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[fanart] Araby Djiin concept

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Comments

  • uriakuriak Posts: 3,421Registered Users
    edited June 2018
    Yeah I thougth there was a bit of Hindu influence too, but @vintagepurple it was an experiment to give another take at the subject and I liked the feature.

    Some one on reddit just told me "Not enough Middle eastern features. Should have a Turban. Shackles. A dagger. Look like Jaffar. I feel like that's how the model looks in the 5mm scale when it was built" but then there are dozen of such artworks already done, what's the point when propositing a concept?

    And even a given trop can have its spin, take orcs, warhammer's ork got more and more distinctive from Tokien's kind and are pretty recognisable nowadays.

    PS : would you folk like more a fanart of known stuff or other propositions for minor factions in future artworks?
  • BardicInquisitionBardicInquisition Posts: 1,100Registered Users
    I'd like to see a rendition of a Kislevite Ice Witch if that's alright with you.
  • ErathilErathil Posts: 602Registered Users
    This is an awesome concept and I am jealous of your artistic talent.
  • GW_84GW_84 Posts: 197Registered Users
    uriak said:



    PS : would you folk like more a fanart of known stuff or other propositions for minor factions in future artworks?

    Can we has both :smiley: ?

    More seriously, your art started a good discussion about the aesthetics of a potential Araby addition and could start another such discussion about Tilea, Kislev or such. That said, nothing wrong seeing art of existing factions. Still, you are the artist so its your call.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,346Registered Users
    edited June 2018
    Since there's a lot of argument here about what djinn look like, and what would be an authentic vs a Westernized version of one, I thought I'd share a passage from The Thousand and One Nights. It's from one of my favorite stories in the collection, called "The City of Brass." During it the human characters encounter an imprisoned efrit, a kind of evil djinn, named Dahish the son of El-A’mash. He has been imprisoned in the desert, with the lower half of his body transformed into a stone pillar, while the upper half remains that of a djinn. The description of him is as follows:

    And as they were proceeding, one day, they came to a pillar of black stone, wherein was a person sunk to his arm-pits, and he had two huge wings, and four arms; two of them like those of the sons of Adam, and two like the fore-legs of lions, with claws. He had hair upon his head like the tails of horses, and two eyes like two burning coals, and he had a third eye, in his forehead, like the eye of the lynx, from which there appeared sparks of fire.


    So there's an authentic Middle Eastern description of a djinn.
    Post edited by Draculasaurus on
  • NazredNazred Senior Member Posts: 916Registered Users

    Since there's a lot of argument here about what djinn look like, and what would be an authentic vs a Westernixed version of one, I thought I'd share a passage from The Arabian Nights. It's from one of my favorite stories in the collection, called "The City of Brass." During it the human characters encounter an imprisoned efrit, a kind of evil djinn, named Dahish the son of El-A’mash. He has been imprisoned in the desert, with the lower half of his body transformed into a stone pillar, while the upper half remains that of a djinn. The description of him is as follows:

    And as they were proceeding, one day, they came to a pillar of black stone, wherein was a person sunk to his arm-pits, and he had two huge wings, and four arms; two of them like those of the sons of Adam, and two like the fore-legs of lions, with claws. He had hair upon his head like the tails of horses, and two eyes like two burning coals, and he had a third eye, in his forehead, like the eye of the lynx, from which there appeared sparks of fire.


    So there's an authentic Middle Eastern description of a djinn.
    Scary that would be really cool though!

    "PS : would you folk like more a fanart of known stuff or other propositions for minor factions in future artworks?"

    Eitherway is good, I love you skink priest in the jungle as well
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,339Registered Users

    Since there's a lot of argument here about what djinn look like, and what would be an authentic vs a Westernixed version of one, I thought I'd share a passage from The Arabian Nights. It's from one of my favorite stories in the collection, called "The City of Brass." During it the human characters encounter an imprisoned efrit, a kind of evil djinn, named Dahish the son of El-A’mash. He has been imprisoned in the desert, with the lower half of his body transformed into a stone pillar, while the upper half remains that of a djinn. The description of him is as follows:

    And as they were proceeding, one day, they came to a pillar of black stone, wherein was a person sunk to his arm-pits, and he had two huge wings, and four arms; two of them like those of the sons of Adam, and two like the fore-legs of lions, with claws. He had hair upon his head like the tails of horses, and two eyes like two burning coals, and he had a third eye, in his forehead, like the eye of the lynx, from which there appeared sparks of fire.


