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Missiles, artillery shooting at corner of enemy unit

kingofbuuwakingofbuuwa Registered Users Posts: 3
I've had this problem for a long time across multiple total war games ever since we moved from ME2.
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Missile units especially artillery, and in warhammer the flying units, and big shooters like ushbati greatbows, 99% of the time they just target a select few units in the corner of an enemy battalion.
For example, enemy unit of darksharks is standing in a position somewhere in front. You fire a few rounds of cannon fire/ magic missiles at them, then all these shots simply land of the 2 right most column of the enemy, wasting a bunch of shots to kill like 3 or 4 of them.
Quite often if there are one or two stragglers away from the main formation, the missile units will shoot at those instead of the main formation!
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Imagine this, you have your "trusty" missiles, be it a unit of terradon (firebomb), ushbati bows, whatever. You see a unit of 150 skaven runners coming towards you. Instead of firing into the middle of their formation and break them apart, your missiles all aim at that 1 slowpoke rat that is running some few meters away from the rest of the group. You wasted precious ammo and crucial timing and now the enemy is wrecking havoc. JUST WTF! Occasionally, missile units plain refuse to shoot at a blob of enemy just because the one unit that they are targeting has line of sight blocked, all while the main blob of enemy(same battalion of enemy) is just straight ahead!
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I can't believe this issue has not been addressed across so many total war games, we never had this garbage back in Medieval where missiles properly land in the middle of enemy formations!

Comments

  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 2,894
    +1

    It´s SO frustrating to watch your high tier ranged units be borderline useless at times because of this.
  • BaronRodneyBaronRodney Registered Users Posts: 828
    As you say, OP, it's been a problem forever. Presumably there is no simple way of fixing it.

    I wish they would, though.
  • Mac_Mac_MacMac_Mac_Mac Registered Users Posts: 122
    hahahahahaahahhahahahaha I know your pain.

    Playing as Dwarfs my Organ Gun started shooting a unit of Chosen. First volley landed beautifully, almost half of Chosen hit points taken. Next volleys did absolutelly nothing, for the first one had scattered the unit of Chosen, and the shots were landing in a single model(the one with the banner on top).

    I know that the solution for this is not simple or easy and maybe there isn't a solution at all, I'm not concerned about that. It's just that is frustrating sometimes.
  • DavidtheDukeDavidtheDuke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,177
    ideally the shots are always spread uniformly but its' always eitehr in the center or in the side or even just one guy sometimes, and looks strange even
    i6700k @ 4.0 ghz
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  • FrostPawFrostPaw Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,108
    Have you considered it's intentional and not broken? There is manual aim, there are also ranks of experience for the crew. Maybe these exist to create levels of competency vs automation. The general rule is if you do it, you'll get better results but maybe you'd rather do something else. So the task can be done without you, it's just less efficient. Which encourages you to take part or accept others don't always do it how you would want it done.

  • ArizonaBlack1ArizonaBlack1 Registered Users Posts: 263
    FrostPaw said:

    Have you considered it's intentional and not broken? There is manual aim, there are also ranks of experience for the crew. Maybe these exist to create levels of competency vs automation. The general rule is if you do it, you'll get better results but maybe you'd rather do something else. So the task can be done without you, it's just less efficient. Which encourages you to take part or accept others don't always do it how you would want it done.

    Man if that’s intentional that’s a hard rock to throw at CA’s customers. In fact that’s throwing a rock into our face! How on the world are you supposed to manage a battle with magic, flying units, dragons and other insanely powerful monster units while playing around with the manual fire of artillery. Factions like empire or dawi have a lot of arty and the empire can be fairly micro intensive.
  • sccrboi01sccrboi01 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 332
    FrostPaw said:

    Have you considered it's intentional and not broken? There is manual aim, there are also ranks of experience for the crew. Maybe these exist to create levels of competency vs automation. The general rule is if you do it, you'll get better results but maybe you'd rather do something else. So the task can be done without you, it's just less efficient. Which encourages you to take part or accept others don't always do it how you would want it done.

    There is a big difference between "some" of your salvos hitting the edge of a unit compared to "nearly all" being fired and landing in that area. Gunner crews are going to notice their aim is off and adjust. I don't expect the artillery to have sniper like accuracy especially at a distance, but they should definitely readjust even more so if the enemy is stationary, to target the center mass of a unit.
    Most peoples' response to Rome II expansion...."Please Sir may I have some more"......

