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Get some lesson from Paradox

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  • daelin4#9896daelin4#9896 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,521
    edited September 2018
    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    You'e going to have to say what these companies are and which games you're on about. Then you're going to have to make a convincing argument that these are worthy comparing to CA, and the effort to fix these bugs make such a difference.
    If it's something like a much simper Tetris game well that's hardly a fair comparison is it?
    Nyxilis said:


    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    This brings up another problem: if CA people just start saying whatever to get us off their backs, they're bound to say something misinterpreted and create a PR problem over a misunderstanding. It's more understandable they just keep their mouth shut and do their work.
    If they say "yes we're definitely fixing X and Y" then it creates two responses: the "why aren't you fixing Z" and "when is X and Y going to be fixed?"
    They'll be forced to continue drip feeding non-answers or dig themselves a hole with trying to come up with answers, until they give up and go silent, or mess up and produce an unacceptable answer to the rage of the community. No one wants to be the next EA community response guy.
    Nyxilis said:


    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    No one's denying that.
    Another point I'd add is that such pressure to publicize progress would result in two things: what I call the Communist Update, in which they lie about progress just to please higher ups, or risk producing MORE brand fatigue with irrelevant information.
    The first may already be occurring since the high ups are not us anyways. The second is where they'r e smiling and say "oh this game's great, the amount of support put into it is a lot!" and all sorts of vague non-answers that just turn people off and away from interest into the game. Remember that people want more information or progress reports, but so far no one's said "if they give be an answer I really dislike I'll still support them". Why give information that would make you look bad?

    Even the Norsca debacle didn't garner much sympathy, which might have influenced their (un)willingness to be transparent. If parents constantly yell at their kids for giving them bad news, it's no surprise they learn to just shut their trap and not report anything. That's the reason why in my family we don't report bad incidents- Daddy will yell, scream and beat us if we tell him someone stole his ladder. I mean sure he deserves to know, but those beatings usually hurt a lot, so not worth the effort.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    LoL! Followed the patching history of HoI4? Glaring bugs were reported to them (practically the whole naval game was a mess) and how long did it take for them to actually fix it? O well, they didn't. Presumably the upcoming DLC that focuses on the naval aspect will. Took them only what, two years?

    Yeah, so much for Paradox' superior communication.
  • BreadboxBreadbox Registered Users Posts: 785
    edited September 2018
    Paradox games are mediocre half games on release, half of the mechanics is either broken or the AI couldn’t handle it.
    Espacially considering how little mechanics their games launch with.

    They talk alot, but their progress is as slow as ever, but the talking alot part makes the wait feel quite abit shorter.

    The only thing worth emulating is their willingness to support their game for a very long time.
    Even if it requires continuous paid dlc, I’d rather have 1 expansive, complete games over 2-3 half assed individual entry that backpedals on the progress made in the previous titles like crazy(hello 3K).
  • Yekdo21Yekdo21 Registered Users Posts: 47
    edited September 2018

    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    LoL! Followed the patching history of HoI4? Glaring bugs were reported to them (practically the whole naval game was a mess) and how long did it take for them to actually fix it? O well, they didn't. Presumably the upcoming DLC that focuses on the naval aspect will. Took them only what, two years?

    Yeah, so much for Paradox' superior communication.
    It is still way better than CA!

    Its also worth mentioning that Hearts of Iron has never been Paradox’s flagship.
  • Vanilla_Gorilla#8529Vanilla_Gorilla#8529 Registered Users Posts: 39,759
    Yekdo21 said:

    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    LoL! Followed the patching history of HoI4? Glaring bugs were reported to them (practically the whole naval game was a mess) and how long did it take for them to actually fix it? O well, they didn't. Presumably the upcoming DLC that focuses on the naval aspect will. Took them only what, two years?

    Yeah, so much for Paradox' superior communication.
    It is still way better than CA!

    Its also worth mentioning that Hearts of Iron has never been Paradox’s flagship.
    Haha, no.

    I understand enjoying the communication, but lets not pretend it's anything other than different shades of wallpaper. CA repeating the same thing at us in slightly different ways doesn't fix core issues. Just like Paradox doesn't fix its isdues by yapping on and on, it just makes some folk feel better about it.
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  • daelin4#9896daelin4#9896 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,521
    I don't think folks actually feel better about it.

    Although it depends entirely on what the desired results were. Talk is cheap, so if your desire is just for them to talk, then the truth is that they actually don't really need to. What, you gonna stop pre-ordering the DLC because they won't talk about? Yeah right.

