Done with CA bashers

julius_civilis

Go to any random video on YouTube or even any topic on this forum and you'll see somebody say this game is a rip off or saying it is Attila dlc. It is an insult to the hard work this team has put into the game. I do not understand any of this. People are writing this game off because the game has the same engine as Attila. Atilla was not terrible at all, sure the battles were a bit clunky however that's pretty common in the total war genre, even in warhammer which people are using as a comparison now for some reason. Warhammer has enough buggy things and I'll take Attila's matched combat over warhammers boring hack n' slash any day of the week. To say this game is a simple re-skin of Attila is laughable to me, Charlemagne was a reskin, Age of Charlemagne was received well over all. The only thing which will be simmilar to Attila are the battle mechanics and the animations, and I'm sure there will be some things that are tweaked and some animations added etc.

I think the game is shaping up to be something special for veterans of the total war genre and for newcomers alike. The campaign is shaping up to be very interesting in my opinion. The battles in Attila are not great it's true. But in my opinion they look stunning visually and the exagerration of some people on these forums rather annoys me. For all of you who haven't played Attila or Rome 2, the battles are a bit clunky but nothing gamebreaking at all so don't believe the CA bashers. Also they are adding a lot of great historical settlements, that's a huge pro to me which outweighs a lot of cons.

Ever since the release of rome 2 there has been a consistent group of people bashing anything CA wanted to release. I remember even warhammer 1 was hated on before release, warhammer 2 also as people found it to be DLC (again). These games are now seen as some of the best CA has ever produced.
You people need to stop and think for a second. CA is a company they need to earn money while delivering games which are made with a lot of passion and skill. They probaply went for the Attila engine because it's the most recent historical game, they can't go for rome 2 because that engine is worse than Attila's and with any engine before that the graphics would be outdated or the mechanics wouldn't fit the era. It is a Saga game and it's not full priced, but it is still a FULL game made on an older engine, so what? Also this is the moment for historical fans to support our genre in total war. I'm not saying you MUST buy this game but if you're doubting I think you should buy it. The warhammer series is making tremendous sales for CA, us historical fans need to show that there's still a big market for historical total war games.

I'm convinced this game will be great, for anybody who enjoyed Attila at least..
So if you're doubting to buy this don't believe all the hate there are a lot of people who loved Attila too.

Mattzo

I agree completely.

But one rule for life: Never, ever, ever, under any circumstances, read YouTube comments.*

*Unless it's for song lyrics or time stamps. But if it's not in the top 2 comments, don't bother.

CnConrad

Op you are suffering from selection bias. By no means are the majority of forum posts or YouTubers negative about this game.


Many of the complaints are entirely valid. A person can have a complaint yet not be negative.

Read the first 5 pages of new posts tally them up into positive, negative or neutral and you will find that negative does not win.

fredericmeyern

Most annoying is the "gamer shaming".
Anyone spending their own money or time is a "blinkered fanboy, who will eat up the *expletives*"

"this should be a DLC for Attila", followed by accusations of "milking".

Because obviously, everyone has a few thousand quid to drop on the latest computer hardware, and already owns Attila + DLC's. Everyone also plays the game using exploits and rush clicking their way to the fastest victory possible, while complaining and fast clicking through any features that slow down the march to making the map one colour. Then, if said things are removed, things streamlined to suit their playstyle; complain that the game is being dumbed down.

Conclusion: Many have no idea what they want.
Complexity (extra clicks) for the sake of it ≠ depth.
And most people who do enjoy the games, do not play it to "beat it" and get to the end as fast as possible.

YouTube is a poor representation on the whole.

Bolshevik

The #1 complaint I keep seeing about ToB is that its going to be a reskin of Attila. I'll admit, I shared this concern at first but as I'v seen more and more gameplay and content I can confidently say that in ToB we will be a $40 game that is worth every penny.

Most of the other complaints I see are about minor things ranging from a removal of the ambush stance to the fact that you can't select the exact number of slaves you want to trade at the market when playing a viking faction. Yes, its sad since we all play Total War games to trade slaves.

julius_civilis

CnConrad said:

Op you are suffering from selection bias. By no means are the majority of forum posts or YouTubers negative about this game.


Many of the complaints are entirely valid. A person can have a complaint yet not be negative.

Read the first 5 pages of new posts tally them up into positive, negative or neutral and you will find that negative does not win.

I never talked about a majority?
It's just a fact that every post thrones of britannia related has a few nut heads who want to simply bash the game.

