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Make us have to move an agent to a diplomacy contact.

tfwoods3tfwoods3 Posts: 389Registered Users
In RTK by KOEI it was a big deal who you sent to do negotiations with other factions. It would be nice if your agents played a role like this in that you sent your agent to deal with them and you can only communicate when the agent is there in the other Provence.

Comments

  • dreagondreagon Senior Member Posts: 1,281Registered Users
    I'd much rather have they keep the current system. The diplomacy in these games is terrible, at least make it more convenient.
    My Total War wishlist:

    1: Reformation: Total War
    2: Victoria: Total War
    3: Dark Age: Total War
  • LestaTLestaT Senior Member Posts: 2,758Registered Users
    tfwoods3 said:

    In RTK by KOEI it was a big deal who you sent to do negotiations with other factions. It would be nice if your agents played a role like this in that you sent your agent to deal with them and you can only communicate when the agent is there in the other Provence.

    No.
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Posts: 565Registered Users
    In previous total war titles you had such a system. It got annoying because you often forgot about them and the current diplomacy is a little primitive.

    But if diplomacy would become more in-depth it could be a nice future. Also assasinating you’re high ranking advisaries diplomat could be very rewarding. A throne room like in shogun 1 would be great where you as a ruler would have different options to deal with diplomats. Behading was one of them as I recall.
  • MattzoMattzo Member United KingdomPosts: 1,432Registered Users
    This used to be a feature. It was dropped, for the very good reason that it was exceedingly annoying.
    "Everything in war is simple. But the simplest thing is difficult."
  • Ashbery76Ashbery76 Senior Member Posts: 587Registered Users
    Wow people actually think that was better,lol.No thanks.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 9,505Registered Users
    I'd rather eat the testacles off a leper.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • NerdfishNerdfish Senior Member Posts: 243Registered Users
    edited January 14
    How about making it an option.
    For every diplomat you have within someone's capital, you gain a bonus to your diplomatic deals.
    So you can perform diplomacy as they are now, but if you have residing diplomats, you may squeeze out a few gold per month with each of your deals and that can add up quickly. There should be a diminishing return of course, you can't make someone give you their capital for a chamberpot by sending an army of diplomats.
    They can also double as merchants.
  • RandomTagRandomTag Posts: 1,474Registered Users
    There was no resident diplomatic corps at that time, only emissaries dispatched on specific missions. If the diplomatic system in TW is not as shallow and bare bone as it is now, OP's suggestion would be much useful. Say, sending Zhang Fei as ambassador to Sun Quan would certainly screw everything up to the moon, but Zhuge Liang as ambassador made wonders. However, what do we have in current TW setup? Just a list of demands and offers. You want Sun Quan to ally with you and attack Cao Cao? 20K gold pieces or no deal. What Zhuge Liang did IRL 舌戰群儒,激將法 cannot be emulated at all, so why bother improving the cosmetics when the core mechanic remains bare and broken?
  • RandomTagRandomTag Posts: 1,474Registered Users
    edited January 14
    oops...double post
  • irurobinirurobin Posts: 1,826Registered Users
    edited January 14
    @RandomTag

    Sending Zhang Fei might end up well though. :p After all he is an artist and he respects the wise.
    Sending Guan Yu to negotiate with Sun Quan will definitely screw things up. They hate each other. >:)

    I love the mini games of debating in diplomacy mission in Koei RTK 10 & 11. hahaha
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 13,337Registered Users
    No. This should never return.

    At max you should get the "emissary" feature from Rome2 Powers and Politics by which you can send statesmen to improve relationships between factions.

  • takilung31takilung31 Posts: 353Registered Users
    I am not going to lie its annoying as hell for that system.

    Though the op is right, they would send a person to other countries to negotiate and form an alliance.

    Look Zhuge Liang, he suggested to Liu Bei to send himself onto Wu to formed an Alliance with them which leads to the battle of Chibi vs Cao Cao's forces
  • united84united84 Posts: 199Registered Users
    RandomTag said:

    There was no resident diplomatic corps at that time, only emissaries dispatched on specific missions. If the diplomatic system in TW is not as shallow and bare bone as it is now, OP's suggestion would be much useful. Say, sending Zhang Fei as ambassador to Sun Quan would certainly screw everything up to the moon, but Zhuge Liang as ambassador made wonders. However, what do we have in current TW setup? Just a list of demands and offers. You want Sun Quan to ally with you and attack Cao Cao? 20K gold pieces or no deal. What Zhuge Liang did IRL 舌戰群儒,激將法 cannot be emulated at all, so why bother improving the cosmetics when the core mechanic remains bare and broken?

    This is interesting.

    I hope there's an overhaul to the diplomacy as well.