    So it seems CA has already learned something from Paradox.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • Yekdo21Yekdo21 Registered Users Posts: 47

    Yekdo21 said:

    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    LoL! Followed the patching history of HoI4? Glaring bugs were reported to them (practically the whole naval game was a mess) and how long did it take for them to actually fix it? O well, they didn't. Presumably the upcoming DLC that focuses on the naval aspect will. Took them only what, two years?

    Yeah, so much for Paradox' superior communication.
    It is still way better than CA!

    Its also worth mentioning that Hearts of Iron has never been Paradox’s flagship.
    Haha, no.

    I understand enjoying the communication, but lets not pretend it's anything other than different shades of wallpaper. CA repeating the same thing at us in slightly different ways doesn't fix core issues. Just like Paradox doesn't fix its isdues by yapping on and on, it just makes some folk feel better about it.
    You are focusing on dlc policy still. Thats another thing. Paradox communicate with their customers way better. Dev diaries, dev clashes (with the upcoming dlc and update). Of course they are not perfect but what CA do? Old friend, new friend, fill the blood chalice wtf? I dont know why you dont accept this fact. Look at stellaris, Europa universalis, crusader kings. The games may be **** up with too much dlcs. But you feel that those games never left alone. They always let players know whats happening or upcoming. I am not sure if ure playing any of these games, but they fix core issues and rebalance the game all the time (such as swift hotfix after dharma dlc for EU4).
    daelin4 said:

    I don't think folks actually feel better about it.

    Although it depends entirely on what the desired results were. Talk is cheap, so if your desire is just for them to talk, then the truth is that they actually don't really need to. What, you gonna stop pre-ordering the DLC because they won't talk about? Yeah right.

    So it seems CA has already learned something from Paradox.

    If they continue act like this, people will stop pre-order or even purchase. For example, for a year i did not own a pc as I moved to another country. But still i was pre-ordering every Warhammer dlc to support until the Norsca issue. And i don't think i will pre-order the next game. And i am pretty sure i wont purchase 3k soon. ToB is out of question. In the past i would just purchase blindly. I even as a fanboy was trying to defend Rome Total War 2 in its release although it was unplayable at release.
  • daelin4#9896daelin4#9896 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,521
    Yekdo21 said:


    If they continue act like this, people will stop pre-order or even purchase. For example, for a year i did not own a pc as I moved to another country. But still i was pre-ordering every Warhammer dlc to support until the Norsca issue. And i don't think i will pre-order the next game. And i am pretty sure i wont purchase 3k soon. ToB is out of question. In the past i would just purchase blindly. I even as a fanboy was trying to defend Rome Total War 2 in its release although it was unplayable at release.

    So far it seems like not enough people are doing it, or these people are just talking and not doing.

    If your claims are true, then it sounds like you're the reason why CA acts this way: people still pay money, so why spout hot air?
    But that reveals another question: do people buy games on the mere basis that the developers talk a whole lot? And when I say talk, I mean they don't always talk about their products.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,464
    daelin4 said:

    Yekdo21 said:


    If they continue act like this, people will stop pre-order or even purchase. For example, for a year i did not own a pc as I moved to another country. But still i was pre-ordering every Warhammer dlc to support until the Norsca issue. And i don't think i will pre-order the next game. And i am pretty sure i wont purchase 3k soon. ToB is out of question. In the past i would just purchase blindly. I even as a fanboy was trying to defend Rome Total War 2 in its release although it was unplayable at release.

    So far it seems like not enough people are doing it, or these people are just talking and not doing.

    If your claims are true, then it sounds like you're the reason why CA acts this way: people still pay money, so why spout hot air?
    But that reveals another question: do people buy games on the mere basis that the developers talk a whole lot? And when I say talk, I mean they don't always talk about their products.
    To be fair, they are treading on thin waters for their 3rd game. Their second game had less updates than the first one as of right now and not as many FLC as the first one along with longer time between DLCs, so some might have bought 2nd game in hope that development would be same as 1st one, which was not met. Depending on how badly they want WH3 races and what CA decides to do, WH3 might either be successful or it will be another ToB
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,074
    Did ToB not make money? Have any of CA's games truly bombed? Overall I think CA are doing fine.
  • daelin4#9896daelin4#9896 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,521
    That is dependent on perspective. Many players will cite Rome2 as a game that bombed, but as a game it outsold all previous titles, so as far as CA is concerned they were only doing better and better.

    If a game really bombed you wouldn't STILL be making DLC for it, would you?

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,464
    edited September 2018
    daelin4 said:

    That is dependent on perspective. Many players will cite Rome2 as a game that bombed, but as a game it outsold all previous titles, so as far as CA is concerned they were only doing better and better.

