The Problematic Implementation of TEB

Ephraim_Dalton

So I think TEB is the most likely candidate to be the subject of the upcoming campaign pack.

However, notice the problem, Tilea, Estalia and the Border Princes are not on the Vortex map. There are factions that could inherit their roster and mechanics (New World Colonies, Pirates of Sartosa), but since all newly added factions need to be playable on both campaign maps, the main TEB factions would remain unplayable in ME and you could only play as the aforementioned NWC and Pirates as well plus whatever the 3rd and 4th faction would be. It could be that the main TEB faction get split up and the 3rd and 4th are then moved from their Vortex starting positions to the mainland in ME, but that sounds rather awkward.

So any idea how they'll handle this?

Surge_2

Eww good point. Replace the Bret's in the South Lands?

FinishingLast

Haven't they moved multiple LL's from their Vortex start positions to new ones in ME? No reason they can't do the exact same here. I imagine that the ME start positions will be Tilea, Estalia, Border Princes, and Sartosa. The question is, where will they put them on Vortex? Sartosa and New World Colonies are a given. Maybe they'll just drop Sudenburg as an Empire faction altogether and put one there, but I'd expect they'd want to put one in Naggaroth as well. Or maybe put one in Albion. Who knows. I definitely think they'll then be moved for ME though. Having none of them in TEB would be weird.

Ephraim_Dalton

FinishingLast said:

Haven't they moved multiple LL's from their Vortex start positions to new ones in ME? No reason they can't do the exact same here. I imagine that the ME start positions will be Tilea, Estalia, Border Princes, and Sartosa. The question is, where will they put them on Vortex? Sartosa and New World Colonies are a given. Maybe they'll just drop Sudenburg as an Empire faction altogether and put one there, but I'd expect they'd want to put one in Naggaroth as well. Or maybe put one in Albion. Who knows. I definitely think they'll then be moved for ME though. Having none of them in TEB would be weird.

Having Tilea, Estalia and Border Princes pop up as factions on the Vortex map would just be weird. It would be like Südenburg becoming the Empire.

MadDemiurg

They could:

-Extend the map to the east adding Estalian coast
-Have 2 LL per start position in Vortex
-Move 2 LLs to some alternative positions (Sudenburg would be one)
-Make them a semi horde that can settle so they can start anywhere

Crossil

I think they'll have one as Tilea, similar to Nagarythe in Naggaroth. Estalia doesn't makes sense as playable as it doesn't have a single actual LL and makes sense as Skavenblight's starting enemy. BP shouldn't even exist as they are right now so again no.

Other LLs would probably be leading New World factions.

I still think Araby is next DLC unless no FLC race.

Selakah

They will handle it by making the Campaign Pack TEB + Araby, with two LLs for each.

Two LLs for TEB easily fit in the Vortex, and there's space for two Araby LLs.

FinishingLast

Ephraim_Dalton said:

FinishingLast said:

Haven't they moved multiple LL's from their Vortex start positions to new ones in ME? No reason they can't do the exact same here. I imagine that the ME start positions will be Tilea, Estalia, Border Princes, and Sartosa. The question is, where will they put them on Vortex? Sartosa and New World Colonies are a given. Maybe they'll just drop Sudenburg as an Empire faction altogether and put one there, but I'd expect they'd want to put one in Naggaroth as well. Or maybe put one in Albion. Who knows. I definitely think they'll then be moved for ME though. Having none of them in TEB would be weird.

Having Tilea, Estalia and Border Princes pop up as factions on the Vortex map would just be weird. It would be like Südenburg becoming the Empire.

No, I don't think they would be named that, I merely meant placement. I assume they'll be named after their individual faction "Pirazzo's Last Legion" or whatever and the like. I don't think they'd actually be called TEB just as Kroq-Gar's faction isn't called Kingdom of Beasts.

Nyxilis

Anywhere. They can be anywhere. They are mercenary lords. With the exception of a couple like Borgio most have a lot of travel time. The book has the various lords and named heros in Lustria, Araby, Empire, New World, Elven Islands, and even a story blip of an expedition to the glaciers of northern Naggaroth. Leitpold, is a Border Prince now but is constantly stated out for himself and money. Mydas is a straight up mercenary. Pirazzo and more of them. And Tilea is well known for having a massive trade fleet that travels the world and a love for sending mercenaries out in search of new trade routes, treasure, exotic animals, and power.

