Get some lesson from Paradox

Yekdo21

I love Total War Warhammer. And i am getting disappointed by CA's communication policy with its players. I have been playing paradox games for a long time. And for all their games, almost simultaneously they make weekly dev diaries to keep their players up to date about the upcoming features and also in certain points applying the wishes of their players.

I really dont understand, how it is so difficult for CA to adopt such policy. For months people here yearning for updates, any news. Logging in everyday with hope. Yet, we dont see any news or answer whatsoever.

If anybody in CA reading all these forums. You should take another approach to communicate with your players. It is a shame you dont give any damn for these last couple of months for such a good game that has been made with all your effort and hard-work.

Vanilla_Gorilla

That sounds terrible. I don't want meaningless fluff, if there's news give me news, if not don't. Simple.

LordCommander

Paradox blogs are so numerous because they are a publisher as well as a developer and deal with many games and even their Paradox interactive titles are so riddled with tiny DLC's they need to constantly market them.

So no.

FinishingLast

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

That sounds terrible. I don't want meaningless fluff, if there's news give me news, if not don't. Simple.

Isn't there always news that we aren't given? I mean, assuming that they are actually working on stuff. They could do an update every day and still have something new to say each day. Now, I'm not advocating for that of course, but just saying there is always news that could be given. They could easily do it once a week though I'd be happier with once a month.

Meaningless fluff is going for months and then hearing "We're working on it." Even if they want to keep as much under wraps they could talk about bug fixes that they are working on and when we can expect those fixes or even timetables for when DLC will be revealed. That would not be difficult, or "fluff".

Yekdo21

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

That sounds terrible. I don't want meaningless fluff, if there's news give me news, if not don't. Simple.

What exactly is meaningless fluff in those dev diaries?

LordCommander said:

Paradox blogs are so numerous because they are a publisher as well as a developer and deal with many games and even their Paradox interactive titles are so riddled with tiny DLC's they need to constantly market them.

So no.

Dev diaries is not purely marketing, They even do it for free updates.

My point is. I want some updates. And they should keep in touch with their players more.

vintagepurple

Paradox kinda sucks now.

Also as the publisher of their own games they have far more freedom to release news than CA does, as they need SEGA approval.

Whatever CA does, never ever adopt the paradox DLC model for god's sake.

davedave1124

The lesson I get from Paradox is don't take the **** with DLC..

Crossil

The pipe is already leaky as hell and you think we need an actual faucet?

Goatforce

Say what you want about Paradox's DLC policy, but with Stellaris at least the free patches have been second to none, the free updates alone have made it a completely different game to what came at launch, in my opinion anyway

Walrus

I dont think they need to take inspiration in Paradox, but some news about the Warhammer 2 game would be a good start...

MarcusLivius

Goatforce said:

Say what you want about Paradox's DLC policy, but with Stellaris at least the free patches have been second to none, the free updates alone have made it a completely different game to what came at launch, in my opinion anyway

I mean come on. None of the Steallaris updates have included any units. We all know that is what makes a successful DLC. Updated content and mechanics is stupid!

Warlocke

Yekdo21 said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

That sounds terrible. I don't want meaningless fluff, if there's news give me news, if not don't. Simple.

What exactly is meaningless fluff in those dev diaries?

LordCommander said:

Paradox blogs are so numerous because they are a publisher as well as a developer and deal with many games and even their Paradox interactive titles are so riddled with tiny DLC's they need to constantly market them.

So no.

Dev diaries is not purely marketing, They even do it for free updates.

My point is. I want some updates. And they should keep in touch with their players more.

FLC is in itself a marketing strategy. Companies don’t update games for free without expecting to gain something for their work.

daelin4

I prefer if CA just shut up and do their work. Anyone writing a blog every week would likely not even be in the know about the work being done anyways.
If you want someone working to speak, then you're just making them work less just to write something.

Want an update? Here's one; THEY'RE WORKING ON IT.

FinishingLast

daelin4 said:

I prefer if CA just shut up and do their work. Anyone writing a blog every week would likely not even be in the know about the work being done anyways.
If you want someone working to speak, then you're just making them work less just to write something.

Want an update? Here's one; THEY'RE WORKING ON IT.

Anyone writing the blog would be from marketing so the devs wouldn’t stop working to do that. That’s pretty much how marketing works.

daelin4

Yes, thanks for repeating what I said.

KronusX

daelin4 said:

I prefer if CA just shut up and do their work. Anyone writing a blog every week would likely not even be in the know about the work being done anyways.
If you want someone working to speak, then you're just making them work less just to write something.

Want an update? Here's one; THEY'RE WORKING ON IT.