    So there's an authentic Middle Eastern description of a djinn.
    The Dreadfleet depiction of Djinn is the most recent, and therefore the most canon.



    The 3 types of Djinn shown here are the Tempest Djinn, Fire Efreet, and Sea Nymph. Lore also mentions Desert Spirits and Royal Djinn as additional types, though Royal Djinn may or may not exist.

    Thanks for posting that description, though. It was interesting, and GW could always redesign Djinn if they wanted. (I hope they don't, since I like the appearance xnd lore if the current Djinns, but that's just me.)
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Posts: 2,254Registered Users



    As I already said, the Ottomans used THIN curved blades, not massive cleavers, those are distinctively CHINESE in design rather than Middle Eastern.

    You do realize that the thing you were complaining about are MODELS, that often have to be cast in shapes, taht pretty much needs to be thick, otherwise they will break during packaging? ALso, the models you were complaining about taht, were conversions. Nor did the guy who presented them even try to insinuate, that it had to be a 1-1 representation of these models.... SO basically, you are making mountains out of molehills.... Give it up.


    As for the "Warhammer is all based on British stereotypes of other nations"-bit, yeah, that's used as a defense but it's also not true. Let's check on the human nations.

    Oh boy here we go....


    The Empire, supposedly German, but neither contains the lederhosen-clad Oktoberfest lout nor the goosestepping, Pickelhaube-wearing Prussian stereotype (or Nazis). It's depiction of 17th century Germany is pretty fair.

    Erhm... You kind of forgot the extreme corruption, religious fanatism, prosecution of deviance and constant civil wars... But of course, that wouldn't fit your narrative... Also... I never once mentioned stereotypes.. I said CARICATURE. There is a very important difference..


    Bretonnia, supposedly French but the only stereotypical things about them are their accents. Neither is their cuisine characerized as weird, nor are they portrayed as cowards and defeatists. Their impulsiveness and desire to charge ahead recklessly is actually fairly accurate to French 100-year War characterizations.

    Erhm.. The entire culture of Bretonnia is an extreme caricature (again, the important difference) of 11th and 12 century France. The extreme poverty of the serfs, and the non-chalant attitude towards their plight from the nobles. Even the code of chivalry is acaricature of the code that some french knights claimed to follow (they didn't really... Only when it suited them)... French defeatism didn't become a thing until the 2nd world war, which is OBIVOUSLY not what Bretonnia is based off of...


    Kislev, supposedly Russian, but the only thing hinting about that are the names, the bear symbology and Winged Hussars (which are Polish rather than Russian). Nothing about being drunk all the time, being excessively backwards or being communists. A fair analogue of 17th century Russia.

    Kislev is a caricature of EASTERN EUROPEAN culture, which includes parts of Russia from that time. They are characterized as a hearty but ultimately fractured people (The Ungols are obvious allegory to steppe tribes that plagued much of Eastern Europe), that suffers constant invasions from various threats. They never seem capable of becoming a power in their own right..


    Tilea and Estalia, supposedly based on Italy and Spain, but they actually have little characterization in the first place other than being small, divided and weak. This actually makes Estalia fairly unrecognizable as renaissance era Spain, which was a powerhouse, and 15th century Italy was actually small, weak and divided, so another fair depiction.
    Border Princes don't even fit into anything.

    Erhm.. Again the caricature.. Who was the greatest enemy of Spain during the 16th century? Britian.. Obivously the Estalians are being put in a bad light. Either way, both these nations have had so little characterization, that it isn't really a point in either sides' favour.. So why do you even bring them up?


    The Marauder tribes come closest, since they depict medieval horror stories of the raiding norsemen, but the only real stereotypical thing are the horned helmets.

    Yeah... Northerners are totally all a bunch of Dark Gods worshipping heathens, that do nothing but rape, burn and pillage their way through the world.... I mean... It is not like the Norsemen had an entire advanced culture of their own, that didn't revolve around fighting, but was actually based on commerce... I mean... Norscans are TOTALLY a realistic depiction of real world Vikings! (read: That was sarcasm. I am being sarcastic...)


    It's only when it comes to Araby and CIN that we get the lazy stereotypes and coincidentally these had very little to no official TT representation.

