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Chinese community and Grand Cathay

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  • Erwin99Erwin99 Posts: 185Registered Users
    Surge_2 said:

    If we get the full Daemons list (1, not 4, I don't want a bunch of made up stuff.) And the full ogres list, and a full Chaos dwarves list, and a fully realized Chaos Warriors and Beastmen update.

    Then, and only then, should CA spend cycles on a made up army for Cathay.

    And at that point, make it DLC, so I don't have to install it.

    I definitely get that. I too would want Cathay in addition to full daemons, full chaos dwarfs, full ogres, and I guess chaos warriors although I imagine them in the capacity of part of the daemons roster with god-specific variants. To be fair though, you know CA is gonna hold back some of the rosters of the main 4 factions for the rivalry packs that come in each of the warhammer titles with additional lords and units.
  • KronusXKronusX Posts: 1,361Registered Users
    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,488Registered Users
    Erwin99 said:

    Crossil said:

    Erwin99 said:

    Crossil said:

    Erwin99 said:

    Crossil said:

    Erwin99 said:

    It amazes me how people are willing to settle for less content (no Cathay) "just because". It's as if they don't realize Warhammer 3 is gonna have a big chunk of it missing without Cathay, with only having Daemons, Chaos Dwarfs, Ogres, and blasted wasteland/mountains as a map. Kislev included as a good race would be cool, but having it as a main faction? Foolishness. There's 2 LLs max that they have, meaning there's no DLC potential there.

    Expanding all the way to Cathay opens up DLC potential not otherwise available between Kislev and the Mountains of Mourn, such as the Hobgoblin Khanate as well as having other Warhammer 1 and 2 races show up like Dark Elves who raid Cathay, as well as high elf colonies.

    There's SO much more variety if you include Cathay that I don't understand why people stick so doggedly to having just a tiny, uninteresting sliver of area such as the Darklands and Mountains of Mourn alone rather than as part of a larger map we can play on.

    There's also the Chinese market to take into account, which is something CA clearly is aware of considering the announcement of Three Kingdoms as a tentpole title, and on top of that for old Warhammer fans you can present something entirely fresh and new that's never been seen before to hype up Warhammer 3 with, rather than 4 (5 including Chaos Dwarfs) flavours of chaos and ogres. And Kislev too, who are always being besieged by Chaos and never have gone outside of their starting area, unlike other races like Cathay.

    Well Chaos is most popular aspect of Warhammer. 4 Chaos Gods duking it out with their own special armies would probably make them more happy then another human faction. We have Empire, Bretonnia, Norsca and WoC and will probably get Araby, Dogs of War and Kislev at that point. With DoC as one we'll need other races that CA will want to sell of which there's only Hobgoblin Khanate that's not human.

    4 Daemons or just even more humans. Since we get humans in all other games I'd prefer daemons in this one.
    Yes, but that's one demographic of Warhammer fans. CA could just make a proper singular Daemon faction like DoC were on tabletop with the addition of chaos god specific chaos warrior units and people would be happy. Also, again, China is a big market. Having something that appeals to them in the finale of the trilogy would be far more likely to boost sales than extra demons. Also, while Chaos may have been most popular with Warhammer fans, people were complaining that there weren't enough human factions in Warhammer 2 or that it wasn't worth being a standalone game due to worries over lack of content before release. If Warhammer 3 has mostly just daemon factions/evil or neutral factions and one human "good" faction that's a minor one like Kislev shoved into the left side of the map, there'd definitely be less content and variety than Warhammer 2, resulting in worse marketability and thus worse sales. Besides, CA isn't just trying to appeal to just hardcore Warhammer fans here, they're trying to appeal to the average fantasy fan or strategy game player who don't even know what Warhammer is or who only got into Warhammer with the the previous two games, meaning variety and breadth of content is key.
    I'm not sure. I'd say most of those who dislike the fantasy already jumped ship and the Chinese will get 3K so overlap would make Cathay harder to sell compared to that one. Though I hope for Albion I'd be surprised due to Thrones coming out.

    In my mind Cathay could only come as final DLC as a final salute to Warhammer. And even that is unlikely due to GW. CA is not in control. So 4 Chaos god armies can't be escaped in any way.
    Well, of course everyone who disliked Fantasy jumped ship. I didn't say they were marketing it to fans who swore off the series, they're marketing it to people who are "new" as in people new to Warhammer Fantasy who've bought the previous two total war games, and people who are on the fence, or straight up people who are new to strategy and who just enjoy Fantasy games. Also, I doubt having two Chinese-themes in two games (especially since Cathay is Chinese Fantasy while 3K is Chinese Historical, and Cathay would just be one faction) will cause oversaturation.

