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Ultimate Araby Unit List (The Canon Edition)

13

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  • NemotheelfNemotheelf Posts: 723Registered Users
    Honestly, a good way to just wrap up Arabyan religion is just take some of the gods in the Old World, especially in the south, and just Arabyize them. That more or less happened in real life between the Greek and Romans with the gods of Palmyra and Nabatea. Since they're major traders and scholars, building temples to Arabyan Renald, Vereena, and Mathlann wouldn't be a bad idea.

    It's not the most inspired idea in the world, but it could help Araby kind of connect to the other human factions since it's implied that most of the gods worshiped by humanity other than Sigmar and The Lady are really just the same gods, even going all the way back to Nehekhara. Besides, Ormazd is already a real-life god and he's a Iranian one, which kind of sticks out like a sore thumb.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,096Registered Users
    Heck, it got retconned in the End Times, but the 2e WHFRP stuff strongly indicated that even the human and elven pantheons overlapped.

    Mathlann and Manann being a particularly unsubtle case.
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    Thr current vote for next thread is:
    1. Middenland - 3 votes
    2. Estalia - 3 votes
    3. Vampire Coast - 1 vote

    @Nemotheelf I think the Arabyans would share some gods with the Old World, like Manann, but I also think they'd have some deities that are unique to them.

    After all, most Old World races have at least a few gods that pertain more specifically to their society's values, concerns, environment, and conditions of living. If a people's lives don't involve anything in a god's portfolio, they're probably not going to bother worshipping them.

    For example, I'd be very surprised if Ursen and Ulric were worshipped in Araby, since bears, wolves, and fighting Chaos aren't likely major factors in Araby, being a land of deserts that's super far from the poles. By the same token, Araby would have gods more specifically linked to the desert, heat, and/or sun, as those are much more prominent for Arabyans than they ere for Old Worlders.

    The one Old World god I definitely want to see the Arabyans' relationship with is Myrmidia. Do they detest her for being the patron goddess of their ancient foes, the Tileans and Estalians, or has trade and millennia of cross-cultural connections caused her worship to spread among Arabyans? If she is worshipped in Araby, is it officially sanctioned? Do their beliefs and rites differ from the Old Worlders'?
  • Mad MacMad Mac Junior Member Posts: 718Registered Users
    I'd put my preference order at:

    1. Estalia
    2. Middenland
    3. Vampire Coast

    Mostly because Estalia lore definitely requires the most digging out of the three.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,096Registered Users
    edited April 2018

    Thr current vote for next thread is:
    1. Middenland - 3 votes
    2. Estalia - 3 votes
    3. Vampire Coast - 1 vote

    @Nemotheelf I think the Arabyans would share some gods with the Old World, like Manann, but I also think they'd have some deities that are unique to them.

    After all, most Old World races have at least a few gods that pertain more specifically to their society's values, concerns, environment, and conditions of living. If a people's lives don't involve anything in a god's portfolio, they're probably not going to bother worshipping them.

    For example, I'd be very surprised if Ursen and Ulric were worshipped in Araby, since bears, wolves, and fighting Chaos aren't likely major factors in Araby, being a land of deserts that's super far from the poles. By the same token, Araby would have gods more specifically linked to the desert, heat, and/or sun, as those are much more prominent for Arabyans than they ere for Old Worlders.

    The one Old World god I definitely want to see the Arabyans' relationship with is Myrmidia. Do they detest her for being the patron goddess of their ancient foes, the Tileans and Estalians, or has trade and millennia of cross-cultural connections caused her worship to spread among Arabyans? If she is worshipped in Araby, is it officially sanctioned? Do their beliefs and rites differ from the Old Worlders'?

    What they'd probably have is a very similar pantheon to Nehekhara, possibly with a greater focus on deities related to trade. But they'd never admit that their pantheon is similar. :P

    They'd definitely have some equivalent to Ptra, I expect, while worship of the Imperial equivalent has pretty much died out (possibly replaced by Myrmidia, and possibly because the heart of that god's worship was this little place called Solland).
  • Wargol5Wargol5 Posts: 1,275Registered Users
    Here's the fun facts :






  • Wargol5Wargol5 Posts: 1,275Registered Users
    Ah, and good work mr Scribe !

    (yeah i'd rather make a new post than editing my post above because the anti-spam thing will block my post)
  • Wargol5Wargol5 Posts: 1,275Registered Users
    Concerning the winds of magic, i don't think it's really that hard for arabyans sorcerers to manipulate winds of magic considering many factions make heavy use of magic while being far from the poles (lizardmens, high elves from small islands, the vampire coast, tomb kings, etc).

    The winds of magic in Araby are more diffuse but not so much.
    And since Tzeentch corrupted Araby lands, it should be more easy to practice magic.
  • baronblackbaronblack Posts: 3,202Registered Users
    Wargol5 said:

    Concerning the winds of magic, i don't think it's really that hard for arabyans sorcerers to manipulate winds of magic considering many factions make heavy use of magic while being far from the poles (lizardmens, high elves from small islands, the vampire coast, tomb kings, etc).

    The winds of magic in Araby are more diffuse but not so much.
    And since Tzeentch corrupted Araby lands, it should be more easy to practice magic.

    It's not like that. "Being far from the Poles" works only for humans.

    Lizards and HE are magically adapt because this is how they were engineered. They have none of the weakness of the humans regarding magic.
    The Vampire Coast does not have a low magic profile because it's necromancers use Plaques stolen from Lizardmen to inanimate undead, performing better tricks with necromancy, like giving their zombies the capabilities to hold handguns. Magic is not even used by Harkon, since he is uncapable to do so. Nehekharans magic works because of many plot devices that helped the Liche Priest using it (like using part of their Gods power, for example)

    Araby Magicians needs Djinns to incanalate better enchantments because the Winds of Magic are too low in their region. These handicap their magic as every other human magician in every corner of the World where the Winds are low.
  • oliverpmasonoliverpmason Posts: 898Registered Users
    Estalia please. I know about Middenland and don't care about Vampire Coast.

