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Dark elves vs Lizardmen - can't quite get there - help pls

ArrowmakerArrowmaker Junior MemberAustraliaRegistered Users Posts: 180
Hi all,

I am not normally a dark elves player but they have an interesting roster and so I have tried a custom battle against Lizardmen. I am writing this post to find out if you also struggle with this battle?

Lizardmen are strong and I am NOT calling for nerfing them. Instead I just want to know if this is a common experience.

I choose Malakth on a dragon, units of spears and archers, a hydra, some cav, assasins and another hero. The Lizardmen have Mazdamundi, many skinks, some cav and stegadon and Bastiladon.

Invariably I do well until the stegadon in particular and the bastiladon get stuck into my troops, whether they rampage or not, they do dmg and cause a rout. Even when I reform it's usually too late.

So what about you? What's your experience? Thanks :)

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Comments

  • saberslash117saberslash117 Registered Users Posts: 200
    edited January 12
    Black Guard.....nuff said...But really though, your main concern is monsters then here is a way to beat them.


    Have a cheap line of Swords or Spears to hold back the Saurus. They are not meant to kill but to hold. Then have a mininum of two Black Guards as a second line. They are meant to intercept and kill monsters if they break through the first line. Third, have atleast 3 crossbow units. They melt monsters so use them to kill the monsters before they do dmg. Then, have atleast 2 Witch Elves.....why you may ask? Because their ability to berserk units means that IF these monsters try to go for your crossbows, they will instead go on a rampage and will not be able to be given orderes. Then, use Malekith on his dragon to not only go down and hunt monsters but also use his spells to drain and kill the Saurus. Any spare money you may have, you should either get more Black Guards or an extra unit of Crossbows or even a Dragon....

    Again this setup is mainly to kill monster heavy armies. Most likely, the army would have few actually frontline units so it should work out well...
  • LordTorquemadoLordTorquemado Registered Users Posts: 706
    Focus your Darkshards in the Bastiladon and Stegadon, and any other big dinno who dares to face the might of the Druchii. Use Malekith's breath to crush the elite units of them, like Temple Guards, and send Malekith to kill Mazdamundi in 1vs1 while avoiding the skinks' fire. Use your Cold One Knights to charge against their cav. Never use Dark Riders, they are not worthy of their price.

    Once you have killed their big dinnos they are done, use your darkshards to kill their units (first big ones like Kroxigors or Cav), while using your magic to kill their units wherever they gather.
    "You stumble about in darkness. There is no light here, no mercy. Naggarond has claimed the souls of better heroes than you."
  • ArrowmakerArrowmaker Junior Member AustraliaRegistered Users Posts: 180
    Excellent responses - great tips people!

    Mazdamundi does spam spells, as LordTorquemado says, he should be a priority for Malakth then turn him back to take on the dinnos or instead use Malakth's spells to weaken the dinnos then attack Mazdamundi?
    image
  • onchristieroadonchristieroad Registered Users Posts: 44
    edited January 12
    Separate out your darkshards, if you can't stop the monsters breaking through, they can't attack all of your ranged at once without the others focus during on it. When going up against it with anti large melee: have a nice blocky unit. Don't have a thin line.
    Edited to make sense
    Post edited by onchristieroad on
  • Wargol5Wargol5 Registered Users Posts: 863
    Nobody beat the lizards, so just abandon gracefully. It's less painful :smile:
  • ZerglesZergles Member Registered Users Posts: 2,240
    edited January 13
    Cut the hydra. You don't need it. It will get beat in melee by almost all the LM dinos and the breath attacks aren't worth it.

    Get some black guard instead.

    Dark riders with crossbows can do good.

    Reaper bolt thrower can do good. (Especially against AI)

    Witch Elves can make key units rampage, and you can then charge cav into them or use magic. (Sicking them onto hero units or the lords is pretty great, if you get the chance. They are also good at stopping cav)

    What else...

    Corsairs make really quick work of Skinks and put a dent in Saurus.