Working on what? We do not even know what the new race is lol, if anything that's also a good way to hide things, but not revealing a single thing.

daelin4

If they are not cleared to spill the beans, it's no surprise they're not going to say anything.

Like sI aid, that only leaves a weekly blog that says nothing but "We're working on it". CA just figured they won't bother.

Michael4537

I'm not entirely sure that they can do anything besides, "We are still working on the same stuff we told you about last time" without clearance from Sega. That would put a big stick in the wheel.

Madae

vintagepurple said:

Whatever CA does, never ever adopt the paradox DLC model for god's sake.

I always find these comments hilarious. The reason there is so much DLC for Paradox games is because they typically try to expand the life of their game well past its release date by releasing new content to keep it interesting, whereas most games these days are released, get a DLC pass a few times, and then get dropped for the next big thing. When is the last time you saw a DLC for Shogun 2? Oh, right.....

FYI, Shogun 2 and Crusader Kings 2 were released about a year apart, and CK2 is still one of their most played games, which I'm sure has nothing to do with the constant updates and content (snarky smiley face)...

And if it just so happens to be about that oh so lame excuse "they nickle and dime you!", then I have news for you, buddy; they work for a living, and if you want them to keep making content, they need to be paid for it. It's a business, not a charity. Forego that next cheeseburger and eat some ramen, there's your money.

Additionally, Paradox has sales for their games with ALL of their DLC for a well below reasonable price often enough to make these comments stink of entitlement.

Commissar_G

We get a patch every 4 months. What would be the point in weekly updates?

Vanilla_Gorilla

FinishingLast said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

That sounds terrible. I don't want meaningless fluff, if there's news give me news, if not don't. Simple.

Isn't there always news that we aren't given? I mean, assuming that they are actually working on stuff. They could do an update every day and still have something new to say each day. Now, I'm not advocating for that of course, but just saying there is always news that could be given. They could easily do it once a week though I'd be happier with once a month.

Meaningless fluff is going for months and then hearing "We're working on it." Even if they want to keep as much under wraps they could talk about bug fixes that they are working on and when we can expect those fixes or even timetables for when DLC will be revealed. That would not be difficult, or "fluff".

You're confusing more information for more updates. Just because they give more updates does not mean we get more information.

Even if we did get more information this is a 4+ month DLC, how much can they put in 1 week? Pathetically little. It's an entirely different context to paradox.

Besides if they were going to ape another developer they should pick a good one, not a mediocre one.

FinishingLast

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

FinishingLast said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

That sounds terrible. I don't want meaningless fluff, if there's news give me news, if not don't. Simple.

Isn't there always news that we aren't given? I mean, assuming that they are actually working on stuff. They could do an update every day and still have something new to say each day. Now, I'm not advocating for that of course, but just saying there is always news that could be given. They could easily do it once a week though I'd be happier with once a month.

Meaningless fluff is going for months and then hearing "We're working on it." Even if they want to keep as much under wraps they could talk about bug fixes that they are working on and when we can expect those fixes or even timetables for when DLC will be revealed. That would not be difficult, or "fluff".

You're confusing more information for more updates. Just because they give more updates does not mean we get more information.

Even if we did get more information this is a 4+ month DLC, how much can they put in 1 week? Pathetically little. It's an entirely different context to paradox.

Besides if they were going to ape another developer they should pick a good one, not a mediocre one.

One would assume updates contain information. Otherwise it isn’t actually an update if it doesn’t update you. I didn’t think I had to specify that. And as I said, I would prefer them monthly, not weekly.

Vanilla_Gorilla

FinishingLast said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

FinishingLast said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

That sounds terrible. I don't want meaningless fluff, if there's news give me news, if not don't. Simple.

Isn't there always news that we aren't given? I mean, assuming that they are actually working on stuff. They could do an update every day and still have something new to say each day. Now, I'm not advocating for that of course, but just saying there is always news that could be given. They could easily do it once a week though I'd be happier with once a month.

Meaningless fluff is going for months and then hearing "We're working on it." Even if they want to keep as much under wraps they could talk about bug fixes that they are working on and when we can expect those fixes or even timetables for when DLC will be revealed. That would not be difficult, or "fluff".

You're confusing more information for more updates. Just because they give more updates does not mean we get more information.

Even if we did get more information this is a 4+ month DLC, how much can they put in 1 week? Pathetically little. It's an entirely different context to paradox.

Besides if they were going to ape another developer they should pick a good one, not a mediocre one.

One would assume updates contain information. Otherwise it isn’t actually an update if it doesn’t update you. I didn’t think I had to specify that. And as I said, I would prefer them monthly, not weekly.