    Great thread BTW.
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    Wargol5 said:

    Concerning the winds of magic, i don't think it's really that hard for arabyans sorcerers to manipulate winds of magic considering many factions make heavy use of magic while being far from the poles (lizardmens, high elves from small islands, the vampire coast, tomb kings, etc).

    The winds of magic in Araby are more diffuse but not so much.
    And since Tzeentch corrupted Araby lands, it should be more easy to practice magic.

    Hey, I didn't write the lore. I just report it. ;)

    I did have similar thoughts, though. How can other races near the equator use magic normally when Arabyans write it off as too difficult and bind Djinns instead? I suppose you could rationalize the High Elves and Lizardmen's magical prowess as them having a stronger connection to the Winds of Magic than humans. I think often Vampires get their magical abilities enhanced by their curse, plus they have a lot of years to build up their magical prowess.

    As for Nehekharans, their magic is EXTREMELY ritualized, with VERY intricate and difficult incantations and rituals used to work magic (even compared to other Warhammer races). Perhaps those rituals consolidate the Winds of Magic so a Nehekharan wizard can cast his spell normally? But that's just speculation.

    Ultimately, I don't know why the lore says Araby is too far from the poles to use magic normally when other races do fine. But I do know that I love their lore about Djinns, so I'd rather rationalize it than see Arabyan magic changed.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,096Registered Users
    The High Elves actually have a good explanation - despite being close to the equator, Ulthuan is where all the magic that leaves the poles eventually gets sucked to by the Vortex. It's probably the most magical place in the world outside of the northern and southern Chaos Wastes.

    For the Lizardmen, it's likely that the geomantic web through their temple-cities plays a similar role.

    Mind you, I always had the impression that regular magic was just weaker in Araby rather than impossible.
  • crazycrixcrazycrix Posts: 400Registered Users
    Estalia for me :smile: I do wonder if there is any named character from that part of the world

    We Do Not Serve, We Rule!
  • oliverpmasonoliverpmason Posts: 898Registered Users
    Does anyone know if the Brettonians were able to use magic during their crusade? I guess it is something that is not mentioned.
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    The High Elves actually have a good explanation - despite being close to the equator, Ulthuan is where all the magic that leaves the poles eventually gets sucked to by the Vortex. It's probably the most magical place in the world outside of the northern and southern Chaos Wastes.

    For the Lizardmen, it's likely that the geomantic web through their temple-cities plays a similar role.

    Mind you, I always had the impression that regular magic was just weaker in Araby rather than impossible.

    It is weaker. That's why Arabyans use Djinns to get around that problem.
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,320Registered Users

    Does anyone know if the Brettonians were able to use magic during their crusade? I guess it is something that is not mentioned.

    It doesn't say if the Crusaders brought magic with them in any of the records I've come across. It just talks about how the Arabyans were beaten by the horde of Bretonnian and Imperial heavy cavalry, which they had no answer to (which is odd considering they live next to the Tomb Kings, but whatever).

    But if GW has any interest in keeping the lore consistent, then Old World wizards in Araby should have a much more difficult time working their magic in conventional ways.
  • oliverpmasonoliverpmason Posts: 898Registered Users


    Does anyone know if the Brettonians were able to use magic during their crusade? I guess it is something that is not mentioned.

    It doesn't say if the Crusaders brought magic with them in any of the records I've come across. It just talks about how the Arabyans were beaten by the horde of Bretonnian and Imperial heavy cavalry, which they had no answer to (which is odd considering they live next to the Tomb Kings, but whatever).

    But if GW has any interest in keeping the lore consistent, then Old World wizards in Araby should have a much more difficult time working their magic in conventional ways.
    Thanks!
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,096Registered Users


    Does anyone know if the Brettonians were able to use magic during their crusade? I guess it is something that is not mentioned.

    It doesn't say if the Crusaders brought magic with them in any of the records I've come across. It just talks about how the Arabyans were beaten by the horde of Bretonnian and Imperial heavy cavalry, which they had no answer to (which is odd considering they live next to the Tomb Kings, but whatever).

    But if GW has any interest in keeping the lore consistent, then Old World wizards in Araby should have a much more difficult time working their magic in conventional ways.
    A simple way of representing it could be to just make Araby have weaker Winds of Magic than most other places, and give Arabyan Wizards bonuses when in desert environments.
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Draxynnic

    That doesn't really fit the lore, though. Nothing I've found says or implies that Arabyan wizards are weaker outside of Araby, and Arabyan magic seems to work just fine in other places as long as they bring some Djinns along (which they're very, VERY good at doing). Case in point: The Golden Magus (who's admittedly a Tzeentch worshipper, but from what we've seen he uses thoroughly Arabyan methods to work his magic).

    More importantly, I just don't see the need to nerf Arabyan wizards outside of Araby. For all I've waffled about how they're different, functionally they're exactly the same as other races' wizards. They just go about harnessing the Winds of Magic in a unique way.

    In terms of gameplay, I wouldn't penalize non-Arabyan wizards in Araby, since it would be frustrating to be hobbled with a handicap like that. Instead, I'd just give Arabyan wizards a small buff of some kind when fighting in Araby. It's a bit gamey, but it gets the point acros that Arabyan wizards have an advantage in Araby without hobbling anyone's wizards.

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,096Registered Users
    @Some_Scribe Mostly it's a matter of stopping "has means to function more effectively in regions of low magic" from turning into something that multiplies into something incredibly powerful if they're in a region of high magic. Having bonuses while in desert terrain (which I'm using to represent Araby and regions nearby, although I know there are desert areas elsewhere on the map), in my mind, represents that djinn are commonly available in the desert, while they're harder to find (or perhaps harder to bind) elsewhere.

    One other possible option could be for the strength of the Winds of Magic to have significantly reduced effect on Arabyan sorcerers. They're not particularly hindered by low Winds, but they're not benefited as much by high Winds either, since the magic available to them has more to do with the power of the djinns the sorcerer has bound than the strength of the ambient magic. That way they have a 'home field advantage' in regions of low magic - such as Araby - but can be easily out-magicked in regions where the Winds of Magic are strong.