So I have no idea why people keep saying the single most malleable faction lorefully can't be across the globe. It would be loreful to have Leitpold the black in the southern Darklands if someone paid him to lead an expedition there. You can make up any number of reasons to have them out and about. Far more loreful than where they dumped Tretch. Pfffffft, even if he livens up the area.

Then yeah, put them where you need them in ME. They're city states, they can fit mulitple and even start with another to beat up on in Tilea. Start Leitpold in one of the BP areas set to eat his rivals in the other. Estalia is admittedly a hard sell, and you can have someone off in the new world.

RikRiorik

Sudenburg, Sartosa, New World Colonies. There’s three starting positions. Can’t think of a fourth.

baronblack

Rogue Armies are there for the deal into the Vortex.

Szemis

It’s a stretch but there are some Albion mercenary units. They could put a lord there.

Surge_2

Yes please. I like the single island settlements.

daelin4

Well Karak Kadrin isn't in Vortex either but they made it anyway.

I do agree though, I'd prefer if they'er going to be adding new factions, it ought to be in both maps. I like Vortex more thanks to the different scale and objectives.

So if CA does the lazy route? Same as Ungrim, as FLC. If they're doing some actual DLC stuff well IMO there's no way they'll do TEB. Might be a bonus on top though.

Ol_Nessie

I know I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but Belisarius style hordes would be an elegant solution imo, at least for the Vortex map.

Selakah said:

They will handle it by making the Campaign Pack TEB + Araby, with two LLs for each.

Two LLs for TEB easily fit in the Vortex, and there's space for two Araby LLs.

That's a massive assumption and would be a huge departure from the current model of campaign packs. I highly doubt we'll see two races in one DLC.

Tayvar

Yes it's fairly odd, but the main Skaven's lair Lore-Wise is also in the Old World.

Nyxilis

Araby mixed with TEB/DoW is a massively ill thought idea. It both reduces the potential money that CA can earn but generally turns off the bulk who want Araby.

I mean, we really like making polls now and can guaruntee if you put it up as Make Dogs of War and Araby one race with each only getting two LL. Or a campaign pack for DoW with 4 LL & Araby a race pack with 2 ll with both having full existing rosters and whatever else CA decides to make it would overwhelmingly be the two separate.

The only folks who kinda like the idea either have low investment in either race or simply want content faster at a sacrifice of quality of rosters and quantity of lords. Which is exactly what would happen.

Tayvar

Surge_2 said:

Eww good point. Replace the Bret's in the South Lands?

It's no good, even Araby don't need to replace all the Bret's there at the start of the Campaign.

Omega_Warrior

We will likely get Dogs of War, not TEB.

It's small distinction, but a necessary one as Dogs of War are mercenaries that can realistically start anywhere. Thus there is no reason not for them to start in places like Naggarond or the Southlands in the vortex, while still being placed in the southern realms in mortal empires

Besides Dogs of War is simply a much more recognizable name then southern realms, there is no way that that won't be their the name of the overall race.

Ephraim_Dalton

daelin4 said:

Well Karak Kadrin isn't in Vortex either but they made it anyway.

I do agree though, I'd prefer if they'er going to be adding new factions, it ought to be in both maps. I like Vortex more thanks to the different scale and objectives.

So if CA does the lazy route? Same as Ungrim, as FLC. If they're doing some actual DLC stuff well IMO there's no way they'll do TEB. Might be a bonus on top though.

Karak Kadrin was FLC. Karak Kadrin isn't on the Vortex map but all WH2 DLC needs to be on both campaign maps.

uriak

I had suggested in the past having 2 LL per faction in the vortex, and mybe split them up again in ME.

Of course this may be complicated due to their engine. The other explanation will be Sartoza, Pizarro's area and 2 other expeditions. Keeping in mind Araby may still be a thing.

doclumbago

There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

Lietpold The Black
Marco Colombo
Lucrezzia Belladonna
Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

CaesarSahlertz

Tilea, Estalia and the Border Princes will never be their own factions... They will AT BEST be represented by Dogs of War armies, of which some of those factions may be moved to start in Tilea and/or the Border Princes for the Mortal Empires campaign.

doclumbago

What difference does the name make.
It's a faction with a starting position and some LL and hopefully some unique mechanic (like a mercenary mechanic)

CaesarSahlertz

doclumbago said:

What difference does the name make.
It's a faction with a starting position and some LL and hopefully some unique mechanic (like a mercenary mechanic)

Apparently the name means a lot if we are to take OP seriously... Since apparently the implementation of these factions is problematic, since these heographical places aren't represented on the Vortex map...

