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2nd Most Likely Legendary Lord to Get Unique Start Position?

mw51630mw51630 MemberRegistered Users Posts: 1,593
Last year, we started playing with the idea with moving some of the existing Legendary Lords of the Old World races in order to give players some new ways to experience the Mortal Empires campaign. We saw a great debate ensue throughout the community, with players both for and against this idea. So we proceeded with caution and identified a Legendary Lord that almost everyone agreed on should be moved: Slayer King Ungrim Ironfist will be returning to Karak Kadrin to resume his duties as its monarch.

So I long suspected that the forum debate of moving LL starting positions would impact ultimate CA's decisions, and I was right!

Ungrim was pretty much the one LL pretty much everyone thought should be moved. But if the forum had to pick a second LL to get a unique start position, who should it be?

By the way, keep the suggestions to LLs who are "sharing" a start position with another LL.

My suggestion would be Azhag, starting as leader of the Red Eye tribe. It is much closer to his loreful northern location.


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Comments

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,661
    Azgah would be a loreful pick.

    Thou I also would consider to move one of the VC to Lustria, simply to make the VC more interesting in terms of starting position.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 4,911
    SiWI said:

    Azgah would be a loreful pick.

    Thou I also would consider to move one of the VC to Lustria, simply to make the VC more interesting in terms of starting position.

    Could just give the VC Luthor Harkon I suppose, or are we all dead against any further VC lords?
    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,661
    Arsenic said:

    SiWI said:

    Azgah would be a loreful pick.

    Thou I also would consider to move one of the VC to Lustria, simply to make the VC more interesting in terms of starting position.

    Could just give the VC Luthor Harkon I suppose, or are we all dead against any further VC lords?
    not "dead" against it, BUUUUTTTTT....

    if new LL arrive for OW races, VC have to take they place on the back on the line.

    The Empire would deserve a LL long before the VC get yet another.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • zinsncabszinsncabs Registered Users Posts: 683
    Arsenic said:

    SiWI said:

    Azgah would be a loreful pick.

    Thou I also would consider to move one of the VC to Lustria, simply to make the VC more interesting in terms of starting position.

    Could just give the VC Luthor Harkon I suppose, or are we all dead against any further VC lords?
    I’m not opposed at all. Would love to Luthor Harkon and pirate undead.

    TEARS FOR THE SALT GOD !!! MODS FOR THE BUTHURT !!!
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 3,125
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,677
    Azhag, Boris or Red Duke.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • BlaeysBlaeys Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 892
    From among the existing factions/LLs, I agree that Azhag is the most likely to see a move soon.
  • zinsncabszinsncabs Registered Users Posts: 683
    Move Azhag and flip the startpos for Morghur and Khazrak.
    TEARS FOR THE SALT GOD !!! MODS FOR THE BUTHURT !!!
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,037
    I'm inclined to agree. Red Eye Mountain wasn't where Waaagh! Azhag started, but he did get a significant contingent from there once it started rolling.

    Of course, for a really difficult campaign, they could also plonk him in the Troll Country, having just started off his Waagh by taking over one of the minor settlements there. Or give him favoured in arctic terrain and have him start in one of the currently Norscan provinces just north of Troll Country.
  • OldblackeyesOldblackeyes Registered Users Posts: 98
    edited May 2018
    In terms of moving LL's Azhag's is the only other truly obvious change. The empire lords make sense where they are although it could be fun to have one out on expedition Teclis style to mix things up. Ghorst makes's sense kicking back as Manny's boot boy although again having a start position that isn't Sylvania would be nice for variety. The only other candidate I can think of is Kemmler who could either shuffle off to quenelles or even be made into a horde to befit his wanderer epithet. Did I miss anyone?
  • harngersteinharngerstein Registered Users Posts: 816
    Ghorst belongs with manny lorefully.

    Bring Heinrich to the west coast! Mousillion or bust!
  • KelefaneKelefane Registered Users Posts: 1,656
  • Pr4vdaPr4vda Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 977
    Azhag have to be the next one, with a huge Greenskins overhaul. New mechanic, rework the Waaagh!, give new units (orc boss, boyz with spears, nights gobbos with spears, bolt throwa etc.), starting in one of the province of the Red Eyes tribe.

    Then, maybe, maybe, Heinrich Kemmler. He could be somewhere between Bretonnia and the Empire.

    Apart of them, I see no other Lords to moove.

    However, I would really like to have Boris in Middenheim, and the Red duke in Moussillon, as fully playable LL's.

    Boris would come with a huge "Empire" overhaul, and the Red duke with a huge VC overhaul.

