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Kislev Legendary Lords

WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 2,201
Okay so this is a simple inquiry regarding Kislev in game three. If it's a race pack, we'll have Tzar Boris and Tzarina Katarin as LLs by default, but assuming they are either core or a campaign pack for a moment, are there any other good candidates for LLs for them?

Thanks in advance.
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Comments

  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Registered Users Posts: 3,367
    Khan-Queen Miska

    Horselord who laid the foundation for what would become Kislev by forcing the Empire to take notice and recognize her people at the point of a sword. Speaking of sword, her own sword Fearfrost became a treasured artifact of Kislev. She rode North to stave off a threat only she saw and vanished to time.

    Tzarina Shoika

    Maybe not the best option considering her mother is Miska. But still the first Tzarina. There's a very Nobunaga-Tokugawa esk story here. While Miska created what would become Kislev from the back of a saddle and axe, Shoika is the one who laid the foundation for it's administration. Creating one of the few Human Empires to stand shoulder to shoulder alongside the Empire. A management genius as it were.

    For units it's important to remember two things. First off every Kislevite is born in the saddle. So while Brettonia may have a monopoly on heavy cav, Kislev has them beat hands down no contest in the light cav department. Second off they have significantly fewer infantry than they do cav. To a point where infantry units are something of a rarity used only when necessary at a draft usually when expecting a rough siege they couldnt prevent. Lastly their units are not derived from one peoples, but two. The Gospodar and the Ungol.

    Infantry:

    Kossars- Light infantry predominately Ungol in origin. Armed and exceptionally deadly with an axe and bow. Where Ungol examples of these guys have them take their same light armor tactics from cav to foot, Gospodars adopt a bit more Imperial armor and discipline.

    Streltsi- Shot and pike tactics predominately Gospodar in origin. Halberds and handguns, not much more to say.

    Kreml Guard- The elite. Wear heavy armor and wield massive halberds. As close to a Warrior of Chaos a southern human can get.

    Cavalry, the bulk of Kislev forces:

    Ungol Horse Archers- The bulk of Kislev forces. Equally skilled with an axe but prefer to skirmish and harass with a bow. Think mongol and you aren't far off.

    Winged Lancers- Arguably the second most iconic Kislev unit. Gospodar in origin, winged calvary lancers with one hellava charge. Once the enemy has softened up or goes wandering after the skirmishing cav, these guys sweep in and crush the stragglers.

    Gryphon Legion- Like Winged Lancers but scaled up to 11. Could 100% put to contest any Elite cav outside the big three. Blood Knights, Grail Knights, and Chaos Knights are the only thing that might give the Gryphon Legion pause.

    Bear Cavalry- The most iconic unit of the Kislevites, no contest. It's a big angry Russian dude riding atop a **** armored bear. Use your imagination.

    Monsters and Other Things:

    Artillery- The Gospodars adopted quite a bit of imperial culture. Cannons and mortars being one such adaptation. Significantly less refined but it's there.

    Monsters and stuff- Trained Bears of course. Don't need a rider to point a Bear at the enemy and tell it go wild. It's a bear what the hell are they going to do to stop it. If you wanted to get REALLY crazy an argument could be made about Ice Elementals as well.

    They are the only force in the Warhammer universe to employ Ice Magic. Their monopoly on it is legendary, and it does everything you'd expect from supernatural Ice. Build walls in an instant, give everyone the sniffles, turn everyone into a modern art exhibit, it's Ice.

    For a unique Campaign mechanic, the Kislevites believe the Ice, cold, and snow to be their best friend. Able to survive in it better than any other "civilized" nation. This, combined with their Ice Magic, gives them a neat unique opportunity. They could possibly rewrite the environment. Spreading Ice and Snow wherever they go so long as it's connected to some other frozen land. Allowing them to creep across the world, while simultaneously rendering it harder to take their lands back.

