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Proposal/Speculation: Warriors of Chaos will be a headliner race of game 3

WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 2,870
After a great deal of thinking, I've come to the conclusion that the core races of TW:W3 will be Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarfs, Daemons of Chaos and Warriors of Chaos. Yes you read that right, a race we already have.

"But we already have WoC, they can't sell it again!"

Quite right, they can't. That'd be a real foolish and jerk move. They can however, give a discount equal to the the full price of the WoC DLC to purchasers of the game that already own the WoC DLC. Similarly if for some reason, someone does not already have the WoC DLC when they go to buy be 3, they would not receive a discount but would have said DLC given in addition for free. Think of Blood for the Blood God 1 and 2 here.

By using them as a headliner, they have less to work on overall, which means refining and implanting superior mechanics for a lackluster race, and even more exciting: adding the missing half of the WoC roster and more LLs. Skullcrushers, Hellstriders, Chaos Warshrine, Slaughterbrute, Mutalith Vortex Beast, Chaos Ogres; the Lores of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh; and Valkia the Bloody, Vilitch the Curseling and Festus the Leechlord to give us one WoC LL for each god!

This leaves Kislev as a clear option for a race pack, alongside the possibilities of the Hobgoblins and Cathay perhaps. The OK vs CD as a lord pack and a WoC vs DoC lord pack as well.

The reasoning behind this idea? We weren't supposed to get a playable WoC faction with Warhammer 1, they were just going to be the end game boss. But folks demanded them now and they caved, which is why we have them in a very unfinished state. It is extremely likely that game three was meant to be their time to shine, which it still can be given the lack of remaining races to headline with, and this opportunity to do them right.
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Comments

  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainRegistered Users Posts: 3,066
    edited July 2018
    Wyvax said:

    Quite right, they can't. That'd be a real foolish and jerk move. They can however, give a discount equal to the the full price of the WoC DLC to purchasers of the game that already own the WoC DLC.

    or, they just can give it for free to everybody, its the cheapest faction DLC, and by the time of game 3, every player that had a minimum interest in chaos, probably already have it, I mean, i don't think it will sell very much at that point.
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  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 8,097
    corvo said:

    Wyvax said:

    Quite right, they can't. That'd be a real foolish and jerk move. They can however, give a discount equal to the the full price of the WoC DLC to purchasers of the game that already own the WoC DLC.

    or, they just can give it for free to everybody, its the cheapest faction DLC, and by the time of game 3, every player that had a minimum interest in chaos, probably already have it, I mean, i don't think it will sell very much at that point.
    Another possibility would be to make the WoC DLC act like a lordpack for Game 3 - having the WoC DLC might, for instance, unlock Kholek, Sigvald, and the Foundation RoR.
  • HarkovastHarkovast Registered Users Posts: 2,076
    I think making chaos god themed versions of chaos warriors is more likely. Like khorne warriors , nurgle warriors etc.
    Reusing a faction they already did is not going to get people very excited.
    For The Lady, for Manann, for Bordeleaux!
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Registered Users Posts: 4,225
    edited July 2018
    Wyvax said:

    This leaves Kislev as a clear option for a race pack, alongside the possibilities of the Hobgoblins and Cathay perhaps. The OK vs CD as a lord pack and a WoC vs DoC lord pack as well.

    I had a whole thread about this, but another way to skin this cat would be to have Kislev as part of the game 3 release as well as WoC. Not as a preorder bonus like WoC were for game 1 or as a stripped down unplayable like Bretonnia, but as a fully functional playable race integral to the base game. The logic behind this is that CA would then be able to justify the full price tag since they'd still be offering 4 brand new races at launch. It's just that in this scenario, WoC would be getting the LP and FLC support while Kislev would be more or less complete at launch.

    On another note, @Silfer the flag button is not a dislike button. Nothing in the OP violates the forum guidelines.
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  • misunderstoodvampiremisunderstoodvampire Registered Users Posts: 895
    Kislev has to be in at launch or there are no good guys
  • GCRustGCRust Registered Users Posts: 604
    Chaos is in a weird state, and I think it's entirely possible that Warriors of Chaos end up being part of the four TWW3 races, with Kislev, Chaos Dwarfs, and the Ogre Kingdoms being the other three.

    There's every possibility that the WoC "issue" will be handwaved by CA, that the DLC purchased in Warhammer 1 and usable in Warhammer 2 was more of a extended sneak peek rather than full on race. And again being honest, I'd probably not protest that too much. Let's face it, Warriors of Chaos is probably the least played faction in the Mortal Empires campaign right now simply because there's really nothing for them to do but wreck stuff.

    There's something to be said about a WoC reboot not driving interest, and heaven knows plenty would feel slighted and cheated for paying full price for a game with a race they already had, but a massive reworking of the faction and its mechanics (Likely borrowing some of the Norsca mechanics, but unlike Norsca capable of going a full on Chaos Undivided route) would probably justify the decision.