I think constructive critisism is great and can make games better however that's not what is happening in the majority of the comments I'm talking about. They offer 0 explanation and just simply state the game is going to be bad because based on Attila.
Also you don't add anything by copy pasting what others say, I see that happening a lot on these forums.

julius_civilis

fredericmeyern said:

Most annoying is the "gamer shaming".
Anyone spending their own money or time is a "blinkered fanboy, who will eat up the *expletives*"

"this should be a DLC for Attila", followed by accusations of "milking".

Because obviously, everyone has a few thousand quid to drop on the latest computer hardware, and already owns Attila + DLC's. Everyone also plays the game using exploits and rush clicking their way to the fastest victory possible, while complaining and fast clicking through any features that slow down the march to making the map one colour. Then, if said things are removed, things streamlined to suit their playstyle; complain that the game is being dumbed down.

Conclusion: Many have no idea what they want.
Complexity (extra clicks) for the sake of it ≠ depth.
And most people who do enjoy the games, do not play it to "beat it" and get to the end as fast as possible.

YouTube is a poor representation on the whole.

That's exactly what I'm talking about!
Those people are a danger to the franchise you can see it happen in other franchises such as call of duty where the developers try to listen to every little complaint of the fans... call of duty became a disaster because of them.

FranzSaxon

Lol. Little exaggerated, but I get what you mean. Same time, people can have concerns.

Bolshevik

FranzSaxon said:

Lol. Little exaggerated, but I get what you mean. Same time, people can have concerns.

If ToB and future historical titles are not successful I feel they could decrease quantity and quality of historical titles in favor of fantasy world ones.

FranzSaxon

Bolshevik said:

FranzSaxon said:

Lol. Little exaggerated, but I get what you mean. Same time, people can have concerns.

If ToB and future historical titles are not successful I feel they could decrease quantity and quality of historical titles in favor of fantasy world ones.

You are so right. I'm so scared of this. I have been for so long actually. It WILL happen. If people don't buy the historicals, this series is over as we love it. It will be Narnia: total war and Hogwarts harry potter: total war. **** creeps

Bolshevik

FranzSaxon said:

Bolshevik said:

FranzSaxon said:

Lol. Little exaggerated, but I get what you mean. Same time, people can have concerns.

If ToB and future historical titles are not successful I feel they could decrease quantity and quality of historical titles in favor of fantasy world ones.

You are so right. I'm so scared of this. I have been for so long actually. It WILL happen. If people don't buy the historicals, this series is over as we love it. It will be Narnia: total war and Hogwarts harry potter: total war. **** creeps

I'm going to try getting some of my friends who play TW's to buy the game, hopefully there will be a decent sizee community for ToB.

Hugothester

Bolshevik said:

The #1 complaint I keep seeing about ToB is that its going to be a reskin of Attila. I'll admit, I shared this concern at first but as I'v seen more and more gameplay and content I can confidently say that in ToB we will be a $40 game that is worth every penny.

Most of the other complaints I see are about minor things ranging from a removal of the ambush stance to the fact that you can't select the exact number of slaves you want to trade at the market when playing a viking faction. Yes, its sad since we all play Total War games to trade slaves.

After playing more or less 30h of Thrones I can confirm you it is not a simple reskin. The battles might look similar, but they play completly different, units react faster, cavalry works way better and battles are longer in general.
The campaign also feels absolutely different, AI is way better, diplomacy does work (wow) and big factions are not destroyed in the first few turns, you will even see AI factions do some events that a player can do if playing with that faction (I cannot yet ellaborate on this since I don´t know if I can talk about specific events).
So yeah, game is fun as hell for 40€

LESAMA

Hugothester, I’m jealous man.... Do you post on YouTube? If so what channel?

Hugothester

LESAMA said:

Hugothester, I’m jealous man.... Do you post on YouTube? If so what channel?

Yep I do, I have done a few videos of Thrones of Britannia, here is my channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/hugothester

Only issue is that the channel is in Spanish xD
I believe other english speaking youtubers such as lionheart and jackiefish are doing videos of the game as well. Though for the moment we can only do a few videos we can play it as muchas we want and I can confirm the game is great for history titles fans. It might look like attila but it feels like a whole new game.

kuryakin

Hugothester said:

LESAMA said:

Hugothester, I’m jealous man.... Do you post on YouTube? If so what channel?

Yep I do, I have done a few videos of Thrones of Britannia, here is my channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/hugothester

Only issue is that the channel is in Spanish xD
I believe other english speaking youtubers such as lionheart and jackiefish are doing videos of the game as well. Though for the moment we can only do a few videos we can play it as muchas we want and I can confirm the game is great for history titles fans. It might look like attila but it feels like a whole new game.