    Extending the principle, one could even make djinn-power a resource that is conserved between battles: blow all your reserve in one battle, and the sorcerers involved will need to spend some time binding more djinn before they're ready to fight another.
  • ZerglesZergles Member Posts: 3,011Registered Users
    To point out something about all the lords/leaders looking old or whatever:

    In a lot of Arab/Persian cultures, the longer and greyer/ whiter your beard is, the more you are assumed to be wise and experienced at what you do. It's important to the point that people will dye their beards grey/white to look more wise.

    IRL Kebab lore for you.
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Posts: 3,061Registered Users
    edited April 2018
    LOL look forward to it :D

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • ThanquolThanquol Senior Member SkavenblightPosts: 2,018Registered Users
    I've always thought Mirage would make for a great summoning spell. It would summon a unit of Araby Spear/Swordmen that would have the same stats as their non summoned versions with the following exceptions:

    .They are unbreakable (like all other summoned units)
    .They "crumble" over time (like all other summoned units)
    .Their weapon strength is 0 (so they are unable to inflict any damage)
    "Fear me for I am Grey Seer Thanqol, Greatest TWW player in all of Skavendom."

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  • SherShahSuriSherShahSuri Junior Member Posts: 1,109Registered Users
    Oh my goodness... such... magnificent detail! where have you been all this time @Some_Scribe ! Well done sir, well done indeed!
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    EDIT: Jaffar's entry took too frickin' long to research and write, so I said screw it and broke the LLs section in two. Sue me.

    We're getting close to the end, guys! Hang in there!



    So, it's time to cover Araby's artillery and canon legendary lord (LL) options. The keyword there is "canon", as there are some Arabyan characters from the non-canon RPGs or the questionably canon Town Cryer. Covering characters from those sources is beyond the scope of my work, since I'm trying to stick to canon material as much as possible. If you're curious about them, you can find it in the link at the beginning of Post 3 - Monsters (bottom of pg. 1 of this thread).

    Part 5 - Artillery and Legendary Lords

    We'll begin by going over what the canon says about Arabyan artillery.

    ...

    That's it.



    Yeah, artillery is the one branch of Araby's military that never got any attention from GW. We have plenty of info about all the others, but artillery? Nothing. I haven't found anything in the non-canon sources either. (Granted, there's a LOT of those including WFRP splatbooks and the like, but among GW-published sources? Nada.)

    So I guess that's it for artillery then! On to LLs!



    Okay, okay! We'll see if we can use some logic to figure out what kinds of artillery Araby might have! (Geez, who knew Batman was such an Araby fan?)

    To start off, we know that Araby has gunpowder weapons. Looking at our only source for that, the Hero on Camel model...


    I just noticed that he's not actually holding the jezail, but he has it on some kind of stand resting on the Camel's back. Huh.

    ...the guy is using a funky jezail and has what looks like some kind of pistol on the Camel's side (or the side of his leg; it's kinda hard to tell if he's straddling the Camel or has both legs hanging off one side in a classic "mounted noblewoman" sit).

    Those gunpowder weapons are more primitive than the Empire's vast range of weapons or Tilea's lighter cannons, even if the pistol's shape reminds me of some sci-fi pistols I've seen. That being said, they still look like a step up from the most primitive European handguns in our world. Given that, I think it'd be reasonable to give Araby access to early cannons at some point (ideally a tier above the Old Worlders' basic cannons, so it feels like the Arabyans are slower to adopt gunpowder into their armies).


    Mons Meg, a real-life bombard built by Burgundy in 1449 and sent to Scotland as a gift. Arabyan cannons would probably be around this tech level if GW and CA decide to make them. Note that the cannonballs are made out of stone, not metal.

    Besides basic cannons, I'd love to see some Cannon Elephants just for nostalgia's sake, plus it would be cool in and of itself (see Post 3 - Monsters). It would make standard Arabyan artillery more unique as well: Yeah, an Arabyan cannon is worse all around compared to Old World guns, but that doesn't matter as much when it's mounted on a freaking Elephant (unless your opponent has lots of cannons themselves, but them's the shakes).

    Giant Ottoman-style siege bombards are a possibility, but they'd be of limited usefulness because they're stationary, take FOREVER to reload, and they're way too big to move and aim once they've been set up so they'd be pretty sucky outside of sieges. Plus, even if you found a way to make them work, like with Ogre crews or something, Araby's supposed to have inferior gunpowder weaponry to the Old World.


    In case you didn't know what I was talking about in the above paragraph, here's the Dardanelles Gun, a 16.8-ton bronze Ottoman siege bombard built in 1464 and last used in battle in 1807 against the British Royal Navy. The Ottoman sultan gave the cannon to Queen Victoria as a gift in 1866, and it's currently housed in Fort Nelson, Hampshire.

    In short, Arabyan artillery should be inferior to Tilean and especially Imperial artillery, but still gets the job done against artillery-poor races.

    Onwards to Araby's LLs!

    The Great Sultan of Al-haikk


    No GW art, so have a generic medieval Arabian-looking leader. Of course, given that we don't know what the Great Sultan's gender is, or even whether female rulers are possible in Araby, CA and GW could make them a Queen Mavia knockoff instead of a Saladin knockoff.

    I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: Warmaster Armies says that the Sultan of Al-haikk is also known as the Great Sultan, and "is the acknowledged overlord of all the other cities of Araby" (pg. 47). In other words, the Great Sultan is the Arabyan equivalent of Karl Franz, Louen Leoncoeur, and Settra the Imperishable. So the Great Sultan is a very straightforward and sensible choice for an Arabyan LL.