    Once it's done, I would be happy :p
    Team Dawis

    Dawis shall purge all their fallen Karaks, with the blood of the Greeskins and the skavens !
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,467

    Ghorst belongs with manny lorefully.

    Bring Heinrich to the west coast! Mousillion or bust!

    Kemmler has had more to do with Manny than with Moussillon... An Undead Horde would make more sense
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?

    GHAL MARAZ IS THE WEAPON OF THE SETTING! YET SOME BRETONNIAN SWORD IS MORE POTENT?! BUFF GHAL MARAZ IN SIGMAR'S NAME!
  • MetternichMetternich Registered Users Posts: 77
    Volkamar probably with sigmar crusade horde, religious system and sigmar corruption.
  • PaulHPaulH Registered Users Posts: 1,365
    Not many more need new locations. I'd offer these up as ideas:

    Azhag = In the north of the World's Edge Mountains
    Grombrindal = Karak Zorn (he's a legendary fellow, they're a legendary hold!)
    Kemmler = Horde that starts in Estalia
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,467
    edited May 2018

    Volkamar probably with sigmar crusade horde, religious system and sigmar corruption.

    Yeah... no... NO NO NO... especially no to "Sigmar Corruption", what next? Urlic Corruption, Asurian Corruption, Lady Corruption? Grimnir Corruption?... and why should the Crusading faction have a religious system? If anythng that would make sense for Reikland, keeping the different Cults from Killing each other.

    But then still it doesn't make much sense because the cults, while squabbling, would, at the time of the game, unite to defend the Empire... and while, as mentioned, squabbling, they are reasonably stable.

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?

    GHAL MARAZ IS THE WEAPON OF THE SETTING! YET SOME BRETONNIAN SWORD IS MORE POTENT?! BUFF GHAL MARAZ IN SIGMAR'S NAME!
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,677

    Volkamar probably with sigmar crusade horde, religious system and sigmar corruption.

    No to Sigmar corruption becuase that simply does not fit at all.

    and no to the Religious System since the Empire doesn't fight Religious wars as it's more politics then Religion based.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • zinsncabszinsncabs Registered Users Posts: 683

    Volkamar probably with sigmar crusade horde, religious system and sigmar corruption.

    No to Sigmar corruption becuase that simply does not fit at all.

    and no to the Religious System since the Empire doesn't fight Religious wars as it's more politics then Religion based.
    @Metternich is just stirring the pot. No need to take his suggestion seriously.
    TEARS FOR THE SALT GOD !!! MODS FOR THE BUTHURT !!!
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,677
    zinsncabs said:

    Volkamar probably with sigmar crusade horde, religious system and sigmar corruption.

    No to Sigmar corruption becuase that simply does not fit at all.

    and no to the Religious System since the Empire doesn't fight Religious wars as it's more politics then Religion based.
    @Metternich is just stirring the pot. No need to take his suggestion seriously.
    Can never be too Paranoid. Thou did not had to deal with Equix.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • IokkoIokko Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 422
    Yeah Azhag makes the most sense but i think they'll give priority to races that currently have only one start position. If they don't want to make Boris playable or add the mad count of Averland then i'm perfectly fine with Gelt or Volkmar being moved, preferably within the Empire.

    I respect the side that wants them to stay in Altdorf but this is how i feel and no amount of "but it's not loreful" will change the fact that mutliple start positions are needed for coop campaigns and they add replayability, so IF they decide not to add any new lords, moving Gelt of Volkmar is better than having only one start position.

    Kemmler as a horde sounds like a lot of fun. I wasn't sure about it at first, since vampires can lose their entire army if they lose a single loss because of crumbling, but they do have that "the dead rise again" mechanic that saves a couple units after a defeat so afterall it could work. I'd like to see the horde start in the grey mountains since bretonnia already has some vampire presence and if he's a horde he can always go there.

    Vlad and Isabella will most likely stay together cause that's their thing, and i don't know if Ghorst is enough of a big deal to lead his own faction when Kemmler is an option. Though much like the empire, if the obvious option (Kemmler/Boris) isn't doable for some reason, i'm perfectly fine with the alternative (Volkmar/Gelt/Ghorst)

    Beastmen could use subfactions for COOP campaigns too but at least they have different start positions so i think they can wait a bit for that.
    Stating opinions as if they're facts in your signature and adding "Change my mind" doesn't make them facts, change my mind.
  • FlyingWarPigWithPawsFlyingWarPigWithPaws Registered Users Posts: 742
    Iokko said:

    Yeah Azhag makes the most sense but i think they'll give priority to races that currently have only one start position. If they don't want to make Boris playable or add the mad count of Averland then i'm perfectly fine with Gelt or Volkmar being moved, preferably within the Empire.

