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the overall kind of balance in MP is bad and at moment not fun to play for me. TK= greatbows +1-3 ultra fast and high armored monsters WE = waystalker power Chaos = upgraded marauder frontline with upgraded troll back up and maybe shaggoths and/ or Kholek GS = blackorc frontline or a lot of cav+ skirmish archers VC = 2 terrorgheits + lord on dragon bretonnia = 4 grailknights or air Dwarfs = rangend spam + net and so on ( yeah you can beat this army but then i have to make a little bit special armys for this )
just boring at moment
realy hope CA bring back the feeling we had in game 1. more army variations who work fine and not more like ultimate builds
* TK: Yes, this faction needs some tweaks. * WE: Disagreed. WE have a lot of viable builds. * Chaos: Disagreed. Chaos Warriors and Chosen are for sure more popular than marauders currently. * GS: Well, I prefer SOBU most of the times but it's true that most of the people are picking Black Orcs spam these days. * VC: Agreed. 1 or 2 Terror + Lord is pretty common these days. Part of the problem is the single entity monsters meta and Blood Knights underperforming against armored monsters. * Bretonnia: Yep, Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are carrying with Bretonnia these days, the Bretonnia roster still needs some work (nerfs and buffs). * Dwarfs: Disagreed. Dwarfs have tons of viable builds.
Regarding overall balancing, this is the first time I have seen tournaments where almost every faction is being picked consistently and not only 3 or 4 OP factions. Sadly, the Empire is the only faction which is having a hard time in tournaments and almost nobody is picking it. Plus elite infantry units and ground monsters are finally useful and every kind of unit has a role in the game. I prefer the WH2 balancing but it's true that there is a big margin for improvements.
"Reikland Runefang"-ability should have an 55m radius and maybe even +25% CB "Benediction"-ability should have an 40m radius "Soulfire" could apply an "Burnt"-trait Empire captain should have "Stand your ground!"-ability.
The luminark suggestions are flat out dumb. The thing puts out so much alpha damage that it's ridiculous, it can almost one shot a lot of lords. Many of the suggestions for the luminark would just make it pure cancer.
Whats flat out dumb is ppl dont realise how weak luminark is. 1 shotting lots of lords is outright trash talking without testing and absolutely nothing to back it.
Been said so many times and ppl still smart enough to argue against facts. Ppl have a habit of circle jerking themselves and in complete denial of numbers showed.
But as mentioned there will be no viable balance for such a useless race when all u have is 9/10 ppl trying to hold them down as much as possible.
The luminark suggestions are flat out dumb. The thing puts out so much alpha damage that it's ridiculous, it can almost one shot a lot of lords. Many of the suggestions for the luminark would just make it pure cancer.
1 shotting lots of lords is outright trash talking without testing and absolutely nothing to back it.
Empire needs some more robust infantry. Greatswords are push overs for most high morale AP infantries.
As empire It is very hard to fight offensively against any faction that can counter arty and has a high morale, AP frontline. Dwarves, DE and HE are all huge threats for this reason. HE is the least threatening because empire calvary can trade very well against HE calvary, but their 180 range archers + dragon combo poses a unique threat to empire.
I really think it comes down to tweaking greatswords so that they can win more soundly against white lions and long beards, while being able to at least trade evenly with executioners, hammers and some more expensive units.
I would start by looking at greatswords morale. But honestly it's very hard for me to say anything about the state of empire balance because all of their weaknesses and strengths are mild and it's often hard to figure out what exactly caused a loss or victory.
Agreed. Dwarfs, DE and HE are hard MUs for the Empire but as you say, these MUs have become much better after the last patches. I have some Empire builds which I have been winning consistently against HE and Dwarfs but I probably would lose if I would have to face someone on a similar skill level but still, I remember some time ago when these MUs were close to being impossible and the current situation is a way better for sure. On the other hand, I think that the Empire is close to being viable in tournaments and there are currently some scenarios where Empire is able to do it decently and it's almost where it should. The units/characters which could receive some little buffs IMO:
- Karl Franz: The Emperor is always able to receive more buffs until he becomes OP . - Volkmar the Grim: He is a good lord but too expensive with altar and abilities. A little cost reduction for altar and/or abilities would be helpful. - Arch Lector: MA buff. - Warrior Priest: Little buff or abilities cost reduction. - Swordsmen: Small leadership buff. - Greatswords: Small leadership buff. - Free Company Militia: +1 AP Missile damage -1 Damage or just + Missile Damage (to compensate the All units getting more HP nerf). - Pistoliers: Ammo buff and small melee buff. - Mortar: Small accuracy buff. - Helblaster Volley Gun: -100 cost or so. - Helstorm Rocket Battery: It's the only unit which needs a big buff or a redesign. - Steam Tank: MD buff and/or other buffs. - Luminark: Buff or cost reduction. Improving the line of sight issue could work.