I simply pointed out, that we will never get a playable faction called Tilea, Estalia or Border Princes. Simple as that.

Infinite_Maw

doclumbago said:

There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

Lietpold The Black
Marco Colombo
Lucrezzia Belladonna
Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

To this day I could never understand why people keep suggesting Marco Colombo over and over again, also Borgio is way more likely than Asarnil.

A DoW army is not going to please everyone, there are some elements which are a bit off. I personally really want CA to do the Bugman's rangers treatment, even though a lot of people don't really how Bugman's rangers were interpreted in TW, and allow us to recruit multiple units of the canon human-based regiments of renown.

Ol_Nessie

Infinite_Maw said:

doclumbago said:

There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

Lietpold The Black
Marco Colombo
Lucrezzia Belladonna
Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

To this day I could never understand why people keep suggesting Marco Colombo over and over again, also Borgio is way more likely than Asarnil.

They say it because they can't imagine anyone else taking over the NWC faction. If it's an itch that absolutely has to be scratched, I'd suggest combining the characters of Pirazzo and Colombo; basically give Pirazzo all of Colombo's special gear and attributes but keep his name. But the front runners for me are still Borgio, Lorenzo, Lucretia, and Lietpold.

Combat_Wombat

CaesarSahlertz said:

doclumbago said:

What difference does the name make.
It's a faction with a starting position and some LL and hopefully some unique mechanic (like a mercenary mechanic)

Apparently the name means a lot if we are to take OP seriously... Since apparently the implementation of these factions is problematic, since these heographical places aren't represented on the Vortex map...

I simply pointed out, that we will never get a playable faction called Tilea, Estalia or Border Princes. Simple as that.

Im not so sure about that. Collectively they could be referred to as DoW but as subfactions, each with there own LL, it would work out just fine.

baronblack

ben8vtedu said:

Infinite_Maw said:

doclumbago said:

There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

Lietpold The Black
Marco Colombo
Lucrezzia Belladonna
Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

To this day I could never understand why people keep suggesting Marco Colombo over and over again, also Borgio is way more likely than Asarnil.

They say it because they can't imagine anyone else taking over the NWC faction. If it's an itch that absolutely has to be scratched, I'd suggest combining the characters of Pirazzo and Colombo; basically give Pirazzo all of Colombo's special gear and attributes but keep his name. But the front runners for me are still Borgio, Lorenzo, Lucretia, and Lietpold.

It is mostly because of the flag for Pirazzo and because Pirazzo and Colombo operated in the same area of Lustria with the only difference being the time skip.

Nyxilis

CaesarSahlertz said:

doclumbago said:

What difference does the name make.
It's a faction with a starting position and some LL and hopefully some unique mechanic (like a mercenary mechanic)

Apparently the name means a lot if we are to take OP seriously... Since apparently the implementation of these factions is problematic, since these heographical places aren't represented on the Vortex map...

I simply pointed out, that we will never get a playable faction called Tilea, Estalia or Border Princes. Simple as that.

There is a possibility not in name because Tilea is a pile of city states. So you're not going to get a faction 'beastmen' in name you're going to get a faction named Trantio or after any of the various cities. Same with Border Princes, each got their own happy little name. Or new world colony leaders. Estalia is the only one that might lose out in spirit of existing as any real faction but who knows.

That area of the map has been shifted and improved multiple times and then unlocking them to be empire builders rather does scream. Hey, something is coming here. And it is still entirely loreful. The leaders of these areas routinely pay big bucks to send explorers out with their vast trade fleets to plunder relics, gold, and more.

Shadd

ben8vtedu said:

Infinite_Maw said:

doclumbago said:

There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

Lietpold The Black
Marco Colombo
Lucrezzia Belladonna
Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

To this day I could never understand why people keep suggesting Marco Colombo over and over again, also Borgio is way more likely than Asarnil.

They say it because they can't imagine anyone else taking over the NWC faction. If it's an itch that absolutely has to be scratched, I'd suggest combining the characters of Pirazzo and Colombo; basically give Pirazzo all of Colombo's special gear and attributes but keep his name. But the front runners for me are still Borgio, Lorenzo, Lucretia, and Lietpold.

Isn't Port Reaver(NWC) a minor settlement in Hexoatl's starting province? AKA Mazdamundi early game fodder?

Do any other major factions share the same province at the start?

Vlad and Skarsnik are the only LL that don't start with a capitol settlement I can recall, but even they aren't splitting territory with another LL in the province.