    I can't imagine something as huge as Cathay being DLC, especially since in past experience CA only makes faction DLC for areas already on the map. So if anything, it makes more sense to have the area of Kislev except placeholder and then have them a DLC and have Cathay as a main faction.

    I agree that 4 chaos factions are happening, but I think people overextend by saying it will ONLY be each gods units for that faction. I'm thinking it's more likely that there's 4 LLs, one for each god, and they each get reductions in upkeep and other bonuses for the units related to that god, but not outright stopping you from using other gods daemons for the sake of not restricting players.
    WE weren't on the map at start. You can expand map eastward later.

    And yeah CA is not in control here. With GW pushing god specific armies on TT, I'm just saying....

    As for those customers... most important ones are commited ones. Any newcomers will be taking up game 1 due to Empire and Bretonnia sooner then other two.

    China or not-China? Maybe not saturated but when given choice they'd prefer a popular history don't you think? Chinese who like fantasy are probably already in while those who are not will prefer 3K.
    The area the Wood Elves were on WAS there, though, but just inaccessible. All faction DLC has only ever expanded the areas already on the map, like in the case of Wood Elves, which reinforces my statement. Newcomers won't necessarily be buying game 1, if game 3 looks more fresh and interesting. The same thing happened with Warhammer 2 where people had it as their first Warhammer Total War game because they were interested in Elves who were two of the main factions and advertised heavily, or the other unique races they'd never seen in any other setting like Skaven.

    Also, considering that Chinese fans have been buying the Warhammer games a lot I don't see why they wouldn't choose to buy both. It essentially doubles CA's profits. There's always gonna be people in China who weren't interested in Warhammer because even if they like fantasy, it has nothing with a China equivalent, and once it's introduced they will be incentivized to drop cash on it.
    Already present landmass principle is there. Also a principle is that they only use units that already existed. Cathay? Not much of a program problem and ME is basically just extended game 1 campaign map so it isn't possible. Cathay assumes abandoning some principles so why not that one as well for a surprise?

    We'll just say we disagree on China market I guess. Given China equivalent versus China historical those who haven't bought fantasy will buy China historical, in my mind. No real proofs to give so a moot argument.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,488Registered Users
    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    That market is much smaller then you'd think as far as PC goes.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • KronusXKronusX Posts: 1,361Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    That market is much smaller then you'd think as far as PC goes.
    well according to https://newzoo.com/insights/infographics/infographic-the-chinese-games-market/

    We're looking at 129 million gamers , ofc those are MMO players so not all might be interested but those left aside, there is still a lot of untapped potential for revenue, as well as the western players that want Cathay.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,488Registered Users
    KronusX said:

    Crossil said:

    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    That market is much smaller then you'd think as far as PC goes.
    well according to https://newzoo.com/insights/infographics/infographic-the-chinese-games-market/

    We're looking at 129 million gamers , ofc those are MMO players so not all might be interested but those left aside, there is still a lot of untapped potential for revenue, as well as the western players that want Cathay.
    That's a very roundabout way of showing this. MMO and strategy hardly mix.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,133Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    That market is much smaller then you'd think as far as PC goes.
    And the number one PC language on Steam is now Simplified Chinese according to hardware and software data. The market is definitely there, but you can easily argue CA is already tapping into that with TW3K.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey?platform=combined
    Later
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,377Registered Users
    GalenHHH said:

    GalenHHH said:

    GalenHHH said:

    Red_Dox said:

    Ugh, another Cathay thread. I'm one of these people now.

    Cathay is the best choice for a core of game 3.

    If only they were partially on the map.
    So, you already KNOW the game#3 map? Please do leak it.


    Core races #3: Daemons, Chaos Dwarfs, OK and KISLEV! There, done and done.

    That's four for core. Missing Preorder as well as at least one race DLC and max. three ;)

    -------Red Dox
    Or you could split DoC to 4 and get 4 cores and keep the rest as DLC .Throw in some updates for game 1 and 2 races and voila game 3 ready .

    Edit- Also got to love the hypocrisy in some of the posters around here...
    4 Core Demon races would be bad for multiple reasons. You'd be splitting an awesome roster in 4 to make 4 mediocre races, variety would go down to zilch since they'd all be variations on the same thing and have similar playstyles, and you'd annoy TT Demon fans because you'd be splitting the roster in 4.