And one nerf:
- Witch Hunter-Accusation: Add charges or another kind of nerf.
People are asking for Halberds buffs but I think this unit is already good/decent and great if you pay some chevrons for them.
Deathclaw; +200 hp Reikland runefang; AoE up to 55m, +25% CB Ghal Maraz: magic damage
Volkmar the Grim Gets a new bound spell; "Light of Hope" from the lore of light. Spell is already attached to his chariot aswell as banishment.
Arch Lector: +5 MA
Warrior priest: swap melee attack and MD values +20 armor
Sigmarite battleprayers;
"Benediction"-ability radius gets increased to 40m
Normal( Warrior priests) "hammer of sigmar"- ability imbues magic damage.
"Soulfire"-ability imbues an "burnt" for targets hit by the spell. Because bendiction will have the same range, the penalty is nullified to friendlies.
"Supernatural Power"-ability imbues an +15 penalty to ability recharge time.
Empire captain; -25g gets the "stand your ground" ability
Witch hunter: "Accusation"-ability does no longer direct damage, but imbues an melee defense and physical resistance debuff.
And he needs new abilities. He is the one that counters all the nasty supernatural stuff.
"Silver Bullets"; give him magic ranged damage and + AP
"Talisman of banishment"; imbues an leadership penalty for enemy units of 4
+10 armor; +6MA/MD
Halberdiers:
+1 MA; -50g
Greatswords:
+2 MD
Crossbowmen:
-25g ( perfect middle between quarellers and peasant bowmen)
Pistoliers:
+4 MA/MD; +10 armor; +6CB; +2 ammo and +1 AP; +50g
Hellstorm roeckt battery (+RoR)
AP Explosive/ Explosive needs to be 50/50 and +10 of each; -100g
Not a bad list, can i just ask why buff to halbadiers? I think they much better than people give them credit for while not OP or anything, in my view they quite a balanced unit.
I would add about +2 or 3 LD to state troops also.
Steam tank and luminark could use something i think they both about 250 gold overpriced currently but would like to see them stay high cost so other buff would be good. Steam Tank could use +10MD and Luminark more ammo and explosion radius and line of sight bug fixes.
Luminark needs -33% dmg and +10 ammo. I dont know why they have 0 explosion dmg and currently works exactly the same as super overpriced cannon. U use to be able to do 40% dmg to a swordsman, while costing $210 per shot to do a $160 return, now u kill like 12 swordsman getting $40 in return lol. $210 per shot is simply not viable in any way.
Thats just the bare minimun, they r too costly, inaccurate, slow projectile speed, provides 0 utility to units nearby. They need a strong aura, a cheap cygor has a mapwide 50% miscast. They need somekind of magic support, like faster mana recharge, magic resist etc etc.
Tanks need immune to vigour, increase accuracy and projectile speed, back to where they were before. This random unneeded stealth nerfs just stupid, their steam cannon is totally unusable now, slow projectile, inaccurate, low dmg.
As ultimates of empire, these 2 bad units r never picked in high end, ever.
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Concerning handgunners LOS bug : are you really sure guys that's a bug ? Because, each time it happened to me, I just zoomed on the battleground, and got with my camera the handgunner's unit point of view, and then noticed that there was actually, each time, a small mound that REALLY obstructed their line of sight (a mound that you can't see if you don't zoom).
Steam tank and luminark could use something i think they both about 250 gold overpriced currently but would like to see them stay high cost so other buff would be good. Steam Tank could use +10MD and Luminark more ammo and explosion radius and line of sight bug fixes.
The Steamtank is in need of serious changes. Adding stats is a waste. I've been desperately trying to use the Steamtank in MP and QB and it just has a very mild impact for its price. It averages low kills for me in pretty much all circumstances and forces me to give up important parts of munch army to use it.
The effects of fatigue are extreme on the Steamtank because it hurts pretty much all of the important stats MD, armor and speed (admitably it still has good armor at exhausted). The Steamtank is its own biggest threat and trying to squeeze any use out of it causes it to spiral into exhaustion quickly.
It's appalling, firing the cannon should not tax the Steamtank in the way that it does currently. Atm the Steamtank will exhaust itself by the time the enemy make sure it to your army just by shooting its cannon. This has been my experience with the steamtank.
I also have been completely unimpressed with the Steamtank's mêlée performance. It doesn't seem to really have an impact and in my experience it gets stuck fighting basic infantry units without dealing noticeable damage.
And honestly, I don't even notice the steam gun anymore.
you can buy a cannon/mortar, a griffin for your general and a unit of empire knights for 2400. That combination of units covers all of the utility of the Steamtank without the built in ranged/melee contradiction, the absolutely pitiful MD and fatigue death spiral.
