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Why Shogun 2 ?

vveeddvveedd Junior MemberPosts: 7Registered Users
edited July 2010 in Total War: Shogun 2
As much as I am a great fan of all Total war games I keep asking myself why after releasing one game in next time period SEGA company always release one old game as new (or part two or whatever). This has happened with Total War Medieval and now with Shogun. To my opinion, this is just greed for easy money. Logically, it is much easier to improve existing code then to write a new one for same money. Don't get me wrong here, I will, probably, buy TW: Shogun 2 but I will be much happier to buy TW: American Civil War or TW: First World War.
Post edited by vveedd on
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Comments

  • ElyriothElyrioth Senior Member Posts: 1,053Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    Well Civil War would be too small to be a game on itself. I certainly hope we never see a WWI TW. Like a lot of fans.
    I think the 10 years since the release of STW has a lot to do with it. I think CA are also going to move back in time a bit for the new couple of releases.

    And top claim it is for greed is kinda silly. They are not going to use code from Shogun, nor are the releasing a old game as new. S1 is too old to be of any use in this process, this will be a brand new game based only the theme will be the same. Sequels are normal an expected. You can be guarenteed there will be a Rome 2 at some point too.
    A lot of TW fans want Shogun 2, probalby far more than WW1 anyway, and that is why they are doing it.
    Na Géanna Fiáine [The Wild Geese]

    "What is best in life?"
    "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
  • Kinjo-migratedKinjo-migrated Senior Member Posts: 468Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    Honestly this is the best move CA could have made design wise imo, most players wanted to return back to some melee action one way or another the polls clearly showed that. The timing is also good, what better way to celebrate a 10 year anniversary then to make a squeal to a game that started the entire series? and finally the warscape engine is prime for a feudal Japan setting with some rudimentary gun powder weapons and naval warfare.
  • CloverClover Senior Member Posts: 4,964Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I really never liked it when people say companies do things because of greed, it's almost always totally unfair..

    A lot of people (including myself) have wanted to see STW remade for a long time, and i really did not like my beloved TW series get lost in the gunpowder era for two games- it broke my heart!


    To be honest, i love the civil war- i think it has so many twists in it- but it has no place in TW, do you know how lame the combat would be? Units shooting 200 yards away with great accuracy, rifles that shot 8 times and took only 30 seconds to reload. If you think ETW's combat was short and un-fun just think of what it would be like if combat only took half the time, and with only at the most 4 factions ( CSA, USA, and Native Americans who fought on both sides)


    WW1 would just be ridiculously fast paced, it was very common for entire platoons to be wiped out in less than a minute. Really how fun would that be? Players would turtle worse than they did in RTW.. and then you have to think how to implement units like tanks, planes, long range artillery, trenches, gas, MGs, and other weapons that are radically different to anything that has been done.

    WW1 politics suit the TW series, but the actual battles and campaign map would not.
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  • luckylimburgerluckylimburger Senior Member Posts: 1,856Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    It doesn't matter if it's Rome or Shogun II as long as it really feels like a Total war, I'll enjoy it. It looks like they'll keep making Total Wars so they'll probably make a Rome II at some point in the future (and maybe a Civil War).
  • vveeddvveedd Junior Member Posts: 7Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    Well, opinions about the best game in Total War serial are very subjective. To my opinion the best game in TW serial is Napoleon Total War. I prefer gunpowder over swords and arrows with all do respect for Shogun, Medieval and Rome games. Empire Total War is also great game but major problem are 3 maps in campaign. To my opinion, TW serial has evolved to next, higher and better level with gunpowder era and with WWI and WWII games will evolve to next, better level. TW: American civil war game will be transfer period between levels, although, you are maybe right for being too small.

    And I seriously doubt that they will write completely new code for Shogun 2…
  • vaptinvaptin Senior Member Posts: 752Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    The thing is, I don't think alot of total war fans were keen for another gun-powder based game.
  • King RufusKing Rufus Senior Member HispaniaPosts: 1,626Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I hope Total War doesn't go towards WWI, and I agree with vaptin. Though Empire and Napoleon were good for a change I (and most of TW players) prefer the sword and shield and close combat of Shogun, Rome and Medieval.

    And the reason to going back to Shogun 2 has been answered by Keiran (sorry for spelling man =P) in almost every interviwe on Shogun 2. They wanted to go back to their first game after 10 years, because now they have far superior technology (and experience) and they wanted to once again focus on a small area in the world and put correctly all the details and create the most immersive TW game to date.
    "Organized chaos is your best friend, as it will always seem as pure chaos to your opponent."

