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Old World Rite's will they make it in? if they make it in what do you think they will be?

BoldElfBoldElf Registered Users Posts: 191
I hope they do make it in game as its another nice uniqueness to each faction.

I can think of certain aspects for example Warriors of Chaos and beastmen could have a rite based on each Chaos God but have variations for each race. I would imagine Rite of Tzeench increases winds of magic etc, Nurgle unit replenishment and possibly resilience against attrition, Khorne could give frenzy and battle buffs, and Slanesh increased recruitment vet and possibly growth boost.

I could see factions having rites for Rare units e.g. Empire has one to recruit steam tanks much like how Slann are recruited or once you buy one its put in a recruitment pool to assign it to an army.

What Ideas do you guys have?
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Comments

  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIRegistered Users Posts: 7,165
    CA has said before that there are currently no plans to add rites to Old World factions and that aside from that, a few devs don't like the concept of Rites for Old World races as it diminishes the uniqueness of the rites in the first place.
  • MrMecHMrMecH Registered Users Posts: 2,390
    Sit and waiting for Vanilla_Gorilla fury. B)
    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

  • BoldElfBoldElf Registered Users Posts: 191
    MrJade said:

    CA has said before that there are currently no plans to add rites to Old World factions and that aside from that, a few devs don't like the concept of Rites for Old World races as it diminishes the uniqueness of the rites in the first place.

    I thought they said they don't have any plans atm but they plan on improving the game all the time and updating the old world races which could mean they might do it. I wont be devastated if they don't tbh just thought it would be cool if they did.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIRegistered Users Posts: 7,165
    BoldElf said:

    I thought they said they don't have any plans atm but they plan on improving the game all the time and updating the old world races which could mean they might do it. I wont be devastated if they don't tbh just thought it would be cool if they did.

    They did and on Reddit either Mitch or Rich said that they don't personally like the rites for Old World races.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 22,555
    MrMecH said:

    Sit and waiting for Vanilla_Gorilla fury. B)

    Meaning?
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

  • DEM0N_LLAMADEM0N_LLAMA Registered Users Posts: 620
    It's not that Old World faction need to have rites but they should get something else at least.
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,513
    BoldElf said:

    I hope they do make it in game as its another nice uniqueness to each faction.

    I don't see how giving everyone else the same thing somehow creates more distinction, seeing as that's what you do if you want them to be LESS unique.
    Rites themselves aren't even very good in making Vortex factions unique from eachother, other mechanics do a far better job, unsurprisingly.

    Having watched a recent Tomb Kings gameplay vid, their own Rites selection also works on very similar mechanics. Sure not all factions have a rite that unlocks recruitment for characters, but I can actually count three out of the four factions that have this. Tomb Kings seem to have TWO rites related to such recruitment. Either CA is very lazy or there are technical limitations to the Rites mechanics.

    The biggest reason why they wouldn't give Old War factions rites would also be that it takes time to develop and produce, and then test to fine tune. That's also assuming they won't retroactively carry them over to Game1 and not merely to Mortal Empires, which itself requires porting it over the same way they have to with Norsca.
    Biggest example would be not a simple unlock X to spend Y to gain Z effect. They can even just do a Lizardmen-esque mission lock feature where Rites are only unlocked via doing certain missions, and once said Rite is used, the Rite is locked until you achieve the same type of mission again, rather than a simple cooldown period.

    That to say, I would want Old World factions to have Rites-like mechanics, but preferably designed in a much more distinguishable way than a very samey mechanic that more likely makes Game1 races less unique than others.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,429
    Lore-Wise nothing stops the Old World's Factions from having Rites, just like the New World's Factions, what stops them from getting Rites is mostly Charlemagnes shortage and power creep.

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Old_World_Pantheon
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 11,229
    I thought it was a shoe in for TWW2 Mortal Empires. The fact that Rites didn’t make it in to ME for Old World races and that at the start neither did even the Foundation updates soured the whole initial ME experience for me to such a degree that I held of playing it.