Thats great to hear. Hopefully all the TW fans and many more end up buying ToB. Shudder to think that TW historicals could make way for fantasy.... brrrrrrr...

LESAMA

I’ve seen those but it sounds like you had a lot of fun with the game. Perhaps you could make an English one with the highlights of the Spanish version? Very curious about you’re more in-depth findings. Also do you know when you are allowed to show more footage?

fredericmeyern

kuryakin said:

Hugothester said:

LESAMA said:

Hugothester, I’m jealous man.... Do you post on YouTube? If so what channel?

Yep I do, I have done a few videos of Thrones of Britannia, here is my channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/hugothester

Only issue is that the channel is in Spanish xD
I believe other english speaking youtubers such as lionheart and jackiefish are doing videos of the game as well. Though for the moment we can only do a few videos we can play it as muchas we want and I can confirm the game is great for history titles fans. It might look like attila but it feels like a whole new game.

Thats great to hear. Hopefully all the TW fans and many more end up buying ToB. Shudder to think that TW historicals could make way for fantasy.... brrrrrrr...

Was pretty concerned about this myself.
What's more, and going back to the OP's point; it does seem as though some out there, are intentionally trying to sink the game before it launches. When it's the same names cropping up over and over again, telling people not to buy, it's gone beyond a personal opinion, and into the realm of a personal agenda.

I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, nor do I care for any of the drama, but there are clearly a few out there with an agenda that is against the company.

Hugothester

LESAMA said:

I’ve seen those but it sounds like you had a lot of fun with the game. Perhaps you could make an English one with the highlights of the Spanish version? Very curious about you’re more in-depth findings. Also do you know when you are allowed to show more footage?

For the moment I can´t, we have limitations on the number of videos and length of them for the moment and unfortunately I do not know yet when we will be able to show more footage, but I guess it will be soon.
But if you have any specific question just ask and I will do my best to try to answer within the limits of the guidelines.

fredericmeyern said:

kuryakin said:

Hugothester said:

LESAMA said:

Hugothester, I’m jealous man.... Do you post on YouTube? If so what channel?

Yep I do, I have done a few videos of Thrones of Britannia, here is my channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/hugothester

Only issue is that the channel is in Spanish xD
I believe other english speaking youtubers such as lionheart and jackiefish are doing videos of the game as well. Though for the moment we can only do a few videos we can play it as muchas we want and I can confirm the game is great for history titles fans. It might look like attila but it feels like a whole new game.

Thats great to hear. Hopefully all the TW fans and many more end up buying ToB. Shudder to think that TW historicals could make way for fantasy.... brrrrrrr...

Was pretty concerned about this myself.
What's more, and going back to the OP's point; it does seem as though some out there, are intentionally trying to sink the game before it launches. When it's the same names cropping up over and over again, telling people not to buy, it's gone beyond a personal opinion, and into the realm of a personal agenda.

I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, nor do I care for any of the drama, but there are clearly a few out there with an agenda that is against the company.

I agree with you, it has been like this since Rome 2, I personally feel that, wth the exception of Rome 2, all total war games have improved upon the previous one, I am very happy overall with the direction of the franchise.

julius_civilis

Hugothester could you maybe give some info about AI behaviour? Especially campaign AI.

LESAMA

Thanks Hugo! My main concern would be around campaign ai behaviour and how it handles the non garrison minor settlements. Both from a defensive as well from an offensive perspective. I would had it if the ai would constantly attack with small armies consisting of one unit sacking all my minor settlements while there doesn’t seem to be an army limit.

Commissar_G

CA goes through ups and downs like clockwork.

Do something great > Fans love them > Do something fail > Fans get bitter > repeat process.

This has been happening since E:TW. We're on a bitter phase at the moment.

alstl

julius_civilis said:

Go to any random video on YouTube or even any topic on this forum and you'll see somebody say this game is a rip off or saying it is Attila dlc. It is an insult to the hard work this team has put into the game. I do not understand any of this. People are writing this game off because the game has the same engine as Attila. Atilla was not terrible at all, sure the battles were a bit clunky however that's pretty common in the total war genre, even in warhammer which people are using as a comparison now for some reason. Warhammer has enough buggy things and I'll take Attila's matched combat over warhammers boring hack n' slash any day of the week. To say this game is a simple re-skin of Attila is laughable to me, Charlemagne was a reskin, Age of Charlemagne was received well over all. The only thing which will be simmilar to Attila are the battle mechanics and the animations, and I'm sure there will be some things that are tweaked and some animations added etc.