    Combined with the two LL's you already mentioned, this is Kislev in a nutshell. Copy, paste, repeat anytime someone asks what Kislev might have or look like.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877
    If Kislev would be a Mini-DLC for Pre-Order like Norsca, they don't need more than 2 Legendary Lords.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 5,951
    There are in backstory material, probably, I guess.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877

    Khan-Queen Miska

    Horselord who laid the foundation for what would become Kislev by forcing the Empire to take notice and recognize her people at the point of a sword. Speaking of sword, her own sword Fearfrost became a treasured artifact of Kislev. She rode North to stave off a threat only she saw and vanished to time.

    Tzarina Shoika

    Maybe not the best option considering her mother is Miska. But still the first Tzarina. There's a very Nobunaga-Tokugawa esk story here. While Miska created what would become Kislev from the back of a saddle and axe, Shoika is the one who laid the foundation for it's administration. Creating one of the few Human Empires to stand shoulder to shoulder alongside the Empire. A management genius as it were.

    Actually both are bad options for that Timeline, how many Queens/Tzarinas do you think that Kislev have at the same time? they both are Retired, and more than likely Dead.
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Registered Users Posts: 3,367
    edited July 2018
    Tayvar said:

    Khan-Queen Miska

    Horselord who laid the foundation for what would become Kislev by forcing the Empire to take notice and recognize her people at the point of a sword. Speaking of sword, her own sword Fearfrost became a treasured artifact of Kislev. She rode North to stave off a threat only she saw and vanished to time.

    Tzarina Shoika

    Maybe not the best option considering her mother is Miska. But still the first Tzarina. There's a very Nobunaga-Tokugawa esk story here. While Miska created what would become Kislev from the back of a saddle and axe, Shoika is the one who laid the foundation for it's administration. Creating one of the few Human Empires to stand shoulder to shoulder alongside the Empire. A management genius as it were.

    Actually both are bad options for that Timeline, how many Queens/Tzarinas do you think that Kislev have at the same time? they both are Retired, and more than likely Dead.
    No both are guaranteed dead. Or at least one confirmed dead. Miska went missing but outside some magic mumbo jumbo she died of old age or the venerable decapitation.

    But the question was not which are going to be in but which could be in. Tzar Boris did not rule at the same time as the Ice Queen. But you'd need both to have a convincing Kislev Roster. There just isn't any other option for Lords as far as Kislev is concerned outside of the various Khans/Tzars/Tzarinas. That's where all the big names come from.

    And besides. It wouldn't be the first time that CA played with available characters to the time. If you want underdeveloped factions as an option, going to have to bend a little. Unless we're counting fan made lists. Which I sure as hell won't.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877

    Tayvar said:

    Khan-Queen Miska

    Horselord who laid the foundation for what would become Kislev by forcing the Empire to take notice and recognize her people at the point of a sword. Speaking of sword, her own sword Fearfrost became a treasured artifact of Kislev. She rode North to stave off a threat only she saw and vanished to time.

    Tzarina Shoika

    Maybe not the best option considering her mother is Miska. But still the first Tzarina. There's a very Nobunaga-Tokugawa esk story here. While Miska created what would become Kislev from the back of a saddle and axe, Shoika is the one who laid the foundation for it's administration. Creating one of the few Human Empires to stand shoulder to shoulder alongside the Empire. A management genius as it were.

    Actually both are bad options for that Timeline, how many Queens/Tzarinas do you think that Kislev have at the same time? they both are Retired, and more than likely Dead.
    No both are guaranteed dead. Or at least one confirmed dead. Miska went missing but outside some magic mumbo jumbo she died of old age or the venerable decapitation.

    But the question was not which are going to be in but which could be in. Tzar Boris did not rule at the same time as the Ice Queen. But you'd need both to have a convincing Kislev Roster. There just isn't any other option for Lords as far as Kislev is concerned outside of the various Khans/Tzars/Tzarinas. That's where all the big names come from.