    But it taught me a valuable lesson. Don’t assume anything and you won’t get disappointed. As is I have little hope for the Old World races to even recieve any update to their mechanics at all. At least I’ll be pleasantly surprised if it ever were to happen.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • SultschiemSultschiem Registered Users Posts: 2,736
    From what I see, they are currently in the same state as Regiment of Renown for DLC-factions.

    People asked for it a lot... and they found a way to bring them. Now all DLC-factions will have them right from the start (Norsca, Tomb Kings).

    Might be a similar thing here....as long as people keep asking for it....
  • VincentNZVincentNZ Registered Users Posts: 953
    I doubt it very strongly. Adding features for Game I factions costs a lot of work and money, but in the same time does not generate any money itself.
    Adding some obscure rites to six factions along with the mechanic just for ME will not boost sales. Adding a random LL for a random WHII faction will though for a fraction of the cost.
  • MrMecHMrMecH Registered Users Posts: 2,390
    I need something to fill this space. Rite or whatever.





    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

  • Horus38Horus38 Registered Users Posts: 935
    MrJade said:

    CA has said before that there are currently no plans to add rites to Old World factions and that aside from that, a few devs don't like the concept of Rites for Old World races as it diminishes the uniqueness of the rites in the first place.

    ^ This. Sums up the current known developer stance.
  • SultschiemSultschiem Registered Users Posts: 2,736
    VincentNZ said:

    I doubt it very strongly. Adding features for Game I factions costs a lot of work and money, but in the same time does not generate any money itself.
    Adding some obscure rites to six factions along with the mechanic just for ME will not boost sales. Adding a random LL for a random WHII faction will though for a fraction of the cost.

    They are also making more starting locations for old world factions and they overhauled skilltrees and added some research stuff.

    So.... its all about increasing replayability, to hold people longer, so they buy the sequel/more dlc.
  • BoldElfBoldElf Registered Users Posts: 191
    daelin4 said:

    BoldElf said:

    I hope they do make it in game as its another nice uniqueness to each faction.

    I don't see how giving everyone else the same thing somehow creates more distinction, seeing as that's what you do if you want them to be LESS unique.
    Rites themselves aren't even very good in making Vortex factions unique from eachother, other mechanics do a far better job, unsurprisingly.

    Having watched a recent Tomb Kings gameplay vid, their own Rites selection also works on very similar mechanics. Sure not all factions have a rite that unlocks recruitment for characters, but I can actually count three out of the four factions that have this. Tomb Kings seem to have TWO rites related to such recruitment. Either CA is very lazy or there are technical limitations to the Rites mechanics.

    The biggest reason why they wouldn't give Old War factions rites would also be that it takes time to develop and produce, and then test to fine tune. That's also assuming they won't retroactively carry them over to Game1 and not merely to Mortal Empires, which itself requires porting it over the same way they have to with Norsca.
    Biggest example would be not a simple unlock X to spend Y to gain Z effect. They can even just do a Lizardmen-esque mission lock feature where Rites are only unlocked via doing certain missions, and once said Rite is used, the Rite is locked until you achieve the same type of mission again, rather than a simple cooldown period.

    That to say, I would want Old World factions to have Rites-like mechanics, but preferably designed in a much more distinguishable way than a very samey mechanic that more likely makes Game1 races less unique than others.
    I don't know how you can say this would make them less unique. The fact they have access to rites doesn't diminish their uniqueness as its the rites they have that are unique and they all add really interesting buffs and alterations to the game. e.g. the fact that the Skaven can recruit 2 unique heroes that have abilities that are not present to anyone else is very unique (just because other factions e.g. the Tomb kings will be able to use a rite to summon a hero doesn't deminish what the factions specific heroes do).

    While I agree that the rites are not the key factors that make the new 4 factions unique its a nice addition that could suit all the old world factions if they all had their own unique rites resulting in a bit more depth to each existing faction.
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,803
    They should get them, if the New World races are getting RoR, as apparently they are.

    Seemed a fair trade-off, the New World having Rites granting them these massive boons and the Old World able to pull half a stack of elite units out of it's backside no matter where on the map within one turn.

