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Does anyone actually want rampage in MP?

Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 3,614Registered Users
edited February 5 in Balancing Discussions
Are there people who actually want rampage in MP? If so could you tell me if you want it on all the units that currently have it or only on certain ones.

I would personally like to see it removed and the units that have it go up in cost slightly or have their stats dropped to balance it out, it would make many units usable and much easier to balance in the future and would not lead to frustrating situations.

As for witch elves making units rampage i would possibly change it to a mechanic similar to frostbite or enrage where they give their attacker higher MA but lower MD and Speed.
Post edited by Lotus_Moon on
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Comments

  • kenjigreatkenjigreat Posts: 384Registered Users
    edited February 4

    Are there people who actually want rampage in MP? If so could you tell me if you want it on all the units that currently have it or only on certain ones.

    I would personally like to see it removed and most the units that have it go up in cost slightly, or stats dropped, it would make many units usable and much easier to balance.

    As for which elves giving rampage i would possibly change it to a mechanic similar to frostbite or enrage where they give their attacker higher MA but lower MD.

    Witch Elves are the only unit in the DE roster that locks down units. I hate rampage as a mechanic and they should lose the ability to constantly rampage a unit 24/7 but in a game where Monsters with 75+ speed can run around, use AoE knockbacks on Halberds, Push cav with their mass.

    Honestly the whole game needs rebalancing. If you want to remove Rampage from everything, I'd also propose

    1. Fixing monsters
    2. Getting rid or nerfing Direct damage spells and abilities
    3. Windblast changed to a windspell with an actual windup, Chillwind and other similar spells also.
  • DavielebbDavielebb Posts: 792Registered Users
    The witchelves one is extremely annoying, the duration is too long for starters, its what 30 seconds? compared to 10 sec poison? Even if theres only a handful of them left, with their high attack speed and decent attack stats and move speed they can pin down anything indefinitely, i like the idea of it but a mechanic that powerful and cheap to field (plus the unit is cost effective in combat generally anyway so win win) should have limits, like 8 second duration, or maybe keep the 30 second duration but once applied cannot be reapplied to the same unit for like a minute making it possible to get out after a bit almost like a net, rather than a permanent snare once they are in combat with you.

    As for the rampage on units themselves, feral dinos should have it definitly, but maybe reduce the threshold for it triggering. Saurus should have it because otherwise they are just far too strong for cost.
    The main one i see people complaining about is the cold one knights, such an expensive unit gets punished so much more being cav thats not supposed to be in prolonged combat, which isnt an issue for saurus or dinos who do fine in sustained combat.
    I would say any rider mounted monster shouldnt have it, but at the same time the problem is DE are so bloody strong already im worried removing rampage from cold ones would get rid of one of their bigget weakness making them a ridiculusly OP faction
  • kenjigreatkenjigreat Posts: 384Registered Users
    edited February 4
    Davielebb said:

    The witchelves one is extremely annoying, the duration is too long for starters, its what 30 seconds? compared to 10 sec poison? Even if theres only a handful of them left, with their high attack speed and decent attack stats and move speed they can pin down anything indefinitely, i like the idea of it but a mechanic that powerful and cheap to field (plus the unit is cost effective in combat generally anyway so win win) should have limits, like 8 second duration, or maybe keep the 30 second duration but once applied cannot be reapplied to the same unit for like a minute making it possible to get out after a bit almost like a net, rather than a permanent snare once they are in combat with you.

    As for the rampage on units themselves, feral dinos should have it definitly, but maybe reduce the threshold for it triggering. Saurus should have it because otherwise they are just far too strong for cost.
    The main one i see people complaining about is the cold one knights, such an expensive unit gets punished so much more being cav thats not supposed to be in prolonged combat, which isnt an issue for saurus or dinos who do fine in sustained combat.
    I would say any rider mounted monster shouldnt have it, but at the same time the problem is DE are so bloody strong already im worried removing rampage from cold ones would get rid of one of their bigget weakness making them a ridiculusly OP faction

    DE have a really big weakness, it's called kiting them to death with Parthian Shot units. You can do it with Lizards, Skaven or Beastmen. Their fastest units have low killing potential. Their bows are slow and have short range. Shades are expensive.

    Getting rid of Rampage wouldn't solve it.

