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Questions - I see many people saying the game is too easy

alstlalstl MemberRegistered Users Posts: 259
I was 0 for 5 using Circenn on vh/vh. Just lowered difficulty to hard and I'm still struggling. One of the things I see people saying is it's easy to make money. It's exactly the opposite for me. I have armies from all directions attacking my minor settlements and it's impossible to avoid bankruptcy.

What tech tree strategy do you employ and have you ever tried Circenn? It seems as if after the patch it is even more difficult to make money.

Comments

  • BlackenedLokiBlackenedLoki Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 152
    After the Patch 'The North' and Scotland have difficulty making any amount of money or sustaining armies in my experience (also VH/VH)

    The best way I've found is to try and upgrade the 'most useful' Civic tech for your early provinces very early on (Strat Clut is Industry for example) and then nearly fully upgrade one or two early provinces to fund your armies. (I struggled to maintain more than 3 15+ stacks though). I was able to complete Strat Clut and Northymbre but not Circenn (not tried the Viking faction yet) Both times it was a damn slow start though.

    I had to abandon my Circenn campaign as by the time I had conquered Scotland, West Saexe and her allies had ALL of the rest of the Mainland, I branched into Northern Ireland but I could never get my economy firing properly to sustain anywhere near the number of armies I needed. Then West Saexe declared war on me and that was that.
    Yes, I am one of those people who liked Rome 2 and yes my opinion is still valid.
  • alstlalstl Member Registered Users Posts: 259

    After the Patch 'The North' and Scotland have difficulty making any amount of money or sustaining armies in my experience (also VH/VH)

    The best way I've found is to try and upgrade the 'most useful' Civic tech for your early provinces very early on (Strat Clut is Industry for example) and then nearly fully upgrade one or two early provinces to fund your armies. (I struggled to maintain more than 3 15+ stacks though). I was able to complete Strat Clut and Northymbre but not Circenn (not tried the Viking faction yet) Both times it was a damn slow start though.

    I had to abandon my Circenn campaign as by the time I had conquered Scotland, West Saexe and her allies had ALL of the rest of the Mainland, I branched into Northern Ireland but I could never get my economy firing properly to sustain anywhere near the number of armies I needed. Then West Saexe declared war on me and that was that.

    What tech did you upgrade in Circenn? I've never been able to afford more than one stack of 15 with a few single unit generals roaming around raiding just to try to stay above bankruptcy. The biggest problem is exposure to half a dozen factions which attack smaller settlements and without smaller settlements food and money are gone. I simply can't field enough armies to protect my land.
  • BlackenedLokiBlackenedLoki Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 152
    edited June 13
    Agriculture, because the Subbterrien thing is so damn useful for Circenn, also you need to make some hard choices in your main cities on what you can build as money and food are so rare in Scotland. (If I remember correctly, I had to demolish some already existing buildings to get more useful ones on turn 1)

    Also, I found it also depends on what other factions are doing, you can only really fight one war at once early on because your land is so long and thin, I focused on wiping out Orkney first as they were the biggest threat to me (and most aggressive) but if Strat Clut or either of your allies betray you then you're pretty much doomed! :lol:

    I had about a 15 stack to tackle Orkney and a cheap as 5/6 ish stack in the southern main settlement to bolster the garrison and retake any small settlements that I lost.

    A couple of good victories and some luck with war declarations and you can make slow progress I found.
    Yes, I am one of those people who liked Rome 2 and yes my opinion is still valid.
  • tak22tak22 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,267
    I got short conquest on H/H with Circenn; I suspect from what you're saying difficulty has a lot to do with it - so what I say may not help. In no particular order:

    1. There are a lot of timber resources around; at lev. 3-5 these grant increasing cost decreases to building in neighbouring provinces. Couple that with some high-level governors (and the traits they can get from being in lev. 3+ cities) and construction costs get very reasonable in a hurry.
    2. Early game you can only afford 1 large stack and one smaller backup stack. For levelling purposes, it's good if you can have them work together as much as possible. Quartermaster trait at higher levels does help with upkeep, as well as moving your armies back and forth across your kingdom rapidly to defend.
    3. Against Vikings etc. play defensively; beat back their armies and (if possible) get peace treaties. Against your smaller neighbours, though, fight for a total victory, even if you have to lose territory on a different front - if you capture ground aggressively, you can make up for it, and then go take back what you lost.
    4. Industry research again gives you reduced building costs, as well as boosting your main source of income, and granting a movement bonus.
    5. The Scottish lowlands have a lot of industry and agriculture to help boost your economy. You can't afford to get stuck in to a pitched war - but watch for opportunities. If you manage to get peace on your borders while your neighbours to the south are weak or busy fighting on another front, snap up as much land as you can as quickly as possible.
    6. Souterrains everywhere, ASAP.

