An Official Statement on Loyalty Events/Reinforcement Directions

TheShiroOfDalton

Dear CA,

please let us know once and for all whether you actually plan to fix these two issues at all. I've not seen them in the notes for tomorrow's patch and I find that absolutely infuriating because these should be very high on the priority list. It might be that they have been fixed and it's just not been notified, but I want that to be clarified ASAP.

DE and Skaven without loyalty events means that one of their racial mechanics isn't working correctly to the point of not working at all. This makes it almost impossible to play as them because I know I'm playing with broken factions.
Reinforcement directions being borked up means the player can get screwed through not fault of his own. This should never be the case in any strategy game.

Please, let us know whether these are even on your radar.

seamonkeymadness#6162

Agreed.

I want to start a new DE campaign to see the Kharybydibydibdys in action, but would be a bit flat without the dilemmas.

Reeks#2417

+1

Very rarely do CA respond to any bugs and/or changes in mechanics if they don´t have immediate plans to rectify the issues no matter how much the player base pleads for it.

neverending#5226

Reeks said:

+1

Very rarely do CA respond to any bugs and/or changes in mechanics if they don´t have immediate plans to rectify the issues no matter how much the player base pleads for it.

Unfortunately I think this is because if CA says they're making something, many times it does not come to pass. That doesn't bode well for the bug fixes: They might not come if ever, since CA is being silent about them.

Nemox#3260

I wish those bugs received half as much attention as Hellebron's did.

innerp

Nemox said:

I wish those bugs received half as much attention as Hellebron's did.

just need a popular youtuber to make a highlight video for each one and we may actually get something done. the loyalty events were supposed to have been fixed with the norsca patch and they are still broken?

Reeks#2417

innerp said:

Nemox said:

I wish those bugs received half as much attention as Hellebron's did.

just need a popular youtuber to make a highlight video for each one and we may actually get something done. the loyalty events were supposed to have been fixed with the norsca patch and they are still broken?

If the youtuber in question start to focus too much on bugs he might lose EA and in turn ending up getting less revenue, we rarely see honest criticism of CA´s policies from any of the youtuber´s with EA tbh

epic_159733007811cHJwei4

Agreed.

uriak

Glad to see this topic getting traction

Ilyandir#6699

Agreed. I had to restrain my self from posting on the patch notes thread yesterday when I saw no reinforcement fix as anything I would have said wouldn't have been polite.

Draxynnic#3149

If it hasn't been quietly fixed with today's patch, I can definitely see it getting more attention afterwards. Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people have been holding off on playing Druchii until the Monstrous Secret hit, so a lot more people will be experiencing it if it isn't fixed after the patch.

daelin4#9896

There are loyalty events for these factions? Never even heard of them.

Shaal_

daelin4 said:

There are loyalty events for these factions? Never even heard of them.

Neither. Malekith and Morathi campaigns both completed.
Maybe they were talking about DE rites.

GettoGecko#7861

Can you explain why these things should be very high on the priorty list? DE have lots of items and skills so that you will basically never run into low loyalty so that leaves us with skaven only and while I played them very often I only had it once that some freaked out lord stole my army and that was in my first playthrough while the dilema was working but only gave me two or three turns more before he rebelled so that they doesn't helped me in the end. Basically having them work or not makes little to no difference for me.

Reinforcement direction, well yeah it sucks when its happen but how often does it shows a slightly off indicator? For me less than 5% of the time and yeah you have to adjust a little bit than but honestly somehow its fun because you can't always plan on the battlefield and it makes these fights a little more interesting.

Now to the meme part, when I could choose between fixing these two things and a Ghorgon... go team Ghorgon!!! And never touch these issues.

So for me these both things have a very low to non existent priority.

daelin4#9896

Shaal_ said:

daelin4 said:

There are loyalty events for these factions? Never even heard of them.

Neither. Malekith and Morathi campaigns both completed.
Maybe they were talking about DE rites.

There might have been some events that due to bugs was unlikely to trigger over the course of a campaign.