Steam tank and luminark could use something i think they both about 250 gold overpriced currently but would like to see them stay high cost so other buff would be good. Steam Tank could use +10MD and Luminark more ammo and explosion radius and line of sight bug fixes.
The Steamtank is in need of serious changes. Adding stats is a waste. I've been desperately trying to use the Steamtank in MP and QB and it just has a very mild impact for its price. It averages low kills for me in pretty much all circumstances and forces me to give up important parts of munch army to use it.
The effects of fatigue are extreme on the Steamtank because it hurts pretty much all of the important stats MD, armor and speed (admitably it still has good armor at exhausted). The Steamtank is its own biggest threat and trying to squeeze any use out of it causes it to spiral into exhaustion quickly.
It's appalling, firing the cannon should not tax the Steamtank in the way that it does currently. Atm the Steamtank will exhaust itself by the time the enemy make sure it to your army just by shooting its cannon. This has been my experience with the steamtank.
I also have been completely unimpressed with the Steamtank's mêlée performance. It doesn't seem to really have an impact and in my experience it gets stuck fighting basic infantry units without dealing noticeable damage.
And honestly, I don't even notice the steam gun anymore.
you can buy a cannon/mortar, a griffin for your general and a unit of empire knights for 2400. That combination of units covers all of the utility of the Steamtank without the built in ranged/melee contradiction, the absolutely pitiful MD and fatigue death spiral.
Steam Tank cannon is rather accurate, but its main issue is that it can be super devastating vs certain factions, so buffing it too much is a mistake in my view. Main things about it is thats its super hard to kill and it causes terror. Steam gun feels like an extra and it doesn't have ammo which i think it should. I dunno i think at range its quite strong almost a bit too strong but its melee performance i agree with its rather weak, i do think +MD would be good tho.
Steam tank and luminark could use something i think they both about 250 gold overpriced currently but would like to see them stay high cost so other buff would be good. Steam Tank could use +10MD and Luminark more ammo and explosion radius and line of sight bug fixes.
The Steamtank is in need of serious changes. Adding stats is a waste. I've been desperately trying to use the Steamtank in MP and QB and it just has a very mild impact for its price. It averages low kills for me in pretty much all circumstances and forces me to give up important parts of munch army to use it.
The effects of fatigue are extreme on the Steamtank because it hurts pretty much all of the important stats MD, armor and speed (admitably it still has good armor at exhausted). The Steamtank is its own biggest threat and trying to squeeze any use out of it causes it to spiral into exhaustion quickly.
It's appalling, firing the cannon should not tax the Steamtank in the way that it does currently. Atm the Steamtank will exhaust itself by the time the enemy make sure it to your army just by shooting its cannon. This has been my experience with the steamtank.
I also have been completely unimpressed with the Steamtank's mêlée performance. It doesn't seem to really have an impact and in my experience it gets stuck fighting basic infantry units without dealing noticeable damage.
And honestly, I don't even notice the steam gun anymore.
you can buy a cannon/mortar, a griffin for your general and a unit of empire knights for 2400. That combination of units covers all of the utility of the Steamtank without the built in ranged/melee contradiction, the absolutely pitiful MD and fatigue death spiral.
Steam Tank cannon is rather accurate, but its main issue is that it can be super devastating vs certain factions, so buffing it too much is a mistake in my view. Main things about it is thats its super hard to kill and it causes terror. Steam gun feels like an extra and it doesn't have ammo which i think it should. I dunno i think at range its quite strong almost a bit too strong but its melee performance i agree with its rather weak, i do think +MD would be good tho.
Empire needs some more robust infantry. Greatswords are push overs for most high morale AP infantries.
As empire It is very hard to fight offensively against any faction that can counter arty and has a high morale, AP frontline. Dwarves, DE and HE are all huge threats for this reason. HE is the least threatening because empire calvary can trade very well against HE calvary, but their 180 range archers + dragon combo poses a unique threat to empire.
I really think it comes down to tweaking greatswords so that they can win more soundly against white lions and long beards, while being able to at least trade evenly with executioners, hammers and some more expensive units.
I would start by looking at greatswords morale. But honestly it's very hard for me to say anything about the state of empire balance because all of their weaknesses and strengths are mild and it's often hard to figure out what exactly caused a loss or victory.
Greatswords need an immunity to pyschology (or at least fear) and maybe an "inspiring presence" ability similiar to the longbeards "old grumblers".
Steam tank and luminark could use something i think they both about 250 gold overpriced currently but would like to see them stay high cost so other buff would be good. Steam Tank could use +10MD and Luminark more ammo and explosion radius and line of sight bug fixes.