    I am pretty sure I have just proven, that this is simply not the case.... Also: Stereotype =l= caricature.


    So no, I don't have to accept lazy Hollywood style Genies.

    You do not have to accept any thing at all. You do however have to udnherstand the design process, and ideas behind them, if you want to be taken seriosuly in discussions such as these..
  • baronblackbaronblack Posts: 3,202Registered Users



    As I already said, the Ottomans used THIN curved blades, not massive cleavers, those are distinctively CHINESE in design rather than Middle Eastern.

    You do realize that the thing you were complaining about are MODELS, that often have to be cast in shapes, taht pretty much needs to be thick, otherwise they will break during packaging? ALso, the models you were complaining about taht, were conversions. Nor did the guy who presented them even try to insinuate, that it had to be a 1-1 representation of these models.... SO basically, you are making mountains out of molehills.... Give it up.


    As for the "Warhammer is all based on British stereotypes of other nations"-bit, yeah, that's used as a defense but it's also not true. Let's check on the human nations.

    Oh boy here we go....


    The Empire, supposedly German, but neither contains the lederhosen-clad Oktoberfest lout nor the goosestepping, Pickelhaube-wearing Prussian stereotype (or Nazis). It's depiction of 17th century Germany is pretty fair.

    Erhm... You kind of forgot the extreme corruption, religious fanatism, prosecution of deviance and constant civil wars... But of course, that wouldn't fit your narrative... Also... I never once mentioned stereotypes.. I said CARICATURE. There is a very important difference..


    Bretonnia, supposedly French but the only stereotypical things about them are their accents. Neither is their cuisine characerized as weird, nor are they portrayed as cowards and defeatists. Their impulsiveness and desire to charge ahead recklessly is actually fairly accurate to French 100-year War characterizations.

    Erhm.. The entire culture of Bretonnia is an extreme caricature (again, the important difference) of 11th and 12 century France. The extreme poverty of the serfs, and the non-chalant attitude towards their plight from the nobles. Even the code of chivalry is acaricature of the code that some french knights claimed to follow (they didn't really... Only when it suited them)... French defeatism didn't become a thing until the 2nd world war, which is OBIVOUSLY not what Bretonnia is based off of...


    Kislev, supposedly Russian, but the only thing hinting about that are the names, the bear symbology and Winged Hussars (which are Polish rather than Russian). Nothing about being drunk all the time, being excessively backwards or being communists. A fair analogue of 17th century Russia.

    Kislev is a caricature of EASTERN EUROPEAN culture, which includes parts of Russia from that time. They are characterized as a hearty but ultimately fractured people (The Ungols are obvious allegory to steppe tribes that plagued much of Eastern Europe), that suffers constant invasions from various threats. They never seem capable of becoming a power in their own right..


    Tilea and Estalia, supposedly based on Italy and Spain, but they actually have little characterization in the first place other than being small, divided and weak. This actually makes Estalia fairly unrecognizable as renaissance era Spain, which was a powerhouse, and 15th century Italy was actually small, weak and divided, so another fair depiction.
    Border Princes don't even fit into anything.

    Erhm.. Again the caricature.. Who was the greatest enemy of Spain during the 16th century? Britian.. Obivously the Estalians are being put in a bad light. Either way, both these nations have had so little characterization, that it isn't really a point in either sides' favour.. So why do you even bring them up?


    The Marauder tribes come closest, since they depict medieval horror stories of the raiding norsemen, but the only real stereotypical thing are the horned helmets.

    Yeah... Northerners are totally all a bunch of Dark Gods worshipping heathens, that do nothing but rape, burn and pillage their way through the world.... I mean... It is not like the Norsemen had an entire advanced culture of their own, that didn't revolve around fighting, but was actually based on commerce... I mean... Norscans are TOTALLY a realistic depiction of real world Vikings! (read: That was sarcasm. I am being sarcastic...)


    It's only when it comes to Araby and CIN that we get the lazy stereotypes and coincidentally these had very little to no official TT representation.

    I am pretty sure I have just proven, that this is simply not the case.... Also: Stereotype =l= caricature.


    So no, I don't have to accept lazy Hollywood style Genies.