I think the game is shaping up to be something special for veterans of the total war genre and for newcomers alike. The campaign is shaping up to be very interesting in my opinion. The battles in Attila are not great it's true. But in my opinion they look stunning visually and the exagerration of some people on these forums rather annoys me. For all of you who haven't played Attila or Rome 2, the battles are a bit clunky but nothing gamebreaking at all so don't believe the CA bashers. Also they are adding a lot of great historical settlements, that's a huge pro to me which outweighs a lot of cons.

Ever since the release of rome 2 there has been a consistent group of people bashing anything CA wanted to release. I remember even warhammer 1 was hated on before release, warhammer 2 also as people found it to be DLC (again). These games are now seen as some of the best CA has ever produced.
You people need to stop and think for a second. CA is a company they need to earn money while delivering games which are made with a lot of passion and skill. They probaply went for the Attila engine because it's the most recent historical game, they can't go for rome 2 because that engine is worse than Attila's and with any engine before that the graphics would be outdated or the mechanics wouldn't fit the era. It is a Saga game and it's not full priced, but it is still a FULL game made on an older engine, so what? Also this is the moment for historical fans to support our genre in total war. I'm not saying you MUST buy this game but if you're doubting I think you should buy it. The warhammer series is making tremendous sales for CA, us historical fans need to show that there's still a big market for historical total war games.

I'm convinced this game will be great, for anybody who enjoyed Attila at least..
So if you're doubting to buy this don't believe all the hate there are a lot of people who loved Attila too.

I agree. I believe it comes from people who wanted a different era but you can't make everybody happy. It clearly isn't an Attila dlc.

I am also tired of the drama queens.

wil07012

Yeah there is a lot of complaining about the game being a 'reskin'. It's probably about as much of a reskin as Medieval 2 was from Rome 1. Slightly updated game engine, new campaign mechanics, new factions, etc...

As far as fantasy goes I can't really see CA abandoning historical games completely. Most likely they will just continue to make fantasy and historical games side by side since they seem to have enough teams to handle content for both.

FranzSaxon

wil07012 said:

Yeah there is a lot of complaining about the game being a 'reskin'. It's probably about as much of a reskin as Medieval 2 was from Rome 1. Slightly updated game engine, new campaign mechanics, new factions, etc...

As far as fantasy goes I can't really see CA abandoning historical games completely. Most likely they will just continue to make fantasy and historical games side by side since they seem to have enough teams to handle content for both.

I hope your right. People, please buy thrones. Its more than enough for the money. I got it for 35 dollars when I preordered. 35. That's literally a meal out. And ill get endless replayability like I do with every TW game. That's why I made a thread last night of appreciation to CA. The negativity is getting pervasive. Yea I have concerns I bitch about, but bashing is another level. I always make sure I say I love the content and game.

FranzSaxon

Bolshevik said:

FranzSaxon said:

Bolshevik said:

FranzSaxon said:

Lol. Little exaggerated, but I get what you mean. Same time, people can have concerns.

If ToB and future historical titles are not successful I feel they could decrease quantity and quality of historical titles in favor of fantasy world ones.

You are so right. I'm so scared of this. I have been for so long actually. It WILL happen. If people don't buy the historicals, this series is over as we love it. It will be Narnia: total war and Hogwarts harry potter: total war. **** creeps

I'm going to try getting some of my friends who play TW's to buy the game, hopefully there will be a decent sizee community for ToB.

Good man. Lets spread the word.

RolloSmerson

FranzSaxon said:

wil07012 said:

Yeah there is a lot of complaining about the game being a 'reskin'. It's probably about as much of a reskin as Medieval 2 was from Rome 1. Slightly updated game engine, new campaign mechanics, new factions, etc...

As far as fantasy goes I can't really see CA abandoning historical games completely. Most likely they will just continue to make fantasy and historical games side by side since they seem to have enough teams to handle content for both.

I hope your right. People, please buy thrones. Its more than enough for the money. I got it for 35 dollars when I preordered. 35. That's literally a meal out. And ill get endless replayability like I do with every TW game. That's why I made a thread last night of appreciation to CA. The negativity is getting pervasive. Yea I have concerns I bitch about, but bashing is another level. I always make sure I say I love the content and game.

I see where you coming from, however, if there was no complains and unhappy posts release would be next week with all of the deficiencies. I think CA should be happy that community is helping them to fix things that are not up to standard. Complaining just for the sake of complaining is disgusting. Constructive criticism is good.