    (Note, I think I may also have lucked out on my playthrough as Athfochla attacked Fortriu early on, and I wiped out Athfochla in response before some of the narrative events I'm aware of with them triggered.)
  • alstlalstl Member Registered Users Posts: 259

    Agriculture, because the Subbterrien thing is so damn useful for Circenn, also you need to make some hard choices in your main cities on what you can build as money and food are so rare in Scotland. (If I remember correctly, I had to demolish some already existing buildings to get more useful ones on turn 1)

    Also, I found it also depends on what other factions are doing, you can only really fight one war at once early on because your land is so long and thin, I focused on wiping out Orkney first as they were the biggest threat to me (and most aggressive) but if Strat Clut or either of your allies betray you then you're pretty much doomed! :lol:

    I had about a 15 stack to tackle Orkney and a cheap as 5/6 ish stack in the southern main settlement to bolster the garrison and retake any small settlements that I lost.

    A couple of good victories and some luck with war declarations and you can make slow progress I found.

    Part of my problem might be when my ally goes to war with another faction I support them which invariably results in being invaded from the other faction. How much downside is there to not joining your ally in going to war?
  • cato14cato14 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 13
    edited June 13

    After the Patch 'The North' and Scotland have difficulty making any amount of money or sustaining armies in my experience (also VH/VH)

    The best way I've found is to try and upgrade the 'most useful' Civic tech for your early provinces very early on (Strat Clut is Industry for example) and then nearly fully upgrade one or two early provinces to fund your armies. (I struggled to maintain more than 3 15+ stacks though). I was able to complete Strat Clut and Northymbre but not Circenn (not tried the Viking faction yet) Both times it was a damn slow start though.

    I had to abandon my Circenn campaign as by the time I had conquered Scotland, West Saexe and her allies had ALL of the rest of the Mainland, I branched into Northern Ireland but I could never get my economy firing properly to sustain anywhere near the number of armies I needed. Then West Saexe declared war on me and that was that.


    Are you playing with any mods cause ive just experiences the exact opposite.

    i just gave up on a 250+ turn campaign as strat clut playing at VH/H setttings and after the first 100 turns it was a complete borefest. i cant even force myself to finish the ultimate victory as im swimming in money and full army stacks.

    to be fair the first 100 turns can be tough and i had to do multiple restarts but once you get a few provinces and some cash to afford 3 or 4 stacks its game over.

    im really gutted because it was all looking like a big showdown with west saexe was gonna happen as they had 80% of england plus dyflin had most of ireland and i had all of scotland. no one declared war at me at any point which ive experienced a lot of the campaigns ive played so far

    i moved 5 stacks to the english border, hopin that would be enough but after declaring was i then spent the next hour takin all their land with facing a SINGLE stack, as in nothing. i realise AI aint perfect but my experience above felt like there WASNT an AI, just a series of provinces waiting to be captured.

    i want to like TOB but after experiencing the above i dont think im play it anymore due to the time ive wasted on what i have described above.

    i actually like all the new features and i love the setting but im startin to question what demographic this game is aimed at. maybe what ive described above is what most total war fans now are after.


    its also worrying that this game has by looking at the top 100 steam games being played failed to retain any sort of playerbase and maybe the devs will just write it off.


    il be posting this along with the save game in the bug forum in the hope that it is indeed a bug and it might be fixed.

    ps,

    i think the AI passiveness once you get to a certain fame threshhold is due to the diplomatic bonus you get with all factions once you have enough fame.

    In the above save game my relations with the next strongest faction dyflin are increasing to the huge diplomatic bonus im getting.

    this is reversed from previous total war games. in rome 2 for example, the more powerful you got the more the other factions disliked you which made complete sense.
    Post edited by cato14 on
  • alstlalstl Member Registered Users Posts: 259
    cato14 said:

    After the Patch 'The North' and Scotland have difficulty making any amount of money or sustaining armies in my experience (also VH/VH)

    The best way I've found is to try and upgrade the 'most useful' Civic tech for your early provinces very early on (Strat Clut is Industry for example) and then nearly fully upgrade one or two early provinces to fund your armies. (I struggled to maintain more than 3 15+ stacks though). I was able to complete Strat Clut and Northymbre but not Circenn (not tried the Viking faction yet) Both times it was a damn slow start though.

    I had to abandon my Circenn campaign as by the time I had conquered Scotland, West Saexe and her allies had ALL of the rest of the Mainland, I branched into Northern Ireland but I could never get my economy firing properly to sustain anywhere near the number of armies I needed. Then West Saexe declared war on me and that was that.