    Game 3 makes the most sense with 4 Core races; Ogres, Demons, Chaos Dwarves and Cathay.
    Ah, that sweet sweet hypocrisy...If CA invents units for DoC it will be bad and boring as you and others said in your other thread,but if CA invents a whole new race at the expense of allready existing factions its ok.
    Keep it up bro your arguments become better and better.
    There's no hypocrisy in my opinion.

    Cathay could have one of the best rosters ingame because it taps into Chinese mythology which no other faction uses. I'd love to see CA implement it.
    And what is next?Nippon and Ind?
    What's next for DLC races? We'll get a better idea of the DLC formula for game 3 once we know it for game 2.

    Remember, this is a Cathay discussion. Cathay could work as a DLC, but why have it as that? Remember Cathay's land would be very useful for Game 3, if they go that route they'd have to put a placeholder in, instead of that why not put a new good guy faction in? Given the races that are left, and where it's going to be located it's all lined up perfectly for Cathay to be in, CA just needs to pull the trigger.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,488Registered Users

    Crossil said:

    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    That market is much smaller then you'd think as far as PC goes.
    And the number one PC language on Steam is now Simplified Chinese according to hardware and software data. The market is definitely there, but you can easily argue CA is already tapping into that with TW3K.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey?platform=combined
    Interesting. TW3K is better for making an inroad definitely. Though I'd argue that would diminish the profits from Cathay it's hard to argue out of thin air.

    My main remainig question which I couldn't find info on is China policy on video games. They banned bloody HoI games because of politics, would introducing mythological creatures trigger them?
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • SudoKnightlyNonsenseSudoKnightlyNonsense Posts: 1,818Registered Users
    I really hope they don't do Cathay, they have next to no lore significance whatsoever: the most they did was sail an army west that got butchered by the Lizardmen. What will they do, add an entire map and faction based purely on speculation? They didn't even have TT models if I remember correctly.
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Posts: 5,337Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    That market is much smaller then you'd think as far as PC goes.
    And the number one PC language on Steam is now Simplified Chinese according to hardware and software data. The market is definitely there, but you can easily argue CA is already tapping into that with TW3K.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey?platform=combined
    Interesting. TW3K is better for making an inroad definitely. Though I'd argue that would diminish the profits from Cathay it's hard to argue out of thin air.

    My main remainig question which I couldn't find info on is China policy on video games. They banned bloody HoI games because of politics, would introducing mythological creatures trigger them?
    Well they censor skeletons in certain games they really dislike any sort of bones in World of Warcraft though looking it up they also dislike Skulls and Warhammer really is the wrong setting to dislike skulls in.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,488Registered Users

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    That market is much smaller then you'd think as far as PC goes.
    And the number one PC language on Steam is now Simplified Chinese according to hardware and software data. The market is definitely there, but you can easily argue CA is already tapping into that with TW3K.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey?platform=combined
    Interesting. TW3K is better for making an inroad definitely. Though I'd argue that would diminish the profits from Cathay it's hard to argue out of thin air.

    My main remainig question which I couldn't find info on is China policy on video games. They banned bloody HoI games because of politics, would introducing mythological creatures trigger them?
    Well they censor skeletons in certain games they really dislike any sort of bones in World of Warcraft though looking it up they also dislike Skulls and Warhammer really is the wrong setting to dislike skulls in.
    I was primarily refering to China's mythological creatures. Since that would be part of Cathay roster.

    Skulls and skeletons though.... damn.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • BaronKlatzBaronKlatz Posts: 1,037Registered Users
    edited January 2018

    I really hope they don't do Cathay, they have next to no lore significance whatsoever: the most they did was sail an army west that got butchered by the Lizardmen. What will they do, add an entire map and faction based purely on speculation? They didn't even have TT models if I remember correctly.

    Indeed, if implemented then CA will have to build the army mostly from scratch besides what lore hints they can use.

    They do have the benefit of a converted Bretonnian army made into Cathay soldiers in one White Dwarf at least. The rest will be up to them and whether they can make the army stand-out besides being fantasy Chinese.
  • CaptainSensibleCaptainSensible Junior Member Posts: 105Registered Users
    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    You're really underestimating the power of brand recognition. TWW was aimed squarely at the European market, because Warhammer is a major thing there, and not really anywhere else. Even in the US it's pretty obscure, let alone Asia. If they made a WH game focused on a highly exaggerated Western fantasy version of Asia, people would just say "wtf is that supposed to be?" and move on.