The Steamtank is in need of serious changes. Adding stats is a waste. I've been desperately trying to use the Steamtank in MP and QB and it just has a very mild impact for its price. It averages low kills for me in pretty much all circumstances and forces me to give up important parts of munch army to use it.
The effects of fatigue are extreme on the Steamtank because it hurts pretty much all of the important stats MD, armor and speed (admitably it still has good armor at exhausted). The Steamtank is its own biggest threat and trying to squeeze any use out of it causes it to spiral into exhaustion quickly.
It's appalling, firing the cannon should not tax the Steamtank in the way that it does currently. Atm the Steamtank will exhaust itself by the time the enemy make sure it to your army just by shooting its cannon. This has been my experience with the steamtank.
I also have been completely unimpressed with the Steamtank's mêlée performance. It doesn't seem to really have an impact and in my experience it gets stuck fighting basic infantry units without dealing noticeable damage.
And honestly, I don't even notice the steam gun anymore.
you can buy a cannon/mortar, a griffin for your general and a unit of empire knights for 2400. That combination of units covers all of the utility of the Steamtank without the built in ranged/melee contradiction, the absolutely pitiful MD and fatigue death spiral.
Steam Tank cannon is rather accurate, but its main issue is that it can be super devastating vs certain factions, so buffing it too much is a mistake in my view. Main things about it is thats its super hard to kill and it causes terror. Steam gun feels like an extra and it doesn't have ammo which i think it should. I dunno i think at range its quite strong almost a bit too strong but its melee performance i agree with its rather weak, i do think +MD would be good tho.
Against which factions could it overperform?
Non, he's talking out his ass. The steamtank exhausting itself at the start of the battle is ridiculous. It should be immune to vigor period, as at 2200 there isnt anything else at that cost which performs as poorly as it.
Steam Tank cannon is rather accurate, but its main issue is that it can be super devastating vs certain factions, so buffing it too much is a mistake in my view. Main things about it is thats its super hard to kill and it causes terror. Steam gun feels like an extra and it doesn't have ammo which i think it should. I dunno i think at range its quite strong almost a bit too strong but its melee performance i agree with its rather weak, i do think +MD would be good tho.
I'm not sure if you mean the Steamtank or the cannon can be too devastating to some factions. Both I disagree with and cite regular cannons and dragons as evidence. Any faction that can handle dragons can handle a Steamtank.
Anyways, I agree about the cannon. The cannon on the Steamtank is extremely powerful. and i have been pleased with it. But IMO your not going to retrieve any more value by sitting around and firing the cannon than you could with 2x cannons or a hammer of witches and at the start of the game where the cannon will fire most of its good shots before allies block shots, the mobility of then steamtank doesn't give it a noticeable advantage. Good, but it does not justify the issues the unit has.
+MD is whatever to me. It's nice but it is not helping the Steamtank pay itself off. The enemy will just do what they keep doing to me which is kill the smaller, rest of my army and then kill the exhausted Steamtank when they want to.
Empire needs some more robust infantry. Greatswords are push overs for most high morale AP infantries.
As empire It is very hard to fight offensively against any faction that can counter arty and has a high morale, AP frontline. Dwarves, DE and HE are all huge threats for this reason. HE is the least threatening because empire calvary can trade very well against HE calvary, but their 180 range archers + dragon combo poses a unique threat to empire.
I really think it comes down to tweaking greatswords so that they can win more soundly against white lions and long beards, while being able to at least trade evenly with executioners, hammers and some more expensive units.
I would start by looking at greatswords morale. But honestly it's very hard for me to say anything about the state of empire balance because all of their weaknesses and strengths are mild and it's often hard to figure out what exactly caused a loss or victory.
Greatswords need an immunity to pyschology (or at least fear) and maybe an "inspiring presence" ability similiar to the longbeards "old grumblers".
In tabletop thy had the rule stubborn. that allowa them to stay in combat for longer unless the enemy cause fear or terror.
So fear and terror were in fact the safest way to route them.
Fear and terror are supposed to be their counter.
They only need a small leadership buff plus 2 or 3.