    And besides. It wouldn't be the first time that CA played with available characters to the time. If you want underdeveloped factions as an option, going to have to bend a little. Unless we're counting fan made lists. Which I sure as hell won't.
    The question is about Candidates for Legendary Lords and not about Warhammer's History, how Dead Characters can be Candidates? unless they are Undead or Daemons. Boris and Katarin can logically work, but only if CA would make Katarin a Princess instead of Queen/Tzarina or if Boris would Retire without Dying, something that did not happen in the Lore. Anyway Named Boyars and/or Ice Witches would be far better Candidates than Long Dead Tzarinas.
  • PilthoidPilthoid Registered Users Posts: 203
    I don't think Bear Cav is official, is it? Isn't that just from that fan made Kislev book?
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877
    Pilthoid said:

    I don't think Bear Cav is official, is it? Isn't that just from that fan made Kislev book?

    They don't have Official Models, but the Bears was mentioned when the Empire got Demigryphs.
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Registered Users Posts: 3,367
    Plus Boris rides a bear. If he can do it, goes to follow at least someone else in Kislev followed his example. Also to the guy above arguing how a dead guy would make a lord...Boris is dead. So that leaves us with exactly one possible LL candidate. If Kislev gets a roster, they will have characters who have already died as LL options, or they won't have LL options. Unless they're made up by CA.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877

    Plus Boris rides a bear. If he can do it, goes to follow at least someone else in Kislev followed his example. Also to the guy above arguing how a dead guy would make a lord...Boris is dead. So that leaves us with exactly one possible LL candidate. If Kislev gets a roster, they will have characters who have already died as LL options, or they won't have LL options. Unless they're made up by CA.

    His main mistake was in mentioning Tzar Boris and his daughter as a Tzarina in the same line. Boris died in 2517 IC, Karl Franz Coronation was in 2502 IC, so in fact Boris died sooner in Total War.

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Boris_Bokha
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Registered Users Posts: 3,367
    What I'm saying here is that do not get hung up on when or if that Lord is toasted evenly on both sides. Kislev isn't super deep for character options. Boris is dead. Miska and Shoika both long dead. Katarina is the only LL that still breathes air and not dirt in the Kislev Lord list.

    But having said that it's ok to bring up dead characters into Kislevs roster in my opinion. Because otherwise they won't have any.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877
    edited July 2018

    What I'm saying here is that do not get hung up on when or if that Lord is toasted evenly on both sides. Kislev isn't super deep for character options. Boris is dead. Miska and Shoika both long dead. Katarina is the only LL that still breathes air and not dirt in the Kislev Lord list.

    But having said that it's ok to bring up dead characters into Kislevs roster in my opinion. Because otherwise they won't have any.

    CA is working alongside one of GW's Writers, and it time for CA to make more use out of that partnership, also Total War: Warhammer 2 have a lot of 'Canon Foreigner' type of Characters, and it's much more Lore-Friendly and Logical than to have a Long Dead Characters.
  • YakintonYakinton Registered Users Posts: 284
    No need to reanimate dead LLs like Miska, Katarin's brother, Prince Ivan Radinov Captain of the Gryphon Legion, is one good option, Saltan of Praag, the lord of the named city and Stepan Rasin leader if the Cossacks are two more options
  • NinjipplesNinjipples Registered Users Posts: 695
    Tayvar said:

    Plus Boris rides a bear. If he can do it, goes to follow at least someone else in Kislev followed his example. Also to the guy above arguing how a dead guy would make a lord...Boris is dead. So that leaves us with exactly one possible LL candidate. If Kislev gets a roster, they will have characters who have already died as LL options, or they won't have LL options. Unless they're made up by CA.

    His main mistake was in mentioning Tzar Boris and his daughter as a Tzarina in the same line. Boris died in 2517 IC, Karl Franz Coronation was in 2502 IC, so in fact Boris died sooner in Total War.

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Boris_Bokha
    To be fair Azhag the Slaughterer died in 2515 and Vlad and Isabella died hundreds of years prior to that. Point is that I dont think they care too much about the timelines.
  • LangolierLangolier Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 374
    edited July 2018
    Well it is a sandbox game, so what happens after Karl Franz become emperor is up to anyone really.