    If a game really bombed you wouldn't STILL be making DLC for it, would you?

    https://steamcharts.com/app/712100

    Seems like a flop to me.

    Also Rome 2 at their best versus Warhammer 2

    https://steamcharts.com/app/214950

    https://steamcharts.com/app/594570


    Also warhammer 1 just for the fun still has almost double the amount of players as of right now.

    https://steamcharts.com/app/364360
  • daelin4#9896daelin4#9896 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,521
    Sales mean more than average number of players. What's important if the next DLC is released and those numbers do not change. But then you'd have to prove whether that's because the DLC just sucks, or because it's great but CA never talked about it.

    If I sold a million copies of a game and five years later no one plays it, that doesn't matter if I release another game, and five million copies are sold within the same timeframe...even if no one plays it in another five years. Money talks.

    So since more people have been buying their games, and their communications policy has been flaky at best all that time, what makes them think they need to change that policy? So as far as they are concerned, being silent at times helps, it's certainly better than saying something that can land you in hot water later. It's harder to misinterpret silence.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,464
    daelin4 said:

    Sales mean more than average number of players. What's important if the next DLC is released and those numbers do not change. But then you'd have to prove whether that's because the DLC just sucks, or because it's great but CA never talked about it.

    If I sold a million copies of a game and five years later no one plays it, that doesn't matter if I release another game, and five million copies are sold within the same timeframe...even if no one plays it in another five years. Money talks.

    So since more people have been buying their games, and their communications policy has been flaky at best all that time, what makes them think they need to change that policy? So as far as they are concerned, being silent at times helps, it's certainly better than saying something that can land you in hot water later. It's harder to misinterpret silence.


    Which is why I said that this might change for game 3 since on game 2, it had the expectation of CA providing the same amount of DLCs at the same pace as on game 1.

    On game 3 for instance depending on how they go about it , the game will be made or broken. For instance if they decide to add 4 Chaos factions, I expected another ToB failure. Now granted you might tell me that CA are smarter than that, but after seeing how they left their game that made most of the profit into the dust and jumped the ship fast for 3K, I would not be surprised at this point. We are 4 months in and we do not even have news of what the next DLC is even supposed to be.

    At this point it will take CA more time to release 1 DLC for a puny race than it took to CDProjekt to release their DLC for Witcher 3, which is one of the best DLC I have played in years.
  • davedave1124#4773davedave1124#4773 Senior Member St Helens UKRegistered Users Posts: 22,074
    I don't think those figures mean anything. Consider the budget of WH1, R2 compared to ToB. If you think CA are currently smarting about how well ToB did then I think you're way off the mark. It's a minor release, I'm pretty sure CA new how it was going to sell and not forgetting Medieval 2 is still being sold today so I think they'll do ok.
  • Nyxilis#3646Nyxilis#3646 Registered Users Posts: 7,726

    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    LoL! Followed the patching history of HoI4? Glaring bugs were reported to them (practically the whole naval game was a mess) and how long did it take for them to actually fix it? O well, they didn't. Presumably the upcoming DLC that focuses on the naval aspect will. Took them only what, two years?

    Yeah, so much for Paradox' superior communication.
    Sorry I said Paradox when? Funny, I didn't.

    Or ya know, we can still keep going with the barely anything here only to give explanations well after DLC's are actually made and then on a nonofficial forum they go 'oops, guess we got that wrong but if we'd just talked at some point could have easily realized it' cause that's certainly working like a charm.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,464

    I don't think those figures mean anything. Consider the budget of WH1, R2 compared to ToB. If you think CA are currently smarting about how well ToB did then I think you're way off the mark. It's a minor release, I'm pretty sure CA new how it was going to sell and not forgetting Medieval 2 is still being sold today so I think they'll do ok.

    budget-wise WH2 is suffering because their ToB was a flop and 3K is taking a huge chunk of resources. All projects are mixed together in companies therefore when one suffers, they compensate by trying to make sure their next released project is ''better'', although in this case it seems like most of the WH2 team ran to 3K , 4 months in and we do not even have a single post from CA about what the upcoming race pack even is, let alone release dates.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited September 2018
    Yekdo21 said:

    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    LoL! Followed the patching history of HoI4? Glaring bugs were reported to them (practically the whole naval game was a mess) and how long did it take for them to actually fix it? O well, they didn't. Presumably the upcoming DLC that focuses on the naval aspect will. Took them only what, two years?

    Yeah, so much for Paradox' superior communication.
    It is still way better than CA!

    Its also worth mentioning that Hearts of Iron has never been Paradox’s flagship.
    False. It's one of their flagship titles, on par with EU and CK. Also, what does communication help if they ignore reported bugs anyway?