Agreed. Dwarfs, DE and HE are hard MUs for the Empire but as you say, these MUs have become much better after the last patches. I have some Empire builds which I have been winning consistently against HE and Dwarfs but I probably would lose if I would have to face someone on a similar skill level but still, I remember some time ago when these MUs were close to being impossible and the current situation is a way better for sure. On the other hand, I think that the Empire is close to being viable in tournaments and there are currently some scenarios where Empire is able to do it decently and it's almost where it should. The units/characters which could receive some little buffs IMO:
- Karl Franz: The Emperor is always able to receive more buffs until he becomes OP . - Volkmar the Grim: He is a good lord but too expensive with altar and abilities. A little cost reduction for altar and/or abilities would be helpful. - Arch Lector: MA buff. - Warrior Priest: Little buff or abilities cost reduction. - Swordsmen: Small leadership buff. - Greatswords: Small leadership buff. - Free Company Militia: +1 AP Missile damage -1 Damage or just + Missile Damage (to compensate the All units getting more HP nerf). - Pistoliers: Ammo buff and small melee buff. - Mortar: Small accuracy buff. - Helblaster Volley Gun: -100 cost or so. - Helstorm Rocket Battery: It's the only unit which needs a big buff or a redesign. - Steam Tank: MD buff and/or other buffs. - Luminark: Buff or cost reduction. Improving the line of sight issue could work.
And one nerf:
- Witch Hunter-Accusation: Add charges or another kind of nerf.
People are asking for Halberds buffs but I think this unit is already good/decent and great if you pay some chevrons for them.
Do not agree with pistoliers.
The other day BBB mMm beat me using a lot of them.
In fact that was my first defeat as HE and De fighting the empire.
An when i told him that people in the forums still want more buffs to this unit he didnt understand it.
He only said that maybe an small ammo buff was needed. And that in general they are fine.
Agreed. Dwarfs, DE and HE are hard MUs for the Empire but as you say, these MUs have become much better after the last patches. I have some Empire builds which I have been winning consistently against HE and Dwarfs but I probably would lose if I would have to face someone on a similar skill level but still, I remember some time ago when these MUs were close to being impossible and the current situation is a way better for sure. On the other hand, I think that the Empire is close to being viable in tournaments and there are currently some scenarios where Empire is able to do it decently and it's almost where it should. The units/characters which could receive some little buffs IMO:
- Karl Franz: The Emperor is always able to receive more buffs until he becomes OP . - Volkmar the Grim: He is a good lord but too expensive with altar and abilities. A little cost reduction for altar and/or abilities would be helpful. - Arch Lector: MA buff. - Warrior Priest: Little buff or abilities cost reduction. - Swordsmen: Small leadership buff. - Greatswords: Small leadership buff. - Free Company Militia: +1 AP Missile damage -1 Damage or just + Missile Damage (to compensate the All units getting more HP nerf). - Pistoliers: Ammo buff and small melee buff. - Mortar: Small accuracy buff. - Helblaster Volley Gun: -100 cost or so. - Helstorm Rocket Battery: It's the only unit which needs a big buff or a redesign. - Steam Tank: MD buff and/or other buffs. - Luminark: Buff or cost reduction. Improving the line of sight issue could work.
And one nerf:
- Witch Hunter-Accusation: Add charges or another kind of nerf.
People are asking for Halberds buffs but I think this unit is already good/decent and great if you pay some chevrons for them.
Do not agree with pistoliers.
The other day BBB mMm beat me using a lot of them.
In fact that was my first defeat as HE and De fighting the empire.
An when i told him that people in the forums still want more buffs to this unit he didnt understand it.
He only said that maybe an small ammo buff was needed. And that in general they are fine.
Well, everyone has his/her own opinions about balancing and own experiences. Soothsayer won me some time ago with 2 Death Globe Bombardiers units playing SKV vs HE (it was pretty humiliant ) but I wouldn't take that as an example to say that DGB don't need maybe a buff or cost reduction. Anyway, a small melee buff and a bit extra ammo won't make this unit OP for sure.
I mean... Pistoliers are not even able to take 40% HP of Goblin Wolf Riders. Their melee performance is really really bad.
Agreed. Dwarfs, DE and HE are hard MUs for the Empire but as you say, these MUs have become much better after the last patches. I have some Empire builds which I have been winning consistently against HE and Dwarfs but I probably would lose if I would have to face someone on a similar skill level but still, I remember some time ago when these MUs were close to being impossible and the current situation is a way better for sure. On the other hand, I think that the Empire is close to being viable in tournaments and there are currently some scenarios where Empire is able to do it decently and it's almost where it should. The units/characters which could receive some little buffs IMO:
- Karl Franz: The Emperor is always able to receive more buffs until he becomes OP . - Volkmar the Grim: He is a good lord but too expensive with altar and abilities. A little cost reduction for altar and/or abilities would be helpful. - Arch Lector: MA buff. - Warrior Priest: Little buff or abilities cost reduction. - Swordsmen: Small leadership buff. - Greatswords: Small leadership buff. - Free Company Militia: +1 AP Missile damage -1 Damage or just + Missile Damage (to compensate the All units getting more HP nerf). - Pistoliers: Ammo buff and small melee buff. - Mortar: Small accuracy buff. - Helblaster Volley Gun: -100 cost or so. - Helstorm Rocket Battery: It's the only unit which needs a big buff or a redesign. - Steam Tank: MD buff and/or other buffs. - Luminark: Buff or cost reduction. Improving the line of sight issue could work.