  • Total War ftwTotal War ftw Member Registered Users Posts: 761

    Black Guard.....nuff said...But really though, your main concern is monsters then here is a way to beat them.


    Have a cheap line of Swords or Spears to hold back the Saurus. They are not meant to kill but to hold. Then have a mininum of two Black Guards as a second line. They are meant to intercept and kill monsters if they break through the first line. Third, have atleast 3 crossbow units. They melt monsters so use them to kill the monsters before they do dmg. Then, have atleast 2 Witch Elves.....why you may ask? Because their ability to berserk units means that IF these monsters try to go for your crossbows, they will instead go on a rampage and will not be able to be given orderes. Then, use Malekith on his dragon to not only go down and hunt monsters but also use his spells to drain and kill the Saurus. Any spare money you may have, you should either get more Black Guards or an extra unit of Crossbows or even a Dragon....

    Again this setup is mainly to kill monster heavy armies. Most likely, the army would have few actually frontline units so it should work out well...



    I didn't quite catch what you meant about the witch elves. How are they effective in this comp??
  • ZerglesZergles Member Registered Users Posts: 2,240

    Black Guard.....nuff said...But really though, your main concern is monsters then here is a way to beat them.


    Have a cheap line of Swords or Spears to hold back the Saurus. They are not meant to kill but to hold. Then have a mininum of two Black Guards as a second line. They are meant to intercept and kill monsters if they break through the first line. Third, have atleast 3 crossbow units. They melt monsters so use them to kill the monsters before they do dmg. Then, have atleast 2 Witch Elves.....why you may ask? Because their ability to berserk units means that IF these monsters try to go for your crossbows, they will instead go on a rampage and will not be able to be given orderes. Then, use Malekith on his dragon to not only go down and hunt monsters but also use his spells to drain and kill the Saurus. Any spare money you may have, you should either get more Black Guards or an extra unit of Crossbows or even a Dragon....

    Again this setup is mainly to kill monster heavy armies. Most likely, the army would have few actually frontline units so it should work out well...



    I didn't quite catch what you meant about the witch elves. How are they effective in this comp??


    Witch Elves cause units to rampage.

    If you get them to attack say...a Stegadon, they will cause it to rampage and fight them. Effectively stunning them.

    So your ranged units, or anti-large units can catch them and deal damage.

  • Total War ftwTotal War ftw Member Registered Users Posts: 761
    Zergles said:

    Black Guard.....nuff said...But really though, your main concern is monsters then here is a way to beat them.


    Have a cheap line of Swords or Spears to hold back the Saurus. They are not meant to kill but to hold. Then have a mininum of two Black Guards as a second line. They are meant to intercept and kill monsters if they break through the first line. Third, have atleast 3 crossbow units. They melt monsters so use them to kill the monsters before they do dmg. Then, have atleast 2 Witch Elves.....why you may ask? Because their ability to berserk units means that IF these monsters try to go for your crossbows, they will instead go on a rampage and will not be able to be given orderes. Then, use Malekith on his dragon to not only go down and hunt monsters but also use his spells to drain and kill the Saurus. Any spare money you may have, you should either get more Black Guards or an extra unit of Crossbows or even a Dragon....

    Again this setup is mainly to kill monster heavy armies. Most likely, the army would have few actually frontline units so it should work out well...



    I didn't quite catch what you meant about the witch elves. How are they effective in this comp??


    Witch Elves cause units to rampage.

    If you get them to attack say...a Stegadon, they will cause it to rampage and fight them. Effectively stunning them.

    So your ranged units, or anti-large units can catch them and deal damage.

    Oh right ya I forgot they cause rampage. Do the Dino's take more damage while rampaging or are they just uncontrollable?
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 5,926
    Focused fire from Darkshards will melt any heavily armoured monster. Against LM it's really about holding the line while your deadly ranged does the damage. Saurus will munch through your troops, their monsters will punch through them, but your crossbow bolts and black guards will take out their monsters. leaving the infantry an easy target for cross fire.
    Things that must be known:
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    • The Ogres are going to eat your faction, and its throne.
  • ZerglesZergles Member Registered Users Posts: 2,240

    Zergles said:

    Black Guard.....nuff said...But really though, your main concern is monsters then here is a way to beat them.


