd LL Daemons of Nurgle - Ku'gath Plaguefather main LL, Epidemius as 2nd LL Daemons of Tzeentch - Kairos Fateweaver main LL, the Changeling as 2nd LL Daemons of Khorne - Skarrbrand the Exiled as main LL, Uz'hul Skulltaker as 2nd LL.
DLC - Daemons of Chaos Undivided - LL Be'lakor the Dark Master.
FLC - Karanak the Hound of Khorne, Azazel the Prince of Damnation, The Blue Scribes of Tzeentch, The Glottkin of Nurgle.
WoC Divided LLs
Warriors of Slaanesh - Sigvald the Magnificent Warriors of Nurgle - Festus the Leechlord Warriors of Tzeentch - Vilitch the Curseling Warriors of Khorne - Valkia the Bloody
FLC WoC Divided LLs - Galrauch the First Chaos Dragon for Tzeentch, Scylla Anfyngrimm for Khorne.
DLC Race - Kurgan Tribes - LL's Vardek Crom, the Conqueror and Tamurkhan, the Maggot Lord
Add Norsca from Part 2, the Beastmen,
And Chaos finally is fully represented.
I think this is great, but a tad optimistic.
If game 3 gives 4 divided deamons faction, which I hope (at game start or through lord packs), then I expect 1 LL for each first, and 1 additional FLC LL and/or Lord Packs then.
For example, starting LLs for Deamons of Chaos: aemons of Slaanesh - N'kari Daemons of Nurgle - Ku'gath Plaguefather Daemons of Tzeentch - Kairos Fateweaver Daemons of Khorne - Skarrbrand the Exiled
Then Lord Packs and FLC LLs would add the others:
Daemons of Slaanesh - The Masque of Slaanesh as 2nd LL Daemons of Nurgle - Epidemius Daemons of Tzeentch - The Changeling Daemons of Khorne - Uz'hul Skulltaker
Also, I don't really understand why Be'lakor the Dark Master is considered a DOC LL. Wasn't he in the Warriors of Chaos Books? In my opinion, he should be added as a replacement undivided LL for DOC, when Sigvald righly moves as the LL for Warriors of Slaanesh.
I fully support this list as well:
Warriors of Slaanesh - Sigvald the Magnificent Warriors of Nurgle - Festus the Leechlord Warriors of Tzeentch - Vilitch the Curseling Warriors of Khorne - Valkia the Bloody
And finally, a Kurgan tribes DLC would be awesome. Game 3 lacks DLC races as it is, and they would be a fine addition. If the Beastmen and DOC rosters are completed, then I would consider that I've "been exposed to the full horror of Chaos", as CA put it.
If the game 3 comes with the 4 Chaos Factions + Kislev pre-order DLC... there's no problem for DLC races.
We have still Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dawi...and maybe another one like Norsca.
And starting 2 LL like everyone. Another one/two as FLC and probably another with a Lord Pack.
The problem remains however selling 1 race padded out into 4 as an "entire game" is impossible to justify.
Define "race"...Because to me DoT and DoN if made properly can become more different and unique when compared to each other than lests say Empire and Brettonia currently are or DEs/HEs and WEs.
Why are people so hellbent to give Valkia to the DoC? She's a WoC character. Khorne has enough Daemonic Champions of his own so there's no need to crib from other races.
Well Daemon Princes are still an type of Daemons, not Daemons by 'birth' but still. Also the Daemons of Chaos are going to be an Core Faction/Factions and so it's would be much easier to add more Characters for their roster. Also Norsca already taken Two Legendary Lords from the Warriors of Chaos roster, so the Daemons of Chaos can do it too.
What exactly is the difference b/e Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons?
Daemon Princes are Former Mortals, while Greater Daemons was always Daemons. It was also used an justification to put the Daemon Princes in the Warriors of Chaos roster instead of the Daemons of Chaos roster, even though they are quite perfectly fitting for both. Also if the Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos would fuse back, it would not matter.