    The faction has 1. 0 Healing 2. 0 ways to lock down any units without Witch Elves 3. Low range Arty and reliance on Infantry because their cav basically gives up after 50% Hp.

    They are my favorite faction to play but they have very obvious weaknesses.
  • ElectorOfWurttembergElectorOfWurttemberg Posts: 1,030Registered Users
    the mechanic it self doesn't bother me
    What are you, some kind of... FANBOY
  • DavielebbDavielebb Posts: 792Registered Users
    What kind of kiting do you mean? I mean sure maybe wood elfs could do it but who else?
    Also Dark riders are super cost effective for chasing down skirmisher units.
    Witch elves being their only way to lock down targets isnt a valid argument, most factions have no way to lock down a target and most of the ones that do come from lore of light which means paying for caster, using all your magic on one spell, not being able to take a healer, and having a unit that cannot fight and is easily killed by pretty much anything. Witchelves on the other hand dont use your magic, are a great combat unit, and PERMANENTLY long down whatever they are hitting.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 3,614Registered Users
    edited February 4
    DE got chill wind, and fast cav, plus if which elves provided 50% slow what more do you want to lock down units, besides what other factions have lock downs not in the form of magic? (only dwarfs come to mind).

    If your having problems vs short ranged missile units with DE's than its not a DE issue it more player based, as DE have some of the most cost effective units at dealing with skirmishers.

    DE weakness is medium specialised range units, so if they fight many light units their dont pay their points, no faction should have a lock down mechanic such as which elves.
  • Busa1227Busa1227 Posts: 3,107Registered Users
    edited February 4
    A lot of Dark Elves units are cheap and have silver shields and they also have access to ranged units with silver shields. It's much more than some other factions have to deal with kiting builds.

    Maybe the problem is some specific kiting build being too strong, for example, Lizardmen kiting build is too strong vs some factions IMO and Chameleons still need a nerf/change.

  • ystyst Posts: 2,598Registered Users
    Dark elf getting kited? LOL thsts just too funny

    As with rampage no one likes it, at first ppl thought it gives unbreakable but then its not, then ppl thought it gives bonus att, which again is false slso.

    Turns out its just a stupid mechanic where ur units yolo. Remove or change it
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  • PippingtonPippington Posts: 1,508Registered Users
    I agree with Lotus, Rampage adds nothing to the game.


    Get on, Kroq-Gar, we're going shopping

  • kenjigreatkenjigreat Posts: 384Registered Users
    Davielebb said:

    What kind of kiting do you mean? I mean sure maybe wood elfs could do it but who else?
    Also Dark riders are super cost effective for chasing down skirmisher units.
    Witch elves being their only way to lock down targets isnt a valid argument, most factions have no way to lock down a target and most of the ones that do come from lore of light which means paying for caster, using all your magic on one spell, not being able to take a healer, and having a unit that cannot fight and is easily killed by pretty much anything. Witchelves on the other hand dont use your magic, are a great combat unit, and PERMANENTLY long down whatever they are hitting.

    No armor can be easily netted killed by no need armor piercing missiles.
  • Nitros14Nitros14 Junior Member Posts: 1,291Registered Users
    I like rampage in single player and would be annoyed if it was removed.

    Don't care about multiplayer.
  • PrayPray Posts: 1,332Registered Users
    I like rampage too glad to see a new thing for warhammer
  • saberslash117saberslash117 Posts: 205Registered Users

    I agree with Lotus, Rampage adds nothing to the game.

    rampage adds a balance for cheap powerful units.....
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Posts: 3,500Registered Users
    Such pitiful souls! (seriously you are so incompetent and now started to make threads to remove what you can not handle)
  • SarmatiansSarmatians Posts: 1,734Registered Users
    It would be ok if rampage was a bit more controllable, like if Cold Blooded could stop it, instead of healing damage.
  • ystyst Posts: 2,598Registered Users
    Just frikking change rampage to -33% speed already. So units dont get to break away from fight, with obvious consequences.

    Best yet, remove it
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  • SarmatiansSarmatians Posts: 1,734Registered Users
    Or maybe implement it is a mostly negative modifier but with some positives while allowing players to keep control of a unit, like +5 MA, -10 MD.
  • ArchonPrimeArchonPrime Posts: 1,000Registered Users
    CA:"but we think it's so coooooooooool!"
  • NightOfTheDeadNightOfTheDead Member Posts: 565Registered Users
    edited February 5
    Disagree with witch elves. Witch elves should keep at least the silence and slow mechanic. Unit/hero engaged by them is controllable, but cannot use abilities and is slowed. The trade off you are offering is absolutely terrible compared what it offers now.