    Have a cheap line of Swords or Spears to hold back the Saurus. They are not meant to kill but to hold. Then have a mininum of two Black Guards as a second line. They are meant to intercept and kill monsters if they break through the first line. Third, have atleast 3 crossbow units. They melt monsters so use them to kill the monsters before they do dmg. Then, have atleast 2 Witch Elves.....why you may ask? Because their ability to berserk units means that IF these monsters try to go for your crossbows, they will instead go on a rampage and will not be able to be given orderes. Then, use Malekith on his dragon to not only go down and hunt monsters but also use his spells to drain and kill the Saurus. Any spare money you may have, you should either get more Black Guards or an extra unit of Crossbows or even a Dragon....

    Again this setup is mainly to kill monster heavy armies. Most likely, the army would have few actually frontline units so it should work out well...



    I didn't quite catch what you meant about the witch elves. How are they effective in this comp??


    Witch Elves cause units to rampage.

    If you get them to attack say...a Stegadon, they will cause it to rampage and fight them. Effectively stunning them.

    So your ranged units, or anti-large units can catch them and deal damage.

    Oh right ya I forgot they cause rampage. Do the Dino's take more damage while rampaging or are they just uncontrollable?


    Just uncontrollable. But they will only fight the Witch Elves until they route, or kill the Witch Elves. So they are stuck in one spot for quite a bit.
  • RazmirthRazmirth Registered Users Posts: 787
    And has been said, you need anti large vs Lizardmen. ESPECIALLY against them.

    I found a couple bolt throwers with armour piercing bolts can chip away at the start, and then black guard. Always have one on each flank, and one in then middle. That way you can be ready to handle Dino’s and Calvary anywhere.

    And you wanna bring a few extra black guard as well. Don’t even bother with shielded troops. My stack vs lizards was;

    Malekith on dragon
    Assassin for powerful Melee lords or heroes
    5 black guard
    3 executioners
    5 shades
    2 bolt throwers
    2 hydras
    1 dragon

    Dragons and hydras were a good detterant for the flanks, and they could usually hold down a flank with black guard backing them up just fine. Make sure after your bolt Throwers fire into their dinos for a bit, switch to mass bolts for infantry (or keep heavy bolts if they bring temple guards or lots of Calvary). Once your force engages, use shades to focus down any flying units which will harass your war machines. Make sure you take shades with great weapons. Nasty surprise for any infantry/even Calvary thinking they will be an easy target

    Good luck! Focus down those dinos and Calvary. Then use your strong flankers/magic to hit the rear of the saurus engaged with your Melee line. Executioners should make short work of anything they can throw at you.
  • seienchinseienchin Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,553
    Witch elves are too expensive for me.

    I would go mainly with darkshards, 1 bolt thrower and spearmen backed by black guards.
    To battle his skinks how about chariots? They shred infantry.
  • KranoxKranox Registered Users Posts: 1,639
    The matchup is actually on the tought side not for Dark Elves, but for Lizardmen, DE have everything needed to beat the LM, they have AP missiles wich destroys monsters, they have incredible infantry like the BG that shreds anything LM have.

  • SherrabSherrab Registered Users Posts: 82
    everything here is quackery. all you need is darkshards and black guard. a core units with arcing ap and point and click them at large units. skillful stuff.
  • RazmirthRazmirth Registered Users Posts: 787
    seienchin said:

    Witch elves are too expensive for me.

    I would go mainly with darkshards, 1 bolt thrower and spearmen backed by black guards.
    To battle his skinks how about chariots? They shred infantry.

    I can’t stand witch elves. I find them situational and for all the damage they do, they lose just as much. I prefer to take another unit of executioners.
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