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Bug: Exploding Shot doing very little damage

ItharusItharus Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 11,361
So... exploding shot. It's doing PATHETIC damage. Like... bad.

I was testing some artillery on things today and noticed that exploding shot from a ballista was basically just NOT killing the target... even with direct hits.

Then I saw the target was Illyrian Noble Hoplites.

Given that particular unit... I thought it was the armor maybe. So I loaded up a bunch of 50 armor spear brothers or some such from the Suebi.

They didn't get killed very well either.

I did it a bunch of times, and there were times that the accuracy was bad -- but times where they were pretty accurate, too.

So the "bonus v infantry" thing on exploding shot is currently a lie... or maybe even got switched to a negative value? I dunno, but SOMETHING is wrong with it.

Basic rocks devastate. Even flaming rounds do. But the exploding rounds are just... useless atm.

Comments

  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 4,160
    I've noticed that myself. The exploding rounds are wildly inaccurate, and when they do hit the target they don't seem to do much damage to anything, whether it's heavily armored unit or a light one.

    I reckon they could also do with having a "knockdown" effect; when the exploding shot lands in the middle of any enemy formation, it knocks units all over the place and completely disrupts the formation, meaning they have to take a few seconds to reform.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,361
    That was actually a problem in TWWH for a very long time with a number of spells (still is, to a degree) -- things going flying don't die properly and don't take damage while flying. Could be related.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 31,251
    Disagree. When it hits it's actually devastating.

    It just close to never connects.

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,361
    Disagree?

    Did you not see the "I was testing some artillery on things today" line?

    There's nothing to disagree on. There's just something broken.

    Unless there's something broken with the difficulty level (I don't see how?) then the devices are just plain broken.

    I did enough test runs where I was able to discount the inaccurate matches and focus just on the ones that had sufficient direct hits.

    There's no devastation at all. The formation gets knocked around a bit but hardly anyone dies.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 31,251
    I disagree that exploding shot NOW does somehow less damage than before.

    It was always like this, it just didn't have also a 75% chance of missing.

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,361
    Test it yourself then, Ephraim. You can clearly observe when the shots hit, look at the troops remaining, and see that they aren't dying very much.

    I swear you just like to follow me around and be contrary on principle. It's getting old.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 31,251
    edited August 2018
    Itharus said:

    Test it yourself then, Ephraim. You can clearly observe when the shots hit, look at the troops remaining, and see that they aren't dying very much.

    I swear you just like to follow me around and be contrary on principle. It's getting old.

    I guess you must not have played R2 in a while because, yeah, that's how explosive shot was before even Politics and Power. It threw models around a lot, but didn't kill most of the time, just making them weak enough to die quickly once melee ensued.

    It was still useful because...again...ballistas weren't as horribly inaccurate as they are now. Now they're near useless.

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,361
    I wish they'd just take the damned thing out if they aren't going to make it useful.

    Never really liked the concept anyway... thing should be an incendiary that leaves fire on the battlefield, not some black powder satchel.
  • HeinzuHeinzu Registered Users Posts: 927
    Every artillery unit and all ammuntion types need second look.
  • wil07012wil07012 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 75
    I always thought exploding ammunition was dumb in this game so I made a mod to remove it.
  • MigzMigz Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 316
    edited August 2018
    Adding some detail to the discussion by mentioning items from PFM (projectiles table):

    Stone (Default/Large):
    90/105 base damage
    90/105 AP damage
    0/0 Bonus against infantry
    0/0 Bonus against cavalry
    0/0 Bonus against elephants

    Explosive pot artillery (Default/Large):
    10/15 base damage
    10/15 AP damage
    60/80 Bonus against infantry
    60/80 Bonus against cavalry
    60/80 Bonus against elephants

    Explosion Debris (in case it factors into the discussion):
    10 base damage
    10 AP damage
    0 Bonus against infantry
    0 Bonus against cavalry
    0 Bonus against elephants

    Damage against a single soldier by a Stone would be 90 damage while being hit by a default Explosive Pot would be 70. But, explosive pots should be AOE weapons, yes? So, they should damage many soldiers within a unit at once. I'm unsure where to look in the database for explosion radii or their effects... unless it's collision radius. The collision radius for the explosive projectiles is smaller than for the default stones.

    Explosives are incendiary too, so do they burn soldiers over time?

    By contast, explosive ship projectiles are much more powerful than the basic stones, but they don't get bonuses against specific targets.

    Ship Stone (Default/Large):
    90/105 base damage
    90/105 AP damage
    0 Bonus against infantry
    0 Bonus against cavalry
    0 Bonus against elephants

    Explosive pot naval:
    200 base damage
    130 AP damage
    0 Bonus against infantry
    0 Bonus against cavalry
    0 Bonus against elephants
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