    At the end of the day, we were outted $8 to play a faction five years early.
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Registered Users Posts: 793
    So instead of a new race like we've gotten in every game we would get one that is already mostly complete and have had since release. And you want me to be happy about that?

    Screw that! I'm tired of chaos fans trying to get game 3 to have less content. It's honestly a bit insulting to anyone who isn't a chaos fan.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 2,030

    So instead of a new race like we've gotten in every game we would get one that is already mostly complete and have had since release. And you want me to be happy about that?

    Screw that! I'm tired of chaos fans trying to get game 3 to have less content. It's honestly a bit insulting to anyone who isn't a chaos fan.

    ??

    Thats fine, it can just be the only 3 real races left if you like.

    Daemons, Ogres, and Chaos Dwarves.

    Sounds fine, but I'd rather get something extra, like updated WoC.
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Registered Users Posts: 793
    edited July 2018
    Surge_2 said:

    So instead of a new race like we've gotten in every game we would get one that is already mostly complete and have had since release. And you want me to be happy about that?

    Screw that! I'm tired of chaos fans trying to get game 3 to have less content. It's honestly a bit insulting to anyone who isn't a chaos fan.

    ??

    Thats fine, it can just be the only 3 real races left if you like.

    Daemons, Ogres, and Chaos Dwarves.

    Sounds fine, but I'd rather get something extra, like updated WoC.
    Or we can just have a new forth non-army book race.

    Getting as less then we got for the previous games is hardly "extra"
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,376
    Eh, my money's on Cathay or Kieslev.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 2,030
    Kislev - Minor race, better as FLC/DLC.
    Hobgoblins - Same.

    What else realistically is on the list?

    There are 3 factions left. Thats it. Everything else is a subfaction at best, or is already in game and needs an update.
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Registered Users Posts: 793
    edited July 2018
    Surge_2 said:

    Kislev - Minor race, better as FLC/DLC.
    Hobgoblins - Same.

    What else realistically is on the list?

    There are 3 factions left. Thats it. Everything else is a subfaction at best, or is already in game and needs an update.

    Both Kislev and Cathay could realistically work. It would not be hard to make races out of either of these.

    FLC/DLC won't matter if the base game sucks and doesn't get enough purchases.
  • HamadhunterHamadhunter Registered Users Posts: 864
    I hope for a Full Chaos Game !
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 2,030
    Cathay is not even remotely realistic.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,341
    Steamage said:

    I hope for a Full Chaos Game !

    Honestly, I don't care about Chaos at all, but I hope for this too. Because this means a lot of attention to the chaos factions and then full DLC treatment for Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres and DLC now is where it seems we get the most complete rosters if we use Tomb Kings as an example.
    Later
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Registered Users Posts: 3,262

    So instead of a new race like we've gotten in every game we would get one that is already mostly complete and have had since release. And you want me to be happy about that?

    Screw that! I'm tired of chaos fans trying to get game 3 to have less content. It's honestly a bit insulting to anyone who isn't a chaos fan.

    We aren't "trying to get game 3 to have less content". That isn't possible. CA already has their plans we can't influence them to completely change the lineup of the next game's factions.

    People are just speculating what could happen. Having the 4th race be a completely revamped WoC would make sense actually since they weren't intended to be playable in Game 1 originally which is why they are so bare bones.
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Registered Users Posts: 793
    Surge_2 said:

    Cathay is not even remotely realistic.

    Yes they are. We have descriptions of around 20 units and 2 LLs to create their roster from, and any map of the Darklands and the mountains of mourn can be scaled to fit them in.

    No matter what the plans are for game 3, I suspect they will likely be in eventually as DLC.
  • GCRustGCRust Registered Users Posts: 604
    The Fimir are more likely than Cathay.
  • Horus38Horus38 Registered Users Posts: 929
    Wyvax said:

    After a great deal of thinking, I've come to the conclusion that the core races of TW:W3 will be Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarfs, Daemons of Chaos and Warriors of Chaos. Yes you read that right, a race we already have.

    An interesting speculation to be sure, and they do really have A LOT of potential options to play with, but ultimately I'd disagree with this happening as part of the launch mainly due to their emphasis of breaking new ground for each games (which ultimately can be played/sold as standalone products). Re-inventing/polishing WoC is something a lot of the community would like to see, but is likely to be lower on the priority list then bringing actual new factions which would be more attractive from a marketing stand point. Because they can just copy paste Warriors in at launch as AI fodder it bulks the game out that much more without any work needed.

    I could easily see Daemons (one faction), Chaos Dwarfs, Ogres and something else at launch (Kislev?).

    I could just as easily see Daemons (4 factions) at launch with race packs for Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 2,030

    Surge_2 said:

    Cathay is not even remotely realistic.

    Yes they are. We have descriptions of around 20 units and 2 LLs to create their roster from, and any map of the Darklands and the mountains of mourn can be scaled to fit them in.