    Now, as we already know, most Sultans don't lead their armies, but not all of them are couch potatoes. The Great Sultan could easily be one of these more martial LLs. Besides, what with rampaging Tomb Kings, general chaos across the world, and moronic Bretonnian crusaders who probably don't even realize that Araby hasn't invaded the Old World in over a thousand years (Crusades happened in the 1400s IC, game starts in 2500-ish IC)...the Great Sultan has a pretty good reason to go "You know what? Screw this. Time to go kick some ***."

    He'd also be really easy to place on the Warhammer 2 Vortex map: Al-haikk is the provincial capital of the Coast of Araby province, and it lies several settlements away from any other LL start positions (not that CA has a problem putting LLs really close to each other but it's still nice). The land is currently occupied by Bretonnians, but it would be easy to remove them from Al-haikk.

    The only real problem with the Great Sultan is that I literally just told you everything we know about him (or her-we don't even know if Arabyan Sultans are gender-bound). There's no lore covering what the current Great Sultan is like, so CA and GW would have to create a design and backstory for him.

    I'd bet that GW and CA would base the Great Sultan on Saladin if he's a man. I mean, come on, we already have a Richard the Lionheart expy leading Bretonnia (yes, I'm aware Louen's not EXACTLY like Richard in every way but that isn't relevant so shut up), and Warhammer isn't known for being very subtle at hiding what its characters and races are based on. (AND I LOVE IT!)

    They could also make the Great Sultan a woman and go the Queen Mavia route with her lore, which would definitely be more unique than having yet another Middle Eastern ruler in a video game who's a Saladin clone. Plus it'd be a nice nod to Total War: Attila.


    Question: What do you do when you're the queen of an ancient Arab tribe in 378 CE, and your Eastern Roman overlords won't let you have an Orthodox bishop and want to shove an Arian one down your throat? Why, you rally other people who are sick of Roman crap, ride at the head of your army, and kick Eastern Rome's *** over and over in pitched battles until they cry uncle and give you the type of bishop you want! Huzzah! (None of the above guys are Mavia, by the way.)

    Whatever CA and GW do with the Great Sultan, they'll have to make up some backstory for him/her. But I definitely think the Great Sultan is a likely candidate, given what we know about the position and where they would start on the map.

    Moving on.

    Sultan of Lashiek/another city


    "Dude, don't look so down. You got ambushed. It could've happened to anyone." (No GW art, so have more historical art.)

    The Sultans of the three other great Arabyan cities (Martek, Copher, and Lashiek) could also be potential LLs. Like the Great Sultan, we know nothing about them other than their position, so these guys could be fleshed out into more militaristic rulers than the Arabyan norm.

    Of the three cities, I think Lashiek is most likely to get its Sultan made into a LL since Copher and Martek are minor settlements in the Coast of Araby province (which Al-haikk is the capital of), while Lashiek is the capital of the Land of Assassins province. (No, Lashiek isn't actually located in the Land of Assassins on official maps, but it's close enough that making it the capital works fine for gameplay's sake.) Like Al-haikk, Lashiek is currently occupied by Bretonnians on the Vortex map, so it making it playable wouldn't disrupt another LL's start position.

    The only possible issue with Lashiek is that it starts the game right next to Arkhan the Black on the Vortex map, but that would just make both campaigns more challenging. Plus, CA have started playable factions off next to each other in many other games, so Lashiek's location shouldn't be a problem.

    Of course, even if CA use Lashiek as a starting point for a LL, it doesn't necessarily need to be for the actual Sultan of Lashiek. They could use it for other LLs, such as...

    Jaffar, former Sultan of Araby


    See that face? That's the face of a guy who's going to invade a bunch of petty Estalian kingdoms because some sneaky ratmen told him that they were planning to attack a united Araby and overthrow him somehow. Clearly, this man was the most rational of leaders.

    Yep, the man you've all been waiting for. The one and only Sultan Jaffar; Djinn-summoning sorcerer, former ruler of Araby, and the guy who the Crusades overthrew. Jaffar is definitely the most prominent Arabyan ruler in the lore, even though he disappeared 999 years by the time TWW begins in 2500 IC. (By the way, I'll be referring to Jaffar as a sorcerer instead of a magician because the lore is very consistent in referring to Jaffar as a sorcerer. Not that there's a difference, mind you, but hey; it's in the lore.)

    Info about Jaffar is scattered in multiple sources, but the best canon accounts are found in these five armybooks, which my account of Jaffar's reign is primarily based on:
    -4th edition Skaven book (1996), pg. 22
    -5th edition Bretonnia book (1996), pg. 13
    -5th edition Dogs of War book (1998), pgs. 78, 85 & 89
    -6th edition Bretonnia book (2003), pgs. 33 & 39
    -7th edition Skaven book (2009), pgs. 24 & 31

    I'm listing these sources here because including them over and over in the story was annoying and made it look a lot messier.

    Jaffar was a powerful and charismatic Arabyan sorcerer living in the first half of the 1400s IC who was strong enough to summon Djinns. Whether he first gained power as ruler of a city-state or came from the tribes outside the cities isn't clear (thank you, vaguely worded lore!). What IS clear is that by around 1435 IC Jaffar had welded together a coalition of desert tribes and began conquering the Arabyan cities until they were all under his control.


    After Jaffar subjugated the last independent city, this picture appeared on his Twitter, along with the words "New guy in charge lol get rekt n00bs!1!"

    We don't really know what Jaffar was like as a ruler. The only clues we have don't paint a pretty picture: Jaffar is often referred to as a "despot", and towards the end of his rule (spoiler) a lot of his own people deserted him as they were supposedly sick of his "tyranny". We also have the Arabyan mercenaries who took part in the final campaign against the Corsairs on Sartosa, who, now that their bonds of loyalty to Jaffar were severed, "condemned [him] for his wicked dealings with evil [Djinn]." It's not much evidence to go off of, but all signs point to Jaffar not being a very nice ruler.

    During this time, Jaffar, who probably valued power more than common sense, made alliances with evil spirits/Djinn and the Skaven. He probably didn't tell other Arabyans about the Skaven, though, since Arabyans have pretty strong morals about certain things, and no one in their right mind likes or trusts the Skaven. In exchange for Warpstone, the Skaven spied for Jaffar and assassinated his rivals.