    You do not have to accept any thing at all. You do however have to udnherstand the design process, and ideas behind them, if you want to be taken seriosuly in discussions such as these..
    He just did not understood what a stereotype is... lel, fockin Skaven are the worst incarnation of Italian stereotypes. I have still to read an Italian forumer raging about how "black Hunger" (an italian saying translated in every language) or about mad science and typical italian cowardice.
    Don't even talk about how Tileans talks in the Armybook like hilarious american sicilian gangsters from a '50 mob movie. Araby is liked because IS Disneyish, just ask everyone on Farseer and Reddit. And that was even before Aladdin was even released...

    Italy in 15th century was so weak that every King in Europe asked for our soldiers... guess what Dogs of War are based on.

    #tileanpride
  • baronblackbaronblack Posts: 3,202Registered Users
    However, @uriak , keep going with your work, is marvelous.
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,339Registered Users
    uriak said:

    Yeah I thougth there was a bit of Hindu influence too, but @vintagepurple it was an experiment to give another take at the subject and I liked the feature.

    Some one on reddit just told me "Not enough Middle eastern features. Should have a Turban. Shackles. A dagger. Look like Jaffar. I feel like that's how the model looks in the 5mm scale when it was built" but then there are dozen of such artworks already done, what's the point when propositing a concept?

    And even a given trop can have its spin, take orcs, warhammer's ork got more and more distinctive from Tokien's kind and are pretty recognisable nowadays.

    PS : would you folk like more a fanart of known stuff or other propositions for minor factions in future artworks?

    You put out great stuff. Whatever you do, it's sure to be creative and interesting. :)

    I will say that art is a great way to get people excited for new units and possible races, plus it can show developers that there's real interest in seeing a part of the world fleshed out since someone went out of their way to make art for it. So if there's a race or unit you'd really like to see, I'd recommend doing something for that.

    But again, do whatever inspires you. I look forward to your future work.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 22,087Registered Users
    Erhm... You kind of forgot the extreme corruption, religious fanatism, prosecution of deviance and constant civil wars... But of course, that wouldn't fit your narrative... Also... I never once mentioned stereotypes.. I said CARICATURE. There is a very important difference..

    This has been about stereotypes from the beginning, so it's not my fault you incapable of staying on topic since it...wouldn't fit your narrative.

    So how's the Empire a caricature of the HRE? How's that actually any way far off from how the HRE conducted itself for most of its history? The HRE was corrupt, was wrecked by civil warfare and was intolerant of deviancy and from time to time engaged in religious fanaticism. What aspect about it is exaggerated? Considering that deviancy in Warhammer world carries the very real danger of Chaos corruption I'd say they have good reason to be intolerant.

    Erhm.. The entire culture of Bretonnia is an extreme caricature (again, the important difference) of 11th and 12 century France. The extreme poverty of the serfs, and the non-chalant attitude towards their plight from the nobles. Even the code of chivalry is acaricature of the code that some french knights claimed to follow (they didn't really... Only when it suited them)... French defeatism didn't become a thing until the 2nd world war, which is OBIVOUSLY not what Bretonnia is based off of...

    How's that a caricature of medieval France? What other than the names screams FRANCE about Bretonnia in the first place? You might as well change all of their names to English or German and it would be just as analogous.

    Kislev is a caricature of EASTERN EUROPEAN culture, which includes parts of Russia from that time. They are characterized as a hearty but ultimately fractured people (The Ungols are obvious allegory to steppe tribes that plagued much of Eastern Europe), that suffers constant invasions from various threats. They never seem capable of becoming a power in their own right..

    How's that a caricature of Russia? Kislev is coded Slavic, but it's not persiflaging anything you'd associate with Russia or Eastern Europe.

    OK, I think I can stop now because it's more than clear you haven't the faintest clue of what you are talking about. Empire, Bretonnia and Kislev are coded HRE, medieval France and Tsarist Russia respectively, but they're missing the whole "ludicrous exaggeration" aspect that defines a caricature. They're more or less direct analogues. You can call that lazy, but it's neither a caricature nor stereotypical.

    Whereas the bottle-genies and flying carpet brigades are ridiculous stereotypes and a caricature of Middle Eastern cultures.


  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Posts: 2,644Registered Users
    My post was never about stereotypes. That is a strawman you set-up and yourself knocked down by proving that Warhammer is not about stereotypes. After all, there are no stereotypes exhibited by the elves, for example.