    They need to make it unique to TW3K and not Rome 2.
  • NerdfishNerdfish Senior Member Posts: 243Registered Users
    RandomTag said:

    There was no resident diplomatic corps at that time, only emissaries dispatched on specific missions. If the diplomatic system in TW is not as shallow and bare bone as it is now, OP's suggestion would be much useful. Say, sending Zhang Fei as ambassador to Sun Quan would certainly screw everything up to the moon, but Zhuge Liang as ambassador made wonders. However, what do we have in current TW setup? Just a list of demands and offers. You want Sun Quan to ally with you and attack Cao Cao? 20K gold pieces or no deal. What Zhuge Liang did IRL 舌戰群儒,激將法 cannot be emulated at all, so why bother improving the cosmetics when the core mechanic remains bare and broken?

    It could work if you can initialize negotiations through agents, who would apply a diplomacy skill modifier to the deal. Say maybe Zhuge Lian would reduce the cost from 20K to 15K in your example ?
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Posts: 565Registered Users
    RandomTag said:

    There was no resident diplomatic corps at that time, only emissaries dispatched on specific missions. If the diplomatic system in TW is not as shallow and bare bone as it is now, OP's suggestion would be much useful. Say, sending Zhang Fei as ambassador to Sun Quan would certainly screw everything up to the moon, but Zhuge Liang as ambassador made wonders. However, what do we have in current TW setup? Just a list of demands and offers. You want Sun Quan to ally with you and attack Cao Cao? 20K gold pieces or no deal. What Zhuge Liang did IRL 舌戰群儒,激將法 cannot be emulated at all, so why bother improving the cosmetics when the core mechanic remains bare and broken?

    Indeed. If they finally would improve the diplomacy part of the game it could be a nice addition. Otherwise don't bother.
  • LESAMALESAMA Member Posts: 565Registered Users
    RandomTag said:

    There was no resident diplomatic corps at that time, only emissaries dispatched on specific missions. If the diplomatic system in TW is not as shallow and bare bone as it is now, OP's suggestion would be much useful. Say, sending Zhang Fei as ambassador to Sun Quan would certainly screw everything up to the moon, but Zhuge Liang as ambassador made wonders. However, what do we have in current TW setup? Just a list of demands and offers. You want Sun Quan to ally with you and attack Cao Cao? 20K gold pieces or no deal. What Zhuge Liang did IRL 舌戰群儒,激將法 cannot be emulated at all, so why bother improving the cosmetics when the core mechanic remains bare and broken?

    Indeed. If they finally would improve
  • Warlord_Lu_BuWarlord_Lu_Bu Posts: 747Registered Users
    RandomTag said:

    There was no resident diplomatic corps at that time, only emissaries dispatched on specific missions. If the diplomatic system in TW is not as shallow and bare bone as it is now, OP's suggestion would be much useful. Say, sending Zhang Fei as ambassador to Sun Quan would certainly screw everything up to the moon, but Zhuge Liang as ambassador made wonders. However, what do we have in current TW setup? Just a list of demands and offers. You want Sun Quan to ally with you and attack Cao Cao? 20K gold pieces or no deal. What Zhuge Liang did IRL 舌戰群儒,激將法 cannot be emulated at all, so why bother improving the cosmetics when the core mechanic remains bare and broken?


    Spot on.

    If they changed the diplomacy a little, similarly to how ROTK did it, by requesting one of your subordinates to Persuade another faction into treating with you such as trade agreements or alliances, that would be epic. The higher diplomacy or intelligence your chosen subordinate has, the higher chance of success. I don't like the idea of moving characters alllllllllllll the way over just to chat like in Rome or Medieval TW... but say for example... you send Guan Yu (a military general) to make diplomacy with another faction, you end turn.. he magically appears in their court when it's your turn again and then you can make demands/offers.

    I'd also like it if we could kidnap people again :D like if we chose to vassalize another faction, they have to give us one of there sons/daughters or court officials to die if they betray the contract.
    "I am the punishment of Tengri, if you had not sinned, he would not have sent me against you." - Chenghis Khan
  • RandomTagRandomTag Posts: 1,474Registered Users
    Nerdfish said:



    It could work if you can initialize negotiations through agents, who would apply a diplomacy skill modifier to the deal. Say maybe Zhuge Lian would reduce the cost from 20K to 15K in your example ?

    Zhuge Liang offered essentially NOTHING and get the deal done, that's the point here.