    Three Kingdoms is how you get market penetration in Asia. It's an iconic cultural touchstone that millions of people know and recognize. You build your game around that, and lots of people who'd never heard of Total War will get interested and soon you will have many more fans of the franchise.
  • baronblackbaronblack Posts: 3,202Registered Users
    Guys, we have to see what happens THIS game.
    If we get Araby, the near to zero chances of Cathay will just skyrocket.
    It's literally fundamental to get the Dogs of War and Araby in this game to guess properly what is coming next. And Dogs of War seems to be the next, as every hints goes to them atm.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,133Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    That market is much smaller then you'd think as far as PC goes.
    And the number one PC language on Steam is now Simplified Chinese according to hardware and software data. The market is definitely there, but you can easily argue CA is already tapping into that with TW3K.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey?platform=combined
    Interesting. TW3K is better for making an inroad definitely. Though I'd argue that would diminish the profits from Cathay it's hard to argue out of thin air.

    My main remainig question which I couldn't find info on is China policy on video games. They banned bloody HoI games because of politics, would introducing mythological creatures trigger them?
    Well they censor skeletons in certain games they really dislike any sort of bones in World of Warcraft though looking it up they also dislike Skulls and Warhammer really is the wrong setting to dislike skulls in.
    I was primarily refering to China's mythological creatures. Since that would be part of Cathay roster.

    Skulls and skeletons though.... damn.
    Yeah China does still censor a lot of stuff like that. It's weird because historically China has been against the depiction of their mythological history in the past for movies and the like by outside nations, but they do seem to be more lenient these days as long as it is portrayed in a positive light. Go negative and that's the quickest way to a ban. So as long as all of their units are more powerful than any other faction's and have no weaknesses, there shouldn't be a problem!

    They are right though, China does not like moving skeletons or ghosts.
    Later
  • baronblackbaronblack Posts: 3,202Registered Users

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    That market is much smaller then you'd think as far as PC goes.
    And the number one PC language on Steam is now Simplified Chinese according to hardware and software data. The market is definitely there, but you can easily argue CA is already tapping into that with TW3K.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey?platform=combined
    Interesting. TW3K is better for making an inroad definitely. Though I'd argue that would diminish the profits from Cathay it's hard to argue out of thin air.

    My main remainig question which I couldn't find info on is China policy on video games. They banned bloody HoI games because of politics, would introducing mythological creatures trigger them?
    Well they censor skeletons in certain games they really dislike any sort of bones in World of Warcraft though looking it up they also dislike Skulls and Warhammer really is the wrong setting to dislike skulls in.
    I was primarily refering to China's mythological creatures. Since that would be part of Cathay roster.

    Skulls and skeletons though.... damn.
    Yeah China does still censor a lot of stuff like that. It's weird because historically China has been against the depiction of their mythological history in the past for movies and the like by outside nations, but they do seem to be more lenient these days as long as it is portrayed in a positive light. Go negative and that's the quickest way to a ban. So as long as all of their units are more powerful than any other faction's and have no weaknesses, there shouldn't be a problem!

    They are right though, China does not like moving skeletons or ghosts.
    Yeah, remember World of Warcraft and how the Chinese version of the Undead Forsaken resembled a parody of punk-styled abominations. Hilarious.
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Posts: 5,337Registered Users

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    Crossil said:

    KronusX said:

    I am so amused at this thread. Hm, will CA listen to the 10 fans wanting Chaos only OR WH1 re-vamps (for free ofc, can't sell that) or attempt to release a DLC/faction in main game that can hit a market which has easily over one billion people? Hm... decisions.

    That market is much smaller then you'd think as far as PC goes.
    And the number one PC language on Steam is now Simplified Chinese according to hardware and software data. The market is definitely there, but you can easily argue CA is already tapping into that with TW3K.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey?platform=combined
    Interesting. TW3K is better for making an inroad definitely. Though I'd argue that would diminish the profits from Cathay it's hard to argue out of thin air.

    My main remainig question which I couldn't find info on is China policy on video games. They banned bloody HoI games because of politics, would introducing mythological creatures trigger them?
    Well they censor skeletons in certain games they really dislike any sort of bones in World of Warcraft though looking it up they also dislike Skulls and Warhammer really is the wrong setting to dislike skulls in.
    I was primarily refering to China's mythological creatures. Since that would be part of Cathay roster.