    @Nyxilis

    Hmmm...what company is this thread about again? How silly of me thinking that on a thread about Paradox you'd actually talk about Paradox...but hey, I think it's actually more likely that you're furiously backpedaling.

    At least stand to your words.
  • Nyxilis#3646Nyxilis#3646 Registered Users Posts: 7,726

    Yekdo21 said:

    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    LoL! Followed the patching history of HoI4? Glaring bugs were reported to them (practically the whole naval game was a mess) and how long did it take for them to actually fix it? O well, they didn't. Presumably the upcoming DLC that focuses on the naval aspect will. Took them only what, two years?

    Yeah, so much for Paradox' superior communication.
    It is still way better than CA!

    Its also worth mentioning that Hearts of Iron has never been Paradox’s flagship.
    False. It's one of their flagship titles, on par with EU and CK. Also, what does communication help if they ignore reported bugs anyway?

    @Nyxilis

    Hmmm...what company is this thread about again? How silly of me thinking that on a thread about Paradox you'd actually talk about Paradox...but hey, I think it's actually more likely that you're furiously backpedaling.

    At least stand to your words.
    Or maybe you fly off the cuff a lot with general negativity and nonsense.

    If you'd paid attention to the thread you would notice it, like every forum topic here, expanded on the topic and companies.

    And if companies are ignoring what is said to them they are still not communicating. Figured that much. E obvious guess not.

    But I can't help but think the community would like more even if they were just talking on processes and in general. It does generate more goodwill from the community even if it's not always effective talk. And yeah, I'd certainly like to know who is next to kick some rumors to the curb even though I know you'll still be raging till the rat pack.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,464

    Yekdo21 said:

    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    LoL! Followed the patching history of HoI4? Glaring bugs were reported to them (practically the whole naval game was a mess) and how long did it take for them to actually fix it? O well, they didn't. Presumably the upcoming DLC that focuses on the naval aspect will. Took them only what, two years?

    Yeah, so much for Paradox' superior communication.
    It is still way better than CA!

    Its also worth mentioning that Hearts of Iron has never been Paradox’s flagship.
    False. It's one of their flagship titles, on par with EU and CK. Also, what does communication help if they ignore reported bugs anyway?

    @Nyxilis

    Hmmm...what company is this thread about again? How silly of me thinking that on a thread about Paradox you'd actually talk about Paradox...but hey, I think it's actually more likely that you're furiously backpedaling.

    At least stand to your words.
    Yes I am sure CA's policy of NOT communicating at all , leaving loads of bugs in and even ending up with previously patched bugs strategy is working like a charm right now. I am so happy as a costumer to NOT get any information about the upcoming DLC.

    Let us be honest, people might buy the next DLC if it is good or they might hold on depending on how they do it/how it looks, but if they lack information again in regards to the DLC (aka Q&C fiesta), I can see a number of people holding up on pre-orders/buying until the DLC is out and reviewed.
  • Mallow#3813Mallow#3813 Registered Users Posts: 34
    edited September 2018
    Here, we get all the news needed. When a new product gets released, they'll say that.

    Paradox might be funny in many things, but they pester you with "news". I don't really need to see a report of a week when NOTHING happened and they try to make nothing look like a great accomplishment.

    And they made a pre-order DLC for Crusader Kings II, which we wait for since 3 months now. Three complete months. And as much as they stream and pour out Dev Diaries like madmen, they don't ACTUALLY talk about the game or their progress. I begin to wonder if they are in financial problems or need to hide something.

    CA might be much less a source of small-talk and everything. But WHEN they actually talk to us, then it's always riddled with actual news or hints to some new products.

    If you prefer to just read masses of text that just look like news, then Paradox is your company. :D
  • daelin4#9896daelin4#9896 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,521
    edited September 2018
    KronusX said:


    Yes I am sure CA's policy of NOT communicating at all , leaving loads of bugs in and even ending up with previously patched bugs strategy is working like a charm right now. I am so happy as a costumer to NOT get any information about the upcoming DLC.

    Let us be honest, people might buy the next DLC if it is good or they might hold on depending on how they do it/how it looks, but if they lack information again in regards to the DLC (aka Q&C fiesta), I can see a number of people holding up on pre-orders/buying until the DLC is out and reviewed.

    Seems to work so far. Isn't that what complained about last time before things were released? And then CA announced it and people just sighed relief and bought the DLC?

    Because if that was what happened, CA figured they don't need to string us along with information, if they can get the same result without doing that.

