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FORGONE CONCLUSION MECHANIC NEEDS TO BE REMOVED

BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Posts: 367Registered Users
I have just finished a battle in which the forgone conclusions mechanic almost cost me the game. My entire army apart from Boris on his griffon mount had been routed and i had just killed the enemy skaven lord when the UI for Boris had dissappeared. This was especially frustrating as my Deadly onslaught and foe seeker abilities had just finished recharging and i was about to activate them. Apparantly the AI in this game is so omnipotent that it had come to the conslusion that my Boris Griffon Lord at 80% health stood no chance against 5 units of mixed sakven infatry at half health and unit capacity and a 40% health doomwheel.
I had to fight the remainder of the battle which was at its most critical stage basically fighting against this stupid game and the enemy player because the game believed that there was no conceivable way for me to win the battle, yet by dragging the enemy infantry out into the shallow water and a few cycle charges was enough to win the battle from "certain defeat" to fully routing the enemy. The whole battle could've gone a lot smoother at the end if i had access to my llords abilities and the game hadn't locked me out of them because the piece of **** AI in this game thought it "knew better". Hell, even the other player was asking me to just quit the battle because he believed there was no way for m,e to win the fight, and yet i did anyway.
The FORGONE CONCLUSION m,mechanic has got to be the WORST mechanic i have ever witnessed in a RTS game and should be removed immediately. It should not be left to the AI to decide when a battle is unwinnable when there are two human players vs eachother and human error and stupid decisions by an opponent late game looking to hastedly finish the battle cannot be accounted for by the AI when determining the overall outcome of a battle.

REMOVE THE FORGONE CONCLUSION MEHCANIC CA
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Comments

  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Posts: 3,606Registered Users
    Am I the only one who has no idea what this thread is about?
    i5-3550 CPU @ 3.30GHz
    Geforce gtx 970
    16gb ram

    Team Skaven
  • thorntk421thorntk421 Posts: 38Registered Users
    edited January 2018
    I think he's mad that his lord routed off the map. That's what happens during a rout /shrug. Boris failed his leadership tests enough to run away. It's a sound mechanic.
  • A_MushroomA_Mushroom Posts: 278Registered Users
    How did you get Boris on his griffon? I don't have that :(
  • PappyTronPappyTron Posts: 903Registered Users

    "We’ve been playtesting the **** out of every one of the 35 factions on all the difficulty settings"
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Posts: 16,195Registered Users
    I've no idea what "foregone conclusion" means to the OP, and it certainly doesn't help that the closest he gets to describing it is through ranting.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Posts: 367Registered Users

    I think he's mad that his lord routed off the map. That's what happens during a rout /shrug. Boris failed his leadership tests enough to run away. It's a sound mechanic.

    Are you dyslexic. My lord didnt rout, i won the battle. The UI that has the lords abilities in it that you have to interact with dissappeared because the game thought it impossible for me to win even though it wasnt, thus putting me at a significant disadvantage compared to my opponent.
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Posts: 367Registered Users
    daelin4 said:

    I've no idea what "foregone conclusion" means to the OP, and it certainly doesn't help that the closest he gets to describing it is through ranting.

    Then you need to do some research into it. Its in the game. Basically when your opponent has such a high advantage over you such as through a mass rout the UI dissapeaers for you meaning you cannot interact with your units cards or activate any lord or heroes abilities. The fact is however that in some battles your lord may be unbreakable and fight on, and you can issue them orders by clicking on them however their portrait and ability list is unavailable.
  • AxelradAxelrad Senior Member Posts: 629Registered Users
    edited January 2018
    BRiiTASH2 said:

    I think he's mad that his lord routed off the map. That's what happens during a rout /shrug. Boris failed his leadership tests enough to run away. It's a sound mechanic.

    Are you dyslexic. My lord didnt rout, i won the battle. The UI that has the lords abilities in it that you have to interact with dissappeared because the game thought it impossible for me to win even though it wasnt, thus putting me at a significant disadvantage compared to my opponent.
    I'm not aware of this being a mechanic at all - sounds more like a bug you encountered. I've certainly never seen it. Or possibly you accidentally hid the UI during the battle? I believe the default button for this is "K".