    Are you playing with any mods cause ive just experiences the exact opposite.

    i just gave up on a 250+ turn campaign as strat clut playing at VH/H setttings and after the first 100 turns it was a complete borefest. i cant even force myself to finish the ultimate victory as im swimming in money and full army stacks.

    to be fair the first 100 turns can be tough and i had to do multiple restarts but once you get a few provinces and some cash to afford 3 or 4 stacks its game over.

    im really gutted because it was all looking like a big showdown with west saexe was gonna happen as they had 80% of england plus dyflin had most of ireland and i had all of scotland. no one declared war at me at any point which ive experienced a lot of the campaigns ive played so far

    i moved 5 stacks to the english border, hopin that would be enough but after declaring was i then spent the next hour takin all their land with facing a SINGLE stack, as in nothing. i realise AI aint perfect but my experience above felt like there WASNT an AI, just a series of provinces waiting to be captured.

    i want to like TOB but after experiencing the above i dont think im play it anymore due to the time ive wasted on what i have described above.

    i actually like all the new features and i love the setting but im startin to question what demographic this game is aimed at. maybe what ive described above is what most total war fans now are after.


    its also worrying that this game has by looking at the top 100 steam games being played failed to retain any sort of playerbase and maybe the devs will just write it off.


    il be posting this along with the save game in the bug forum in the hope that it is indeed a bug and it might be fixed.

    ps,

    i think the AI passiveness once you get to a certain fame threshhold is due to the diplomatic bonus you get with all factions once you have enough fame.

    In the above save game my relations with the next strongest faction dyflin are increasing to the huge diplomatic bonus im getting.

    this is reversed from previous total war games. in rome 2 for example, the more powerful you got the more the other factions disliked you which made complete sense.
    Multiple restarts - what is a restart? Restart from scratch or restart from a saved game?
  • cato14cato14 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 13
    From scratch. As ive said above the first few turns can be tricky but once i survived past that i could start to build.

    as i was getting stronger so were dyflin and west saexe and i could feel an epic war coming. that epic war never happended though as ive described above.

    so disappointing.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,274
    Actually in Rome2 the more powerful you got the more fearful everone else was and so they left you alone to pick your targets at will.

  • alstlalstl Member Registered Users Posts: 259
    cato14 said:

    From scratch. As ive said above the first few turns can be tricky but once i survived past that i could start to build.

    as i was getting stronger so were dyflin and west saexe and i could feel an epic war coming. that epic war never happended though as ive described above.

    so disappointing.

    Maybe you should try Circenn then if you are finding the game too easy. If you still find it easy then please explain to me how to survive.

    If somebody could tell me how to avoid having my king get assassinated I'd also appreciate that since it seems to equate to automatic loss of the campaign as all the generals revolt.
  • BlackenedLokiBlackenedLoki Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 152
    alstl said:

    cato14 said:

    From scratch. As ive said above the first few turns can be tricky but once i survived past that i could start to build.

    as i was getting stronger so were dyflin and west saexe and i could feel an epic war coming. that epic war never happended though as ive described above.

    so disappointing.

    Maybe you should try Circenn then if you are finding the game too easy. If you still find it easy then please explain to me how to survive.

    If somebody could tell me how to avoid having my king get assassinated I'd also appreciate that since it seems to equate to automatic loss of the campaign as all the generals revolt.
    Aed survived the assassination attempt in my game, which was SO helpful as my heir was terrible at the time.

    Also, your eventual aim is to conquer or absorb both your allies so if they declare war when you're not ready then I tend to break the alliance... Let them become occupied with a war which helps keep your border with them safe for a few more turns.
    Yes, I am one of those people who liked Rome 2 and yes my opinion is still valid.
  • alstlalstl Member Registered Users Posts: 259

    alstl said:

    cato14 said:

    From scratch. As ive said above the first few turns can be tricky but once i survived past that i could start to build.

    as i was getting stronger so were dyflin and west saexe and i could feel an epic war coming. that epic war never happended though as ive described above.

    so disappointing.

    Maybe you should try Circenn then if you are finding the game too easy. If you still find it easy then please explain to me how to survive.

    If somebody could tell me how to avoid having my king get assassinated I'd also appreciate that since it seems to equate to automatic loss of the campaign as all the generals revolt.
    Aed survived the assassination attempt in my game, which was SO helpful as my heir was terrible at the time.

    Also, your eventual aim is to conquer or absorb both your allies so if they declare war when you're not ready then I tend to break the alliance... Let them become occupied with a war which helps keep your border with them safe for a few more turns.
    Two things which are very frustrating are the assassination and an army being kicked out of a major settlement without a battle. The assassination is the worst because it seems to be random and is a campaign ending event after dozens of hours spent on the campaign. Army being kicked out of a major settlement - why not let me fight a battle to decide whether or not I get kicked out. Assassination - I think it was Attila which allowed placing an agent with the general or faction leader precisely to avoid assassination. If I quit playing the game - which will probably happen - those will be two major causes.
  • BlackenedLokiBlackenedLoki Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 152
    The assassination is a randomly occurring scripted event, (you could try save spamming, to avoid it) or, in the knowledge that it will definitely occur (successful or not) get yourself an awesome heir to be ready to simply step in with minimal disruption.

