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Underway Stance needs a little work

sccrboi01sccrboi01 Senior MemberPosts: 329Registered Users
Does anyone have any issues with this stance and the races that can use it?

My experience has not been a happy one and I think it needs to be reworked slightly. I will give you an example, I was playing a Dawi campaign last night as Grombrindal, the vampires of course started to dominate and basically blitzkrieged south into the badlands and mountains and destroyed the greenies.

I decided enough is enough, woodelves factions are going against them in the west, time for pressure in the east. They besiege Karaz with 3 stacks and I move Grombrindal in underway stance for support to move faster. The vampires notice me and send 3 stacks to attack him this is where I start to get upset.

The battle is not in the underway for some reason.....and for that matter I honestly think the underway stance should work like beastpath/ambush stance, races that don't use the underway can't see you on the map , only other races that use it can see you and if indeed you are engaged, which I think top dwellers should not be able to engage you in that stance, the battle should take place in the under way.

Basically by being engaged and then pulled to the surface I am most likely going to lose the battle, I retreat, and for some reason I am no longer in the underway stance....go figure. It makes no logical sense to me.....

Opinions on the matter anyone?
Most peoples' response to Rome II expansion...."Please Sir may I have some more"......

My Massagetae, battered and bloody, but undefeated in the field! True masters of battle :)! Masters of campaigning on the other hand, unfortunately not.......:(

Comments

  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Seems like a bug... if youre in tunnel stance all battles are tunnels. Ive attacked many factions in tunnel stance to force tunnel battles.
  • sccrboi01sccrboi01 Senior Member Posts: 329Registered Users

    Seems like a bug... if youre in tunnel stance all battles are tunnels. Ive attacked many factions in tunnel stance to force tunnel battles.

    I will double check after work and make sure, maybe it was the 2nd battle that was after I retreated, but it shouldn't throw me out of the stance if I retreat.

    But I truly believe a faction like the VC who do not use the underway should be able to engage me like normal, and I like the idea that the stance should hide you from factions who do have access to the stance as well.
    Most peoples' response to Rome II expansion...."Please Sir may I have some more"......

    My Massagetae, battered and bloody, but undefeated in the field! True masters of battle :)! Masters of campaigning on the other hand, unfortunately not.......:(
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    sccrboi01 said:

    Seems like a bug... if youre in tunnel stance all battles are tunnels. Ive attacked many factions in tunnel stance to force tunnel battles.

    I will double check after work and make sure, maybe it was the 2nd battle that was after I retreated, but it shouldn't throw me out of the stance if I retreat.

    But I truly believe a faction like the VC who do not use the underway should be able to engage me like normal, and I like the idea that the stance should hide you from factions who do have access to the stance as well.
    Being invisible in tunnel makes sense but it would just allow the ai to derp all over the player it would be horrible... its actually so bad chasing dwarfs and orcs as it is when they jump over mountains and stuff and the mountain terrain slows you down so you can never catch them then they tunnel past you and sack a town you just got to level 3 and it causes a rebellion and then they run away... lol

    So game wise i think its fine tbh and you never retreat as dwarf!
  • sccrboi01sccrboi01 Senior Member Posts: 329Registered Users

    sccrboi01 said:

    Seems like a bug... if youre in tunnel stance all battles are tunnels. Ive attacked many factions in tunnel stance to force tunnel battles.

    I will double check after work and make sure, maybe it was the 2nd battle that was after I retreated, but it shouldn't throw me out of the stance if I retreat.

    But I truly believe a faction like the VC who do not use the underway should be able to engage me like normal, and I like the idea that the stance should hide you from factions who do have access to the stance as well.
    Being invisible in tunnel makes sense but it would just allow the ai to derp all over the player it would be horrible... its actually so bad chasing dwarfs and orcs as it is when they jump over mountains and stuff and the mountain terrain slows you down so you can never catch them then they tunnel past you and sack a town you just got to level 3 and it causes a rebellion and then they run away... lol

    So game wise i think its fine tbh and you never retreat as dwarf!
    never say never......sometimes you gotta be tactical, if they attack you with 3 stacks and after the retreat they can only hit you with 2....you made the right decision lol
    Most peoples' response to Rome II expansion...."Please Sir may I have some more"......

    My Massagetae, battered and bloody, but undefeated in the field! True masters of battle :)! Masters of campaigning on the other hand, unfortunately not.......:(
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 5,831Registered Users
    The only problem I have with the special movement stances is that the fact that so many have and can use it exactly anywhere on the map it makes campaign map chokepoints half meaningless. Take Helmgart. The only race not in its immediate vicinity able to dance around it is the Skaven and the only race it can reasonably hold back is the Bretonnians.

    Solution? Predetermined ”roads” you can take with any one of the stances. But that obviously isnt changing.

    Also yesterday I attacked a Crooked Moon army in Underway stance and it retreated. I thought that was supposed to be impossible with the stance?
    Lord of the Undermountain
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    I would of loved a age of wonders style tunneling system in game, basically double layered map for some factions
  • sccrboi01sccrboi01 Senior Member Posts: 329Registered Users
    RikRiorik said:

    The only problem I have with the special movement stances is that the fact that so many have and can use it exactly anywhere on the map it makes campaign map chokepoints half meaningless. Take Helmgart. The only race not in its immediate vicinity able to dance around it is the Skaven and the only race it can reasonably hold back is the Bretonnians.

    Solution? Predetermined ”roads” you can take with any one of the stances. But that obviously isnt changing.