    Either make Katarina a princess or Boris abdicate and become a general or something at Kislev borders

    Saltan of Praag sounds interesting Yakinton since we need more starting positions as always :)

    edit: oh apperently he has a named weapon called Black blade and a natural hatred for chaos and is now immune to fear because of what happens to Praag.
    "Furthermore i believe that Carthage must be destroyed" - Cato the Elder
    "Furthermore I also believe that Chaos Dwarfs should have really big hats" - Langolier the middle aged
  • EnforestEnforest Registered Users Posts: 2,123
    Maybe Ulrika as a "good" vampire character promoted to Kislev LL? (even though she has horrible writing)


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 4,879
    Katarin and some Alberic-style named Boyar with a line or two in the current fluff ought to do.

    Maybe have Boris represented by his bear as a RoR, that's said to still be alive and hunting down beasties.

    Think it'd be fun as a "race against time" faction, building up defences and alliances as quickly as possible before Chaos arrives. Give them a snowstorm mechanic like the TK's sands so they can force unfriendly armies to take attrition, and see if they can hold out.
    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • HarkovastHarkovast Registered Users Posts: 1,763
    Two lords would be fine, but if they want to trawl the background for more characters to expand it I would be all for it.
    For The Lady, for Manann, for Bordeleaux!
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877

    Tayvar said:

    Plus Boris rides a bear. If he can do it, goes to follow at least someone else in Kislev followed his example. Also to the guy above arguing how a dead guy would make a lord...Boris is dead. So that leaves us with exactly one possible LL candidate. If Kislev gets a roster, they will have characters who have already died as LL options, or they won't have LL options. Unless they're made up by CA.

    His main mistake was in mentioning Tzar Boris and his daughter as a Tzarina in the same line. Boris died in 2517 IC, Karl Franz Coronation was in 2502 IC, so in fact Boris died sooner in Total War.

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Boris_Bokha
    To be fair Azhag the Slaughterer died in 2515 and Vlad and Isabella died hundreds of years prior to that. Point is that I don't think they care too much about the timelines.
    Vlad and Isabella are Vampires( not Mortals), and they canonlly come back in the End Times. As for Azhag, as I said before, Karl Franz Coronation was in 2502 IC, it was much before Azhag's death. Also we don't really want for CA to stretch those kind of things, as it makes the game too silly. As for Katarina, it's even said that she is very likely a Reincarnation of Khan-Queen Miska, so it's like having Two Khan-Queen Miska in the Campaign, which is super silly. Also what next? Magnus the Pious would come back from the dead too?

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Katarin
  • SegersgiaSegersgia Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 299
    Someone mentioned Ulrika the Vampire as a potential candidate. I don't know how weird this would be, but she could work similarly as a Arkhan styled LL.

    I'm imagining with Kislev they would do a "Alberic". Adding someone who we never or barely knew of, however, with people bringing up certain names, they probably have enough candidates for that not being needed.
  • NinjipplesNinjipples Registered Users Posts: 695
    Tayvar said:

    Tayvar said:

    Plus Boris rides a bear. If he can do it, goes to follow at least someone else in Kislev followed his example. Also to the guy above arguing how a dead guy would make a lord...Boris is dead. So that leaves us with exactly one possible LL candidate. If Kislev gets a roster, they will have characters who have already died as LL options, or they won't have LL options. Unless they're made up by CA.

    His main mistake was in mentioning Tzar Boris and his daughter as a Tzarina in the same line. Boris died in 2517 IC, Karl Franz Coronation was in 2502 IC, so in fact Boris died sooner in Total War.