It's annoying that I need to say this, because I know you know this, but for the sake of others viewing.
= 1 race. Games Workshop has called the specific army books races since as long as I ever played it.
It would be found lacking only for those that consider races to be the only content worth having.Or those that consider that each armybook can only support 1 "race"...
True in GW mind DoC are one army.And so are WoC yet here we are with WoC being split into "WoC" and Norsca.What makes DoC that different that stops CA from creating/borrowing models like they did with Norsca?!
Im really interested on how theyre going to do this. What will be the first 4 starting factions? Will they all be chaos? Or will chaos be DLC and they have chaos dwarves and the ogre kingdom. VERY interested, if anyone can explain what they think will happen.
I'm really interested on how they're going to do this. What will be the first 4 starting factions? Will they all be chaos? Or will Chaos be DLC and they have Chaos Dwarves and the Ogre Kingdoms. VERY interested, if anyone can explain what they think will happen.
There is many ways to do it, and CA needs to choose one. Fusing back the Warriors of Chaos and the Daemons of Chaos to some extend is also an option, in a similar way as the Wood Elves and the Forest Spirits work in Total War. The fact that CA added the Lord of Change for Warriors of Chaos and Norsca also support that.
Also, I don't really understand why Be'lakor the Dark Master is considered a DOC LL. Wasn't he in the Warriors of Chaos Books?
Because hes the only character that is both.
A ) A Daemon
- AND -
B ) Undivided
Be'lakor was not available to either DoC or WoC in 8th edition. "If" CA wants a Daemon that is Undivided as a LL for DoC hes the only option, of course they might not do that.
What exactly is the difference b/e Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons?
Daemon Princes are Former Mortals, while Greater Daemons was always Daemons. It was also used an justification to put the Daemon Princes in the Warriors of Chaos roster instead of the Daemons of Chaos roster, even though they are quite perfectly fitting for both. Also if the Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos would fuse back, it would not matter.
Just an FYI generic Daemon Princes are Lord options for DoC in 8th edition as well as WoC. Valkia was the only character Daemon Prince in 8th ed and she was a WoC option only.
What exactly is the difference b/e Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons?
Daemon Princes are Former Mortals, while Greater Daemons was always Daemons. It was also used an justification to put the Daemon Princes in the Warriors of Chaos roster instead of the Daemons of Chaos roster, even though they are quite perfectly fitting for both. Also if the Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos would fuse back, it would not matter.
What exactly is the difference b/e Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons?
Daemon Princes are Former Mortals, while Greater Daemons was always Daemons. It was also used an justification to put the Daemon Princes in the Warriors of Chaos roster instead of the Daemons of Chaos roster, even though they are quite perfectly fitting for both. Also if the Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos would fuse back, it would not matter.
That's mostly true but somehow N'Kari used to be a High Elf and became a Greater Daemon.
Huh?
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
What exactly is the difference b/e Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons?
Daemon Princes are Former Mortals, while Greater Daemons was always Daemons. It was also used an justification to put the Daemon Princes in the Warriors of Chaos roster instead of the Daemons of Chaos roster, even though they are quite perfectly fitting for both. Also if the Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos would fuse back, it would not matter.
That's mostly true but somehow N'Kari used to be a High Elf and became a Greater Daemon.
Huh?
Here's a quote from 1d4chan, for a funny description of N'Kari...
In Warhammer Fantasy, N'kari was a High Elf in the Cult of Pleasure who found a patron in Slaanesh (as Slaanesh is less inclined to eat Dandelion-eater souls as he is to make them into Daemonettes in Fantasy). N'kari usurped the position of Dechala as Slaanesh's favorite, and has corrupted many mortals since then, and is the one who commonly sends messages to Slaanesh's mortal champions. Thanks to the time of the Warp, however, she managed to predate herself, and was a powerful Keeper of Secrets from primordial times that fought Aenarion the Defender a couple of times then got trapped in the fabric of a magical vortex created by Caledor the Dragontamer and friends to block Chaos from the World. She eventually got out, and to her props even Malekith was on edge about the whole thing. She proceeded to wreak unspeakable carnage in Ulthuan, hunted Anarion's descendants, and tried to destroy the Shrine of Asuryan, but that last one didn't work out too well. As a result, N'Kari has played Saturday morning cartoon villain to the T&T twins (Tyrion and Teclis) ever since, appearing and taunting them, getting an whooping (and a corpse- from Tyrion most likely), then popping back into the Warp while shrieking about how he will be back and they won't be so lucky next time until the next time actually comes which ends up as just a rinse/repeat of the last time.