    Also yesterday I attacked a Crooked Moon army in Underway stance and it retreated. I thought that was supposed to be impossible with the stance?

    I can agree with you there and would have no problem with the continuation of "Intercept" option, but I just hate it that I am in that stance and the VC's ganged up on me......Like maybe if it limits reinforcements etc I could deal but its just a major pain in the butt...ughhhh
    Most peoples' response to Rome II expansion...."Please Sir may I have some more"......

    My Massagetae, battered and bloody, but undefeated in the field! True masters of battle :)! Masters of campaigning on the other hand, unfortunately not.......:(
  • dreagondreagon Senior Member Posts: 1,832Registered Users
    The only change needed in my opinion is that a regular underpass battle should work like an underpass interception battle. You get the advantage of a narrow battlefield but with the disadvantage that the army is gone after you lose the battle.
    "The dog is a peasant and the cat is a gentleman." H.P. Lovecraft
  • vintagepurplevintagepurple Posts: 676Registered Users
    sccrboi01 said:

    Seems like a bug... if youre in tunnel stance all battles are tunnels. Ive attacked many factions in tunnel stance to force tunnel battles.

    I will double check after work and make sure, maybe it was the 2nd battle that was after I retreated, but it shouldn't throw me out of the stance if I retreat.

    But I truly believe a faction like the VC who do not use the underway should be able to engage me like normal, and I like the idea that the stance should hide you from factions who do have access to the stance as well.
    Retreating takes you out of underway stance. It's a tactical choice, do you rely on dwarfs inherent advantage in a tunnel map or do you fall back and risk annihilation?
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 5,831Registered Users
    sccrboi01 said:

    RikRiorik said:

    The only problem I have with the special movement stances is that the fact that so many have and can use it exactly anywhere on the map it makes campaign map chokepoints half meaningless. Take Helmgart. The only race not in its immediate vicinity able to dance around it is the Skaven and the only race it can reasonably hold back is the Bretonnians.

    Solution? Predetermined ”roads” you can take with any one of the stances. But that obviously isnt changing.

    Also yesterday I attacked a Crooked Moon army in Underway stance and it retreated. I thought that was supposed to be impossible with the stance?

    I can agree with you there and would have no problem with the continuation of "Intercept" option, but I just hate it that I am in that stance and the VC's ganged up on me......Like maybe if it limits reinforcements etc I could deal but its just a major pain in the butt...ughhhh
    I can see how being pulled to the surface makes little sense but if you’d always get Underway battles when engaged in that stance, whilst being able to move around freely AND be unseen on the map it would be the ultimate stance for defence and ambushing which is quite overkill. I think it works alrite as is to be honest with the reservations I already noted.
    Lord of the Undermountain
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • BMNOBLE981BMNOBLE981 Senior Member Posts: 1,203Registered Users
    I move in tunnel stance so the enemy does attack me, gives me the advantage in battle especially as the Dwarfs.

    Regardless of the number of enemy stacks.

    You just form a line in the center with your infantry (8 units worth) With your lord placed just behind.

    A few thunderers on the flanks (1 or 2 on each flank) with infantry just behind them (usually un shielded variety 1 unit each flank usually Hammerers)

    Artillery set up on high ground behind your lines (about 2 units at most)

    The rest of the force should be shielded quarrelers a bit behind your main infantry line, use a bit of micro management to pick their targets.

    Later on when you have access to them add a Brimstone copter to use against the enemy artillery once the main enemy force has left them undefended. You don't need to destroy the artillery just force the crews to drop them until they eventually give up and just attack your main line in melee.


    Provided the enemy all comes from one side and not multiple locations you can defeat most AI armies quite easily, or inflict enough casualties for another stack to mop up the survivors.


    If the AI could not see you in tunnel stance you would have to fight every battle above ground, losing the Dawi defensive play-style.

    Late game with a high level lord and good stack it can become quite overpowered intercepting enemy armies while in underway stance, with a simple auto resolve you can wipe out good enemy stacks.
    Dr Zoidberg "We fight over matters of honour, and whether or not abbreviations count in scrabble. THEY DON'T"

    “My fault. What I said in the guild was incorrect: rather than ‘death is certain if you follow me’, I actually meant ‘come along and I shall slaughter the lot of you’.”

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  • Michael4537Michael4537 Posts: 2,071Registered Users

    I would of loved a age of wonders style tunneling system in game, basically double layered map for some factions

    Or at least limited pathways for them to cross. Like set up in a grid on only certain parts of the map.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 12,748Registered Users, Moderators

    I would of loved a age of wonders style tunneling system in game, basically double layered map for some factions

    Or at least limited pathways for them to cross. Like set up in a grid on only certain parts of the map.
    Hah, yeah. Blackfire Pass is meant to be the only way large numbers of Orcs from the Badlands can get into the Empire... but really it accomplishes nothing in game.
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  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 5,831Registered Users
    Canuovea said:

    I would of loved a age of wonders style tunneling system in game, basically double layered map for some factions

    Or at least limited pathways for them to cross. Like set up in a grid on only certain parts of the map.
    Hah, yeah. Blackfire Pass is meant to be the only way large numbers of Orcs from the Badlands can get into the Empire... but really it accomplishes nothing in game.
    That is my main beef. Helmgart/Black Fire Pass. None of them really serve any purpose. Some natural choke points teally shouldn’t be bypassable with those stances forcing you to either go through or take a serious detour. It detracts from the epicness of it all.
    Lord of the Undermountain
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
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