And one nerf:
- Witch Hunter-Accusation: Add charges or another kind of nerf.
People are asking for Halberds buffs but I think this unit is already good/decent and great if you pay some chevrons for them.
Do not agree with pistoliers.
The other day BBB mMm beat me using a lot of them.
In fact that was my first defeat as HE and De fighting the empire.
An when i told him that people in the forums still want more buffs to this unit he didnt understand it.
He only said that maybe an small ammo buff was needed. And that in general they are fine.
Well, everyone has his/her own opinions about balancing and own experiences. Soothsayer won me some time ago with 2 Death Globe Bombardiers units playing SKV vs HE (it was pretty humiliant ) but I wouldn't take that as an example to say that DGB don't need maybe a buff or cost reduction. Anyway, a small melee buff and a bit extra ammo won't make this unit OP for sure.
I mean... Pistoliers are not even able to take 40% HP of Goblin Wolf Riders. Their melee performance is really really bad.
I think the idea is vs an enemy with no fast cav like de they can do decent shooting damage for their cost.
Steam tank and luminark could use something i think they both about 250 gold overpriced currently but would like to see them stay high cost so other buff would be good. Steam Tank could use +10MD and Luminark more ammo and explosion radius and line of sight bug fixes.
The Steamtank is in need of serious changes. Adding stats is a waste. I've been desperately trying to use the Steamtank in MP and QB and it just has a very mild impact for its price. It averages low kills for me in pretty much all circumstances and forces me to give up important parts of munch army to use it.
The effects of fatigue are extreme on the Steamtank because it hurts pretty much all of the important stats MD, armor and speed (admitably it still has good armor at exhausted). The Steamtank is its own biggest threat and trying to squeeze any use out of it causes it to spiral into exhaustion quickly.
It's appalling, firing the cannon should not tax the Steamtank in the way that it does currently. Atm the Steamtank will exhaust itself by the time the enemy make sure it to your army just by shooting its cannon. This has been my experience with the steamtank.
I also have been completely unimpressed with the Steamtank's mêlée performance. It doesn't seem to really have an impact and in my experience it gets stuck fighting basic infantry units without dealing noticeable damage.
And honestly, I don't even notice the steam gun anymore.
you can buy a cannon/mortar, a griffin for your general and a unit of empire knights for 2400. That combination of units covers all of the utility of the Steamtank without the built in ranged/melee contradiction, the absolutely pitiful MD and fatigue death spiral.
Steam Tank cannon is rather accurate, but its main issue is that it can be super devastating vs certain factions, so buffing it too much is a mistake in my view. Main things about it is thats its super hard to kill and it causes terror. Steam gun feels like an extra and it doesn't have ammo which i think it should. I dunno i think at range its quite strong almost a bit too strong but its melee performance i agree with its rather weak, i do think +MD would be good tho.
Against which factions could it overperform?
I feel at the moment its good vs Greenskins, HE, BM (not so much those-days)
But adding immune to vigour would be good also, btw the fatigue loss bug needs to be fixed.
The problem for empire is the meta and handgunner change. In game 1 taking monsters against empire was a huge risk because net and handguns shut it down thankfully..... but not that handguns are slightly bugged and all HP is increased monsters just smash every infantry unit they have. And monstrous inf getting 12 models was a terrible idea.
The problem for empire is the meta and handgunner change. In game 1 taking monsters against empire was a huge risk because net and handguns shut it down thankfully..... but not that handguns are slightly bugged and all HP is increased monsters just smash every infantry unit they have. And monstrous inf getting 12 models was a terrible idea.
Yea, I feel if Handgunners were to be made more reliable, it would solve like 60% of Empire problems. Having AP ranged is big in this game, and Empire currently can really use only Outriders and Crossbows for range. Both versions of Outriders are good, but basic one is not always preferable to Handgunners, because cost wise they trade some DPS and total damage with it's ammo for mobility and better firing angles. And I'm not sure if reload bug with them has been fixed.
Edit: Btw, I still think that giving Handgunners 2x damage per bullet, 2x reload speed(thus leaving DPS the same) while decreasing ammo by 40%(so better total damage than before, but not by a lot) would be pretty cool and it would give them interesting faction flavor. Devastating volleys, but long reload, this would make them way better at "fire, retreat, fire" tactic. Also first volley before lines meet would be way more impactful.
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0 · Disagree Agree* WE: Disagreed. WE have a lot of viable builds.
* Chaos: Disagreed. Chaos Warriors and Chosen are for sure more popular than marauders currently.
* GS: Well, I prefer SOBU most of the times but it's true that most of the people are picking Black Orcs spam these days.