As I said more updates =/= more information. The two are different. As I said the last thing I want is repetitive updates weekly, monthly, daily. I want updates when there's information of note.

SiWI

I remember people complaining about the "what the devs are doing updates" because neither the Wh3 or DLC team had much to report.

Ephraim_Dalton

Goatforce said:

Say what you want about Paradox's DLC policy, but with Stellaris at least the free patches have been second to none, the free updates alone have made it a completely different game to what came at launch, in my opinion anyway

I admit, Stellaris is now a different sort of garbage than it was at launch.

Enforest

SiWI said:

I remember people complaining about the "what the devs are doing updates" because neither the Wh3 or DLC team had much to report.

I remember certain forum users constantly complaining about complaining instead of providing actual feedback.

Vanilla_Gorilla

Enforest said:

SiWI said:

I remember people complaining about the "what the devs are doing updates" because neither the Wh3 or DLC team had much to report.

I remember certain forum users constantly complaining about complaining instead of providing actual feedback.

And I remember certain forum users complaining about others complaining about others complaining instead of providing actual feedback.

The base point is a good one. Updates without new noteworthy information are pointless. Giving us trivia doesn't fix the problem that is slow content.

Enforest

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

Enforest said:

SiWI said:

I remember people complaining about the "what the devs are doing updates" because neither the Wh3 or DLC team had much to report.

I remember certain forum users constantly complaining about complaining instead of providing actual feedback.

And I remember certain forum users complaining about others complaining about others complaining instead of providing actual feedback.

The base point is a good one. Updates without new noteworthy information are pointless. Giving us trivia doesn't fix the problem that is slow content.

That's why people are asking to change their communication policy to be a more community-friendly one.

Paradox is a prime example of how community managers or even devs themselves can share information on upcoming updates and participate in discussions without being chained by NDA to the point of announcing the pack a few weeks before it's launch: check this out, for example https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/age-of-wonders-planetfall.1009/

Is it really that hard to use your head first without jumping to blaming community for everything instead?

Vanilla_Gorilla

Enforest said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

Enforest said:

SiWI said:

I remember people complaining about the "what the devs are doing updates" because neither the Wh3 or DLC team had much to report.

I remember certain forum users constantly complaining about complaining instead of providing actual feedback.

And I remember certain forum users complaining about others complaining about others complaining instead of providing actual feedback.

The base point is a good one. Updates without new noteworthy information are pointless. Giving us trivia doesn't fix the problem that is slow content.

That's why people are asking to change their communication policy to be a more community-friendly one.

Paradox is a prime example of how community managers or even devs themselves can share information on upcoming updates and participate in discussions without being chained by NDA to the point of announcing the pack a few weeks before it's launch: check this out, for example https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/age-of-wonders-planetfall.1009/

Paradox are a publisher and a producer. They also fill their own games with small DLC. We have 4 months between DLC, in this context their model doesn't work. Besides if CA are going to ape anyone it should be a good company, not a mediocre one.

Sure, we can ask for more information, but it simply can't be like Paradox while still being good. Context is -like my little brother- king.

Tibi088

... I would even welcome updates without content at this point. We again have no news, nothing for months. And if they havent done enough in a month to make an update with content thats just sad.

Anyway Paradox is completly different in their approach to its player base, and whatever else you may say about them, the oppenes and aveilability they show, that they always inform them, is a practice I appreciate very much. Especially compared to CA who are all about - mostly pointless - secrecy. There never could be a Queen and Crone like story with Paradox, where I buy the DLC but they only add and - whats even more absurd - reveal part of the content I paid for much after the release/my purchase.

I love the games that CA makes but community managment is not their forte - and as thats something that Paradox does really well I think that in that regard they could learn from Paradox.

Enforest

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

We have 4 months between DLC, in this context their model doesn't work.

Of course it doesn't with the absurd secrecy around CA projects. We've got info on the Q&C from a chinese digital goods website two weeks before the release. It almost felt like CA intentionally tried to kill any hype around it and made the marketing as poor as possible. Let's not forget the cringy riddles while we were waiting for the Khardibyss.

There are diffirent way of keeping community informed with the upcoming product: releasing concept art and renders of the units, doing sneak peaks on unique campaign mechanics and LLs, etc. Stuff like that isn't made in days anyway, so what's the hold up?

Many companies, Paradox and developers under them in particular, practice this kind of community interactions and nobody has any problems with this what so ever.

edit: it's actually not just up to Paradox. Amplitude studios, who are also under SEGA just like CA themselves, are also very open and constantly provide various pre-views of the upcoming content and even have communty polls to shape it (don't really think we need it for TWW though). Just pointing it out to cease the "it's not CA, it's evil SEGA preventing them to announce their products earlier!!!"