    My Massagetae, battered and bloody, but undefeated in the field! True masters of battle :)! Masters of campaigning on the other hand, unfortunately not.......:(
  • kingofbuuwakingofbuuwa Registered Users Posts: 3
    Guys I played a few more rounds of total war today, and I can say the effect is very prominent. This time I tested a bunch of skirmish units in field/siege battles and they all have this problem, when they are firing while moving the whole battalion will just aim at 1 single enemy regardless how numerous the enemy unit is, AND they will just target the closest dude.
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    E.g.:
    Skink skirmishers, terradons, wood elves rangers, slingers, pistoliers...etc when they are on the move they will just target that 1 closest guy. So if your units is running directly away from enemy that's fine, the shots will kinda land on the enemies behind the first guy after he became a meatshield. BUT when you are running perpendicularly (which is most of the time, as I do alot of flanking with missile units instead of just having them chill behind my melee units), this is suddenly a HUGE problem, as after the first couple enemy dudes die in the corner the rest of the shots just fly to the ground.
    Seriously HOW HARD IS IT to hit the main blob of enemy?!
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,529
    edited August 2018
    They didn't fix it in;

    Empire: Total War.
    Napoleon: Total War
    Total War: Shogun 2
    Total War: Shogun 2 Fall of the Samurai
    Total War: Rome 2
    Total War: Attila
    Total War: Warhammer
    Total War: Warhammer 2.

    The bug has been around for over 9 years of Total War history.

    Good luck my friend.
    FrostPaw said:

    Have you considered it's intentional and not broken? There is manual aim, there are also ranks of experience for the crew. Maybe these exist to create levels of competency vs automation. The general rule is if you do it, you'll get better results but maybe you'd rather do something else. So the task can be done without you, it's just less efficient. Which encourages you to take part or accept others don't always do it how you would want it done.

    Rubbish. "This bug is a feature!". Don't try to cite some kind of BS realism that CA themselves has never even once alluded to as if it's somehow justified.

    "Reinforcements not coming onto the battlefield from the correct placement is intended because sometimes troop coordination gets mixed up".

    ^An actual argument made on these forums. Reality? Bug.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • FrostPawFrostPaw Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,108

    They didn't fix it in;

    Empire: Total War.
    Napoleon: Total War
    Total War: Shogun 2
    Total War: Shogun 2 Fall of the Samurai
    Total War: Rome 2
    Total War: Attila
    Total War: Warhammer
    Total War: Warhammer 2.

    The bug has been around for over 9 years of Total War history.

    Good luck my friend.

    FrostPaw said:

    Have you considered it's intentional and not broken? There is manual aim, there are also ranks of experience for the crew. Maybe these exist to create levels of competency vs automation. The general rule is if you do it, you'll get better results but maybe you'd rather do something else. So the task can be done without you, it's just less efficient. Which encourages you to take part or accept others don't always do it how you would want it done.

    Rubbish. "This bug is a feature!". Don't try to cite some kind of BS realism that CA themselves has never even once alluded to as if it's somehow justified.
    So they haven't fixed it in all of those games... the company that makes them. If that doesn't clue you in to the concept that its not a bug, after all those years, patches and games. Then I guess it must be a bug....
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Registered Users Posts: 3,641
    I forget where but I distinctly remember seeing a quote or hearing a member of CA's team cite that aiming at the corners of units like that actually increases the damage output. Wish I could find it back...

    Either way I've always been skeptical. How a unit would do more damage this way then center mass is something I'd have to see physically proven.
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,269
    Terradon Riders DO seem to just shoot at the spot where they will do the least possible damage without missing. So frustrating.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 8,742

    I forget where but I distinctly remember seeing a quote or hearing a member of CA's team cite that aiming at the corners of units like that actually increases the damage output. Wish I could find it back...

    Either way I've always been skeptical. How a unit would do more damage this way then center mass is something I'd have to see physically proven.

    I think it was Duck or Ato.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • kingofbuuwakingofbuuwa Registered Users Posts: 3

    Terradon Riders DO seem to just shoot at the spot where they will do the least possible damage without missing. So frustrating.

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    Yep, that's why they are borderline useless, when their bombs could have blasted enemy to crumbs, they just throw the bombs somewhere in front and MAYBE hit like 1 or 2 guys if at all
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    I found that the trick is to aim at another unit that is slightly further away but next to the one you actually want to hit, for example in front of you is a stormvermin, behind that stormvermin is a clanrat. simply aim your terraddons at the clanrats and you will finally hit the stormvermin.
    But good luck hitting anything moving/ not next to another unit.
  • BaronRodneyBaronRodney Registered Users Posts: 828

    I forget where but I distinctly remember seeing a quote or hearing a member of CA's team cite that aiming at the corners of units like that actually increases the damage output. Wish I could find it back...

    Either way I've always been skeptical. How a unit would do more damage this way then center mass is something I'd have to see physically proven.

    I think it was Duck or Ato.
    I remember that too, can't remember where from though.
  • LarboLarbo Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 147
    It was a opposite problem in Arena where shots always hit the center of the front line which became a problem when a friendly player-unit was engaged with target unit.
    They'd always take half the damage.
    So CA have different mechanics to handle projectiles
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