    The Skaven, however, weren't just interested in being Jaffar's secret agents. They were seeking a way to weaken the Old Worlders indirectly after their attempted conquest of the Empire in 1112 IC went horribly wrong (though, admittedly, still way better than any Vampire, Greenskin, or Chaos dude has ever come close to). In the power-mad and/or way too trusting Jaffar and his new Arabyan empire, the Skaven thought they'd found the perfect tool to weaken the humans to the north.

    Finally, after more than a decade of working with Jaffar, the Skaven's plans bore fruit when they convinced him that a group of Old Worlders was planning to attack him. That group was...

    The Estalians.

    The Skaven convinced Jaffar that the Estalians were planning to invade and conquer him.



    Okay, let's break down how ridiculous this is:

    Estalia is Warhammer's analogue to Spain and Portugal. In the games, it's represented as one faction for simplicity's sake, but in the lore Estalia is just a bunch of city-states and petty kingdoms constantly fighting each other and their Tilean neighbors. They aren't and, to my knowledge, have never been a unified political entity in any way except MAYBE in the ancient past way before the 1400s IC. Furthermore, while the Estalians definitely have some good troops at their disposal, with the 8th edition Monstrous Arcanum mentioning tercios and plate-clad Estalian knights on pg. 7, EVERY human race in Warhammer has some good troops. I can't think of one that doesn't.

    In short, the Estalians shouldn't have been, nor should they be, a credible threat to a large, strong nation like the Empire or Bretonnia. Or a united Araby. And yet, when the Skaven told Jaffar (who, remember, had been using Skaven as backstabby spies and assassins for years, and should've been at least a little aware of their untrustworthiness) that the Estalians were planning to attack him, Jaffar believed them (maybe).


    "Can't you tell-see how trustworthy we are by our looks?"

    In all fairness to Jaffar, there could've been other reasons involved in his decision-making. The Dogs of War book mentions that it's unclear whether Jaffar was inspired by "visions, delusions, genies [Djinn], ambition, greed, or the evil counsels of the Skaven,...". The Skaven books omit this, of course, and make it sound like the whole invasion was solely due to Skaven manipulation. Well, it's not the first time armybooks have purposely omitted information to make their race sound better. (Read the High Elf and Dark Elf books, and you'd swear that the two races have been fighting two different wars where each of them is winning.)

    So, ultimately, we're not 100% sure what Jaffar's primary reasons were for wanting to conquer Estalia. Maybe he was already looking to expand his domain when the Skaven told him that the Estalians were gonna attack him and he thought "Well, looks like I figured out who I'm gonna conquer next."

    Back to the story: Jaffar, thinking like a typical Total War player, decided that instead of waiting for this Estalian attack to hit him, he was going to strike them first and conquer them for good measure. So, in 1448 IC (or 470 BC if you're a Bretonnian), Jaffar led his vast armies into Estalia. "Despite determined resistance from the Estalians," the Arabyans prevailed. The great Estalian city-state of Magritta soon fell and the Arabyans advanced up the Estalian peninsula.

    Unfortunately for Jaffar, the news of Magritta's fall spread alarm throughout the Old World. The Estalians, their reason finally overcoming their pride, belatedly sent emissaries to King Louis the Righteous of Bretonnia and to the Empire, pleading for aid. Louis heeded their words, rallied knights from all over Bretonnia, and allowed knights from the Empire to pass through Bretonnian lands on their way to Estalia. Tilean mercenaries also joined the cause, adding some good infantry to the mix. Great crusading armies began to form to rescue Estalia from the Arabyan conquerors.


    "Uh oh, does Bretonnia have to choke a b****?"

    It was the Tileans, however, that handed Jaffar his first defeat. The Tilean city of Tobaro (yes, it's a Tilean city, not Estalian like the game would have you believe) is located on the eastern coast of the Estalian peninsula, and it provided a port from which Bretonnians and Tileans were sending aid to the beleaguered Estalians. Jaffar decided that this was definitely a bad thing, and he laid siege to it from both land and sea. But Tobaro has very strong fortifications, and any jokes about Italian soldiers in our world definitely don't apply to Tileans, so the city held out until relief came.

    (An interesting aside: In 1563 IC, more than a century after the Arabyans failed to take Tobaro, the city was overrun by Skaven forces. Perhaps the Skaven had convinced Jaffar to attack Tobaro, hoping he'd weaken it for them? We don't know, but whatever the case, two years later Tobaro's merchant prince came back with a mercenary army and a High Elf contingent. They stormed the city, retook it, then cleared the Skaven from the tunnels beneath the city in bitter fighting. Since then, most of the tunnels beneath Tobaro are walled off and a garrison of mercenaries is permanently on guard deep underground. Clearly, the Tileans know exactly how to deal with Skaven. Dwarfs looking to retake their holds; take notes.)

    Then the main crusader force entered Estalia. After a lot of hard fighting, the crusaders pushed Jaffar and the bulk of his forces back to Araby. Unfortunately for Araby, Jaffar's forces had ravaged Estalia during their invasion, and this p***ed off the crusaders something fierce. Many elected to follow Jaffar to Araby and end his reign themselves. (There was also a siege of the Arabyan garrison in Magritta, but since Jaffar wasn't involved in that, I'm not going over it here.)

    The campaign in Araby dragged on for years. The crusaders' progress was slow due to the desert heat and lack of water, and Jaffar's forces, being more lightly equipped and mobile compared to the crusaders, were able to avoid a pitched battle for quite some time. Gradually, though, the crusaders' grim determination began to tell against Jaffar's warriors, "many of whom were becoming tired of his tyranny. Several tribes simply deserted and disappeared into the vast desert to await the outcome."


    "Hey Henry! Do these Arabyans seem kinda...undead to you?" (Funnily enough, since going to Araby, Bretonnians have gone crusading in Nehekhara. As if the Tomb Kings didn't already have enough things to be mad about.)