What exactly is the difference b/e Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons?
Daemon Princes are Former Mortals, while Greater Daemons was always Daemons. It was also used an justification to put the Daemon Princes in the Warriors of Chaos roster instead of the Daemons of Chaos roster, even though they are quite perfectly fitting for both. Also if the Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos would fuse back, it would not matter.
Why are people so hellbent to give Valkia to the DoC? She's a WoC character. Khorne has enough daemonic champions of his own so there's no need to crib from other races.
I'm not, I broke things down by category.
There are three possible groupings that they could pull from to make lords for the Deamons of Chaos.
Valkia is simply the most iconic daemon prince of Khorne.
Personally I hope they go with named charters that are Daemonic Heralds.
My Ideal List would be
Undevided - Be'lakor
Khorne - Skulltaker Slaanesh - The Masque Nurgle - Epidemius Tzeentch -The Blue Scribes
I'm utterly unamazed when someone gets their pants in a twist because someone else gives a rough approximation of what could happen.
Its as if I said "It might snow this week" and your responding with "Why on earth would you want it to Snow"
A lot of this all depends on what CA wants to do with Daemons of Chaos, something that I don't presume to know, but for the sake of argument CA sits you down and says.
"Ok we have decided to make Daemon Princes our generic lord choice for DoC, what Named Characters that are Daemon Princes would you like to see? We need one for each Dark God."
I am pretty sure N'Kari is demon prince what exactly is the difference b/e Demon Princes and Greater Demons?
Demon Princes are mortals ascending to Daemonhood their strong don't get me wrong but N'kari is the strongest Greater Daemon of Slaanesh a demon prince ain't got nothing on her/him other
What exactly is the difference b/e Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons?
Daemon Princes are Former Mortals, while Greater Daemons was always Daemons. It was also used an justification to put the Daemon Princes in the Warriors of Chaos roster instead of the Daemons of Chaos roster, even though they are quite perfectly fitting for both. Also if the Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos would fuse back, it would not matter.
That's mostly true but somehow N'Kari used to be a High Elf and became a Greater Daemon.
Huh?
He referring to old lore where Slaanesh was made by the Elves like 40k?
Quoting a different (humorous) source;
In Warhammer Fantasy, N'kari was a High Elf in the Cult of Pleasure who found a patron in Slaanesh (as Slaanesh is less inclined to eat Dandelion-eater souls as he is to make them into Daemonettes in Fantasy). N'kari usurped the position of Dechala as Slaanesh's favorite, and has corrupted many mortals since then, and is the one who commonly sends messages to Slaanesh's mortal champions. Thanks to the time of the Warp, however, she managed to predate herself, and was a powerful Keeper of Secrets from primordial times that fought Aenarion the Defender a couple of times then got trapped in the fabric of a magical vortex created by Caledor the Dragontamer and friends to block Chaos from the World. She eventually got out, and to her props even Malekith was on edge about the whole thing. She proceeded to wreak unspeakable carnage in Ulthuan, hunted Anarion's descendants, and tried to destroy the Shrine of Asuryan, but that last one didn't work out too well.
Really it depends a lot how DoC are actually implemented.
If they are 1 Faction, then I would expect just the 4 Named Greater Daemons.
If they are 4 factions, then I would expect 1 named Greater Daemon and 1 named lesser daemon for each God
If they are 4 factions, and are a mix between God Aligned DoC and God Aligned WoC, then I expect them to have 1 Greater Daemon and 1 Mortal Follower for each God.