* VC: Agreed. 1 or 2 Terror + Lord is pretty common these days. Part of the problem is the single entity monsters meta and Blood Knights underperforming against armored monsters.
* Bretonnia: Yep, Grail Knights and Grail Guardians are carrying with Bretonnia these days, the Bretonnia roster still needs some work (nerfs and buffs).
* Dwarfs: Disagreed. Dwarfs have tons of viable builds.
Regarding overall balancing, this is the first time I have seen tournaments where almost every faction is being picked consistently and not only 3 or 4 OP factions. Sadly, the Empire is the only faction which is having a hard time in tournaments and almost nobody is picking it. Plus elite infantry units and ground monsters are finally useful and every kind of unit has a role in the game. I prefer the WH2 balancing but it's true that there is a big margin for improvements.
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4 · Disagree AgreeA few examples;
"Reikland Runefang"-ability should have an 55m radius and maybe even +25% CB
"Benediction"-ability should have an 40m radius
"Soulfire" could apply an "Burnt"-trait
Empire captain should have "Stand your ground!"-ability.
This along side a few other changes would do
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0 · Disagree AgreeBeen said so many times and ppl still smart enough to argue against facts. Ppl have a habit of circle jerking themselves and in complete denial of numbers showed.
But as mentioned there will be no viable balance for such a useless race when all u have is 9/10 ppl trying to hold them down as much as possible.
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0 · Disagree AgreeMind you, I also said "almost."
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0 · Disagree AgreeTop #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
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0 · Disagree AgreeGunpowderBows- Report
2 · Disagree AgreeAs empire It is very hard to fight offensively against any faction that can counter arty and has a high morale, AP frontline. Dwarves, DE and HE are all huge threats for this reason. HE is the least threatening because empire calvary can trade very well against HE calvary, but their 180 range archers + dragon combo poses a unique threat to empire.
I really think it comes down to tweaking greatswords so that they can win more soundly against white lions and long beards, while being able to at least trade evenly with executioners, hammers and some more expensive units.
I would start by looking at greatswords morale. But honestly it's very hard for me to say anything about the state of empire balance because all of their weaknesses and strengths are mild and it's often hard to figure out what exactly caused a loss or victory.
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5 · Disagree Agree- Karl Franz: The Emperor is always able to receive more buffs until he becomes OP
- Volkmar the Grim: He is a good lord but too expensive with altar and abilities. A little cost reduction for altar and/or abilities would be helpful.
- Arch Lector: MA buff.
- Warrior Priest: Little buff or abilities cost reduction.
- Swordsmen: Small leadership buff.
- Greatswords: Small leadership buff.
- Free Company Militia: +1 AP Missile damage -1 Damage or just + Missile Damage (to compensate the All units getting more HP nerf).
- Pistoliers: Ammo buff and small melee buff.
- Mortar: Small accuracy buff.
- Helblaster Volley Gun: -100 cost or so.
- Helstorm Rocket Battery: It's the only unit which needs a big buff or a redesign.
- Steam Tank: MD buff and/or other buffs.
- Luminark: Buff or cost reduction. Improving the line of sight issue could work.
And one nerf:
- Witch Hunter-Accusation: Add charges or another kind of nerf.
People are asking for Halberds buffs but I think this unit is already good/decent and great if you pay some chevrons for them.
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7 · Disagree AgreeGeneral: armored steeds -50g;
Karl Franz:
Deathclaw; +200 hp
Reikland runefang; AoE up to 55m, +25% CB
Ghal Maraz: magic damage
Volkmar the Grim
Gets a new bound spell; "Light of Hope" from the lore of light. Spell is already attached to his chariot aswell as banishment.
Arch Lector:
+5 MA
Warrior priest:
swap melee attack and MD values
+20 armor
Sigmarite battleprayers;
"Benediction"-ability radius gets increased to 40m
Normal( Warrior priests) "hammer of sigmar"- ability imbues magic damage.
"Soulfire"-ability imbues an "burnt" for targets hit by the spell. Because bendiction will have the same range, the penalty is nullified to friendlies.
"Supernatural Power"-ability imbues an +15 penalty to ability recharge time.
Empire captain;
-25g
gets the "stand your ground" ability
Witch hunter:
"Accusation"-ability does no longer direct damage, but imbues an melee defense and physical resistance debuff.
And he needs new abilities. He is the one that counters all the nasty supernatural stuff.
"Silver Bullets"; give him magic ranged damage and + AP
"Talisman of banishment"; imbues an leadership penalty for enemy units of 4
+10 armor; +6MA/MD
Halberdiers:
+1 MA; -50g
Greatswords:
+2 MD
Crossbowmen:
-25g ( perfect middle between quarellers and peasant bowmen)
Pistoliers:
+4 MA/MD; +10 armor; +6CB; +2 ammo and +1 AP; +50g
Hellstorm roeckt battery (+RoR)
AP Explosive/ Explosive needs to be 50/50 and +10 of each; -100g
?