    Skulls and skeletons though.... damn.
    Yeah China does still censor a lot of stuff like that. It's weird because historically China has been against the depiction of their mythological history in the past for movies and the like by outside nations, but they do seem to be more lenient these days as long as it is portrayed in a positive light. Go negative and that's the quickest way to a ban. So as long as all of their units are more powerful than any other faction's and have no weaknesses, there shouldn't be a problem!

    They are right though, China does not like moving skeletons or ghosts.
    Yeah, remember World of Warcraft and how the Chinese version of the Undead Forsaken resembled a parody of punk-styled abominations. Hilarious.
    That's not even the best thing
    BREAD ARMOUR!


    was looking at the below for comparisons from WoWs Censored and uncensored versions
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/49x7m0/chinese_wow_censorship_comparisonlots_of/?st=ir0ww9tf&sh=2878040b
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Posts: 780Registered Users

    GalenHHH said:

    GalenHHH said:

    Red_Dox said:

    Ugh, another Cathay thread. I'm one of these people now.

    Cathay is the best choice for a core of game 3.

    If only they were partially on the map.
    So, you already KNOW the game#3 map? Please do leak it.


    Core races #3: Daemons, Chaos Dwarfs, OK and KISLEV! There, done and done.

    That's four for core. Missing Preorder as well as at least one race DLC and max. three ;)

    -------Red Dox
    Or you could split DoC to 4 and get 4 cores and keep the rest as DLC .Throw in some updates for game 1 and 2 races and voila game 3 ready .

    Edit- Also got to love the hypocrisy in some of the posters around here...
    4 Core Demon races would be bad for multiple reasons. You'd be splitting an awesome roster in 4 to make 4 mediocre races, variety would go down to zilch since they'd all be variations on the same thing and have similar playstyles, and you'd annoy TT Demon fans because you'd be splitting the roster in 4.

    Game 3 makes the most sense with 4 Core races; Ogres, Demons, Chaos Dwarves and Cathay.
    Ah, that sweet sweet hypocrisy...If CA invents units for DoC it will be bad and boring as you and others said in your other thread,but if CA invents a whole new race at the expense of allready existing factions its ok.
    Keep it up bro your arguments become better and better.
    There's no hypocrisy in my opinion. Cathay does not come in at the expense of any race, if TWW3 follows the formula of TWW1 and 2 there are 5 race slots including 1 pre-order DLC. Kislev, Ogre Kingdoms, Demons and Chaos Dwarves makes 4, leaving 1 slot free. Thus Cathay isn't taking the spot of any other race, it's taking the empty spot, hence no race misses out.

    I am fine with CA inventing units to some degree, I support the changes they made to the TK roster for example. Cathay has no roster, thus its units need to be CA made. The Demons have a roster, a great one. The only way the Demons need new units is if their Army book is torn into 4 pieces. So to make it nice and clear I support the introduction of new units by CA when gaps in the army book or the lack of an army book necessitate it, but I'm against tearing army books up.

    Cathay could have one of the best rosters ingame because it taps into Chinese mythology which no other faction uses. I'd love to see CA implement it.

    I really hope they don't do Cathay, they have next to no lore significance whatsoever: the most they did was sail an army west that got butchered by the Lizardmen. What will they do, add an entire map and faction based purely on speculation? They didn't even have TT models if I remember correctly.

    Shows what you know. Just from bits of lore that we know we have:

    Terricota soldiers
    stone dogs
    celestial dragons
    gold dragons
    monks
    monkey men
    cannons
    Magical fireworks
    Ki-rin cavalry


    All of that is cannon. On top of that we would expect the normal human infantry so atleast

    Cathay swordsmen/spears
    Imperial guard halberds/greatswords

    That's 13 units outright just from loreful stuff. Add a few more variations and some normal human cavalry/skermishers and we got a full roster easy.
  • BaronKlatzBaronKlatz Posts: 1,037Registered Users
    Hmm, I thought the Stonedogs were a hobgoblin thing. Ki-rin cavalry is also new to me, when were they mentioned?

    Also, are you sure the monkeymen aren't beastmen? Those descriptions I have heard of and they were to point out beastmen hiding among regular animals.

    You may have meant tigermen whose allegiance could go either way.
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Posts: 780Registered Users

    Hmm, I thought the Stonedogs were a hobgoblin thing. Ki-rin cavalry is also new to me, when were they mentioned?

    Also, are you sure the monkeymen aren't beastmen? Those descriptions I have heard of and they were to point out beastmen hiding among regular animals.

    You may have meant tigermen whose allegiance could go either way.