    I respect the side that wants them to stay in Altdorf but this is how i feel and no amount of "but it's not loreful" will change the fact that mutliple start positions are needed for coop campaigns and they add replayability, so IF they decide not to add any new lords, moving Gelt of Volkmar is better than having only one start position.

    Kemmler as a horde sounds like a lot of fun. I wasn't sure about it at first, since vampires can lose their entire army if they lose a single loss because of crumbling, but they do have that "the dead rise again" mechanic that saves a couple units after a defeat so afterall it could work. I'd like to see the horde start in the grey mountains since bretonnia already has some vampire presence and if he's a horde he can always go there.

    Vlad and Isabella will most likely stay together cause that's their thing, and i don't know if Ghorst is enough of a big deal to lead his own faction when Kemmler is an option. Though much like the empire, if the obvious option (Kemmler/Boris) isn't doable for some reason, i'm perfectly fine with the alternative (Volkmar/Gelt/Ghorst)

    Beastmen could use subfactions for COOP campaigns too but at least they have different start positions so i think they can wait a bit for that.

    Exactly. Its weird to see them complain about this potential change as not loreful, but ignore all the countless other not loreful for the sake of fun features.
    Ungrim is no longer homesick.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,467
    Ghorst is not a big enough thing to lead his own faction... he's Mannys puppet... hes an elevated Red Shirt... him leading his own faction, instead of having Neferata or Harkon, would be the equivalent of Moving Gelt and/or Volkmar instead of giving the Empire its proper faction leaders named Todbringer or Leitdorf
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?

    GHAL MARAZ IS THE WEAPON OF THE SETTING! YET SOME BRETONNIAN SWORD IS MORE POTENT?! BUFF GHAL MARAZ IN SIGMAR'S NAME!
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,677
    Iokko said:

    Yeah Azhag makes the most sense but i think they'll give priority to races that currently have only one start position. If they don't want to make Boris playable or add the mad count of Averland then i'm perfectly fine with Gelt or Volkmar being moved, preferably within the Empire.

    I respect the side that wants them to stay in Altdorf but this is how i feel and no amount of "but it's not loreful" will change the fact that mutliple start positions are needed for coop campaigns and they add replayability, so IF they decide not to add any new lords, moving Gelt of Volkmar is better than having only one start position.

    Kemmler as a horde sounds like a lot of fun. I wasn't sure about it at first, since vampires can lose their entire army if they lose a single loss because of crumbling, but they do have that "the dead rise again" mechanic that saves a couple units after a defeat so afterall it could work. I'd like to see the horde start in the grey mountains since bretonnia already has some vampire presence and if he's a horde he can always go there.

    Vlad and Isabella will most likely stay together cause that's their thing, and i don't know if Ghorst is enough of a big deal to lead his own faction when Kemmler is an option. Though much like the empire, if the obvious option (Kemmler/Boris) isn't doable for some reason, i'm perfectly fine with the alternative (Volkmar/Gelt/Ghorst)

    Beastmen could use subfactions for COOP campaigns too but at least they have different start positions so i think they can wait a bit for that.

    Issue with the Empire is more Mechanics then Start positions even then they'll probably only do Boris because the state of Middenlands Landmarks (Both buildings are saying units come from here but don't and just looks unfinished) along with a Empire Politics mechanic because offices on it's own suck.
    So if we use Ungrims as an example

    Boris Middenland Start.
    Knights Panther, Knights of the White Wolf and/or Teutogen Guard.
    Empire Race Politics mechanic.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,661

    Iokko said:

    Yeah Azhag makes the most sense but i think they'll give priority to races that currently have only one start position. If they don't want to make Boris playable or add the mad count of Averland then i'm perfectly fine with Gelt or Volkmar being moved, preferably within the Empire.

    I respect the side that wants them to stay in Altdorf but this is how i feel and no amount of "but it's not loreful" will change the fact that mutliple start positions are needed for coop campaigns and they add replayability, so IF they decide not to add any new lords, moving Gelt of Volkmar is better than having only one start position.

    Kemmler as a horde sounds like a lot of fun. I wasn't sure about it at first, since vampires can lose their entire army if they lose a single loss because of crumbling, but they do have that "the dead rise again" mechanic that saves a couple units after a defeat so afterall it could work. I'd like to see the horde start in the grey mountains since bretonnia already has some vampire presence and if he's a horde he can always go there.