    Also it's very difficult to tell what exactly happened in your OP because it's just a giant wall of indecipherable text. You might want to consider reformatting it to be more of a narrative, with paragraph breaks at the major events, instead of the run-on rant it currently is.
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Posts: 367Registered Users

    How did you get Boris on his griffon? I don't have that :(

    Its available as one of his mounts under his mount option.
  • coury97coury97 Junior Member Posts: 607Registered Users
    edited January 2018
    I never had this before, though i have never been in a situation like that. That's bad, they should take it out.
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Posts: 16,195Registered Users
    BRiiTASH2 said:

    daelin4 said:

    I've no idea what "foregone conclusion" means to the OP, and it certainly doesn't help that the closest he gets to describing it is through ranting.

    Then you need to do some research into it. Its in the game. Basically when your opponent has such a high advantage over you such as through a mass rout the UI dissapeaers for you meaning you cannot interact with your units cards or activate any lord or heroes abilities. The fact is however that in some battles your lord may be unbreakable and fight on, and you can issue them orders by clicking on them however their portrait and ability list is unavailable.
    No, you need to just explain it better. Sounds like a bug where the UI disappears when it shouldn't. Even your post indicates that, once you sift through all the bitterness.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 9,989Registered Users
    You people are dense sometimes. He's obviously talking about the army losses penalty.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 12,748Registered Users, Moderators
    Is this a Multiplayer thing? That might explain the confusion.
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  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,629Registered Users

    You people are dense sometimes. He's obviously talking about the army losses penalty.

    Then he should call it that, learn to use paragraphs and not offer muddled stream-of-consciousness writing. Any idea worth stating is an idea worth stating clearly.

    BTW, OP is also someone who thinks Boris Todbringer (the strongest Empire LL right now) is weak and needs buffs so I guess this is a pure scrubby salt thread.

  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Posts: 3,606Registered Users
    edited January 2018
    Sounds like you pressed the 'K' of your keyboard and hid the UI. There is no such mechanics in the game.

    Sure you'll lose due to army losses which is a fair and good mechanic, but UI disappearing while you still have units is either a bug or a mistake on your part.
    i5-3550 CPU @ 3.30GHz
    Geforce gtx 970
    16gb ram

    Team Skaven
  • IntertriarriiaeIntertriarriiae Posts: 385Registered Users
    I think you just pressed K.

    Losing a battle doesn't remove your ui, that would be stupid.
    Just tossing in my 2 heresies every once in a while.
  • AxikusAxikus Junior Member Posts: 775Registered Users
    Foregone Conclusion Mechanic.
    My **** sides.
  • Patrickfinzi0904Patrickfinzi0904 Posts: 383Registered Users
    OP needs to "git gud"
  • KrilralKrilral Member Posts: 910Registered Users
    I think a lot of people responding to this haven't actually read the OP's post. He is not complaining that he lost a battle; he actually won the battle. He's complaining that his UI disappeared. That being said, I think you (OP) probably just experienced a bug or pressed K, like others have said. I have certainly never seen this mechanic you speak of (though I only play singleplayer).
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Posts: 367Registered Users

    You people are dense sometimes. He's obviously talking about the army losses penalty.

    Then he should call it that, learn to use paragraphs and not offer muddled stream-of-consciousness writing. Any idea worth stating is an idea worth stating clearly.

    BTW, OP is also someone who thinks Boris Todbringer (the strongest Empire LL right now) is weak and needs buffs so I guess this is a pure scrubby salt thread.
    Karl Franz now does 490 damage on deathclaw with 56 melee attack, 100 armour, 90 charge bonus, 80 leadership and an extra 24 leadership available through abilities for if he starts to waver but Boris is the most OP General yeah ok.
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Posts: 367Registered Users
    Krilral said:

    I think a lot of people responding to this haven't actually read the OP's post. He is not complaining that he lost a battle; he actually won the battle. He's complaining that his UI disappeared. That being said, I think you (OP) probably just experienced a bug or pressed K, like others have said. I have certainly never seen this mechanic you speak of (though I only play singleplayer).