FranzSaxon

RolloSmerson said:

FranzSaxon said:

wil07012 said:

Yeah there is a lot of complaining about the game being a 'reskin'. It's probably about as much of a reskin as Medieval 2 was from Rome 1. Slightly updated game engine, new campaign mechanics, new factions, etc...

As far as fantasy goes I can't really see CA abandoning historical games completely. Most likely they will just continue to make fantasy and historical games side by side since they seem to have enough teams to handle content for both.

I hope your right. People, please buy thrones. Its more than enough for the money. I got it for 35 dollars when I preordered. 35. That's literally a meal out. And ill get endless replayability like I do with every TW game. That's why I made a thread last night of appreciation to CA. The negativity is getting pervasive. Yea I have concerns I bitch about, but bashing is another level. I always make sure I say I love the content and game.

I see where you coming from, however, if there was no complains and unhappy posts release would be next week with all of the deficiencies. I think CA should be happy that community is helping them to fix things that are not up to standard. Complaining just for the sake of complaining is disgusting. Constructive criticism is good.

Yeah ur completely right. Perfectly said.

Hugothester

julius_civilis said:

Hugothester could you maybe give some info about AI behaviour? Especially campaign AI.

It works pretty well, I was surprised by 2 things mainly:
1- How well it handles the new recruitment system (I expected it to march and attack without waiting for units to replenish). The AI knows it has to wait and replenish before moving, it knows how to handle the new suplies system (has anyone talked about this?) and if you attack it while their units are not yet fully replenished it will respond, and not stay there not moving waiting to replenish.
2- Events also affect the AI, and it can profit from them. For example, if you have an event where you can annex yourself a territory by diplomacy, the AI can do the same, and sometimes historical events will pop up with factions uniting, a civil war going on in Ireland etc... This is not like Empire tw, where they told you about a particular historical event but it was not really happening on the campaign map. If the event tells you that factions in Irland are fighting among themselves in a civil war, they are REALLY fighting there. I checked.

LESAMA said:

Thanks Hugo! My main concern would be around campaign ai behaviour and how it handles the non garrison minor settlements. Both from a defensive as well from an offensive perspective. I would had it if the ai would constantly attack with small armies consisting of one unit sacking all my minor settlements while there doesn’t seem to be an army limit.

You are welcomed! Good question, the AI won´t spam small armies to attack your settlements, every army needs a general, and the generals system we have since Rome 2 seems to have solved the small armies spam issue, so you can rest assured on that side.
That being said, the AI will try to raze all the small settlements it can raze before going for you if their army is inferior in number to yours (they are probably trying to destroy your economy so you cannot maintain your army). In case their army is mightier, they will directly try to attack your main army instead of going for small settlements.
In what regards defense/attack, the AI will only try to defend small settlements if they have spare armies, which happens quite late-game due to the recruitment system. If you attack their small settlements the same rule applies, if their army is stronger they will go out and attack you, but if their army is weaker they will stay behind the walls of a walled city until they have no other option but to go out.

Two more things:
1- I have seen a few times the AI try to lure you with one small army, when you follow it with your main army they will use a second hidden (and much bigger) army to pass through you and get to your undefended cities. I do not know if this is intentional, but it felt as if I was fighting a human player in this particular case.
2- You will not see 20 stacks armies as often as you did in other games. Probably due to the size of the territory (=gameplay reasons) or historical reasons. Armies are very expensive to maintain, the poll of elite units takes time to recharge and generate new units and newly recruited units take a lot to replenish. This makes a full 20 stacks army VERY powerful, if you get it early game you will likely be more powerful than 90% of the factions. That being said, I do not think it is ideal, since you will likely only be able to maintain that 20 stacks units and one more small army, so if you go to war you will leave all your territory exposed.

In a nutshell, loved the campaign, sorry for the post being so long and I hope I answered your questions

LESAMA

Thanks! Very helpful and it sounds like the campaign ai and how it handels the campaign mechanics is coming along pretty well. Supply hasn’t been discussed yet I believe. Perhaps you can elaborate on that a little further. Anyway thanks again and much appreciated!

Hunor

Guys, no reaktion about NEW gameplay stream (Twitch channel) ???????

here:
https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Total War Saga: Thrones of Britannia/

Hunor

Hi Guys. no reaktion about NEW gameplay streamed gameplay ?? (Twitch)

h_ttps://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Total%20War%20Saga%3A%20Thrones%20of%20Britannia/videos/all