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Boris_Bokha
    To be fair Azhag the Slaughterer died in 2515 and Vlad and Isabella died hundreds of years prior to that. Point is that I don't think they care too much about the timelines.
    Vlad and Isabella are Vampires( not Mortals), and they canonlly come back in the End Times. As for Azhag, as I said before, Karl Franz Coronation was in 2502 IC, it was much before Azhag's death. Also we don't really want for CA to stretch those kind of things, as it makes the game too silly. As for Katarina, it's even said that she is very likely a Reincarnation of Khan-Queen Miska, so it's like having Two Khan-Queen Miska in the Campaign, which is super silly. Also what next? Magnus the Pious would come back from the dead too?

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Katarin
    Using that logic then either Azhag or Vlad and Isabella shouldn't be in the game as the end times doesn't occur (and therefore Vlad wasn't resurrected) until the mid-late 2520s but Azhag rose to power in 2512 and died in 2515... they can't both be alive at the same time. EXCEPT THEY ARE!!

    Clearly timelines are flexible for CA.

    Same with Grom the Paunch... he happened around 2410. All those people who want him added are out of luck if we follow your rules.
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,667

    Tayvar said:

    Tayvar said:

    Plus Boris rides a bear. If he can do it, goes to follow at least someone else in Kislev followed his example. Also to the guy above arguing how a dead guy would make a lord...Boris is dead. So that leaves us with exactly one possible LL candidate. If Kislev gets a roster, they will have characters who have already died as LL options, or they won't have LL options. Unless they're made up by CA.

    His main mistake was in mentioning Tzar Boris and his daughter as a Tzarina in the same line. Boris died in 2517 IC, Karl Franz Coronation was in 2502 IC, so in fact Boris died sooner in Total War.

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Boris_Bokha
    To be fair Azhag the Slaughterer died in 2515 and Vlad and Isabella died hundreds of years prior to that. Point is that I don't think they care too much about the timelines.
    Vlad and Isabella are Vampires( not Mortals), and they canonlly come back in the End Times. As for Azhag, as I said before, Karl Franz Coronation was in 2502 IC, it was much before Azhag's death. Also we don't really want for CA to stretch those kind of things, as it makes the game too silly. As for Katarina, it's even said that she is very likely a Reincarnation of Khan-Queen Miska, so it's like having Two Khan-Queen Miska in the Campaign, which is super silly. Also what next? Magnus the Pious would come back from the dead too?

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Katarin
    Using that logic then either Azhag or Vlad and Isabella shouldn't be in the game as the end times doesn't occur (and therefore Vlad wasn't resurrected) until the mid-late 2520s but Azhag rose to power in 2512 and died in 2515... they can't both be alive at the same time. EXCEPT THEY ARE!!

    Clearly timelines are flexible for CA.

    Same with Grom the Paunch... he happened around 2410. All those people who want him added are out of luck if we follow your rules.
    Game is when Franz is elected Emperor which is 2502 which means Azhag is alive.

    Vampires have ways back from death what do you think the Black Coach is for?
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 10,877

    Tayvar said:

    Tayvar said:

    Plus Boris rides a bear. If he can do it, goes to follow at least someone else in Kislev followed his example. Also to the guy above arguing how a dead guy would make a lord...Boris is dead. So that leaves us with exactly one possible LL candidate. If Kislev gets a roster, they will have characters who have already died as LL options, or they won't have LL options. Unless they're made up by CA.

    His main mistake was in mentioning Tzar Boris and his daughter as a Tzarina in the same line. Boris died in 2517 IC, Karl Franz Coronation was in 2502 IC, so in fact Boris died sooner in Total War.

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Boris_Bokha
    To be fair Azhag the Slaughterer died in 2515 and Vlad and Isabella died hundreds of years prior to that. Point is that I don't think they care too much about the timelines.
    Vlad and Isabella are Vampires( not Mortals), and they canonlly come back in the End Times. As for Azhag, as I said before, Karl Franz Coronation was in 2502 IC, it was much before Azhag's death. Also we don't really want for CA to stretch those kind of things, as it makes the game too silly. As for Katarina, it's even said that she is very likely a Reincarnation of Khan-Queen Miska, so it's like having Two Khan-Queen Miska in the Campaign, which is super silly. Also what next? Magnus the Pious would come back from the dead too?