It's Important to Note that the Named Lesser Daemons are All Heroes in the DoC Army book, Not Lords. They technically don't lead the armies, though this hasn't stopped CA from making Heroes into Lords (Wulfrik, Throgg, Isabella) I feel like the actual lords probably have a higher Priority then the Heroes do of making it in as LL in TW:W.
"Chaos strong. Gors strong. Humans, Elves, Dwarf — weak. We win. We fight, we kill, one day we win. One day soon. You — if you lucky, we eat you, make you into part of us, make you better than you, stronger than any of you, stronger than all of you. Once this arm weak, like you. I eat many of your kind, now I strong."
—Karzog, Beastigor Charioteer.
Not to be pessimistic but I think the demons of chaos will be numerous factions but one race. I bet it'll have four LL's after dlc and flc one for each god maybe a 5th undivided LL.
Team Vampire Counts
"Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
Not to be pessimistic but I think the demons of chaos will be numerous factions but one race. I bet it'll have four LL's after dlc and flc one for each god maybe a 5th undivided LL.
How is that pessimistic? It just means we'd be getting 3 or more actual races at launch instead of 1 split race.
Comments
She had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
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0 · Disagree AgreeN'Kari (who is already mentioned in game, this is a conversion)
And Ku'Gath, who doesn't have a model but is described as being carried on a palanquin of Nurglings, so awesome.
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0 · Disagree AgreeNow before people yell that it's "AoS" I need not remind them that daemons are a crossover faction.
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0 · Disagree AgreeDaemons of Slaanesh - N'kari as main LL, The Masque of Slaanesh as 2nd LL
Daemons of Nurgle - Ku'gath Plaguefather main LL, Epidemius as 2nd LL
Daemons of Tzeentch - Kairos Fateweaver main LL, the Changeling as 2nd LL
Daemons of Khorne - Skarrbrand the Exiled as main LL, Uz'hul Skulltaker as 2nd LL.
DLC - Daemons of Chaos Undivided - LL Be'lakor the Dark Master.
FLC - Karanak the Hound of Khorne, Azazel the Prince of Damnation, The Blue Scribes of Tzeentch, The Glottkin of Nurgle.
WoC Divided LLs
Warriors of Slaanesh - Sigvald the Magnificent
Warriors of Nurgle - Festus the Leechlord
Warriors of Tzeentch - Vilitch the Curseling
Warriors of Khorne - Valkia the Bloody
FLC WoC Divided LLs - Galrauch the First Chaos Dragon for Tzeentch, Scylla Anfyngrimm for Khorne.
DLC Race - Kurgan Tribes - LL's Vardek Crom, the Conqueror and Tamurkhan, the Maggot Lord
Add Norsca from Part 2, the Beastmen,
And Chaos finally is fully represented.
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9 · Disagree AgreeThe alternative I guess would be the Forge World Keeper...which I would not lament.
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0 · Disagree AgreeIf game 3 gives 4 divided deamons faction, which I hope (at game start or through lord packs), then I expect 1 LL for each first, and 1 additional FLC LL and/or Lord Packs then.
For example, starting LLs for Deamons of Chaos:
aemons of Slaanesh - N'kari
Daemons of Nurgle - Ku'gath Plaguefather
Daemons of Tzeentch - Kairos Fateweaver
Daemons of Khorne - Skarrbrand the Exiled
Then Lord Packs and FLC LLs would add the others:
Daemons of Slaanesh - The Masque of Slaanesh as 2nd LL
Daemons of Nurgle - Epidemius
Daemons of Tzeentch - The Changeling
Daemons of Khorne - Uz'hul Skulltaker
Also, I don't really understand why Be'lakor the Dark Master is considered a DOC LL. Wasn't he in the Warriors of Chaos Books?
In my opinion, he should be added as a replacement undivided LL for DOC, when Sigvald righly moves as the LL for Warriors of Slaanesh.