    Finally, in 1451 IC, Jaffar and the crusaders had their final clash at the Battle of Al-haikk. For this fight Jaffar pulled out all the stops, summoning Djinn to fight alongside his troops. But it wasn't enough. The crusaders defeated his forces and his empire along with them. In the aftermath, to make a long story short, the victorious crusaders plundered Araby for a while, founded Antoch (Bretonnian) and Sudenburg (Imperial), then sailed home, leaving the Arabyans to pick up the pieces and rebuild their cities and lives.

    "But wait!" I hear you crying. "What happened to Jaffar after Al-haikk?"

    That's the interesting part: It doesn't say. I haven't found any mention of Jaffar's ultimate fate in ANY of the canon materials I've been going through. The Wiki claims that Jaffar died at Al-haikk, but it doesn't cite a source for that info, and I haven't been able to find anything. (If you're reading this and you have, PLEASE name the source and, if you have it, a page number!)


    I actually wanted to photoshop the Jaffar crazyface onto this guy, then I remembered that I have no idea how to use photoshop, so I gave up. Overachieving is overrated anyways. (No it's not. *sob*)

    So, ultimately, Jaffar disappeared after the Battle of Al-haikk, with no confirmed fate. If this is indeed true, it makes him much easier to add as an Arabyan LL than if he'd actually died at Al-haikk. (And even if he DID die somewhere, GW and CA could just say that the reports in the armybooks were mistaken, as they occasionally are.)

    There are ways Jaffar could've possibly stayed alive this whole time. Besides a magic MacGuffin, undeath, or evev daemonic pacts (which is always an option), the Skaven have a very interesting substance called skalm (7th edition Skaven armybook, pg. 109). It's nasty-smelling and expensive, but it can unnaturally accelerate the healing of wounds. More importantly, if used in massive quantities, it can supposedly prolong a Skaven's lifespan by a huge amount. This is really nice for Skaven, since old age for them is like 13 human years due to their super fast metabolism. Skalm is the best in-universe explanation for how the Lords of Decay have stayed alive for decades if not centuries in tip-top physical condition. (Seriously: Clan Mors' awesome leader, Clanlord Gnawdwell, is old as dirt, but he's still massive, muscular, and black-furred as if he was in his prime.

    We don't have much more info about skalm, but if it can make a Skaven live for centuries when they naturally don't live 15-20 years, imagine what skalm could do for a human...



    My thoughts exactly.

    Granted, we don't have any evidence that skalm is safe for humans, but by the same token, we don't have any evidence that it ISN'T safe. Plus, these games are already grossly violating Skaven lore by not having their magitech weapons catastrophically explode every now and then, which is an EXTREMELY prominent point in any lore involving Skaven tech and on the tabletop, so I don't see what's wrong with skalm working for a human.

    TO BE CONTINUED:
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    Also, we have records of powerful human wizards who study the Lore of Death that live very long lives. In particular, the ever-popular Empire character Elspeth von Draken from the 8th edition supplement Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos (2011, pg. 152-153) is a fantastic example of what a supremely powerful human wizard can achieve without resorting to Vampiric or Chaos bull****.


    Why, yes, that is a Carmine Dragon. There's a very, VERY good reason why she's so popular despite only appearing once.

    Elspeth is Magisterix of the Amethyst College of the Empire and arch-wizard of the Lore of Death. For three generations, her lonely tower has stood at the edge of the Gardens of Morr on the outskirts of Nuln. After exhausting herself in the final battle against Tamurkhan's Chaos horde, those that saw her "claimed she had faded to no more than an insubstantial shadow from her trials, and it was years before she was seen abroad again, her pale and youthful [and deathly and frikkin' creepy] aspect restored once more." She's so freakin' suffused with the Wind of Death that things that get a bonus against Undead get that same bonus against her, despite her explicitly not being undead.

    (And no, she's NOT a Lahmian. She's loyal to the Empire, and actually thwarted and slaughtered the Lahmians and other Vampires on many occasions. Plus, she's statted like a normal Imperial Wizard Lord but with 10 Leadership. I guess when you're so consumed by the Wind of Death, then crossing the final threshold doesn't worry you anymore.)


    Look at that fantastic sculpt. LOOK AT IT!

    Anyway, back to Jaffar: I doubt Jaffar would be as in-touch with the Wind of Death and Elspeth, but it's something else that could extend his life and keep him alive if he was powerful enough with it.

    As for the possible roles he could fill, Jaffar would obviously be a wizard LL. He'd also be a very good and fluffy rival to the other potential LLs especially the Great Sultan (new ruler driven by a love for his nation, or ex-ruler grasping for another chance at power).

    They could also do a lot with Jaffar's campaign mechanics: He could get bonus relations with Skaven, while also having the ultimate goal of getting revenge on them for manipulating him (or he could still be their pawn). Giving him bonuses to the Djinns he famously used would be another great idea. He definitely wouldn't get public order bonuses, given how the Arabyans regarded his rule last time.

    He's also not (to our knowledge) Undead or tied to Chaos, so he'd be a genuinely Arabyan LL, unlike some of the other candidates we'll be covering.


    OK, at this point, can we just acknowledge that Disney's Jaffar had a great visual design? Gods, his faces are just way too fun to not use for this!

    JAFFAR'S SECTION WAS TOO FREAKING LONG. PART 3 WILL COME BY WEDNESDAY.
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Posts: 3,061Registered Users
    :D I love the way you insert funny stuff amongst this otherwise serious lore

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    Part 5 - Arabyan LLs, section 2

    Last time, I got really carried away with Jaffar. This time, I'm going to keep the descriptions more contrite and to-the-point (sort of), with fewer side tangents in the middle of stories and descriptions.

    Al Muktar


    The man himself, straight from the 5th edition Dogs of War armybook (pg. 40).

    Werner Glook, better known as Al Muktar, is a blonde haired, blue eyed Imperial/Marienburger man and leader of the Desert Dogs, a Regiment of Renown from the 5th edition Dogs of War armybook (pgs. 40-41).