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1 · Disagree AgreeNot a bad list, can i just ask why buff to halbadiers? I think they much better than people give them credit for while not OP or anything, in my view they quite a balanced unit.
I would add about +2 or 3 LD to state troops also.
Steam tank and luminark could use something i think they both about 250 gold overpriced currently but would like to see them stay high cost so other buff would be good. Steam Tank could use +10MD and Luminark more ammo and explosion radius and line of sight bug fixes.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAlso it is better to have an slightly too good unit then an slightly too bad unit.
Normal statetroops are fine, with the polished heroes/lords they will perform much better.
Luminark should get
+5 speed; +2 ammo; the magic resistance of the passive should go up to 22%. -150g
Steam Tank
immune to vigour and -200g
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1 · Disagree AgreeThats just the bare minimun, they r too costly, inaccurate, slow projectile speed, provides 0 utility to units nearby. They need a strong aura, a cheap cygor has a mapwide 50% miscast. They need somekind of magic support, like faster mana recharge, magic resist etc etc.
Tanks need immune to vigour, increase accuracy and projectile speed, back to where they were before. This random unneeded stealth nerfs just stupid, their steam cannon is totally unusable now, slow projectile, inaccurate, low dmg.
As ultimates of empire, these 2 bad units r never picked in high end, ever.
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0 · Disagree AgreeFrom the Forum Terms & Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
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2 · Disagree AgreeThe effects of fatigue are extreme on the Steamtank because it hurts pretty much all of the important stats MD, armor and speed (admitably it still has good armor at exhausted). The Steamtank is its own biggest threat and trying to squeeze any use out of it causes it to spiral into exhaustion quickly.
It's appalling, firing the cannon should not tax the Steamtank in the way that it does currently. Atm the Steamtank will exhaust itself by the time the enemy make sure it to your army just by shooting its cannon. This has been my experience with the steamtank.
I also have been completely unimpressed with the Steamtank's mêlée performance. It doesn't seem to really have an impact and in my experience it gets stuck fighting basic infantry units without dealing noticeable damage.
And honestly, I don't even notice the steam gun anymore.
you can buy a cannon/mortar, a griffin for your general and a unit of empire knights for 2400. That combination of units covers all of the utility of the Steamtank without the built in ranged/melee contradiction, the absolutely pitiful MD and fatigue death spiral.
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2 · Disagree AgreeAnyways, I agree about the cannon. The cannon on the Steamtank is extremely powerful. and i have been pleased with it. But IMO your not going to retrieve any more value by sitting around and firing the cannon than you could with 2x cannons or a hammer of witches and at the start of the game where the cannon will fire most of its good shots before allies block shots, the mobility of then steamtank doesn't give it a noticeable advantage. Good, but it does not justify the issues the unit has.
+MD is whatever to me. It's nice but it is not helping the Steamtank pay itself off. The enemy will just do what they keep doing to me which is kill the smaller, rest of my army and then kill the exhausted Steamtank when they want to.
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1 · Disagree AgreeSo fear and terror were in fact the safest way to route them.
Fear and terror are supposed to be their counter.
They only need a small leadership buff plus 2 or 3.
Medieval II is still the best Total War.
Damnatio memoriae to Arcade Mode
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0 · Disagree AgreeThe other day BBB mMm beat me using a lot of them.
In fact that was my first defeat as HE and De fighting the empire.
An when i told him that people in the forums still want more buffs to this unit he didnt understand it.
He only said that maybe an small ammo buff was needed. And that in general they are fine.
Medieval II is still the best Total War.
Damnatio memoriae to Arcade Mode
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0 · Disagree AgreeI mean... Pistoliers are not even able to take 40% HP of Goblin Wolf Riders. Their melee performance is really really bad.
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1 · Disagree AgreeBut adding immune to vigour would be good also, btw the fatigue loss bug needs to be fixed.
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0 · Disagree Agreeif you lose to pistoliers = entirely your fault
what's next? people losing to luminark = luminark OP?
steam tank is garbage compared to warhammer 1, not totally awful, but garbage
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4 · Disagree AgreeEdit: Btw, I still think that giving Handgunners 2x damage per bullet, 2x reload speed(thus leaving DPS the same) while decreasing ammo by 40%(so better total damage than before, but not by a lot) would be pretty cool and it would give them interesting faction flavor. Devastating volleys, but long reload, this would make them way better at "fire, retreat, fire" tactic. Also first volley before lines meet would be way more impactful.
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0 · Disagree Agree