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Katarin
    Using that logic then either Azhag or Vlad and Isabella shouldn't be in the game as the end times doesn't occur (and therefore Vlad wasn't resurrected) until the mid-late 2520s but Azhag rose to power in 2512 and died in 2515... they can't both be alive at the same time. EXCEPT THEY ARE!!

    Clearly timelines are flexible for CA.

    Same with Grom the Paunch... he happened around 2410. All those people who want him added are out of luck if we follow your rules.
    I never said that CA was never stretching some things in this game, but CA can only stretch things so far until they tear apart, and adding Long Dead Tzarinas would be very silly on many levels, and I expect more from a Company that have a lot of experience with historical games. Actually Greenskins Biology not work the same as Human Biology, so Grom the Paunch is surely dead only if he had a Violent Death, as Greenskins seems to be Biologically Immortal, unlike Humans. Vlad and Isabella coming back little sooner is not as much of a stretch as a Long Dead Tzarinas.
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Registered Users Posts: 3,367
    edited July 2018
    Miska didn't technically die. Just went missing in the Chaos Wastes. Which is basically a death sentence. And while her still being alive would be an incredibly tough sell, it would not be because of time. After all Chaos Warriors don't age. Time doesn't flow properly in the Chaos Wastes, and it wouldn't be the first time a human cheated time through supernatural means. Look at the Green Knight. Miska also is one of the few options available to Kislev, and she has both notable accomplishments and a legendary weapon, Fearfrost, to her name.

    What's to say CA doesn't get creative and say the Khan-Queen came back in to finish the little prophetic vision she had that started her treck.

    Also props to the guy who mentioned Saltan. That's another solid option with a great start possible in Praag. Black Blade, immune to psychology, hatred for all things Chaos.
  • VladoffVladoff Registered Users Posts: 55
    As someone has already replaced, Katarina is the reincarnation of Miska. This is a quote from the wiki.

    "A great wizard in her own right, her power is said to come from the land of Kislev itself, its icy soul and bleak tundra giving her the command of the elements and the mastery of that form of wizardry known as the Ice Magic. Indeed, some whisper that she is in fact the living reincarnation of the very first Khan-queen, Miska, so complete is her grasp of this dangerous branch of magic. "

    So we do not need another Miska.

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Katarin

    I myself do not know what heroes you can add, but here's a topic in which there are a lot of options for all races listed.
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/187169/possible-future-ll-speculation-list/p1
  • SilferSilfer Registered Users Posts: 417
    Boris and katarin. DONE

    Kislev don't have potential to be a core race or a campaign pack, just accept. In the end kislev is more like a araby faction... a faction that could be brought by GW but since it was a TT game and the books were just to justify the miniatures it never had a real focus. Even if CA force the history to add more LL, they need to BEND (not just create) the history to justify the adition.

    "blablabla your argument is invalid" - jimmy

    I want ICE MAGIC
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 3,443
    edited July 2018
    In the RPG Baba Yaga actually lives in Kislev.

    Deep in the birch forests in the heartland of Kislev lives Baba Yaga, meagre as a skeleton, stronger than iron and more powerful than any other witch. Her crooked hut stands on chicken legs of bronze and the fence around it is built from the bones of humans and beastmen. Skulls perched atop the spikes of this gruesome construction glow with a eerie light when darkness falls.

    Baba Yaga lives a solitary life, caring little for the fate of Tzars or of Kingdoms. However, her power is still tied to the land and when Kislev is threatened, Baba Yaga will rouse and cast great enchantments over her house. The magical construction takes a life of its own and carries its mistress into battle, crushing those who would threaten the power of Baba Yaga.


    So if you wanted a hag LL, there you go. I've also argued Kislev could compliment its human troops with some of the Kislevite spirits mentioned in the RPG, which means that Baba Yaga could serve as a Durthu-esque lord, giving various bonuses and discounts to using spirits in your army.

    Point is, there's stuff to work with there that is at least semi-canon.
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