Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Is cycle charging abusive?

reizennnreizennn Posts: 2Registered Users
It is interesting what you think about cycle charging. Is it viable tactic in MP or not? And if not, in what situations should players avoid it? For example, when a pair of GK cycle charge to death a whole bunch of enemy halberds: is it like it meant ot be or is it abuse of broken mechanic? Or when a griffin lord takes down Grombrindal and some dwarf infantry on 2x his cost? Or when a chariot lord stays 1v1 with enemy foot lord and wins with cycle charge despite he's on 1/3 of his life?

Comments

  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 3,774Registered Users
    reizennn said:

    It is interesting what you think about cycle charging. Is it viable tactic in MP or not? And if not, in what situations should players avoid it? For example, when a pair of GK cycle charge to death a whole bunch of enemy halberds: is it like it meant ot be or is it abuse of broken mechanic? Or when a griffin lord takes down Grombrindal and some dwarf infantry on 2x his cost? Or when a chariot lord stays 1v1 with enemy foot lord and wins with cycle charge despite he's on 1/3 of his life?

    Cycle charging is ok, only flying cycle charging can be abusive, but its generally not frowned upon.
  • Emperor_krkEmperor_krk Posts: 11Registered Users
    reizennn said:

    It is interesting what you think about cycle charging. Is it viable tactic in MP or not? And if not, in what situations should players avoid it? For example, when a pair of GK cycle charge to death a whole bunch of enemy halberds: is it like it meant ot be or is it abuse of broken mechanic? Or when a griffin lord takes down Grombrindal and some dwarf infantry on 2x his cost? Or when a chariot lord stays 1v1 with enemy foot lord and wins with cycle charge despite he's on 1/3 of his life?

    About the last example, ask yourself a question - would an unmounted, very strong and skilled warrior win against a chariot-mounted, wounded, strong and skilled warrior in real life? I find it rather unlikely.

    Cycle charging is annoying and could be somewhat changed (IMO knights shouldn't have it as easy as they currently do to just jump in and out of an infantry formation without taking any casualties; also vigiour reduction on cavalry units should be more noticeable) but I don't think it is abusive.
  • tank3487tank3487 Member Posts: 451Registered Users

    also vigiour reduction on cavalry units should be more noticeable

    No. At least while we have heavy cavalry with Perfect Vigour. GK already extremely strong in cav vs cav battle.
  • SarmatiansSarmatians Posts: 1,864Registered Users
    As a rule, I try to keep at least one unit fighting while cycle charging.

    Let's say I have unit of infantry and 2 units of cav - I will keep my infantry fighting while cavalry charge. If my opponent routs my infantry, I will leave one unit of cavalry in melee and cycle charge with the other... and so on.

    It's a personal rule that I abide by in most occasions.

    But, for most players, cycle charging with cavalry is not the issue, it's cycle charging with powerful single entities that get on people's nerves in most cases...
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Posts: 1,031Registered Users
    edited September 14
    Cycle charging CAN be abusive in some instances (flying goon squads of certain types come to mind, or late game situations where there aren't enough models left to ever have any hope of pinning down the cycle charging unit just because so many models fly so far in Warhammer in comparison to other titles). I do think it's kind of silly that you almost need spells or abilities to effectively "tackle" most units and tie them down, as even braced infantry with deep ranks will get ping-ponged across the map by a charge.

    But in general, I think most of the time, depending on the unit, cycle charging is how the unit is SUPPOSED to be used, and the only way you can get the unit to pay for itself. Pretty much all cavalry, chariots, and a few types of single entity monsters are TERRIBLE in prolonged melee, and so if you don't cycle charge with it, you're essentially suiciding the unit away for free. Genuine melee cavalry is not a thing in this game, it pretty much all functions as shock cav which is disappointing. It would be nice to have more nuance to the various cavalry types. But since we don't, I can understand why people will err on the side of cycle charging instead of committing to an engagement.

    It's similar to kiting. It can be used in a cheesy manner. But doing it in and of itself is not cheesy.

  • ystyst Posts: 2,915Registered Users
    Its pretty much how it is, ppl will abuse it to the max normally, such as a full cav army. Theres a lot of ppl who simply spam full cav army just for that reason alone. Like max out on horse archers, and truckload of cavs.
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
    Unit stats compare courtesy of Seal62 https://total-war-unit-compare.herokuapp.com/
  • hanenhanen Posts: 117Registered Users
    yst said:

    Its pretty much how it is, ppl will abuse it to the max normally, such as a full cav army. Theres a lot of ppl who simply spam full cav army just for that reason alone. Like max out on horse archers, and truckload of cavs.

    There should be a special place in hell for all cav armies. If I dont know its coming and/or I'm playing a inferior faction I lost in the army selection screen. Good times.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 1,238Registered Users
    hanen said:

    yst said:

    Its pretty much how it is, ppl will abuse it to the max normally, such as a full cav army. Theres a lot of ppl who simply spam full cav army just for that reason alone. Like max out on horse archers, and truckload of cavs.

    There should be a special place in hell for all cav armies. If I dont know its coming and/or I'm playing a inferior faction I lost in the army selection screen. Good times.
    Right next to the place for all skirmisher/flier/kroqgar. You know that one well enough eh? :)
  • hanenhanen Posts: 117Registered Users

    hanen said:

    yst said:

    Its pretty much how it is, ppl will abuse it to the max normally, such as a full cav army. Theres a lot of ppl who simply spam full cav army just for that reason alone. Like max out on horse archers, and truckload of cavs.

    There should be a special place in hell for all cav armies. If I dont know its coming and/or I'm playing a inferior faction I lost in the army selection screen. Good times.
    Right next to the place for all skirmisher/flier/kroqgar. You know that one well enough eh? :)
    Well yes I guess. It seems like you are referring to a game between us. I played the "Atei" build maybe twice on ladder (many months ago) and if you were unlucky enough to face me I'm sorry.
  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 1,238Registered Users
    I don't think we played, but I have made a mental note to expect it from you. :-) not sure why, did you feature in a gobbo king vid, or perhaps that was atei. Sorry if I got it wrong.
  • hanenhanen Posts: 117Registered Users
    It was Atei!

    Bless his soul!
  • VikingCatVikingCat Posts: 174Registered Users
    It can be abusive if you don't have anything to tie the cycle charging units down, I suppose.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 15,590Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    No.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • reizennnreizennn Posts: 2Registered Users
    Thanks, guys, for your comments! So, maybe I would avoid cycle charging only with single entity monster, especially flying and especially in late game, when that monster is pretty much all I have. In all other cases cycle charging should be ok.
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 441Registered Users
    edited September 19
    I’ve been accused of cycle charging excessively in the past with Dragons; nowadays I don’t play them nearly as often as before (lost the charme) but apparently a lot of people consider this toxic. Then again, as a HE main I also brought Swordmasters/Dragon Princes to most of those battles for my opponent to Bjuna, took a Bjuna to the face without complaining, but if one tactic is cheese, so is the other.

    So my response would be: try to cycle charge a little but non-excessively in the beginning, if you see that the opponent has no shame in resistance stacking, using doomsquads to land on your spellcasters, spell kiting and other forms of what I call playing tryhard, don’t hesitate to tryhard yourself and return the favor with whichever tools you might need.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file