    His backstory is pretty fantastic, and is a great example of how much more fun Warhammer is when it actually remembers to have fun amidst all the grimdark. For that reason, here's a slightly truncated version for those who don't know:

    After being abused at an awful boarding school as a child, which toughened him, Werner hopped ship to Lashiek to fulfill his dreams of seeing exotic places and things. His naturally commanding aura and knowledge of the local language impressed the Arabyans. They wondered if Werner was in fact Al Muktar-the Chosen One-and they stopped trying to pick his pockets as a result of this.

    Werner knew nothing of Al Muktar or his growing fame in the city. Then one day, while he was travelling in a caravan to visit some ruins, desert bandits led by Sheikh Ahmed Shufti attacked him. Werner fought fiercely with his fists, but his companions ran off save for blind Ibn the beggar boy, who fled in the wrong direction by mistake. The bandits captured Werner and Ibn, and the Sheikh, impressed by his captive's pluck, "decided to stake out Werner in the desert and beat him to death slowly over several days" (pg. 40). The bandits would thus have some entertainment while they roasted a camel. They also kept Ibn around, for some reason.

    Werner endured three days of torture and no water without one cry of pain, and he only spoke to defy his captors and curse their closer relatives. "The Sheikh was impressed, and his men were getting a bit nervous. Surely no ordinary man could endure so much pain" (pg. 40). Of course, they didn't realize that Werner was totally used to this kind of treatment from his days at school. (Once, he'd even been shoved up the chimney for three days and was roasted/smoked when fires were lit under him.)

    During those days, Ibn told the bandits about the legend of Al Muktar and the various wonderous things that Werner had supposedly done in Lashiek. Also, things began mysteriously disappearing, mostly small valuable possessions. Ibn explained "that this was a sure sign that the bandits had fallen under Al Muktar's curse" (pg. 40). The bandits listened to Ibn, and their fear of their captive steadily grew.

    Werner could hear the bandits muttering about "Al Muktar", though he had no idea what it meant. So, figuring it was better than nothing, he shouted as loudly as he could: "'Al Muktarrrrr'". When the terrified bandits heard this, they threw themselves to the ground wailing and crying, "'Al Muktar...Al Muktar...forgive us'" (pg. 40).

    Needless to say Werner forgave them, became one of them (the life of a desert warrior sounded adventurous and exciting!), and abandoned his old name, clothes and habits. Werner fully became Al Muktar, and soon the bandits were known and feared throughout Araby as the "Desert Dogs".


    Al Muktar and the Desert Dogs in the present day, straight from pg. 41.

    So ferocious were they that the "Sheikh of Lashiek" (who was probably retconned into a Sultan 8 years later in Warmaster Armies) was forced to hire the Desert Dogs just to get them off his back. Soon enough the Desert Dogs became began working for other masters as an elite mercenary regiment of light cavalry. Led by Al Muktar, the Sheikh and blind Ibn, who bears the regiment's standard, the Desert Dogs have thundered into the fray with scimitars gleaming on countless battlefields, their battle cry of "Al Muktar!" striking terror into the hearts of foes across the world.

    The only remaining issue is that small valuables continue to disappear from the warriors' pockets and saddlebags. The warriors take this to mean that they must fight harder and more loyally to end the curse that their mistreatment of Al Muktar invoked!


    The box that the Desert Dogs came in. This one even has the plastic wrapping still on it.

    Fun story, and the Desert Dogs would make an excellent RoR for Tilea/Dogs of War (after all, they ARE mercenaries, but the real question here is: Is Al Muktar fit material for an Arabyan LL? He's one of the most fleshed-out canon characters associated with Araby, he has some unique magic items, and he's even a leader with followers.

    However, I don't think Al Muktar is a good candidate for an Arabyan LL. As much as I love his lore and character, he has some noteworthy issues with being a LL compared to other candidates:
    1. He only leads a mercenary regiment. They could have him start leading armies, but he also has no claims to be any kind of ruler in Araby, nor is there any indication that he would be interested in ruling when his lore stresses over and over that he lives for adventures.
    2. He may not even be Al Muktar yet. The lore about the Desert Dogs is based around the TT game's starting time of about 2522 IC, and these games start in 2500 IC. Granted, Karl Franz was still around and leading armies in 2522 after being crowned around 2500, so this isn't too hard to work around.
    3. He's not actually Arabyan. Not a dealbreaker, but it would still feel a bit weird having an Imperial be one of Araby's LLs.

    But that's ultimately my opinion, so make of it what you will. I hope the Desert Dogs get into the game before the end, and I wouldn't be mad or sad if Al Muktar became a LL. I just think there are options that make more sense from an in-universe standpoint.


    The Desert Dogs models, in all their metal glory.

    The Golden Magus


    His artwork from Dreadfleet. Again, PLEASE SHARE THE RULEBOOK IF YOU HAVE IT!

    Another common LL suggestion thrown around, and the commander of the Flaming Scimitar. (You know, that awesome ship with all the Djinns?)

    As with all Dreadfleet-related stuff, I have to resort to the Wiki due to being unable to find the game's rulebook anywhere. So, as much as it pains me to proceed without a source, let's see what he has to offer.

    The Golden Magus is a mysterious, elderly wizard that has always fascinated Arabyans. Rich beyond measure and eccentric in the extreme, the self-styled Sultan of the Seas has variously claimed to be a merchant prince, an exiled patriarch of the Colleges of Magic and even, at one point, the Gilded King of Copher reborn.

    (I guess we can add the Gilded King of Copher to the list of "canon Arabyan characters we know jack s*** about". Though he's probably dead, given how the Magus has claimed to be the Gilded King "reborn".)

    Regardless of the Golden Magus' true identity, his unpredictable and devious nature is infamous in the gambling dens and rott-houses of Sartosa. ("rott-houses"?)