I fully support this list as well:
Warriors of Slaanesh - Sigvald the Magnificent
Warriors of Nurgle - Festus the Leechlord
Warriors of Tzeentch - Vilitch the Curseling
Warriors of Khorne - Valkia the Bloody
And finally, a Kurgan tribes DLC would be awesome. Game 3 lacks DLC races as it is, and they would be a fine addition.
If the Beastmen and DOC rosters are completed, then I would consider that I've "been exposed to the full horror of Chaos", as CA put it.
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1 · Disagree AgreeWe have still Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dawi...and maybe another one like Norsca.
And starting 2 LL like everyone. Another one/two as FLC and probably another with a Lord Pack.
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1 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
3 · Disagree Agree- Report
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0 · Disagree Agree= 1 race. Games Workshop has called the specific army books races since as long as I ever played it.
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0 · Disagree Agreehttp://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Daemon_Prince
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2 · Disagree AgreeTrue in GW mind DoC are one army.And so are WoC yet here we are with WoC being split into "WoC" and Norsca.What makes DoC that different that stops CA from creating/borrowing models like they did with Norsca?!
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1 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeA ) A Daemon
- AND -
B ) Undivided
Be'lakor was not available to either DoC or WoC in 8th edition. "If" CA wants a Daemon that is Undivided as a LL for DoC hes the only option, of course they might not do that. Just an FYI generic Daemon Princes are Lord options for DoC in 8th edition as well as WoC. Valkia was the only character Daemon Prince in 8th ed and she was a WoC option only.
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1 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeShe had fought beside Aenarion in the days of her youth, killing daemons, slaughtering the enemies of her people with wild abandon. She had cast spells and brewed poisons and worked out battle strategies for his armies. She had used her gift of visions to grant the elves victories innumerable.
The so-called high elves had forgotten that now, preferring to cast her as the villain in the simple-minded morality plays they so enjoyed since her son had sundered the realm. They had no idea what it had cost to win those battles back when all thought the world was ending, or the price she had paid for victory.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeIn Warhammer Fantasy, N'kari was a High Elf in the Cult of Pleasure who found a patron in Slaanesh (as Slaanesh is less inclined to eat Dandelion-eater souls as he is to make them into Daemonettes in Fantasy). N'kari usurped the position of Dechala as Slaanesh's favorite, and has corrupted many mortals since then, and is the one who commonly sends messages to Slaanesh's mortal champions.
Thanks to the time
As a result, N'Kari has played Saturday morning cartoon villain to the T&T twins (Tyrion and Teclis) ever since, appearing and taunting them, getting an
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeIn Warhammer Fantasy, N'kari was a High Elf in the Cult of Pleasure who found a patron in Slaanesh (as Slaanesh is less inclined to eat Dandelion-eater souls as he is to make them into Daemonettes in Fantasy). N'kari usurped the position of Dechala as Slaanesh's favorite, and has corrupted many mortals since then, and is the one who commonly sends messages to Slaanesh's mortal champions.
Thanks to the time
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeIf they are 1 Faction, then I would expect just the 4 Named Greater Daemons.
If they are 4 factions, then I would expect 1 named Greater Daemon and 1 named lesser daemon for each God
If they are 4 factions, and are a mix between God Aligned DoC and God Aligned WoC, then I expect them to have 1 Greater Daemon and 1 Mortal Follower for each God.
It's Important to Note that the Named Lesser Daemons are All Heroes in the DoC Army book, Not Lords. They technically don't lead the armies, though this hasn't stopped CA from making Heroes into Lords (Wulfrik, Throgg, Isabella) I feel like the actual lords probably have a higher Priority then the Heroes do of making it in as LL in TW:W.
—Karzog, Beastigor Charioteer.
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0 · Disagree AgreeTeam Vampire Counts
"Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."- Soren Johnson
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0 · Disagree AgreeThis amount of LLs just screams 4 Skaven races! How is that pessimistic? It just means we'd be getting 3 or more actual races at launch instead of 1 split race.
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0 · Disagree Agree