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  • ElyriothElyrioth Senior Member Posts: 1,053Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I agree, probably where ETW fell down was the scale and all the newness. NTW pulled back on scale and allowed them to stabilise the engine and Iron out the kinks. Shogun is there chance to take the flagship game, the very logo for the TW series after all is a samurai, on its 10 year aniversary in the latest engine with the latest graphics and all the lessons learned in 10 years.
    Also a lot of TW players such as Clover and myself, love STW and would rank it as one of the greatest games of all time. A return to the game was inevitable and there is no better time than the 10th anniversary now is there?
    Na Géanna Fiáine [The Wild Geese]

    "What is best in life?"
    "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
  • KlotzekKlotzek Member Posts: 87Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    It is Shogun 2 because thats the best time period, the best location, the best culture and FINALLY no
    european map. I'm sick of it, a very detailed japanese map would be awesome.
  • King RufusKing Rufus Senior Member HispaniaPosts: 1,626Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    Also it will help them to sort of "clean their name" after the mess release of Empire with the more focused Shogun 2. Also the main thing that turned me away from Empire at the end was the lack of immersion unlike Medieval 2 for example which I'm able to return to any moment I want and still be immersed into it.
    "Organized chaos is your best friend, as it will always seem as pure chaos to your opponent."

    My entrance into filmmaking. http://www.youtube.com/TripleGTrinity
  • CloverClover Senior Member Posts: 4,964Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I really wish they would post a new screen shot, maybe one a month? ^_~
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  • phantomofrussiaphantomofrussia Junior Member Posts: 26Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    Clover wrote: »
    I really wish they would post a new screen shot, maybe one a month? ^_~

    They should do that update that Sensei would do for ETW.
  • vveeddvveedd Junior Member Posts: 7Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    King Rufus wrote: »
    Also it will help them to sort of "clean their name" after the mess release of Empire with the more focused Shogun 2. Also the main thing that turned me away from Empire at the end was the lack of immersion unlike Medieval 2 for example which I'm able to return to any moment I want and still be immersed into it.

    In my case they “clear their name” with Napoleon Total War. It is immersive enough, but, of course it can be better. They should have added some good features from Medieval like political weddings, better rewards for carried out missions and more depth in political relationships. I am sure that Shogun 2 will be great game but I really hope that second team is working on next gunpowder era game. :p
  • thewarri0rthewarri0r Junior Member Posts: 8Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I was really hoping they were going to make a game that didnt involve guns, and they have.... kind of :P

    All i hope for is that they make Rome total war 2 after this, im sure Shogun 2 will be awesome, empire and napoleon were good games but i really dont like the guns. Real fighting is what total war should be about
  • Dionysius the MightyDionysius the Mighty Senior Member Posts: 3,194Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I still find gunpowder to be a breath of fresh air after nine successive melee titles. Even as early as M2TW I was starting to get tired of the same old melee charge tactics and looked forward in every campaign to the discovery of gunpowder when I could load up on Musketeers and Culverins and try something new.

    I think it's also important to remember that Empire was the highest selling Total War ever, so there's obviously a fairly significant group of people with an interest in gunpowder. Shogun 2's going to be a brilliant title, so far the detail looks amazing, but I think it would be a crying shame to abandon gunpowder altogether. There's still potential at either end of the era.
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  • Denmark: Total WarDenmark: Total War Member Posts: 43Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I would really love a TW game from 1500-1699 in europe:p
  • Nick StoneNick Stone Senior Member Posts: 385Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I think the reason why so many people brought ETW was the way it was marketed. Plus awesome graphics and things like naval battles are good eye candy, rather then just the era.

    There are still many more eras for TW to try, although i would like a return to the ancient world...
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  • phantomofrussiaphantomofrussia Junior Member Posts: 26Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    another main reason why a lot more people bought it was because of the larger focus on america.

    when they make Rome 2 Total War, I will jumping up and down and screaming like a little girl because of my excitement lol
  • Sir.TalbotSir.Talbot Member Posts: 44Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I honestly don't care what they do, so long as the AI is half decent.

    Saying that, I have proven awful at the naval battles in ETW/NTW and would prefer the oared ships of the Japanese Feudal navies.
  • Celt1114Celt1114 Member Posts: 53Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I cant wait till shogun 2 is for sale!
    With the technology they used in ETW this will be the best TW of all.

    Imagine the graphics utilizing the ETW and NTW and all the detail. The oriental lanscape buildings and battlefields will be way cool.
    I think it's the obvious choice and a good one.
  • Kinjo-migratedKinjo-migrated Senior Member Posts: 468Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    Celt1114 wrote: »
    I cant wait till shogun 2 is for sale!
    With the technology they used in ETW this will be the best TW of all.