    It isnt K, trust me ive tried. The AI assumes that during the mass rout your lords run away too but that isnt the case.
  • GrayFoxCZGrayFoxCZ Junior Member Posts: 71Registered Users
    BRiiTASH2 said:

    You people are dense sometimes. He's obviously talking about the army losses penalty.

    Then he should call it that, learn to use paragraphs and not offer muddled stream-of-consciousness writing. Any idea worth stating is an idea worth stating clearly.

    BTW, OP is also someone who thinks Boris Todbringer (the strongest Empire LL right now) is weak and needs buffs so I guess this is a pure scrubby salt thread.
    Karl Franz now does 490 damage on deathclaw with 56 melee attack, 100 armour, 90 charge bonus, 80 leadership and an extra 24 leadership available through abilities for if he starts to waver but Boris is the most OP General yeah ok.
    franz and deathclaw cost mortgage though
  • RiddlebickRiddlebick Posts: 235Registered Users
    You mean shattered? When you can't come back from being routed? Then the unit card disappears.
    :#
  • Brigantius101Brigantius101 Posts: 111Registered Users

    You mean shattered? When you can't come back from being routed? Then the unit card disappears.

    I think that's what has happened his army got shattered due to losses despite making gains. Sounds like he put up a hell of a fight and gave the enemy as good as he got however in the end his army shattered first.

    That's the way it goes really, take care of your troops or find yourself without and army and your lord remembers he left the oven on at Home.
    Brigantius101, formerly known as The_Emperor over at the Org.

  • ShermanSherman Member Posts: 873Registered Users
    BRiiTASH2 said:

    I think he's mad that his lord routed off the map. That's what happens during a rout /shrug. Boris failed his leadership tests enough to run away. It's a sound mechanic.

    Are you dyslexic. My lord didnt rout, i won the battle. The UI that has the lords abilities in it that you have to interact with dissappeared because the game thought it impossible for me to win even though it wasnt, thus putting me at a significant disadvantage compared to my opponent.
    Something similar happened to me only in multiplayer but I thought was a bug.
  • LanancurasLanancuras Posts: 42Registered Users
    I think I have seen something similar in matches in which I only had unbreakable units remaining. It was especially noticeable during a H2H campaign in which I took over an AI Chaos Army under forced march and was wondering why my friend was bothering mopping up an army that was already guaranteed to be wiped out.
    Turns out, despite the User Interface disappearing like it usually does when you have been defeated my friend did not get the Victory message yet.

    It happened multiple times to both of us and mostly when Hellcannon crews were present but not yet fully wiped out after their cannon was destroyed so I'm very sure it is not due to just pressing K. That it would happen to someone who still has his Lord alive and well is very strange though,.
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Posts: 367Registered Users
    If it happens to me again i will upload a video of it.
  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Posts: 3,606Registered Users
    BRiiTASH2 said:

    If it happens to me again i will upload a video of it.

    Again, just to be clear, it's a bug, not a mechanic! or at least I'm assuming, your OP is very hard to understand.
    i5-3550 CPU @ 3.30GHz
    Geforce gtx 970
    16gb ram

    Team Skaven
  • MakoTheMakoMakoTheMako Posts: 1,246Registered Users
    If your unit cards disappear its because the unit shattered, and if your army shattered from army losses, there is no way you could have won, you cant control shattered units, so it's most likely you encountered a bug or hid your display by accident.

    die about it

  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 19,629Registered Users
    He lost all of his units save for his general while the enemy still had half a dozen left, including a Doomwheel. He's angry because the match was ended by the army losses penalty since he thinks he could have just cycle-charged all of the remaining Skaven units to death.

    Of course, if Boris on his griffon was the only unit left he would have been forced to the ground and facing enough Skaven plus a Doomwheel would have beaten you anyway, especially since this was an MP match with a player you can't just abuse like the AI.

    OP should just drop the saltshaker and git gud.

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