    As it stands, considering how well the New World races stack up against the Old World already, they will wipe the floor with the Old World races once those RoR come in.
    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • VincentNZVincentNZ Registered Users Posts: 953

    VincentNZ said:

    I doubt it very strongly. Adding features for Game I factions costs a lot of work and money, but in the same time does not generate any money itself.
    Adding some obscure rites to six factions along with the mechanic just for ME will not boost sales. Adding a random LL for a random WHII faction will though for a fraction of the cost.

    They are also making more starting locations for old world factions and they overhauled skilltrees and added some research stuff.

    So.... its all about increasing replayability, to hold people longer, so they buy the sequel/more dlc.
    Yeah these things are minor and are only made to adress the glaring balance issues between game I and II factions. Adding rites would require a bit more innovative thinking and general work.
  • ShaddShadd Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 458
    It would be a good excuse to give dwarfs item crafting like the mortuary cult.

    Empire: Summon the Elector Counts! (Increase chances of confederation)

    Greenskins: Summon Colossal Squig

    Beastmen: Summon Jabberslythe

    Brettonia: Call Errantry War (reworked med2 crusade mechanic)

    Wood Elves: Move Army across map via world roots
  • kufareekufaree Registered Users Posts: 750
    If CA add 1-1 new lords, 1-1 new units to beastmen and wood elves, I will be very happy... Rites? I don't think so
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,513
    edited January 2018
    BoldElf said:



    I don't know how you can say this would make them less unique. The fact they have access to rites doesn't diminish their uniqueness as its the rites they have that are unique and they all add really interesting buffs and alterations to the game. e.g. the fact that the Skaven can recruit 2 unique heroes that have abilities that are not present to anyone else is very unique (just because other factions e.g. the Tomb kings will be able to use a rite to summon a hero doesn't deminish what the factions specific heroes do).

    While I agree that the rites are not the key factors that make the new 4 factions unique its a nice addition that could suit all the old world factions if they all had their own unique rites resulting in a bit more depth to each existing faction.

    Key word is IF. But every race (yes, individual factions do not have different Rites) having similar mechanics will contribute to less uniqueness, not more. Your post actually admits to this, just adding "but if". Which I never disputed.

    EDIT:

    After recently playing Bretonnians for an experiment, I think Rites for Bretonnians can be made like the following:

    Distinguishing concepts:
    Like all Rites types, this one has a different name which I'll just call Edicts.
    -Edicts cost only chivalry; more chivalry can be spent to use another rite the next five turns, which each successive turn reducing chivalry cost, so you either spend lots now, or spend less later, player's choice in a strategy game, go figure.
    -Edicts have drawbacks to them, so choosing one may have negative impact on certain elements of the game. An edict can boost income but incur a control penalty, for instance.
    -Edicts are toggled, they do not expire until you choose to cancel them. You can after the initial waiting period have all Edicts turned on. Each successive Edict toggled cost more chivalry, so you may not have enough until well into the game unless you've been doing nothing but chivalrous stuff and rapidly accumulating it. You may want to eventually cancel them to adjust your strategy if the penalties are not suitable.
    -Revolt modifies: revolts that are not Chaos, Vampiric or Skaven will result in modified rebel armies of large size to immediately spawn. If multiple edicts are toggled, the revolts will be randomized according which one is active.

    Peasant Based Rite:
    Bonuses: Temporarily increases peasant economy OR reduce their upkeep to zero; doubles replenishment rate and farm/ industry income.
    Penalties: 50% increase to all public order penalty effects, ie -4 to taxes becomes -6; additional attrition casualties to Peasant units from all sources; Untainted revolts will spawn large peasant armies with high experience, including foot squires

    Knights based Rite:
    Bonuses: knights+Paladin hero gain combat buffs, doubles replenishment rate
    Penalties: additional upkeep and attrition casualties to knight units from all sources; Untainted revolts will spawn large knight armies with high experience, including pegasus knights

    Magic based Rite:
    Bonuses: buffs for mages, untainted, attrition resistance, increased Winds of Magic
    Penalties: reduced combat attributes for all mages; Untainted revolts will spawn large combined armies with high experience, including mages with spells

    Summon Green Knight:
    limiting to four and never again is stupid. Costing chivalry and hefty cooldown time in a gigantic campaign map is more sensible. Paladins gain XP bonus during duration, and units in Green Knight's army gin huge leadership buff. This Edict needs to be un-toggled in order to begin Green Knight's recovery period if he is Wounded.
    Penalties: increased Wound Recovery times for all characters, Untainted revolts will disable all Green Knight bonuses until Edict is re-toggled.