    My post was a joke about Warhammer being cliche and derivative (which I do not say pegoratively, as it was actually intentional on GW’s part). The joke went over your head and that is fine, I should have made it more explicit; irony doesn’t always translate as intended online.

    Now please stop trying to hijack the poor OP’s thread. Have your private squabbles with people privately.

    Sorry, OP: when I made my joke I didn’t intend to derail your fan art topic.
    ò_ó
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 22,087Registered Users
    edited June 2018
    Warlocke said:

    My post was never about stereotypes. That is a strawman you set-up and yourself knocked down by proving that Warhammer is not about stereotypes. After all, there are no stereotypes exhibited by the elves, for example.

    My post was a joke about Warhammer being cliche and derivative (which I do not say pegoratively, as it was actually intentional on GW’s part). The joke went over your head and that is fine, I should have made it more explicit; irony doesn’t always translate as intended online.

    Now please stop trying to hijack the poor OP’s thread. Have your private squabbles with people privately.

    Sorry, OP: when I made my joke I didn’t intend to derail your fan art topic.

    Zzzzz...

    "Just Joking" is the calling card of those incapable of owning their own words. Nothing about your post suggested you were joking. You just don't want to be actually held responsible for what you said.

  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Posts: 2,644Registered Users

    OP, as one former art student to somebody who is clearly invested in developing their talent, keep up the fine work.
    ò_ó
  • uriakuriak Posts: 3,421Registered Users
    Thanks Warloks it's appreciated. I confess the reddit reaction was not that encouraging to me ^^; I guess it's a different public.

    As for the visual of araby, honestly I'd be fine even with something quite classic but elementals are one of those themes that allow quite a lot of leeway. They could be humanoïdes but with armors, animal shaped... this was was more of the character/caster type.
  • mewade44mewade44 Junior Member Posts: 780Registered Users
    Disney < Warhammer

    Not feeling Araby in this series..
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,346Registered Users
    With the Chaos Dwarfs on the distant horizon, any djinn design probably needs to go out of its way to distance itself from the K'dai Fireborn.

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,806Registered Users
    I honestly don't understand the "Carpets and genies are stereotypical Disney stuff!" argument.

    Aladdin is a Disney retelling of an old Middle-Eastern tale. Djinn, trapped in objects or otherwise, are also common in the folklore of the region. Flying carpets also appear in those tales. This concept are much, much older than Disney.

    The flying carpets and bound djinn were pretty much things that the people of the time generally regarded as things that would be good to have. And that's pretty much what the tone of the fantastical elements of human armies were around the time the Warmaster lists were made (mostly concurrent with late 5th and 6th edition WFB, IIRC). Bretonnia is based on an amalgam of medieval France and England, and gets the practically superhuman knights that go on epic quests as romanticised in the tales of King Arthur and Charlemagne (with the former being the more in-your-face reference) - Pegasus Knights are a later addition, not appearing in time to be included in the Warmaster lists. The more technologically mature Empire gets the Steam Tank, which reflects the military dream of a mobile, gun-bearing fortress that military thinkers and engineers of Europe had been dreaming of pretty much since the guns and cannons entered widespread usage in Europe.

    Djinn obeying your commands and magic items including flying carpets were the things that the people that Araby was based on dreamed about, so those are the fantastical elements of the Araby list.

    The heroes of the tales of medieval Britain and France were questing knights performing heroic deeds, and so Bretonnia gets knights that go out on quests and return imbued with supernatural power if they succeed. The heroes of the tales of North Africa and the Middle East - and yes, that includes Aladdin - employ magical devices (including flying carpets) and the aid of supernatural entities including bound djinn. These elements of Araby are just as valid as Bretonnia's Question and Grail Knights.
  • uriakuriak Posts: 3,421Registered Users
    Maybe I should do some carpet artwork next time ;)
    I don't know exactly if it would be more for a character or some regular troops.
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,671Registered Users
    edited June 2018
    Crossil said:

    All depictions I've seen of Djinns including official as well as this fanart always lacked something to me.

    I do think obscuring their faces is the way to go (but onscured differently) but I'd also like them surrounded by magical thundering clouds.

    The ones from Dreadfleet look more like Elementals of sorts and should be differentiated as such, Djinns should be more of an anthropomorphic magical entity if you ask me.