    So let's review the substance of the agreement:
    1. Liu Bei's forces will join Sun Quan as military allies in battle against Cao Cao. This is not an offer at all, but the very purpose and obligation of this alliance.
    2. Sun Quan get any land occupied by his forces in Jing Province 荊州 after Cao Cao is defeated. Since Liu Bei was again landless after his boss surrendered to Cao Cao, he didn't hold a single inch of the land he promised to cede, and, of course, Liu Bei is plotting to make a landgrab himself! :D

    So how did Zhuge Liang pull this off? He managed to convince Sun Quan that if this term is rejected, Sun Quan would lose EVERYTHING: his army, his navy, his court, his power as sovereign, his ancestral home base built by the toil and blood of his father 孫堅 and brother 孫策 , all the luxury, prestige and, perhaps, his own head! Especially considering that Zhuge Liang's own boss Liu Bei, though driven off from his land and recently defeated, adamantly refuse to surrender to that obnoxious and treacherous puppet master, what would the public and posterity view Sun Quan if he gave up without a fight, even though he has an intact army, the best navy and vast territory and revenue under his control? Unsurprisingly, Sun Quan's reply is just as Zhuge Liang planned :D : Hell no! WAR it is!!!
  • JudeTakerathJudeTakerath Posts: 70Registered Users
    edited January 14
    Zhuge Liang's role in forming that alliance is more then a tad overplayed compared to the historical events. Not that, bar one mishap, he didn't do a good job but he was no Jian Yong but like all diplomacy, it depends what you can offer and what the mutual interests are.

    3kingdom diplomacy relied on existing ties (Cao Cao and Yuan Shao were old friends so they remained allies for some time for example), whose claims you supported "oh yeah this guy is so totally the legitimate governor of such and such" or petitioning court to give rank to said ally, or sending a scholar over. So having to send an agent would be historically accurate but they might want to have a quicker system for gameplay.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 13,337Registered Users

    I am not going to lie its annoying as hell for that system.

    Though the op is right, they would send a person to other countries to negotiate and form an alliance.

    Look Zhuge Liang, he suggested to Liu Bei to send himself onto Wu to formed an Alliance with them which leads to the battle of Chibi vs Cao Cao's forces

    And as I said, this was already implemented as a mechanic in the last Rome2 patch! You can send a character from your faction as an emissary to another faction to improve relations. So I think you can expect that to make a comeback in TW3K.

  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 15,855Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    edited January 15
    I'm still wavering between having actual agents and not having them, going with along the current trend of screen diplomacy. I personally believe a physical representative should be there but taking the equivalent of 5 to 20 years on the campaign map to get them somewhere is just not a hot cup of tea.

    Agents, in general over the last few game where they were present, have had very spotted success in making the game better. Right now I believe an alternative to what we've had to go though before in earlier games needs to go away.

    If the experience can be made better than bring them in. Until then, I'd rather not have them, and do the diplomacy interchange by screen popup.
    Post edited by dge1 on
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  • LestaTLestaT Senior Member Posts: 2,758Registered Users

    No. This should never return.

    At max you should get the "emissary" feature from Rome2 Powers and Politics by which you can send statesmen to improve relationships between factions.

    Agreed.

    I would love that feature be included but expanded.

    First send a diplomat like the P&P feature. Then the usual diplomatic options available where chances will be based on who you send out.
  • NerdfishNerdfish Senior Member Posts: 243Registered Users
    dge1 said:

    I'm still wavering between having actual agents and not having them, going with along the current trend of screen diplomacy. I personally believe a physical representative should be there but taking the equivalent of 5 to 20 years on the campaign map to get them somewhere is just not a hot cup of tea.

    Agents, in general over the last few game where they were present, have had very spotted success in making the game better. Right now I believe an alternative to what we've had to go though before in earlier games needs to go away.

    If the experience can be made better than bring them in. Until then, I'd rather not have them, and do the diplomacy interchange by screen popup.

    It could return as an option, so you have best of the both worlds. You can try to negotiate a deal right-away using the screen, and maybe get a better deal later using an agent. the more choice the better.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Posts: 692Registered Users
    LestaT said:

    No. This should never return.

    At max you should get the "emissary" feature from Rome2 Powers and Politics by which you can send statesmen to improve relationships between factions.

    Agreed.

    I would love that feature be included but expanded.

    First send a diplomat like the P&P feature. Then the usual diplomatic options available where chances will be based on who you send out.
    Fully on-board with that idea.
  • tfwoods3tfwoods3 Posts: 389Registered Users
    edited January 15
    Just make it so if, on your turn, you want to send your agent to do diplomacy, there is a quick animation of him traveling by horse and he is there. But the agent is standing there in their province. Basically a teleport. This can only be done once per tern, or once they engage in diplomacy their movement ends.

    In this way agents have vastly faster movement than before, but once they attach to an army, they have to move at the much slower speed of the army.

    The longer they are there, the higher the bonus gets.

  • mu119mu119 Junior Member Posts: 7Registered Users
    I like the the idea of an actual emissaries to negotiate, since diplomacy has a huge role in Chinese history and they worked from time to time. But that said, if nothing is done to update or revamp the total war diplomacy system, it is useless to think any of this, since the diplomacy system outright sucks.
  • sbofchinasbofchina Posts: 106Registered Users
    edited January 16
    I approve that you can transform a roll from general to agent or otherwise.

    Like Nobunaga 13-14, you can let a princess be as a general or just a princess for political marriage.
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