    I don't think I've ever had an army kicked out of a city... is that a revolt/rebellion thing?
    Yes, I am one of those people who liked Rome 2 and yes my opinion is still valid.
  • tak22tak22 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,267
    It is an event that depends on Athfochla, though, if I understand right - I never had it in my Circenn campaign, but I took out Athfochla early on (not a strategy, just RP since they attacked my relative in Fortriu). But the fact that it doesn't seem to happen if you wipe out Athfochla (and the fact that in my current Gwined campaign I got the notification for it after Athfochla had been wiped out and then reemerged as a faction) makes me think it is connected to Athfochla existing on the campaign map.
  • alstlalstl Member Registered Users Posts: 259
    tak22 said:

    It is an event that depends on Athfochla, though, if I understand right - I never had it in my Circenn campaign, but I took out Athfochla early on (not a strategy, just RP since they attacked my relative in Fortriu). But the fact that it doesn't seem to happen if you wipe out Athfochla (and the fact that in my current Gwined campaign I got the notification for it after Athfochla had been wiped out and then reemerged as a faction) makes me think it is connected to Athfochla existing on the campaign map.

    If I decide to start a 7th campaign with Circenn I'll immediately take out Athfochla but I've decided to park this game for awhile.

    Thanks for the reply.
  • alstlalstl Member Registered Users Posts: 259
    edited June 15

    The assassination is a randomly occurring scripted event, (you could try save spamming, to avoid it) or, in the knowledge that it will definitely occur (successful or not) get yourself an awesome heir to be ready to simply step in with minimal disruption.

    I don't think I've ever had an army kicked out of a city... is that a revolt/rebellion thing?

    I think it is a governor thing but the odd thing is I still have a general and an army but when I start the next turn I'm suddenly outside the city. Did the entire army go on vacation and couldn't get back into the city?

    IRL the governor would have to forcibly remove my army from the city. Unfortunately regarding the heir there is no heir old enough to take over for Aed and I end up with a caretaker who doesn't have the support of the generals who all revolt and game over.

    I really like other aspects of the game but it is frustrating to spend hours on the game and then have these odd events bring an abrupt end to everything.
  • zmey_gorinichzmey_gorinich Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 173
    edited June 18
    alstl said:

    I was 0 for 5 using Circenn on vh/vh. Just lowered difficulty to hard and I'm still struggling. One of the things I see people saying is it's easy to make money. It's exactly the opposite for me. I have armies from all directions attacking my minor settlements and it's impossible to avoid bankruptcy.

    What tech tree strategy do you employ and have you ever tried Circenn? It seems as if after the patch it is even more difficult to make money.

    Playing as Circenn now on VH. Around turn 170 now and no problems with money.

    One thing I do though, I use a mod that gives small garrisons to minor settlements. The garrisons are weak though and stand now chance against any full stack. In my view, the garrisons just give more chance for my generals to level up.

    With Circenn you have to take it very slow at the beginning. When two of your allies go to war with each other, better take the reputation hit and abandon those alliances (you want those lands anyway). Attack them one at a time later.

    If your king gets assassinated, then you're royally screwed... As your heir is a minor at the start.
  • alstlalstl Member Registered Users Posts: 259

    alstl said:

    I was 0 for 5 using Circenn on vh/vh. Just lowered difficulty to hard and I'm still struggling. One of the things I see people saying is it's easy to make money. It's exactly the opposite for me. I have armies from all directions attacking my minor settlements and it's impossible to avoid bankruptcy.

    What tech tree strategy do you employ and have you ever tried Circenn? It seems as if after the patch it is even more difficult to make money.

    Playing as Circenn now on VH. Around turn 170 now and no problems with money.

    One thing I do though, I use a mod that gives small garrisons to minor settlements. The garrisons are weak though and stand now chance against any full stack. In my view, the garrisons just give more chance for my generals to level up.

    With Circenn you have to take it very slow at the beginning. When two of your allies go to war with each other, better take the reputation hit and abandon those alliances (you want those lands anyway). Attack them one at a time later.

    If your king gets assassinated, then you're royally screwed... As your heir is a minor at the start.
    The garrisons in minor settlements I'm sure are a difference maker. I like most of what they have done with the game but IRL I doubt one general with 30 men on a horse could take over most of Scotland.

    You're right about the King - is he gets assassinated it's over and it seems to be completely random.

    Thanks for the reply.
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