    I mean, CA only needs to give the necessary information at the necessary time- suddenly announcing it a few days before release, for instance, would immediately entice people to buy, more so than those same people saying "no, that's too late".

    Even I'm not someone that's going to reject buying DLC because news came too late. I judge the DLC on what it actually offers. There is no deadline for that. And since there is no deadline to tell us anything, they will tell us whenever they want to. Which is not for a while.

    Also there are those people on YouTube that would do all the info-mining and advertising for them with previews and reviews. There WILL be people out there that will get that information once it goes out, and ensure a lot of people will obtain it too, since they profit from the system.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 2,464
    daelin4 said:

    KronusX said:


    Yes I am sure CA's policy of NOT communicating at all , leaving loads of bugs in and even ending up with previously patched bugs strategy is working like a charm right now. I am so happy as a costumer to NOT get any information about the upcoming DLC.

    Let us be honest, people might buy the next DLC if it is good or they might hold on depending on how they do it/how it looks, but if they lack information again in regards to the DLC (aka Q&C fiesta), I can see a number of people holding up on pre-orders/buying until the DLC is out and reviewed.

    Seems to work so far. Isn't that what complained about last time before things were released? And then CA announced it and people just sighed relief and bought the DLC?

    Because if that was what happened, CA figured they don't need to string us along with information, if they can get the same result without doing that.

    I mean, CA only needs to give the necessary information at the necessary time- suddenly announcing it a few days before release, for instance, would immediately entice people to buy, more so than those same people saying "no, that's too late".

    Even I'm not someone that's going to reject buying DLC because news came too late. I judge the DLC on what it actually offers. There is no deadline for that. And since there is no deadline to tell us anything, they will tell us whenever they want to. Which is not for a while.

    Also there are those people on YouTube that would do all the info-mining and advertising for them with previews and reviews. There WILL be people out there that will get that information once it goes out, and ensure a lot of people will obtain it too, since they profit from the system.
    In terms of Game 2 it won't hurt them, the real issue will be Game 3. Think about it this way, game 2 was hyped to be amazing, to have an amazing campaign called mortal empire and the assumption of folks were that it would get patched constantly with as many DLCs as possible. This promise was broken. Granted, players will still buy dlc for game 2 since you could use those races in Vortex.

    On the other hand, players might hold on game 3 until everything is released because they know what a shitshow ME was. That is where it will hurt CA.
  • mitthrawnuruodo#4895mitthrawnuruodo#4895 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,976
    Weekly dev diaries is a great idea. This coy "wink wink" nonsense does not help anyone. People over-analyze and end up with bloated expectations, and get inevitably disappointed when they see the eventual release.
  • Xenos777Xenos777 Registered Users Posts: 8,038

    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    LoL! Followed the patching history of HoI4? Glaring bugs were reported to them (practically the whole naval game was a mess) and how long did it take for them to actually fix it? O well, they didn't. Presumably the upcoming DLC that focuses on the naval aspect will. Took them only what, two years?

    Yeah, so much for Paradox' superior communication.
    That's another lesson about not developing multiple titles at once.
  • BreadboxBreadbox Registered Users Posts: 785
    edited October 2018

    Weekly dev diaries is a great idea. This coy "wink wink" nonsense does not help anyone. People over-analyze and end up with bloated expectations, and get inevitably disappointed when they see the eventual release.

    I just don’t get how CA drops info far less frequently yet every info drop manages to be far less informative and reassuring(than Pdx’s weekly drop).

    Pdx weekly: We are making this feature and this is exactly how it works!

    CA bimonthly; Sry, we have nothing to report / Trust me, we are making great progress on the game! / We are thinking about what to to do next!
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    Xenos7 said:

    Nyxilis said:

    There are plenty of companies ies that straight up tell the dlc coming or keep hidden but talk about their game all the time. Those games also end up with a lot more minor bug fixes because they frequently communicate with their gamers. Even if it's not outright saying what's coming.

    They also tend to avoid the whole oops, what do you mean you'd rather have rosters than minicampaigns? Even without saying what's coming they could have still gotten a clue on that.

    Communication here is low, period. And I can't fathom the weird arguement against it here. With other devout fosters a lot of good will and more understanding when things go wrong and better launched products.

    LoL! Followed the patching history of HoI4? Glaring bugs were reported to them (practically the whole naval game was a mess) and how long did it take for them to actually fix it? O well, they didn't. Presumably the upcoming DLC that focuses on the naval aspect will. Took them only what, two years?

    Yeah, so much for Paradox' superior communication.
    That's another lesson about not developing multiple titles at once.
    No, it's a lesson that "communicating with the devs" is only useful if they actually appreciate player input.
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