    I'm not a super lore enthusiast so everything I got was from the wiki page on cathay.

    Stone Dogs are actually called temple dogs that protect the temples of cathay.
    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Temple_Dogs

    For the Ki-rin it says that they are occasionally riden by powerful heroes, but that can be stretched into a elite cavalry option like demigriph knights.
    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ki-rin

    As for the monkeymen the wiki actually calls them monkey warriors and there isn't much more on them then that. I probably mixed them up a bit with the fan-book, that has them as less aggressive beastmen who prefer trickery over distruction and will except money to fight,

    Also forgot to mention the crow men which are another stone construct so add that to the list too.
  • WyvaxWyvax Posts: 1,912Registered Users

    Wtfah114 said:

    It says give us more dlc, and we'll buy it. The banner makes no mention of cathay whatsoever. If you are going to make a post about something, please have the correct information before posting.

    So you just ignored that big "Grand Cathay" map the guy on the right side is holding?
    "Cathay" is what the west used to call RL China, so that means absolutely zilch. GW were exceptionally lazy when it came to the Completely Irrelevant Neighbors.
    Actually they're exceptionally lazy when it comes to naming all their human factions.
    The Empire and Reikland being pretty obvious analogues to the Holy Roman Empire and the Rhineland (not to mention the German word Reich). Bretonnia is from both Brittania and more importantly the Breton people of NW France. Norsca is obvious, Albion is the oldest name IRL for Great Britain, Tilea is a deliberate mangling of Italia and Estalia is clearly inspired by Espana. So you're point is moot (hehehe).
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed

    It's T. rex, not T-Rex, you filthy casuals.
  • ArstellandaArstellanda Posts: 341Registered Users
    It would still be good to see THIS Warhammer world expanded, so having Cathay would contribute to that as well. Whether we'll get them who knows, but they would still be welcome.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,523Registered Users

    Guys, we have to see what happens THIS game.
    If we get Araby, the near to zero chances of Cathay will just skyrocket.
    It's literally fundamental to get the Dogs of War and Araby in this game to guess properly what is coming next. And Dogs of War seems to be the next, as every hints goes to them atm.

    Not Dogs of War, only Araby, CA might not want to add the Dogs of War because they have a lot of units from other Factions, but Araby is higher on the likelihood of being added then Cathay.
  • BaronKlatzBaronKlatz Posts: 1,037Registered Users
    edited January 2018
    "As for the monkeymen the wiki actually calls them monkey warriors and there isn't much more on them then that. I probably mixed them up a bit with the fan-book, that has them as less aggressive beastmen who prefer trickery over distruction and will except money to fight,"

    I was wondering if that's where it came from. Every monkey people mention in the novels always had them as evil creatures in the hidden parts of the world so I was dubious.

    Temple dogs is interesting and good to know it's not Stonedogs who were just some random speculation by the fandom made by their hobgoblin connection.

    And Ki-rin "mount" would've been nice so I could recall the conversion figure instead of trying to picture a completely exaggerated unit never mentioned before. :p

    Let's try to keep the Kislev bear cavalry level stuff to a minimum when describing the lore.

  • Erwin99Erwin99 Posts: 185Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    Erwin99 said:

    Crossil said:

    Erwin99 said:

    Crossil said:

    Erwin99 said:

    Crossil said:

    Erwin99 said:

    It amazes me how people are willing to settle for less content (no Cathay) "just because". It's as if they don't realize Warhammer 3 is gonna have a big chunk of it missing without Cathay, with only having Daemons, Chaos Dwarfs, Ogres, and blasted wasteland/mountains as a map. Kislev included as a good race would be cool, but having it as a main faction? Foolishness. There's 2 LLs max that they have, meaning there's no DLC potential there.

    Expanding all the way to Cathay opens up DLC potential not otherwise available between Kislev and the Mountains of Mourn, such as the Hobgoblin Khanate as well as having other Warhammer 1 and 2 races show up like Dark Elves who raid Cathay, as well as high elf colonies.

    There's SO much more variety if you include Cathay that I don't understand why people stick so doggedly to having just a tiny, uninteresting sliver of area such as the Darklands and Mountains of Mourn alone rather than as part of a larger map we can play on.

    There's also the Chinese market to take into account, which is something CA clearly is aware of considering the announcement of Three Kingdoms as a tentpole title, and on top of that for old Warhammer fans you can present something entirely fresh and new that's never been seen before to hype up Warhammer 3 with, rather than 4 (5 including Chaos Dwarfs) flavours of chaos and ogres. And Kislev too, who are always being besieged by Chaos and never have gone outside of their starting area, unlike other races like Cathay.