    No matter what the plans are for game 3, I suspect they will likely be in eventually as DLC.
    Not really. Look at what was lost in the vortex to mortal empires map translation.

    Cathay is not remotely realistic.

    Daemons
    Ogres
    Chaos Dwarves
    Kislev
    Hobgoblins
    Updated WoC
    Legion of Mono God Chaos
    Vampires Subfaction
    Nagash

    All of those are more possible than Cathay, and it's not close.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,341
    Rust said:

    The Fimir are more likely than Cathay.

    And we already got Fimir in Norsca. So maybe we'll get Cathay in Ogre Kingdoms!


    Please realize this is sarcasm.
    Later
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 3,961
    I think the WoC roster will remain the same. They may add changes to represent chaos undivided but to expect an overhaul via dlc or at launch is unrealistic.

    The original day one factions are what they are and I doubt they receive major changes.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,341

    I think the WoC roster will remain the same. They may add changes to represent chaos undivided but to expect an overhaul via dlc or at launch is unrealistic.

    The original day one factions are what they are and I doubt they receive major changes.

    Well so far Dwarfs and VC have received some minor updates and it's expected Empire and Greenskins will too. No reason to think WoC can't either, but I do agree with you, it's unlikely they'd receive any major changes.
    Later
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Registered Users Posts: 793
    Surge_2 said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Cathay is not even remotely realistic.

    Yes they are. We have descriptions of around 20 units and 2 LLs to create their roster from, and any map of the Darklands and the mountains of mourn can be scaled to fit them in.

    No matter what the plans are for game 3, I suspect they will likely be in eventually as DLC.
    Not really. Look at what was lost in the vortex to mortal empires map translation.

    Cathay is not remotely realistic.

    Daemons
    Ogres
    Chaos Dwarves
    Kislev
    Hobgoblins
    Updated WoC
    Legion of Mono God Chaos
    Vampires Subfaction
    Nagash

    All of those are more possible than Cathay, and it's not close.
    You are so focused on what we lost. But what we gained was an entire ocean, all of Ulthuan, Most of naggarond, the north of the southlands, and a decent chunk of lustria.

    Comparatively getting the darklands, mountains of mourn, and the western edges of cathay and ind don't seem that unlikely.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 2,030
    We will more likely get the Western edge of the Mountains of Mourn, the Darklands, and more North Lands, exactly what is currently not accessible on the Mortal Empires map.

    The other side of the Mountains of Mourn is a crater.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,341
    Yeah early on I might have expected them to go as far as the Great Maw for the Ogre Kingdoms, but now I'm assuming the combined map will just go to the western edge. The Vortex style campaign map of game 3 might go further.
    Later
  • Tempus_fugitTempus_fugit Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,298
    Skim read thread. I suspect that we will get a powered up daemonic droghar for archy, deamons in full swing, maybe/probably by mark/dedication and chaos dwarfs with kadaai destroyers. Get ready to rework your battle strategy.
    So, a revamped warriors of chaos plus much more. Ogres will be fun.
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  • saellsaell Registered Users Posts: 481
    I think chaos will its units get updated at last and with the drop of wh3. Either ca will make subfactions for every god (but that would need to create at least 3 new ll s sigvald is slaanesh and archaon for undivided kholek wouldnt fit for nurgle or tzeentsh and getting the big bird as playble ll is as likely as getting boris) or just give every unit in the roaster an option to buy a blessing of a god (like in the tt) and paint it in the gods color.
  • ZerglesZergles Member Registered Users Posts: 3,014

    Kislev has to be in at launch or there are no good guys

    This.

    BUT, obligatory "there are no good or bad guys in Warhammer." Nurgle is a nicer guy than most "good guy" leaders in Warhammer. Nurgle is technically a good guy in several aspects. Then you have certain Dwarf and High Elf leaders who are genocidal maniacs.
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Registered Users Posts: 1,381
    Surge_2 said:

    Surge_2 said:

    Cathay is not even remotely realistic.

    Yes they are. We have descriptions of around 20 units and 2 LLs to create their roster from, and any map of the Darklands and the mountains of mourn can be scaled to fit them in.

    No matter what the plans are for game 3, I suspect they will likely be in eventually as DLC.
    Not really. Look at what was lost in the vortex to mortal empires map translation.

    Cathay is not remotely realistic.

    Daemons
    Ogres
    Chaos Dwarves
    Kislev
    Hobgoblins
    Updated WoC
    Legion of Mono God Chaos
    Vampires Subfaction
    Nagash

    All of those are more possible than Cathay, and it's not close.
    You don't know what you're talking about if you think the Hobgoblin Khanate is more likely or has more lore and units than Cathay. (And that's coming from someone who'd love to see the Khanate fleshed out.)

    Besides, considering how much land they squeezed into Game 2, there really isn't a reason why Game 3's map couldn't include Cathay or even all of the Far East if CA and GW feel really ambitious.



    The only possible issue with Cathay besides fleshing them out more is Game 3's combined map.
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