    Vlad and Isabella will most likely stay together cause that's their thing, and i don't know if Ghorst is enough of a big deal to lead his own faction when Kemmler is an option. Though much like the empire, if the obvious option (Kemmler/Boris) isn't doable for some reason, i'm perfectly fine with the alternative (Volkmar/Gelt/Ghorst)

    Beastmen could use subfactions for COOP campaigns too but at least they have different start positions so i think they can wait a bit for that.

    Exactly. Its weird to see them complain about this potential change as not loreful, but ignore all the countless other not loreful for the sake of fun features.
    its less about ignoring them, but what kind of cut do you accept or fund necessary.

    If CA wants a 2nd start position for the Empire, great! Add either Marius Leitdorf (Averland) or Reikmarshall Kurt Helborg.

    But Gelt makes little sense elsewhere (not only because all of his quest are in the OW) and neither does really Volkmar.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,467
    SiWI said:

    Iokko said:

    Yeah Azhag makes the most sense but i think they'll give priority to races that currently have only one start position. If they don't want to make Boris playable or add the mad count of Averland then i'm perfectly fine with Gelt or Volkmar being moved, preferably within the Empire.

    I respect the side that wants them to stay in Altdorf but this is how i feel and no amount of "but it's not loreful" will change the fact that mutliple start positions are needed for coop campaigns and they add replayability, so IF they decide not to add any new lords, moving Gelt of Volkmar is better than having only one start position.

    Kemmler as a horde sounds like a lot of fun. I wasn't sure about it at first, since vampires can lose their entire army if they lose a single loss because of crumbling, but they do have that "the dead rise again" mechanic that saves a couple units after a defeat so afterall it could work. I'd like to see the horde start in the grey mountains since bretonnia already has some vampire presence and if he's a horde he can always go there.

    Vlad and Isabella will most likely stay together cause that's their thing, and i don't know if Ghorst is enough of a big deal to lead his own faction when Kemmler is an option. Though much like the empire, if the obvious option (Kemmler/Boris) isn't doable for some reason, i'm perfectly fine with the alternative (Volkmar/Gelt/Ghorst)

    Beastmen could use subfactions for COOP campaigns too but at least they have different start positions so i think they can wait a bit for that.

    Exactly. Its weird to see them complain about this potential change as not loreful, but ignore all the countless other not loreful for the sake of fun features.
    its less about ignoring them, but what kind of cut do you accept or fund necessary.

    If CA wants a 2nd start position for the Empire, great! Add either Marius Leitdorf (Averland) or Reikmarshall Kurt Helborg.

    But Gelt makes little sense elsewhere (not only because all of his quest are in the OW) and neither does really Volkmar.
    Imagine Volkmar leading a crusade in Araby... and then has to march to Kislev for his quest...
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?

    GHAL MARAZ IS THE WEAPON OF THE SETTING! YET SOME BRETONNIAN SWORD IS MORE POTENT?! BUFF GHAL MARAZ IN SIGMAR'S NAME!
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,677

    SiWI said:

    Iokko said:

    Yeah Azhag makes the most sense but i think they'll give priority to races that currently have only one start position. If they don't want to make Boris playable or add the mad count of Averland then i'm perfectly fine with Gelt or Volkmar being moved, preferably within the Empire.

    I respect the side that wants them to stay in Altdorf but this is how i feel and no amount of "but it's not loreful" will change the fact that mutliple start positions are needed for coop campaigns and they add replayability, so IF they decide not to add any new lords, moving Gelt of Volkmar is better than having only one start position.

    Kemmler as a horde sounds like a lot of fun. I wasn't sure about it at first, since vampires can lose their entire army if they lose a single loss because of crumbling, but they do have that "the dead rise again" mechanic that saves a couple units after a defeat so afterall it could work. I'd like to see the horde start in the grey mountains since bretonnia already has some vampire presence and if he's a horde he can always go there.

    Vlad and Isabella will most likely stay together cause that's their thing, and i don't know if Ghorst is enough of a big deal to lead his own faction when Kemmler is an option. Though much like the empire, if the obvious option (Kemmler/Boris) isn't doable for some reason, i'm perfectly fine with the alternative (Volkmar/Gelt/Ghorst)

    Beastmen could use subfactions for COOP campaigns too but at least they have different start positions so i think they can wait a bit for that.

    Exactly. Its weird to see them complain about this potential change as not loreful, but ignore all the countless other not loreful for the sake of fun features.
    its less about ignoring them, but what kind of cut do you accept or fund necessary.

    If CA wants a 2nd start position for the Empire, great! Add either Marius Leitdorf (Averland) or Reikmarshall Kurt Helborg.