I mean, with the way Lizardmen Blessed Spawns work in mine, if it weren't for a button that says there are Blessed Spawns, I would have never even realized that's a feature this race has!

Or what also has happened: the complete lack of Rogue Armies in the game until CA actually listed it as a fix. If you just bought Warhamer 2 in the last couple of weeks, you'd probably be wondering wtf that is!

TheShiroOfDalton

daelin4 said:

There are loyalty events for these factions? Never even heard of them.

They worked fine before the TK update. Every time you hire a lord for the Skaven or DE, a dilemma pops up not long after that let's you trade that recruit's loyalty for campaign bonuses or vice versa. These dilemmas also pop up when someone's at very high loyalty and the tradeoffs for keeping them loyal can be quite strong. After the TK update, they are all gone or start and then have no resolution after you make your choice.

Without these it's way, way too easy to keep both Skaven and DE lords at maximum loyalty throughout the campaign.

It's a flavourful racial mechanic which robs those two factions of quite a bit of their supposed canon personality (that of social-darwinistic and egotistical schemers).

GettoGecko said:

Can you explain why these things should be very high on the priorty list?

Because without these those two races carry the stench of broken toys. I don't want to play as a race when it's so obviously not functioning as it should.

Reinforcement directions screw-ups happen frequently enough that you cannot play even a single campaign without encountering them at least once and they punish the player through no fault of his own.

Shaal_

Maybe the OP should explain what those loyalty events are.

I do repeat myself.

If you hire a DE lord with a 3 loyalty you're looking for troubles.

I don't know if hellebrone campaign is having those troubles since i've delayed it untill the hotfix.

As for the reinforcement bug yes it's annoying but challenging. You have to micro, that's all.

Also in reality it may happen, and happened so many times in some many real battles, that friendly troops deployed on the wrong side of the battlefield and got friendly fired up. Afganistan, Iraq, you pick.

Idk I should join the ghorgon team aswell

TheShiroOfDalton

Shaal_ said:

Maybe the OP should explain what those loyalty events are.

I just did.



Also, STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR REALLY OBVIOUS BUGS!

DerpyRoxas

Totally on you on the reinforcement bug. Old World campaigns battles have ALWAYS this problem (does not happen so much in the Vortex)

uriak

As said in my testing thread, the big thing with the loyaly, is that I expected, after waiting a while, to be able to play campaigns with most bugs fixed, and just learnt that existing features had been deactivated in the meantime.

Even if it's minor - and campaign mechanics are all about adding flavor so they really aren't - it sets a very worrying precedent, when you consider that other factions integrated into ME have been plagued by broken skills/Quests. It's not even aknowledged. If people are okay with this, can we expect even more old stuff to be broken in the future? Like a DoW faction pack that breaks the geomantic web? No more influence events for HE at all? Grudges deactivated for dwarfs?

Shaal_

Don't get me wrong. I've already said it. There's a reinforcement bug. Not a loyalty one as far as DE are involved.
If you hire a DE lord with a loyalty 3 and you give him an army you can be sure that he will rebel in 5 turns.
It's up to the players to risk and to pay the consequences of their choices.
In my Malekith campaign an HE 2 stacks was trying to siege one capital and i choosed, I choosed, to hire a lord loyalty lvl 4. The HE 2 stacks headed elsewhere and my 4 loyalty lord rebelled the turn after.
I can blame only myself, not CA.

That's for what I know. If there are more DE loyalty bugs please explain because I can't understand.

As for the rest some people will be never satisfied and they will be always looking for bugs.
They aren't interested at all in playing a videogame, and this is a videogame, they just want to troll.

uriak

There are dilemma events supposed to trigger from high, low and critical loyalty lords. These will made you trade loyalty for advantages or disadvantages in the campaign. They worked before and if you check the game data file they all exist, and should work if not for something be don't know about.

Shaal_

uriak said:

There are dilemma events supposed to trigger from high, low and critical loyalty lords. These will made you trade loyalty for advantages or disadvantages in the campaign. They worked before and if you check the game data file they all exist, and should work if not for something be don't know about.