    Well Chaos is most popular aspect of Warhammer. 4 Chaos Gods duking it out with their own special armies would probably make them more happy then another human faction. We have Empire, Bretonnia, Norsca and WoC and will probably get Araby, Dogs of War and Kislev at that point. With DoC as one we'll need other races that CA will want to sell of which there's only Hobgoblin Khanate that's not human.

    4 Daemons or just even more humans. Since we get humans in all other games I'd prefer daemons in this one.
    Yes, but that's one demographic of Warhammer fans. CA could just make a proper singular Daemon faction like DoC were on tabletop with the addition of chaos god specific chaos warrior units and people would be happy. Also, again, China is a big market. Having something that appeals to them in the finale of the trilogy would be far more likely to boost sales than extra demons. Also, while Chaos may have been most popular with Warhammer fans, people were complaining that there weren't enough human factions in Warhammer 2 or that it wasn't worth being a standalone game due to worries over lack of content before release. If Warhammer 3 has mostly just daemon factions/evil or neutral factions and one human "good" faction that's a minor one like Kislev shoved into the left side of the map, there'd definitely be less content and variety than Warhammer 2, resulting in worse marketability and thus worse sales. Besides, CA isn't just trying to appeal to just hardcore Warhammer fans here, they're trying to appeal to the average fantasy fan or strategy game player who don't even know what Warhammer is or who only got into Warhammer with the the previous two games, meaning variety and breadth of content is key.
    I'm not sure. I'd say most of those who dislike the fantasy already jumped ship and the Chinese will get 3K so overlap would make Cathay harder to sell compared to that one. Though I hope for Albion I'd be surprised due to Thrones coming out.

    In my mind Cathay could only come as final DLC as a final salute to Warhammer. And even that is unlikely due to GW. CA is not in control. So 4 Chaos god armies can't be escaped in any way.
    Well, of course everyone who disliked Fantasy jumped ship. I didn't say they were marketing it to fans who swore off the series, they're marketing it to people who are "new" as in people new to Warhammer Fantasy who've bought the previous two total war games, and people who are on the fence, or straight up people who are new to strategy and who just enjoy Fantasy games. Also, I doubt having two Chinese-themes in two games (especially since Cathay is Chinese Fantasy while 3K is Chinese Historical, and Cathay would just be one faction) will cause oversaturation.

    I can't imagine something as huge as Cathay being DLC, especially since in past experience CA only makes faction DLC for areas already on the map. So if anything, it makes more sense to have the area of Kislev except placeholder and then have them a DLC and have Cathay as a main faction.

    I agree that 4 chaos factions are happening, but I think people overextend by saying it will ONLY be each gods units for that faction. I'm thinking it's more likely that there's 4 LLs, one for each god, and they each get reductions in upkeep and other bonuses for the units related to that god, but not outright stopping you from using other gods daemons for the sake of not restricting players.
    WE weren't on the map at start. You can expand map eastward later.

    And yeah CA is not in control here. With GW pushing god specific armies on TT, I'm just saying....

    As for those customers... most important ones are commited ones. Any newcomers will be taking up game 1 due to Empire and Bretonnia sooner then other two.

    China or not-China? Maybe not saturated but when given choice they'd prefer a popular history don't you think? Chinese who like fantasy are probably already in while those who are not will prefer 3K.
    The area the Wood Elves were on WAS there, though, but just inaccessible. All faction DLC has only ever expanded the areas already on the map, like in the case of Wood Elves, which reinforces my statement. Newcomers won't necessarily be buying game 1, if game 3 looks more fresh and interesting. The same thing happened with Warhammer 2 where people had it as their first Warhammer Total War game because they were interested in Elves who were two of the main factions and advertised heavily, or the other unique races they'd never seen in any other setting like Skaven.

    Also, considering that Chinese fans have been buying the Warhammer games a lot I don't see why they wouldn't choose to buy both. It essentially doubles CA's profits. There's always gonna be people in China who weren't interested in Warhammer because even if they like fantasy, it has nothing with a China equivalent, and once it's introduced they will be incentivized to drop cash on it.
    Already present landmass principle is there. Also a principle is that they only use units that already existed. Cathay? Not much of a program problem and ME is basically just extended game 1 campaign map so it isn't possible. Cathay assumes abandoning some principles so why not that one as well for a surprise?