    Well they will be the test for whether or not CA is capable of making monsters that look like they belong in Warhammer.

    CA might make some small changes with the Djinn Models, like they did with the Dryads, but no way that CA would make drastic changes, like in that Fanart, Warmaster and Dreadfleet have the canon concepts for Djinns, and CA should stay close to the Source Material as much as possible. It's nice Fanart, but it's clearly non-canon, and have very little to do with Warhammer's Djinns, it can be a Djinn for another Settings, but not for Warhammer. If CA will add Araby, they should do it right. And for those that think that Warhammer's Araby is "too stereotypical", ya because Slavs with Bears is totally not stereotypical, and Vikings with Horny Helmets, that they don't had used in real life. Also the latest 'Elemental' look for the Djinns make them look more monstrous, while the Fanart here make the Djinns look more human-like, than even Warmaster's Djinns.

  • uriakuriak Posts: 3,421Registered Users
    edited June 2018
    You seems awfully grounded in canon, this for 2 depictions that are in warmaster case simplified and used as character mounts, and in case of Dreadfleet, just equivalent to spell effects on a ship.

    I don't say they should use something similar to my artwork, but imho Araby is one of the factions where there is the most leeway. Many other factions have experienced quite a lot of graphical changes along editions, something Araby didn't experience at all since they were non existent in the main mini scale.
    That they should stick absolutely to something undevelopped and outdated seems to be a bit baffling in my eyes. They will likely do they own graphical design pass and seek GW approval.
    Afterall the current dryads and trolls don't match much the way they were represented in all editions (I miss the stone trolls look )

    I expect this kind of debate to come back when it will be time to adapt the chaos dwarfs, as their old official rendition and newest Forgeworld model are so distant and frankly don't seem to even belong to the same faction overall.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,806Registered Users
    This is a very valid point. A lot of races have gone through three distinct artistic styles - broadly speaking, the 4/5 style, the 6/7 style, and the 8E style (which in many cases is a mix of the previous two styles). That's also not considering pre-4E stuff, which most people consider to be before the setting really crystallised.

    Consider, for instance, the debate about a year ago on which style of Dark Elves was better, or between some of the demon varieties between editions (Flesh Hounds are one example that changed a lot).

    I would be inclined to say that the work does appear to be a little too human for Warhammer djinn, which in the fluff appear to be either elemental spirits or actual bound demons (probably Tzeentchian). However, the artist's observation is correct: CA does seem to be free not to make exact copies of the models, and this is probably even more true of models that were not made in a 25mm scale to begin with.
  • GW_84GW_84 Posts: 197Registered Users
    CA seem to have the freedom to tweak the looks based on how the Lizardmen look much more feral than the tabletop lizards did. Hope they do the same with Araby. The flying carpet an djinn-in-a-bottle are part of their 1001-nights charm, but I think they can do a bit better than simply making a magical Mamluk/Ottoman crossbreed.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 5,684Registered Users
    Tayvar said:

    Crossil said:

    All depictions I've seen of Djinns including official as well as this fanart always lacked something to me.

    I do think obscuring their faces is the way to go (but onscured differently) but I'd also like them surrounded by magical thundering clouds.

    The ones from Dreadfleet look more like Elementals of sorts and should be differentiated as such, Djinns should be more of an anthropomorphic magical entity if you ask me.

    Well they will be the test for whether or not CA is capable of making monsters that look like they belong in Warhammer.

    CA might make some small changes with the Djinn Models, like they did with the Dryads, but no way that CA would make drastic changes, like in that Fanart, Warmaster and Dreadfleet have the canon concepts for Djinns, and CA should stay close to the Source Material as much as possible. It's nice Fanart, but it's clearly non-canon, and have very little to do with Warhammer's Djinns, it can be a Djinn for another Settings, but not for Warhammer. If CA will add Araby, they should do it right. And for those that think that Warhammer's Araby is "too stereotypical", ya because Slavs with Bears is totally not stereotypical, and Vikings with Horny Helmets, that they don't had used in real life. Also the latest 'Elemental' look for the Djinns make them look more monstrous, while the Fanart here make the Djinns look more human-like, than even Warmaster's Djinns.

    Mate, the Warmaster one is lazy and Dreadfleet one is good but made with an entirely different aesthetic than what's made for WHFB.