    But Gelt makes little sense elsewhere (not only because all of his quest are in the OW) and neither does really Volkmar.
    Imagine Volkmar leading a crusade in Araby... and then has to march to Kislev for his quest...
    If they move quests
    Gelt
    "Welcome to Estalia gentlemen" *Is in Naggaroth*
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,888
    You know, when the topics question is "Which already existing Old World playable LL gets moved next", I find it really hard to understand why names like Luthor Harkon, Boris Todbringer or Red Duke are even nominated. That's like saying "N'kari, Greasus Goldtooth or Astragoth Ironhand". Does not compute.

    So the obvious answers are
    • Azhag -> Troll Country or somewhere near by. Red Eye Tribe replacement is the easiest solution
    • Griimgor -> Dark Lands. Which is tripple problematic since A)we do not have space there yet B)Grimgor and Azhag would again be near each other C)it leaves a hole in the Badlands. Which could be filled with good old Gorfang Rotgut, the real king of Black Crag but I think we all would rather see Grom raising to arms and bring Goblin peace into the southern realm.
    • Skarsnik -> Karak Eight Peaks, since that is his true home. Which of course would need a higher overhaul over his DLC and probably will never happen.
    • Kemmler can be shoved around basically anywhere, since he roamed the world.
    But there it kinda ends. All the others are were they belong and need no repositioning. No, the Empire dudes are rightfully place. Adding new Elector Counts might be necessary but is not "moving" an already existing LL.
    Ungrim, Azhag & Grimgor were the most disputed ones since before game#1 release. One done (still no mentioning if also in game#1...so I guess that ship has sailed), and probably only one Orc to go. Most likely Azhag, since Grimgor is for game#1 story purpose bound in Black Crag. Not that this matters if these repositioning is only for ME.

    ------Red Dox
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,132
    Pr4vda said:

    Azhag have to be the next one, with a huge Greenskins overhaul. New mechanic, rework the Waaagh!, give new units (orc boss, boyz with spears, nights gobbos with spears, bolt throwa etc.), starting in one of the province of the Red Eyes tribe.

    ^^^ Although putting him in or near troll country would be awesome, too. But seriously... NO greenskins LL should not have their own faction. Orcs that powerful come together as partners -- OR -- have to be BEATEN into submission. Greenies should also get the Norscan thing where you have to defeat a factionleader to be able to confederate with them, IMO. But there's no way any Waaagh! leading Orc would just submit uncontested to another. Hell... right now Norscans actually have a LOT that orcs would benefit from (and would be more loreful for having). I feel like Norscans were really how Orcs should have been made, campaign wise :(

    Greenskins seriously need some revamping going on, though, for sure.

  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,467
    Red_Dox said:

    You know, when the topics question is "Which already existing Old World playable LL gets moved next", I find it really hard to understand why names like Luthor Harkon, Boris Todbringer or Red Duke are even nominated. That's like saying "N'kari, Greasus Goldtooth or Astragoth Ironhand". Does not compute.

    So the obvious answers are

    • Azhag -> Troll Country or somewhere near by. Red Eye Tribe replacement is the easiest solution
    • Griimgor -> Dark Lands. Which is tripple problematic since A)we do not have space there yet B)Grimgor and Azhag would again be near each other C)it leaves a hole in the Badlands. Which could be filled with good old Gorfang Rotgut, the real king of Black Crag but I think we all would rather see Grom raising to arms and bring Goblin peace into the southern realm.
    • Skarsnik -> Karak Eight Peaks, since that is his true home. Which of course would need a higher overhaul over his DLC and probably will never happen.
    • Kemmler can be shoved around basically anywhere, since he roamed the world.
    But there it kinda ends. All the others are were they belong and need no repositioning. No, the Empire dudes are rightfully place. Adding new Elector Counts might be necessary but is not "moving" an already existing LL.
    Ungrim, Azhag & Grimgor were the most disputed ones since before game#1 release. One done (still no mentioning if also in game#1...so I guess that ship has sailed), and probably only one Orc to go. Most likely Azhag, since Grimgor is for game#1 story purpose bound in Black Crag. Not that this matters if these repositioning is only for ME.

    ------Red Dox
    In regardsof Skarsnik though, one could argue that Queek should take Eight Peaks
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    CA hates the Empire confirmed. The FLC LL for the new Lord Pack is Gor-Rok. Meaning the Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. And no, moving Balthasar Gelt from Reikland, where he should be, DOES NOT COUNT. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire: Marius Leitdorf of Averland or maybe Elspeth von Draken in Nuln...

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?

    GHAL MARAZ IS THE WEAPON OF THE SETTING! YET SOME BRETONNIAN SWORD IS MORE POTENT?! BUFF GHAL MARAZ IN SIGMAR'S NAME!
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