    Imagine the graphics utilizing the ETW and NTW and all the detail. The oriental lanscape buildings and battlefields will be way cool.
    I think it's the obvious choice and a good one.

    I think it will look better to be honest.
  • QwazzQwazz Junior Member Posts: 25Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I personally like their decision. I'm not a big fan of the gunpowder based games and i do like Japanese history so I will love to buy this when it comes out.
  • IBlewaFuseIBlewaFuse Senior Member CanadaPosts: 1,241Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    Elyrioth wrote: »
    I agree, probably where ETW fell down was the scale and all the newness. NTW pulled back on scale and allowed them to stabilise the engine and Iron out the kinks. Shogun is there chance to take the flagship game, the very logo for the TW series after all is a samurai, on its 10 year aniversary in the latest engine with the latest graphics and all the lessons learned in 10 years.
    Also a lot of TW players such as Clover and myself, love STW and would rank it as one of the greatest games of all time. A return to the game was inevitable and there is no better time than the 10th anniversary now is there?

    Agreed, Shogun was a brilliant game and CA is doing themselves and us a favour by taking a step back, and focusing in rather than have their well thought out but poorly executed ideas everywhere.
  • Dunnerstick69Dunnerstick69 Senior Member Posts: 101Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    vveedd wrote: »
    As much as I am a great fan of all Total war games I keep asking myself why after releasing one game in next time period SEGA company always release one old game as new (or part two or whatever). This has happened with Total War Medieval and now with Shogun. To my opinion, this is just greed for easy money. Logically, it is much easier to improve existing code then to write a new one for same money. Don't get me wrong here, I will, probably, buy TW: Shogun 2 but I will be much happier to buy TW: American Civil War or TW: First World War.

    Because my friend they:
    1.want to make previous work better
    2. Theres not too many more eras or places you can make a TW game for, i mean not after Napoleon, Napoleons expanse was the biggest event, worldwide, that happened in the 1800's, next step, chronilogically, would be the 2 World Wars.

    And on top of this just because theyve dne the games chronilogically does not mean thats how they do it, its more likely a coincidence than anything else.
  • CloverClover Senior Member Posts: 4,964Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    thewarri0r wrote: »
    I was really hoping they were going to make a game that didnt involve guns, and they have.... kind of :P

    All i hope for is that they make Rome total war 2 after this, im sure Shogun 2 will be awesome, empire and napoleon were good games but i really dont like the guns. Real fighting is what total war should be about

    Well i really don't mind firearms, just as long as they are not the main focus, and only a late gate terminology ment to showcase the end of the TW era as a unstoppable force that kills without the need of true skill.
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  • vveeddvveedd Junior Member Posts: 7Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    In my country we have saying, I will try to translate as close as I can to original: one hundred people - one hundred nature/temper (or in this case - opinions). As for opinion about reasons why ETW is best selling game I agree with Dionysius the Mighty and phantomofrussia. Many people/players gunpowder era have considered as something fresh and new for a change, map of America has enhanced sales, for sure, and many people just like guns over melee combat (me included).
    I am happy because one thing; for understandable reason US market is number one target so I can say with great certainty WE WILL HAVE TW: AMERICAN CIVIL WAR.
  • Knight TemplarKnight Templar Senior Member Posts: 498Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    ETW had the most sales among the Total War games partly because, as some of the other posts mentioned, marketing and the inclusion of America as well as the fact that Total War had, on the surface, a very good track record of being high quality strategy games. Plus don't forget the impressive mods made for Rome and Medieval II.

    That said, for someone who hadn't played the original Shogun, I feel its a good decision by CA to introduce to a generation of players who became fans of the series post-Shogun an era that supposedly is a perfect setting for total war, though I was hoping for a China: Total War.
  • ElyriothElyrioth Senior Member Posts: 1,053Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    Clover wrote: »
    Well i really don't mind firearms, just as long as they are not the main focus, and only a late gate terminology ment to showcase the end of the TW era as a unstoppable force that kills without the need of true skill.

    While opposed to your anti-firearm agenda normally that actually makes sense I see your point now.
    Still like 1700s and think it will make the best TW game if done right though :p
    Na Géanna Fiáine [The Wild Geese]

    "What is best in life?"
    "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
  • Sweman!Sweman! Junior Member Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited July 2010
    I might think they might make a game about the wars from the 1800s. With campaigns like the American Civil war and the Crimean war! Anyways they might make sucha game with some famous wars from around the 1850s, with multible different campaigns.. I hope they don't make sucha game tho... Napoleon Total War is as far as i wanna go in the evolution. :P
  • oOIYvYIOooOIYvYIOo Banned Posts: 53Banned Users
    edited July 2010
    I already dream with the game :rolleyes:
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