    I'm just saying that here they can have some "creative" applied to the designs. And if we want both added than there are ways to differentiate them.

    And the "stereotype" crowd is indeed nonsensical.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,671Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    This is a very valid point. A lot of races have gone through three distinct artistic styles - broadly speaking, the 4/5 style, the 6/7 style, and the 8E style (which in many cases is a mix of the previous two styles). That's also not considering pre-4E stuff, which most people consider to be before the setting really crystallised.

    Consider, for instance, the debate about a year ago on which style of Dark Elves was better, or between some of the demon varieties between editions (Flesh Hounds are one example that changed a lot).

    I would be inclined to say that the work does appear to be a little too human for Warhammer djinn, which in the fluff appear to be either elemental spirits or actual bound demons (probably Tzeentchian). However, the artist's observation is correct: CA does seem to be free not to make exact copies of the models, and this is probably even more true of models that were not made in a 25mm scale to begin with.

    He is not right, he simple don't care about the Source Material, but CA should know better, if you going to draw an "Warhammer Djinn" then make sure that it's looks like Warhammer's Djinn, and not some random Djinn from other Setting, or completely made up, and while it's true GW did changed/updated the Models in later Editions, it's GW who are authorized to do it, not everyone. Also even when GW themselves make big changes it's not always accepted by fans, like in Age of sigmarines case. There is big difference between an Total War Model looking one to one with the Tabletop Model, and between totally ignoring the Source Material and thinking that you make better Warhammer Model's than GW.
  • uriakuriak Posts: 3,421Registered Users
    I don't "care" because GW themselves have many times not "cared" about their own source material*. To the point they have constantly tweaked their main factions and changed their visuals more than once. What I said about it, was that Araby especially had only a minimal and dated aesthetic since they were only featured in Warmaster and had one Dreadfleet cameo. If included as a honest to hearth playable faction in this game today, they'll certainly have a new design phase from CA.

    * and you can bet you'll find people who would say it in a way more passionate manner. Heck some GW decisions /employees still act as triggering words around here.

    If a unit/char for another army only had a derpy old edition mini (think old Nagash) people would certainly suggest new versions too.

  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,671Registered Users
    GW_84 said:

    CA seem to have the freedom to tweak the looks based on how the Lizardmen look much more feral than the tabletop Lizards did. Hope they do the same with Araby. The Flying Carpet an Djinn-in-a-Bottle are part of their 1001-nights charm, but I think they can do a bit better than simply making a magical Mamluk/Ottoman crossbreed.

    There is no official Ottoman theme for Araby, as Gunpowder supposed to be very restricted in Araby.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,806Registered Users
    Tayvar said:

    GW_84 said:

    CA seem to have the freedom to tweak the looks based on how the Lizardmen look much more feral than the tabletop Lizards did. Hope they do the same with Araby. The Flying Carpet an Djinn-in-a-Bottle are part of their 1001-nights charm, but I think they can do a bit better than simply making a magical Mamluk/Ottoman crossbreed.

    There is no official Ottoman theme for Araby, as Gunpowder supposed to be very restricted in Araby.
    I will note that baronblack (I think that's what it was) has commented on what was in the Warmaster Compendium:

    Pistols were available to Desert Riders and carpet riders (was not expecting the latter). Jezzails were character-only.

    (The latter might change on conversion from Warmaster-style to Warhammer-style, but it does indicate that jezzails are pretty rare.)
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,671Registered Users
    uriak said:

    I don't "care" because GW themselves have many times not "cared" about their own source material*. To the point they have constantly tweaked their main factions and changed their visuals more than once. What I said about it, was that Araby especially had only a minimal and dated aesthetic since they were only featured in Warmaster and had one Dreadfleet cameo. If included as a honest to hearth playable faction in this game today, they'll certainly have a new design phase from CA.

    * and you can bet you'll find people who would say it in a way more passionate manner. Heck some GW decisions /employees still act as triggering words around here.

    If a unit/char for another army only had a derpy old edition mini (think old Nagash) people would certainly suggest new versions too.

    Arkhan got updated to his latest End Times model, but other Tomb Kings characters who didn't got new model in the End Times had stayed the same, and even Mannfred's model had stayed the same. Also Bretonnia's models are from the 6th Edition. The new model of Nagash was made by GW, it's not fanmade, so big difference.

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