  • RandomTagRandomTag Posts: 1,473Registered Users
    some units on TT do have random movement, random attack random buff/debuff etc, etc. Rampage is a rough approximation of all these random factors, of course it's not as detailed as TT special rules, but eliminating rampage altogether is not a good idea.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 1,051Registered Users
    How about if leadership played a role vs rampage?

    If your unit had higher LD it might be more resistant to rampage. I.e. you could trigger rampage by a rear charge, or pop units out of their rampage by using Stand your ground. Or make units more resistant to rampage by having leadership nearby (and not running destruction derby to snipe out the enemy mage 24/7).

    Same could go for witchelves, high LD characters could be more resistant vs their rampage debuff than low tier units. Maybe you could even bust out your dragon by charging in with your lord?

    Could create some interesting play?

  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 1,933Registered Users
    I like rampage as a mechanic, and witch elves as well. Because they have such great utility the rampage should perhaps take longer to trigger (maybe it does now?) and/or witch elves should be slightly pricier.

    I like some units having rampage in return for being cheaper. They are fire and forget units, and it takes some good planning to use them right.

  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 3,614Registered Users
    Main reason against rampage is that in a game about using tactics and mobility not being able to control your units does not make sense to me.

    I cannot stand loosing control of my units due to random mechanics. I think its fine to have in the game but keep it to single player same with free summons.
  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 1,933Registered Users

    Main reason against rampage is that in a game about using tactics and mobility not being able to control your units does not make sense to me.

    I cannot stand loosing control of my units due to random mechanics. I think its fine to have in the game but keep it to single player same with free summons.

    It's not that random it occurs when you take damage or step on witch elves... Takes plenty of planning to manage that.
  • PocmanPocman Posts: 1,556Registered Users
    I don't have a problem with the mechanic itself. But i do think it should be taken out from cavalry and certain monsters.

  • Elder_MolochElder_Moloch Posts: 910Registered Users
    >If so could you tell me if you want it on all the units that currently have it or only on certain ones.

    I don't play MP as you know, but from what I've seen Rampage ain't that bad if to count how it should work, but not that good in terms of how it's workig now. It's interesting to say at least and give extra tactical depth with advantage to your opponent or to you, if you could imbue such thing on opponent units/he has such units.
    Meanwhile, I think it need small rebalance: units could get +10-15 to LD everytime Rampage kicks in and until it would be deactivated. As for units like Carnosaurs - I think their base morale could be nerfed a bit, so they have less chances to rout with Rampage, but more without it.
    But it's in general I still don't understand in which situations or how long Rampage works and is there any way to turn it off how. So...need to understand it better. I heard that it activates when HP is about 50% or something like this, but it looks like that it start to work with morale penalties and when there is unit nearby which could be attacked. Still not sure about mechanics.
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  • KranoxKranox Posts: 1,717Registered Users
    Remove it on any Calavlry units? It would help Horbed ones a lot
  • ElectorOfWurttembergElectorOfWurttemberg Posts: 1,030Registered Users
    It should be treated like a taunt in WoW
    What are you, some kind of... FANBOY
  • KranoxKranox Posts: 1,717Registered Users
    edited February 8
    Rampage at least to make it interesting a bit more than just loosing control, it should give plus 10 melee attack and minus 10 melee defence on top of rampage, but as soon as they are out of combat the Rampage stop until they fight someone else, so it would nake such that you cant pull out of the engagements unitl one of the 2 units is dead and if the Rampage unit win, at least you get control back.

    Plus the Change between MD and MA makes sens, Saurus are a pretty defensive units, with higher MD than MA, so it would change things a bit making them more squishy, but need to be more carefull when attacking them.

    It makes sens Lorewise, a unit that goes rampage doesnt give a **** about defence anymore, it just wants to kill.

    Oersonally i feel there is a missed opportunity with rampage. Its simply too simple, and could be much more fun
    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • SarmatiansSarmatians Posts: 1,734Registered Users
    Horned One without rampage would have to go up in price by a LOT.
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