Thanks for the explanation uriak. I assume they are like with public order penalties random events.
I don't know if they work as intended or not, lets be crystal clear about this.
All I know is that I finished 2 DE campaign almost one month ago with no problem at all, well Surta Ek chariots armies apart

https://i.redditmedia.com/4ehqtVJnBnDT2xWVIzw3kNjCHdP-hGd2sBFfJMPautc.png?fit=crop&crop=faces,entropy&arh=2&w=960&s=57ef7176e316693961c898b04d73acd6

TheShiroOfDalton

Shaal_ said:

As for the rest some people will be never satisfied and they will be always looking for bugs.
They aren't interested at all in playing a videogame, and this is a videogame, they just want to troll.

This is not some minor bug that happens only when the stars are aligned and Cthulhu stirs, this bug is really on the nose and disables the racial mechanics of two entire races. Would you prefer if CA broke all racial mechanics one by one and never bothered to repair them? Maybe with today's update, forging gets bugged up and TK and Dwarfs can no longer make use of it. Are you prepared to call those who would be bemoaning this trolls, too?

tgoodenow#9235

Don’t know much about loyalty bug
But +1 on reinforcements. Makes spam Calvary builds OP as hell

harngerstein#5553

Guys these loyalty events are similar to the Moon Events for the Beastmen. They pop up like influence events do for High Elves. They give campaign bonuses, followers and loyalty. They are a feature of the DE and SK races, like blessed spawns and monster hunts and chivalry and the wild hunt.

I can understand why you may have never encountered them, as they were added after ME and have been broken since TK. However, it is a feature that is bugged, and a pretty significant one for these two factions. It should be fixed. You saying these bugs are minor and not necessary for fixing is like saying the VC should not have gotten the raise dead fix. Its not necessary to win the campaign with, but its a race mechanic that helps define their campaigns.

I can't believe I have to argue for fixing campaign bugs...

TheShiroOfDalton

So the patch drops in about two hours. If loyalty events are not fixed then I demand an explanation.

Loyalty is central to one of the races that received the latest DLC, they have no excuse for not having noticed its absence while developing it.

FrostPaw#5051

Reinforcement has been broken and fixed way too often, I can't figure out why it's so fragile. It's such a an important aspect of strategy. I hope it's fixed and just not mentioned.

As for entire factions missing events.....Was it ever confirmed to be a bug? Is it possible they were taken out due to feedback?

Its difficult to know when the maker won't acknowledge it. Working as intended or too embarrassing/annoying to admit, is impossible to discern.

Iron00

GettoGecko said:

Can you explain why these things should be very high on the priorty list? DE have lots of items and skills so that you will basically never run into low loyalty so that leaves us with skaven only and while I played them very often I only had it once that some freaked out lord stole my army and that was in my first playthrough while the dilema was working but only gave me two or three turns more before he rebelled so that they doesn't helped me in the end. Basically having them work or not makes little to no difference for me.

Reinforcement direction, well yeah it sucks when its happen but how often does it shows a slightly off indicator? For me less than 5% of the time and yeah you have to adjust a little bit than but honestly somehow its fun because you can't always plan on the battlefield and it makes these fights a little more interesting.

Now to the meme part, when I could choose between fixing these two things and a Ghorgon... go team Ghorgon!!! And never touch these issues.

So for me these both things have a very low to non existent priority.

Totally disagree. Unique racial mechanics or campaign elements and anything battle related are far more important to the quality of the game than a new unit.

MrJade

@CA_Ella @CA_Duck @CA_Whelan @Grace_CA @Mitch_CA

Any comments? Can anyone tell the player base if a broken racial mechanic will be fixed within 6 months?

neverending#5226

MrJade said:

@CA_Ella @CA_Duck @CA_Whelan @Grace_CA @Mitch_CA

Any comments? Can anyone tell the player base if a broken racial mechanic will be fixed within 6 months?

IMO, the reinforcement bug is more pressing (affects every race AFAIK), but both are indeed very glaring.