    In addition, Green Knight button is replaced by Errantry War, which is like Crusade from MTW2 and War Coordination Target. You select an existing hostile/ enemy faction (that is not Bretonnian), and you gain bonuses to things like post-battle loot and leadership against that faction's troops; the more battles you win, the greater the bonuses until it has expired. Target faction will hate you more.
    Post edited by daelin4 on

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • epic_160095107267RzXYm7Mepic_160095107267RzXYm7M Registered Users Posts: 358
    edited January 2018
    I went into ME mildly excited wondering how rites had been implemented. To what extent had old world factions been changed?

    I expected rites to have been removed, being the easiest fix to balance between TWW1 and TWW2; coupled with them having no real story application outside of the Vortex ritual.

    What I found was simply a bodge job of cut / paste between the two games with no meaningful development and intergration.

    Coupled with that it seems to be a very old version of TWW1 which was used and not even the latest (I.e. dwarf dominance, incorrect reinforcement positions)

    Good Job it was free*

    --------

    How are pre-orders looking these days CA?

    Enjoying playing Stellaris by the way.

  • capybarasiesta89capybarasiesta89 Senior Member Bath, UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,189
    edited January 2018
    Rites for OW factions are needed. Period.

    I don't even want to look back at them anymore, as I said either keep rites in Vortex only or add new ones.

    There is always space to add more of them, especially that each Race has own pantheon.

    Like Rites of Sigmar/Ulric, Morr, Taal, Shalya.

    Or like Skavens it doesn't need to be God related, couls be say like Rite of Geheimnisnacht for Vampires.

    Rites must be added.
    #JusticeForTzeentch #JusticeForMonogods

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  • misunderstoodvampiremisunderstoodvampire Registered Users Posts: 1,199
    They aren't going to get them. Not at least until after game 3
  • rothamon81rothamon81 AustriaRegistered Users Posts: 150
    Can they be modded in? I guess not since someone would have already done so. Would be nice if they at least made it possible for mods to do so.

    Praise the modders!
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,429
    VincentNZ said:

    I doubt it very strongly. Adding features for Game I factions costs a lot of work and money, but in the same time does not generate any money itself.
    Adding some obscure rites to six factions along with the mechanic just for ME will not boost sales. Adding a random LL for a random WHII faction will though for a fraction of the cost.

    Technically there can always be some new buyers, and CA can add the Rites for the Old World Factions as part of an DLC. But if it would not happen, it's mainly because financial reasons.
  • AwesomeLionAwesomeLion Member Registered Users Posts: 1,281
    This gives me hope:



    To be more specific, this part:



    Giving them rites would be a great way to improve them.
    Total War: Warhammer <3
  • BoldElfBoldElf Registered Users Posts: 191

    This gives me hope:



    To be more specific, this part:



    Giving them rites would be a great way to improve them.

    I saw that the other day it sounds awesome :) I think there is an update to the older factions coming in with the Tomb kings as well so it will be nice to see what that is
  • A_MushroomA_Mushroom Registered Users Posts: 278

    I suppose this will give you hope as well then ^^ This was already over 3 months ago on the topic 'No current plan to give Old World Races Rites in Mortal Empires'.
  • EarlybirdEarlybird Registered Users Posts: 916
    Beastmen : Rite of Roster

    Spawn an army of Tuskgor Chariots, Jabberslythe and Ghorghon led by a Doombull.
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,035
    edited January 2018
    Earlybird said:

    Beastmen : Rite of Roster

    Spawn an army of Tuskgor Chariots, Jabberslythe and Ghorghon led by a Doombull Lord Charlemagne.

    Fixed.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

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