    We'll just say we disagree on China market I guess. Given China equivalent versus China historical those who haven't bought fantasy will buy China historical, in my mind. No real proofs to give so a moot argument.
    How would Cathay not be a program problem? While Cathay assumes abandoning some principles, I'm pretty sure the engine doesn't handle adding additional landmasses very easily otherwise CA would use that to their advantage. It seems like they build the map from the start with whatever DLC they'll do simply fitting into the plan of the map, not the other way around.
  • Erwin99Erwin99 Posts: 185Registered Users

    GalenHHH said:

    GalenHHH said:

    Red_Dox said:

    Ugh, another Cathay thread. I'm one of these people now.

    Cathay is the best choice for a core of game 3.

    If only they were partially on the map.
    So, you already KNOW the game#3 map? Please do leak it.


    Core races #3: Daemons, Chaos Dwarfs, OK and KISLEV! There, done and done.

    That's four for core. Missing Preorder as well as at least one race DLC and max. three ;)

    -------Red Dox
    Or you could split DoC to 4 and get 4 cores and keep the rest as DLC .Throw in some updates for game 1 and 2 races and voila game 3 ready .

    Edit- Also got to love the hypocrisy in some of the posters around here...
    4 Core Demon races would be bad for multiple reasons. You'd be splitting an awesome roster in 4 to make 4 mediocre races, variety would go down to zilch since they'd all be variations on the same thing and have similar playstyles, and you'd annoy TT Demon fans because you'd be splitting the roster in 4.

    Game 3 makes the most sense with 4 Core races; Ogres, Demons, Chaos Dwarves and Cathay.
    Ah, that sweet sweet hypocrisy...If CA invents units for DoC it will be bad and boring as you and others said in your other thread,but if CA invents a whole new race at the expense of allready existing factions its ok.
    Keep it up bro your arguments become better and better.
    There's no hypocrisy in my opinion. Cathay does not come in at the expense of any race, if TWW3 follows the formula of TWW1 and 2 there are 5 race slots including 1 pre-order DLC. Kislev, Ogre Kingdoms, Demons and Chaos Dwarves makes 4, leaving 1 slot free. Thus Cathay isn't taking the spot of any other race, it's taking the empty spot, hence no race misses out.

    I am fine with CA inventing units to some degree, I support the changes they made to the TK roster for example. Cathay has no roster, thus its units need to be CA made. The Demons have a roster, a great one. The only way the Demons need new units is if their Army book is torn into 4 pieces. So to make it nice and clear I support the introduction of new units by CA when gaps in the army book or the lack of an army book necessitate it, but I'm against tearing army books up.

    Cathay could have one of the best rosters ingame because it taps into Chinese mythology which no other faction uses. I'd love to see CA implement it.

    I really hope they don't do Cathay, they have next to no lore significance whatsoever: the most they did was sail an army west that got butchered by the Lizardmen. What will they do, add an entire map and faction based purely on speculation? They didn't even have TT models if I remember correctly.

    Shows what you know. Just from bits of lore that we know we have:

    Terricota soldiers
    stone dogs
    celestial dragons
    gold dragons
    monks
    monkey men
    cannons
    Magical fireworks
    Ki-rin cavalry


    All of that is cannon. On top of that we would expect the normal human infantry so atleast

    Cathay swordsmen/spears
    Imperial guard halberds/greatswords

    That's 13 units outright just from loreful stuff. Add a few more variations and some normal human cavalry/skermishers and we got a full roster easy.
    I'll add to this that there's Cathayan repeater crossbowmen, they're the only faction aside from Dark Elves to use them.
  • Erwin99Erwin99 Posts: 185Registered Users
    Tayvar said:

    Guys, we have to see what happens THIS game.
    If we get Araby, the near to zero chances of Cathay will just skyrocket.
    It's literally fundamental to get the Dogs of War and Araby in this game to guess properly what is coming next. And Dogs of War seems to be the next, as every hints goes to them atm.

    Not Dogs of War, only Araby, CA might not want to add the Dogs of War because they have a lot of units from other Factions, but Araby is higher on the likelihood of being added then Cathay.
    Well Dogs of War at their core was mostly a tilean/southern realms human army. All the units from other factions were Regiments of Renown.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,066Registered Users
    edited January 2018
    Clearly theres demand, it would be stupid not to capitalise on $

    Unless ca is all about charity, hah
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
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  • IxusIxus Posts: 190Registered Users
    So 3 Kingdoms isn't enough cultural representation? My country is the largest consumer of these games and all we've been is a minor DLC in Empires.
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