    Appearance-wise, the Golden Magus takes great pains to look like a wise man rather than a warrior, with his one remaining eye ringed with kohl (an ancient eye cosmetic first used in our world over 5,000 years ago), robes of the finest embroidered silk, and powdered gold dusted on his skin. But make no mistake, when he decides to fight, the Magus can move with a speed that belies his age, and he wields an ever-burning blade that (according to the Wiki) is enchanted with a hundred fiery curses. But it's his many, MANY captured Djinns that he's able to summon that truly make the Golden Magus a force to be reckoned with.

    Oh, he's also a Tzeentch cultist.

    Yeah. In the Dreadfleet novelization, the Golden Magus is revealed to be a Tzeentch worshipper at the very end as the book's big plot twist. He essentially comes out as the overall winner of the events in Dreadfleet, but just when you think we might have an awesome story WITHOUT Chaos shoving its face into the mix like it does with so very, very much in this universe, PSYCHE! Chaos won the grand prize!

    As a LL, the Golden Magus would definitely be a wizard and have bonuses to Djinn and probably some Chaos stuff (corruption, perhaps?). Also, contrary to what some people have said in other threads, CA definitely have the rights to use material from Dreadfleet. They're already included direct references to Count Noctilus and the Galleon's Graveyard:



    This, to me, indicates that CA has the license to the whole Warhammer Fantasy IP, not just the main tabletop game stuff. Dreadfleet is part of the IP and they've used lore from it already, so there's no good reason why they couldn't include the Golden Magus in the game.

    But should the Golden Magus be a LL for Araby? Lore-wise, it'd be a bit awkwardm=, as he really doesn't lead armies or rule territory or do anything other than sail around the world, and since his background is so purposefully mysterious, we don't know if he's even a leader or ruler at all. Oh, and there's also the issue that he's a Tzeentch cultist. The Arabyans have never been said or implied to be Chaos worshippers in anything I've read, unlike Morathi and the Dark Elves, who at least had connections to Chaos in older lore.* Plus, if the Tileans can regard Chaos as a very distant threat in their lore, I'm pretty sure Araby would be even more in the "doesn't have Chaos problems much" camp due to their distance from the poles.

    He's still a cool character, though, and if he's not a LL, I think Araby should have an event that involves him. Perhaps something akin to the Dark Emissary event in Game 1, where you can either send the Golden Magus away or accept and gain an immediate benefit (at a cost).

    *(There is a question I've noticed of whether or not the Djinns that Araby uses are actually daemons. Warmaster Armies says that they are daemons on pg. 47, and the Arabyans just think they're spirits. But Dreadfleet, which is more recent and goes into MUCH more detail about Djinn, simply calls them elemental spirits. You'd think that Dreadfleet would mention such an important detail, but it doesn't, and since more recent lore trumps older lore, Djinn are most likely elemental spirits.

    (Interestingly, the 8th edition Daemons of Chaos armybook (2012) mentions on pg. 18 that a Lord of Change once possessed an Arabyan wizard and used his body to "[influence] the magical practices in Araby to the greater glory of Tzeentch. The land will forever bear the stain of this corruption." But it doesn't say more than that, so we don't have any idea how the daemon influenced Arabyan magic. Maybe he taught the Arabyans to bind Djinns, or maybe he did something else. Or maybe the book is full of s***, since this IS a Lord of Change we're talking about, and they're not exactly known for being truthful.)

    And now for some other Arabyan characters who don't need freaking essays written about them:

    Tazadis of Araby

    A wizard who worked as Court Alchemist to the Council of Tears, republican ruling body of the Tilean city of Vedenza. (Don't bother looking for it on a map; Tilea has tons of city-states that are too minor to be of any notice outside of their one story of relevance.)

    The Tilean chronicler Orsini Sardus mentions Tazadis while covering Vedenza's war with the neighboring Estalian kingdom of Larhgoz in the Monstrous Arcanum. When Larhgoz invaded, Tazadis was given one of Kadon's binding scrolls and sent north into the mountains "to seek out the Manticores and bind them to our cause" (pg. 7). This he did, and he came back with the Manticores during the climactic battle with the Estalians to butcher some Skin Wolves that were busy wrecking Sartosan cutthroats. (Just like the Tileans of Vedenza, the Estalians of Larhgoz had bound some less-than-savory creatures to their cause.)

    However, after the Tileans won the battle, the Skaven, who'd orchestrated the war, attacked Vedenza. Despite the Tileans' practiced methods for stopping or limiting Skaven agents and assassins (the author in particular left his intended assassin nailed to the door of his tower house), one of them managed to kill Tazadis (pg. 8).

    That being said, we don't actually know when Tazadis died: The account doesn't use a common dating system like the Imperial Calendar, but a local one unique to Vedenza. (The war occurred in the year 104 of the Second Republic.) He was certainly dead by the time of the tabletop game, but TWW takes place over 20 years before then, so it's totally possible that Tazadis is still alive at the time of these games.

    That's all we know about Tazadis. Making him a LL would be kinda a stretch, but he exists, he's a wizard, and he's likely pretty tough and trustworthy since the Tileans gave him a priceless magical artifact and sent him to go bind Manticores for them. Moving on.

    Suliman le Saracen

    Brave Arabyan warrior and best buddy of Odo d'Outremer during the time of the Crusades over 900 years ago.

    Dead and gone, moving on. (Also, the term "Saracen" hasn't been used to describe Arabyans since.)

    Fatandira

    A character from the 2nd edition RPG, so non-canon. I'm only mentioning her because she has a Wiki page, and she's a great example of why I'm very wary about relying solely on Wikis for info. If CA and GW want to give Araby a female LL, they can, again, make the Great Sultan into a Queen Mavia knockoff (which would probably be cooler in any case).

    That's it for Arabyan LLs.


    Sultan Greasus has decided to ditch his Gnoblar chair in favor of something more stylish/murderiffic.
    Also, the paint job on the cloth is freaking excellent. 10/10 would buy!


    The next post will discuss units that I missed in previous sections. It'll be up by Sunday. Until then, godspeed.

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